From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2012 #1159 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe:mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website:http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, August 21 2012 Volume 2012 : Number 1159 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Just like this train [Corey Blake ] Now Song For Sharon was NRH vs TI, and JOTMAS (the gift went on) ["Mark" ] [Stewart.Simon@sunlife] Grammy GPS - NJC ["Cassy" ] Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog (NJC now) [Lori Fye ] White Banners - Hana's Wise Words [simon@icu.com] Vinyl vs CD, Subject: Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog, njc now ["Jim L'Hommedieu] Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog (NJC now) [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Judgment of the Moon and Stars [Kevin Foehr ] Re: that great interview on the French YouTube [Shari Eaton ] Graham Nash - Another Sleep Song [simon@icu.com] Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog [Lori Fye ] Re: Just like this train [Bob Muller ] Re: Just like this train [Shari Eaton ] Graham Nash - Songs About Joni [simon@icu.com] Re: White Banners - Hana's Wise Words [Shari Eaton ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:10:09 -0700 From: Corey Blake Subject: Re: Just like this train Yes because that's how hackers work. By tricking people into thinking they're downloading Joni Mitchell songs. The Northeast blackout in 2003 was caused by a supposed alternate recording of "For Free". Crafty geniuses! On Aug 20, 2012, at 6:31 PM, Bob Muller wrote: > I smell a rat. I wouldn't touch that download with a 10-foot pole. > > Bob > ________________________________ > From: Karen Holtz > To: > joni@smoe.org > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 7:07 PM > Subject: Just like this > train > > Hey guys! Please, I need a help! > I've got a version of Just Like This > Train song in my computer, sung by > Joni Mitchell, but this version is > different than that ones that can be > find at Court and Spark and Travelogue > albums. Do you know know where is > this record from? > I've posted it on my > 4shared page. Can you listen to it and help me please? > Here is the link: > http://www.4shared.com/mp3/ksDhlChP/Just_like_this_train.html > > Thank you! > Karen Holtz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:50:42 -0400 From: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Subject: Now Song For Sharon was NRH vs TI, and JOTMAS (the gift went on) ["Mark" ] Mark, A few quick comments regarding your post on Song For Sharon.... 1.It Is very impressive that you can recall the lyrics to this entire song from memory - its a tough song to memorize. There are only a handful of songs I can recite from memory (Woodstock, Circle Game, Both Sides Now, Blue and LTIS Richard might be the only 5 off the top of my head) 2 Regarding the song - its ironic that as kids, Mitchell was the one that longed for married life on a farm and Sharon Bell was the one who had dreams for success as a singer. When things turned out precisely in reverse, its been reported that Bell resented Joni's fame while Joni envied Sharon's close family life. The two women had'nt been in touch since they were teens, but after the song came out, Bell went to Saskatoon and made a recording of her own songs. I recall Bob Muller had spoken with Sharon directly about this irony and am anxiously awaiting Chapter 2 of this discussion. 3. According to this article (below), Joni states that she is not convinced Hejira is the best of the 22 albums (that made her among the most influential singer-songwriters of the past 40 years). She won't attach that label to any of her albums. But she concedes Hejira is probably her one album that could not have been made by anyone else. "I suppose a lot of people could have written a lot of my other songs, but I feel the songs on Hejira could only have come from me," she said an interview with the Citizen. But Mitchell says self-confession, no matter how risky and revealing, was essential to her writing during that era. "My songs have always been more autobiographical than most people's," she says. "It pushes you toward honesty. I was just returning to normal from the extremities of a very abnormal mindset when I wrote most of the songs (on Hejira). "When life gets interesting I get very alert, and life was very interesting. I think that took the writing to another level." My opinion is that the writing on Hejira is her best and that Song for Sharon is one her most powerful songs. http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1459&from=search Your posts are always very thought provoking and interesting to read Mark.....thanks. Stewart =================================================================================== 2.Finally she briefly sums up their two lives and points out how Sharon expresses her talent, entering a bit into Joni's world and how Joni will occasionally seek out the space and air of the world that Sharon inhabits. Anyway, if you get to this point and you know the last verse is coming, you pretty much have gotten it. First and last verses are usually pretty ingrained if it's a song you love. Sharon you've got a husband And a family and a farm I've got the apple of temptation And a diamond snake around my arm But you still have your music I've still got my eyes on the land and the sky You sing for your friends and your family I'll walk green pastures by and by I don't think I left any of the verses out. Specific words may be altered since sometimes what gets stuck in my head isn't always exactly what is on the record. But that was all typed from memory. Most of Joni's lyrics are very logical and straightforward. Mark in Seattle - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:06:03 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Grammy GPS - NJC For those of you near or in the Atlanta area: http://www.grammy365.com/events/atlanta-grammy-gps-road-map-todays-music-pro RSVP by Sept. 5 via email atlanta@grammy.com On Saturday, September 8, 2012, The Recording Academy Atlanta Chapter will host GRAMMY GPS: A Road Map for Today's Music Pro which will focus on providing information to independent artists, producers, labels and managers who have begun working in the music industry but need the tools to succeed. The day will feature educational panels and a closing event featuring The Beatles' engineer, Geoff Emerick. Panelists will include GRAMMY- winning producers, engineers, artists, songwriters, and music industry executives. GRAMMY GPS: A Road Map for Todaybs Music Pro is a GRAMMY Professional Development mini-conference. Complimentary admission & lunch will be extended to current Recording Academy members. Non-members must join or pay $100 to attend the event. Confirmed Panelists include: Charlie Brusco (Red Light Mgt.), Bryan Michael Cox (Mary J. Blige, Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson), Jennifer Drake (ASCAP), Scott Goldman(VP, GRAMMY Foundations), Omara Harris (Omara S. Harris, Esq.), Dr. Michael Johns (Emory Voice Center), Steve Jones (Brash Music), Ledisi (Verve Records), Rich Levy(Live Nation), Steve Lillywhite(Dave Matthews Band, The Rolling Stones, U2), Margaret Marshall (Greenberg Traurig), Ne-Yo (Motown Records), Brendan O'Brien (Bruce Springsteen, Mastadon, Train), Kawan " KP" Prather (Atlantic Records), Callie Riggs (Red Light Mgt.), Bobby Rosenbloum (Greenberg Traurig), Jan Smith (Jan Smith Studios), Justin "Just Blaze" Smith( Drake, Eminem, Jay Z), Shani Sammons (Shani Sammons Marketing Group), Butch Walker (Pink, Katy Perry, Train). More panelists to be announced later. Location W Atlanta Buckhead Hotel 3377 Peachtree Road Ballroom Atlanta, GA 30326 United States See map: Google Maps September 8, 2012 - 10:00am - 6:00pm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 00:17:48 +0200 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog (NJC now) > You're referring to a "Discwasher"... Yep, THAT's the thing I was trying to remember! I am just a sort of philistine in some ways, I guess. I'm still a fan of vinyl, and I miss mine! I do not, however, wish to return to the days of kick starting a motorcycle. :-) Lori in Dotzheim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:51:31 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: White Banners - Hana's Wise Words c Karma wrote: > The film that inspired "Hana" was "White Banners" from 1938 via Warner Brothers. > My research last year found it has not been broadcast in years due to rights issues. > I posted a link to a complete on line video but sadly it was removed a couple of months later. > There may be some poetic justice in that as much of the film involves the creation and theft > of intellectual property. It seemed quite Joni connected on many levels including the back > story of the reunion of a mother with a child given up for adoption as an infant. > > CC A short video 9-min. excerpt from the movie "White Banners" is still available on YouTube at the following URL: Hannah's Wise Words (from White Banners - 1938) As for the complete movie, I downloaded a copy when it was available. A short while ago, I UpLoaded it via YouSendIt. You can download a copy at the following URL: White Banners (1938) Here are Joni's comments ... RE: "Hana" "I wish I could remember the name of this great old movie from the '30s that I based this song on. The story is about a woman who literally shows up at a house in the middle of a blizzard. It's set in the Depression and she's selling kitchen utensils door to door. She literally comes in from the cold, sees the dire living situation of this school-teacher husband and his wife and kid, and becomes like an angel to them. She offers to be their maid, make their money stretch and get them back on the right track. Hana is a wily, street-wise, Irish woman who has a generous heart but also a hidden motive for being in this town: to visit her illegitimate son who was adopted by a rich family. I identified with her, but she was way ahead of me. She's exemplary in the way she dealt with life." From: Joni Mitchell Talks About Each Track On New CD, 'Shine' Starpulse.com Sept. 17, 2007 Also in the JM.com Library @ andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simonM http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/complete.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 20:33:42 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Vinyl vs CD, Subject: Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog, njc now One man's "crispness" is another man's 2-dimensional brittleness. Sure, I have CDs too. I like them because I can play them in the car, on the computer, or at work. Some stuff, like Paul McCartney's RAM just sounds best on the record player. Maybe you have to spend a bunch of money to hear the benefit of records. I am comparing my (pretty nice) turntable with my dirt-cheap DVD player so it's not really a fair comparison. Jim L'Hommedieu >Michael Flaherty said in part, >I have admit that the (somewhat exaggerated) vinyl comeback leaves me shaking >my head in confusion. I never thought of surface noise or lack of crispness >in sound as "warm". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:46:15 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog (NJC now) You're referring to a "Discwasher"...and yes we all had them (or a REAL vaccuum record cleaning system) and it was just one more hassle in a long list of them. Other things I don't miss: - -Using an abacus - -Using a slide rule - -Cranking my car up at the front before starting it up :-) Bob From: Lori Fye To: Michael Flaherty Cc: "joni@smoe.org" Date: 08/20/2012 03:34 PM Subject: Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog (NJC now) Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org > It's just such a hassle to flip the damn things and keep them dusted. You know what I miss? The whole ritual of cleaning a vinyl record before play. Cleaning it with that block with the black material on it ... what was that thing called? It had a space for the fluid bottle ... everyone who was halfway serious about taking care of their vinyl had one (probably most of us still have one somewhere). I miss that ritual. Of course, I also miss full-sized cover art and lyrics, too. Lori in Dotzheim - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:04:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Foehr Subject: Judgment of the Moon and Stars Bobsart, You wrote: "However, the closing lines of JOTMAS have always left me feeling uncomfortable. Why? Because I can change the last word of the song to its literal opposite, and still feel it would have poetic (and perhaps ironic) meaning. "Condemned to wires and hammers Strike every chord that you feel That broken trees And elephant ivories conceal" But what if the last word had instead been "reveal" ? This my favorite Joni passage / poetic image, and therefore, not surprisngly, in my opinion, it is perfect. Changing the last word to "reveal' would have lessened its poetic quality a bit in my mind. And I think "conceal" is more ironic than "reveal" would have been. Reveal would have been too linear and expected. It is the end of creative process -- the result -- the revealment of beauty and emotion. And it puts the emphasis on the instrument, not the artist. But conceal is perfect here because it is first in the process, and thus it is not instantly clear what this imagery means. The listener must stop and think, "What is being concealed? And by what?" Then the listener can see the full picture: what is concealed can be revealed by the artist. Conceal implies that here; but reveal would not imply this process as clearly as it jumps directly to the end product. And it highlights WHO can reveal what lies concealed within. Broken trees and elephant ivories conceal the beauty and emotional power that is possible. They are pure potential, like colors on a painter's pallette, and it takes a great master to access that potential and reveal the beauty that is possible. In my mind, moving from concealment to something revealed is a much more poetic image than "seeing" the end of the process (beauty revealed), and then MAYBE thinking about how that beauty was (is) "concealed" to us mere mortals and is "revealed" by musical geniuses like Joni and Beethoven. Kevin F. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:28:59 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: that great interview on the French YouTube You're welcome, Jim. Did you guys see these as well? Interview with Joni talking about her painting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWGXE_ZVHWI&feature=related Dancin' Clown music video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73IvazD2u6c On Aug 20, 2012, at 6:10 PM, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Thanks Shari for posting the link. Thanks Sue for popularizing it. I > enjoyed it. > > Jim L'Hommedieu > > Sue credited >> Shari Eaton found this amazing interview with Joni ... >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjdNrWtCQWk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 20:07:39 -0300 From: Karen Holtz Subject: Just like this train Hey guys! Please, I need a help! I've got a version of Just Like This Train song in my computer, sung by Joni Mitchell, but this version is different than that ones that can be find at Court and Spark and Travelogue albums. Do you know know where is this record from? I've posted it on my 4shared page. Can you listen to it and help me please? Here is the link: http://www.4shared.com/mp3/ksDhlChP/Just_like_this_train.html Thank you! Karen Holtz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:52:00 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Graham Nash - Another Sleep Song Sharon Watkins > Subject: Graham Nash - Another Sleep Song (with Joni Mitchell) live at Wembley 1974 > > Just found this on YouTube. Love the song and Joni's haunting background vocals. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv46ZzoY8LU&feature=youtube_gdata_player Sharon, Joni also sang on Graham's original recording of "Another Sleep Song" included on his 1st album SONGS FOR BEGINNERS. Here's a previously unreleased mix from the Graham Nash REFLECTIONS Retrospective 3 CD Anthology. Another Sleep Song Graham Nash: electric piano, vocals Ben Keith: dobro Joel Bernstein: acoustic guitar Tim Drummond: bass John Barbata: drums Joni Mitchell: additional vocals According to Graham ... I wrote this song in the living room of my friend Barbra Streisand. She had this fabulous house with many, many beautiful objets d'art. I watched her as she ate a TV dinner, and I again realized that fame wasn't all that it's made out to be. At that point in my life I needed to wake up to what was happening to me. Graham's solo Albums contain a number of songs about Joni. THIS isn't one of them. (stay tuned, more later) andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simonM http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/complete.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:09:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog NJC Friday evening the neighborhood had gathered outside for happy hour, I had my Kindle Fire hooked into a portable Bose Bluetooth speaker and I was taking requests and spinning them off of Rhapsody. I love the convenience and don't miss vinyl records one bit. As for Itunes, they didn't really initiate leading folks to digital (credit Napster & Kazaa & Limewire for that), they just created a model to make it legal and profitable. Using Rhapsody as opposed to a record store actually makes it EASIER for me to discover new music. In the old days I'd have to buy the album (either on vinyl or CD) in order to hear it. Now, I can stream pretty much anything and decide if I want to add it to a playlist or not. The genomes used by the software programs allow them to point me in the direction of artists that are similar to ones I like but may be flying under my radar. Bob From: Shari Eaton To: Michael Flaherty Cc: Lori Fye , "joni@smoe.org" Date: 08/20/2012 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org I agree. Vinyl surface noise and the pops make for an incredibly warm play. It's just such a hassle to flip the damn things and keep them dusted. I kind of resent iTunes for destroying the culture around records or even CDs for that matter but digital is just so convenient. It has put me off discovering new music for awhile. Lots of Joni, Shari - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 21:28:00 +0200 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Subject: Dog Eat Dog > I never thought of surface noise or lack of crispness in sound as "warm". Despite the surface noise, to me there is a warmth and depth present in vinyl that simply is lacking in the digital formats I've heard thus far. I've never had a particular stellar stereo system, and my turntable and CD player were connected to the same amplifier. But, for my listening "dime," I was more thrilled by the sound when I went back and played vinyl that I also had on CD. Other than the terms "warmth" and "depth," I don't know how else to explain it. For me, the sound produced by DCs (and now the mp3 and similar formats) is lacking that warmth and depth. Then again, like I said, I haven't listened to many "remastered" CDs yet. Anyone else have this experience? (Em?) Lori in Dotzheim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 18:31:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Just like this train I smell a rat. I wouldn't touch that download with a 10-foot pole. Bob ________________________________ From: Karen Holtz To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 7:07 PM Subject: Just like this train Hey guys! Please, I need a help! I've got a version of Just Like This Train song in my computer, sung by Joni Mitchell, but this version is different than that ones that can be find at Court and Spark and Travelogue albums. Do you know know where is this record from? I've posted it on my 4shared page. Can you listen to it and help me please? Here is the link: http://www.4shared.com/mp3/ksDhlChP/Just_like_this_train.html Thank you! Karen Holtz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:11:22 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: Just like this train Good catch, Bob. Most dubious looking. On Aug 20, 2012, at 6:31 PM, Bob Muller wrote: > I smell a rat. I wouldn't touch that download with a 10-foot pole. > > Bob > ________________________________ > From: Karen Holtz > To: > joni@smoe.org > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 7:07 PM > Subject: Just like this > train > > Hey guys! Please, I need a help! > I've got a version of Just Like This > Train song in my computer, sung by > Joni Mitchell, but this version is > different than that ones that can be > find at Court and Spark and Travelogue > albums. Do you know know where is > this record from? > I've posted it on my > 4shared page. Can you listen to it and help me please? > Here is the link: > http://www.4shared.com/mp3/ksDhlChP/Just_like_this_train.html > > Thank you! > Karen Holtz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 18:23:24 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Graham Nash - Songs About Joni Previously, in reference to "Another Sleep Song, I said > Graham's solo Albums contain a number of songs about Joni. > THIS isn't one of them. (stay tuned, more later) Here's the more later: From: Graham Nash - SONGS FOR BEGINNERS 1. Better Days 2. I Used To Be A King 3. Simple Man From: Graham Nash - WILD TALES 4. You'll Never Be The Same And then there's the song Neil Young wrote about Joni's breakup with Graham. From: Neil Young - AFTER THE GOLDRUSH 5. Only Love Can Break Your Heart However, there ARE other things that can break your heart. andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - simonM http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/complete.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/music/songsaboutjoni.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:36:49 -0700 From: Shari Eaton Subject: Re: White Banners - Hana's Wise Words Thanks Simon. Downloaded and watching tonight! On Aug 20, 2012, at 2:51 PM, simon@icu.com wrote: > c Karma wrote: > >> The film that inspired "Hana" was "White Banners" from 1938 via Warner Brothers. >> My research last year found it has not been broadcast in years due to rights issues. >> I posted a link to a complete on line video but sadly it was removed a couple of months later. >> There may be some poetic justice in that as much of the film involves the creation and theft >> of intellectual property. It seemed quite Joni connected on many levels including the back >> story of the reunion of a mother with a child given up for adoption as an infant. >> >> CC > > > A short video 9-min. excerpt from the movie "White Banners" is still available on YouTube at the following URL: > > Hannah's Wise Words (from White Banners - 1938) > > > As for the complete movie, I downloaded a copy when it was available. > > A short while ago, I UpLoaded it via YouSendIt. You can download a copy at the following URL: > > White Banners (1938) > > > Here are Joni's comments ... > > RE: "Hana" > > "I wish I could remember the name of this great old movie from the '30s that I based this song on. > The story is about a woman who literally shows up at a house in the middle of a blizzard. It's set in > the Depression and she's selling kitchen utensils door to door. She literally comes in from the cold, > sees the dire living situation of this school-teacher husband and his wife and kid, and becomes like > an angel to them. She offers to be their maid, make their money stretch and get them back on the > right track. Hana is a wily, street-wise, Irish woman who has a generous heart but also a hidden motive > for being in this town: to visit her illegitimate son who was adopted by a rich family. I identified with > her, but she was way ahead of me. She's exemplary in the way she dealt with life." > > > From: > > Joni Mitchell Talks About Each Track On New CD, 'Shine' > > Starpulse.com > Sept. 17, 2007 > > > > Also in the JM.com Library @ > > > > andmoreagain, > - - - - - - - - - > simonM > > http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/complete.cfm ............................................................................. .............. Shari Eaton visual designer . art director ............................................................................. .............. Shari Eaton Design 415.361.8708 . www.sharieaton.com ............................................................................. .............. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2012 #1159 ****************************** ------- To post messages to the list, sendtojoni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------