From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #492 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Monday, November 14 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 492 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" [gerard mclaughlin ] Peter Herbert [Vincenzo Mancini ] Re: Peter Herbert [Vincenzo Mancini ] Re: The Duchess was cool and laid back njc [T Peckham Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" I'm sitting here laughing like a ...coyote. I don't know if any of you know "The Work" of Byron Katie but she asks four questions and a turnaround. I am sitting with my particular turnaround this morning and it goes like this...How many posts have you ignored, Gerard ? Thousands is the answer. Well, Folks I raised my complaint which I'd been silently nursing for a good wee while and your wise responses have helped me see the truth of the matter. Thanks very much ! I sit laughing but corrected. Life is for learning as some wise woman once said...Faith restored I am glad to be counted among you. On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 11:31 AM, T Peckham wrote: > Hi Gerard, I'm glad several others have spoken up to say that a lot of > things written by a lot of different Listers can go unremarked upon. I > truly think it is mainly just a time problem. And also, at times, a feeling > of being overwhelmed by EVERYTHING there is on the 'Net! I find myself > sticking in the same old ruts, checking the same websites every day, and > just taking time to respond to personal emails. (And I won't even get > started on how much time I spend at Facebook, which I swore I'd never > join!) As Catherine wrote, sometimes you just have the impulse to hit a > "LIKE" button (not unlike going from a stick shift to an automatic--ha ha!) > I know some despise FB, and I don't blame them--I refuse to go by my real > name there out of privacy concerns, and am always on the lookout for a new > alternative. > > I hope you keep posting, and I wish more folks would jump in more often. I > can also say from the experience of belonging to msg. boards that it's > really not that much unlike real life--people come and go, take breaks and > return, or never return. Or find each other again at new places. I know > there's a great Joni quote I should be coming up with here, but I should > have gone to sleep a couple hours ago . . . > > Cheers! > > Terra > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 7:14 AM, gerard mclaughlin > wrote: > > > One of the things I find hard/difficult to appreciate isn't Joni or > > anything she says it is how the fans react to what others say about her. > We > > are probably none of us as articulate as Joni is and even with her power > of > > language she is often misunderstood so it goes without saying really that > > mortals lesser than she in the words department don't get it right and > can > > equally be misunderstood. I count myself among that number. I've been on > > the list here a number of years now. not many but a few and have often > > found my comments ignored. i have as a result tried to disengage from the > > joni community because of this democratic (for want of better words) lack > > but whenever i have tried to it hasn't worked ! reading these comments > has > > stirred this complaint in me. surely like joni, whom we all love, each > of > > us on her list is of value and our opinions, like hers, are of value. > They > > are only opinions after all and are simply contributions to a discussion > > list. Sad if a joni discussion list is a closed book to a few adoring > > people who rub each others backs constantly and dislike the slightest > > whiff.... or touch of a stranger ! even if it sets up a trembling in your > > bones.... > > > > My sisters met Joni in person in Stokholm when she was touring europe. > She > > talked with my older sister about her life...my sister's life that is and > > invited her to get in the limo and go for dinner ! For every awful story > we > > hear about her there are ten to obliterate the nasty ones. In my book > joni > > mitchell has a heart of pure gold. she is everything she sings about. She > > has been a friend and a witness throughout our lives and has served the > > planet well. Whatever anybody says we could all of us take a leaf out of > > her book. > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:54 AM, T Peckham >wrote: > > > >> {First of all, my apologies if the formatting in this comes out all > funky. > >> When I cut and pasted something in, it seemed like it screwed up the > >> margins and line breaks. Did my best to try to fix it, but . . . } > >> > >> Wow, Kakki, thank you! (I'll admit it, I was hoping somebody out there > >> would like my "pseudo Myrtles" thing. It was meant in good spirit!) > >> > >> You just said more of what I wanted to say, except I can only guess at > and > >> intuit what I think Joni might be like in person, whereas you've had the > >> real experience. To me, she almost always comes off as witty and with a > >> wry > >> sense of humor, particularly about herself--what I was trying to express > >> in > >> my previous post. ("Wry" is a much better description than my "almost > >> self-deprecating"). Ha, from me "who's so good with words"---usually. (A > >> wink and a nod to our dear friend Patti there!). ---I too love Rick's > >> characterization of "a wink and a smile." That's how I've always > >> interpreted her now infamous Dylan comments--and his equally infamous > >> quote, paraphrasing from memory here: "Oh, Joni. She's more like a man." > >> [Okay, I'm truly obsessive, so I went in search of the actual quote. I > >> have > >> the Rolling Stone "Cover to Cover" DVD set, but it was easier to Google > it > >> and find it on the JMDL. Ha!] Here it is, in context, from a 1987 RS > >> interview w/Kurt Loder: > >> > >> "BD: ' . . . Showbiz--well, I don't dig it. I don't go to see someone > jump > >> around. I hate to see chicks perform. _Hate_ it.' > >> KL: 'Why?' > >> BD: 'Because they whore themselves. Especially the ones that don't > >> wear anything. > >> They fuckin' whore themselves.' > >> KL: 'Even someone like Joni Mitchell?' > >> BD: 'Well, no. But, then, Joni Mitchell is almost like a _man_ > [laughs]. I > >> mean, I love Joni, too. But Joni's got a strange sense of rhythm that's > >> all her own, and she lives on that timetable . . . Joni Mitchell is in > her > >> own world all by herself, so she has a right to keep any rhythm she > >> wants.She's allowed to tell you what time it is.' " > >> > >> > >> I think a lot of people misinterpreted that, just as a lot of people > >> either > >> misinterpreted or took Joni's comments out of context. I'm terrible at > >> deciphering metaphors and symbolism, so there are > >> (still!) a fair amount of things I've missed in some of both Mitchell's > >> and > >> Dylan's lyrics. (I do get it and appreciate it when others discuss and > >> interpret > >> them--but my brain just doesn't immediatelygo there when listening on my > >> own.) On the other hand, when I read and hear interviews with either of > >> them, I feel like I'm listening to my own kind. LOL I mean, I get them. > >> And > >> I'm exactly like > >> Joni (tho far less well-read and accomplished than she) when it comes to > >> conversation: small talk bores me to tears; I consider a good couple of > >> hours of truly engaged talk to be A Nice Start. > >> (I'm also an unrepentant night owl like she is--accident of the genes. > But > >> how I'd love to get a phone call from her at 3 AM . . . prime time!) > >> > >> So anyway, those are just more of "so many reasons why" I bristle when I > >> think Ms. Mitchell is being terribly misunderstood and misjudged by some > >> of > >> those who should have a little more faith, > >> let's say, in her spirit and character: those who have followed and know > >> > >> her artistic journey better than the idle listener. No one has to agree > >> with or love or worship everything she's ever done orwritten or said, > but > >> she's certainly earned much better than knee-jerk reactions from her > >> disciples--er, fans. ;-) > >> > >> Thinking about going to sleep now, > >> > >> Terra > >> > >> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:54 PM, kbhla wrote: > >> > >> > Loved reading all the great and very insightful posts on this subject > >> and > >> > agree with all. Also loved Terra's coining of the new term "pseudo > >> > Myrtles" > >> > heehee! That is just perfect! I guess that we do kind of invoke our > >> > "Myrtle" side with Joni at times! But I also know it's just because > we > >> > love > >> > her so much. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Years ago around here, and before I ever met Joni, I would always > defend > >> > her > >> > when something controversial would come up in some interview and > people > >> > would get upset and (to me) jump to all kinds of conclusions. Words > on > >> a > >> > flat piece of paper, whether from first or second hand, are sometimes > so > >> > inadequate and so often misunderstood, especially when they are > >> originating > >> > from someone like Joni who loves to talk at length about everything > and > >> who > >> > is so real. It is said that words alone are the least factor in > >> > communication - body language is the most important factor, followed > by > >> > tone > >> > of voice, inflection and facial expression. Unless you can observe > all > >> > factors in full, much meaning and context is likely to be lost. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Before I ever was so lucky to meet Joni, I really imagined that she > >> would > >> > be > >> > very aloof and imperious in person. I was beyond surprised on meeting > >> her > >> > to find that she was nothing at all like that and was also happily > >> shocked > >> > that her personality was so much like someone you've known all your > >> life - > >> > "one of the gang". No affectations, no public "star" persona, no > polite > >> > and > >> > perfuntory niceties just because you are a fan. I've met and talked > >> with > >> > her three times. Each time she was authentically herself, in the > moment > >> > and > >> > very animated and funny, in addtion to also being genuinely warm and > >> > friendly. Oh, and she LOVES to talk and talk and talk (which is a > great > >> > bonus!). That combination of high genius and high ordinariness makes > her > >> > very extraordinary. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I think some of her words (that sometimes come across as so critical > >> and a > >> > bit scalding) might be interpreted differently if experienced in > >> person. I > >> > experienced her as very witty and wry in an entertaining, but not at > all > >> > snarky way. She just seems to like to ramble, and talk and free > >> associate > >> > a > >> > lot. I agree with Rick's comment about a "wink and a smile." I also > >> agree > >> > with Rick that, despite her ordinariness, she is riduculously famous > and > >> > loved and it all must be overwhelming, and probably unhealthy, at > times > >> to > >> > have to live too much in "that world". Does she act up and lose her > >> temper > >> > at times and sometimes get all crazy? Well, sure she does! Just like > >> most > >> > regular people (or at least myself and people I know)! > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I have never thought she owes me anything. I'm always amazed at > >> anything > >> > she has chosen to put out there for us in the past couple of decades. > >> This > >> > was brought home to me again while experiencing the almost > >> supernaturally > >> > beautiful and perfect Mutts of the Planet tribute on Sunday. We've > all > >> > listened to Joni's music endlessly for most of our lives. We sings > her > >> > songs 24/7 for days on end at Jonifests and gatherings. But there was > >> > something about the performances on Sunday that evoked in me some kind > >> of > >> > lifelong flashback of Joni's life and accomplishments. Two thoughts > >> > predominated - one, it is startling in retrospect to know that Joni > >> wrote > >> > these songs and music when she was only in her 20s and early 30s, and > >> two, > >> > how amazing it was for her to go on all those big tours around the > >> country > >> > in '98 with Bob and Van when she was freaking 55 years old and hadn't > >> > toured > >> > in 15 years!! Bonus points to Joni for also doing the concert tours > in > >> > 2000 > >> > with a full orchestra. Throw in a number of art exhibits, > >> collaborations > >> > with other artists and producing a ballet in Canada and the U.S. > Maybe > >> > there will be more at some point (one can always hope) but wow, what > she > >> > has > >> > already accomplished in her life well exceeds any reasonable > >> expectations! > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 03:27:16 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Peter Herbert Hi Vincenzo - If you enter "Herbert" in the search field on the Undercover site, all of the tracks show up. Not sure how you were checking. I posted about this release about 2 weeks ago, no on-list replies. Didn't bother me a bit. In other covers news, JT's cover of "Woodstock" gets an official release soon. It's a live performance he did for Joni's induction into the R&R HoF, there's a compilation coming out soon. Bob NP: Coleman Hawkins, "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" ________________________________ From: Vincenzo Mancini To: "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 4:47 PM Subject: Peter Herbert Never heard about this: Peter Herbert - 'Joni' (available - f.i.- on amazon.com) feat. ena/vocals, Wolfgang Mitterer/elctronics, Koehne quartet, Peter Herbert/b, comp. I checked the undercover data base on the website and I could not find any Peter Herbert, although I would doubt Bob did not already get it... Vincenzo Comment found on http://www.azizamusic.com/projects.html 'Be cool' sings Joni Mitchell, cool is also the fact, that there is almost no Jazz musician, who doesn't adore Joni Mitchell, also due to the fact, that in a lot of works she collaborated with big names like Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter or Charles Mingus with her legendary recording 'Mingus'. I also belong to this community of eternal 'Joni'-fans, this project is a humble hommage to her unique lyrics and music. By putting new music for string quintet and electronics to her melodies I try to add a new aspect to her world. With the very versatile 'Koehne quartet', the excentric electronic sounds by Wolfgang Mitterer and the distinct voice of ena I hope to reinterpret songs like Love, Blue or Moon at the window new, in all due respect and humbleness. record release date: Oct 14th 2011, label: col-legno ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:47:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Vincenzo Mancini Subject: Peter Herbert Never heard about this: Peter Herbert - 'Joni' (available - f.i.- on amazon.com) feat. ena/vocals, Wolfgang Mitterer/elctronics, Koehne quartet, Peter Herbert/b, comp. I checked the undercover data base on the website and I could not find any Peter Herbert, although I would doubt Bob did not already get it... Vincenzo Comment found on http://www.azizamusic.com/projects.html 'Be cool' sings Joni Mitchell, cool is also the fact, that there is almost no Jazz musician, who doesn't adore Joni Mitchell, also due to the fact, that in a lot of works she collaborated with big names like Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter or Charles Mingus with her legendary recording 'Mingus'. I also belong to this community of eternal 'Joni'-fans, this project is a humble hommage to her unique lyrics and music. By putting new music for string quintet and electronics to her melodies I try to add a new aspect to her world. With the very versatile 'Koehne quartet', the excentric electronic sounds by Wolfgang Mitterer and the distinct voice of ena I hope to reinterpret songs like Love, Blue or Moon at the window new, in all due respect and humbleness. record release date: Oct 14th 2011, label: col-legno ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:45:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Vincenzo Mancini Subject: Re: Peter Herbert Hi Bob, I just browsed by artist and looked for "H" Indeed, they are listed by their first name! No matter how, you got it. Vincenzo ________________________________ Da: Bob Muller A: Vincenzo Mancini ; "joni@smoe.org" Inviato: Lunedl 14 Novembre 2011 12:27 Oggetto: Re: Peter Herbert Hi Vincenzo - If you enter "Herbert" in the search field on the Undercover site, all of the tracks show up. Not sure how you were checking. I posted about this release about 2 weeks ago, no on-list replies. Didn't bother me a bit. In other covers news, JT's cover of "Woodstock" gets an official release soon. It's a live performance he did for Joni's induction into the R&R HoF, there's a compilation coming out soon. Bob NP: Coleman Hawkins, "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" ________________________________ From: Vincenzo Mancini To: "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 4:47 PM Subject: Peter Herbert Never heard about this: Peter Herbert - 'Joni' (available - f.i.- on amazon.com) feat. ena/vocals, Wolfgang Mitterer/elctronics, Koehne quartet, Peter Herbert/b, comp. I checked the undercover data base on the website and I could not find any Peter Herbert, although I would doubt Bob did not already get it... Vincenzo Comment found on http://www.azizamusic.com/projects.html 'Be cool' sings Joni Mitchell, cool is also the fact, that there is almost no Jazz musician, who doesn't adore Joni Mitchell, also due to the fact, that in a lot of works she collaborated with big names like Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter or Charles Mingus with her legendary recording 'Mingus'. I also belong to this community of eternal 'Joni'-fans, this project is a humble hommage to her unique lyrics and music. By putting new music for string quintet and electronics to her melodies I try to add a new aspect to her world. With the very versatile 'Koehne quartet', the excentric electronic sounds by Wolfgang Mitterer and the distinct voice of ena I hope to reinterpret songs like Love, Blue or Moon at the window new, in all due respect and humbleness. record release date: Oct 14th 2011, label: col-legno ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:32:53 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: The Duchess was cool and laid back njc Enjoyed your review, Mark. I've only seen RLJ once, sometime in the '80s, in a small, relatively intimate concert hall. I had to go by myself, alas--no one I knew at the time was either interested or able to go. I don't recall much, other than I had a great seat near the front, and I was blown away by the power of her voice. I remember thinking that her records, while beautifully produced and played, simply didn't fully convey her range and dynamics. I was also quite taken w/her little stage set--I recall a small round nightclub-type table and chair, probably used just for a couple of songs. Oddly enough, I don't remember if this was a solo performance or if she had a band. (Memory impairment due not to substances but depression fog . . . ). Anyway, she's one of those artists whose stage presence and charisma make her a not-to-be-missed performer. I hope I get another chance to see her again soon. Thanks again! T On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Mark wrote: > Rickie Lee Jones had a birthday on Tuesday. She performed at Seattle's > Jazz Alley that night and again last night. Since Rickie Lee lived in > Tacoma at one time which is about 30 miles down the road from Seattle, I > suspect there were friends and family in attendance and there must have > been some kind of festive gathering after Tuesday night's show. > > At any rate, there was some celebration to mark the day because Rickie > alluded to it during her performance last night. After the audience sang > Happy Birthday to her somebody must have asked how old she was because she > told them to Google it. > > At one point between songs, she put her arms up over her head, leaned back > and stretched, telling us that she had just had a massage earlier in the > day. She then made a comment that the massage had taken all of the tension > out of her, tension that was essential to her work. > > So the Duchess of Coolsville gave a laid-back performance last night at > Jazz Alley. Chuck E. was not in attendance, she didn't stick it into > Coolsville and there was no stop at the Last Chance Texaco. There weren't > many up-tempo songs in her set either. This is the fourth time I have seen > Rickie Lee Jones perform live and I have to say, her intensity level last > night was down from what I have seen her generate in the past. > > Part of the reason for this somewhat toned-down performance, aside from > the birthday and massage, was probably due to the nature of the venue. We > were seated at the back of the club on the left side of the stage. > Unfortunately, bass player Reggie McBride was standing directly in our > sight line, blocking Rickie out whenever she was standing up, playing > guitar. But when Rickie Lee sat down at the piano, she was directly facing > us, providing an unobstructed view of her face. It was almost like having > her perform in a house concert. Jazz Alley is a very intimate venue as > Michael Paz can attest. The sound was perfect, crystal clear and not too > loud. Anyone who has done any kind of work on a stage knows that a > performance has to be gaged to match the venue. In a large hall you crank > it up because you have to play to the back row. In a small, intimate > venue, the audience is close enough to see and hear every nuance. So you > tone your performance down. > > Jazz Alley is a very nice venue. It is also a restaurant. Travis, my > good friend Melanie and I were seated at a table on a raised section at the > back. We looked down at the rest of the main floor (there is also a balcony > section) at candles flickering on tables and people finishing their dinners > before the show started. The performance started late because Rickie Lee > Jones won't perform while 'people are chewing their food', as she put it. > I certainly don't blame her for making that stipulation. Even though > dinner was pretty much over by the time she started, there were waiters > moving amongst the tables, serving cocktails, taking orders and filling > water glasses. It was distracting, particularly during the quieter, > reflective moments of Rickie's performance of which there were many last > night. But one thing that struck me was the respectful nature of the > audience. There were some people behind us that were rudely talking > intermittently during much of Rickie's set. But for the most part, the > capacity crowd was quiet up until the last notes had faded out at the end > of every song. Attention was focused on the music throughout which is as > it should be in a live performance given by an artist like Rickie Lee Jones. > > All of that being said, there were some very special moments in last > night's set. Rickie opened with 'Weasel and the White Boys Cool' and it > was evident from the start that this was going to be a relaxed, easy-going > show. Accompanied by drums, cello and McBride's bass, Rickie played with > her phrasing, bringing a spontaneous feel to her vocals. You could see her > thought process and at times, it was almost like she was making up the > songs right then and there. This is not to say that the performances > lacked polish. Each player was accomplished and the ensemble was tight. > The cello provided accents that added to the reflective, melancholy beauty > of many of the songs. On the way to Jazz Alley I had asked Melanie if she > thought of Rickie Lee Jones as a jazz singer. She said no and we agreed > that Rickie Lee, like Joni Mitchell, does not fit into any genre. She is > her own genre. The cello isn't a traditional jazz instrument and its > inclusion in the ensemble gave some of the music an almost classical sound. > Rickie was completely uninhibited about giving audible direction to the > players about tempo, set list, when to wrap up a particular song and > calling for more piano in the monitors several times during the show. She > also talked to the audience quite a bit, very casually and humorously. > > 'Bonfires' was the only song from Rickie's latest cd, 'Balm In Gilead', > she performed 'Stewart's Coat' from 1993's 'Traffic From Paradise' and 'It > Takes You There' from 2003's 'The Evening of My Best Day'. For the rest of > the show she did not venture beyond material from 1989's 'Flying Cowboys'. > 'We Belong Together', 'Living It Up' and the title song from 'Pirates' > were included in the set. One of the highlights of the show was 'On > Saturday Afternoons in 1963'. The melancholy beauty of the lyric and > melody was in perfect synch with Rickie's mood last night. She mentioned > that not many of her songs had been covered but that at least one of them > must have been a big hit in Australia. When she was on tour down under, > she attended a horse race that one of the Kardashians was also attending. > This evinced questions from Rickie Lee that I have often asked myself 'Who > are they? Why are they famous?' Then she said that one of her songs was > performed at this race track and everybody in the place sang along. It was > 'Horses' and she followed up with an easily paced rendition of the song. > The song that bookends 'Horses' in my mind, 'Flying Cowboys' came next and > ended the show. Rickie said 'Ok, we're good'. and she and the musicians > took their bows and left the stage. The audience stood, applauded, hooped > and hollered for some time until the management finally announced that > Rickie Lee would not be returning to the stage. So unfortunately there was > no encore. > > There were two songs from this show that will stay with me always. At one > point Reggie McBride picked up a bodiless upright bass and began to > recreate his duet with Rickie's voice of 'Autumn Leaves' from 'Girl At Her > Volcano'. I have always found this to be an extremely melancholy standard. > It speaks to me of a loss more profound than that of a romantic breakup. > I had never quite warmed up to Rickie Lee's interpretation of it. But > last night the interplay of voice and bass was magic. Maybe part of it was > an appreciation of the difficulty of picking out the correct notes from a > bare bones accompaniment that does not play the melody. Maybe it was the > electricity that Rickie Lee Jones generates for me in live performance. > Whether it's laid back or pumped up, she always manages to hit me in the > gut somewhere along the way. She went deep with this one last night. My > memory tells me that she followed that one up with 'Stewart's Coat' but it > may have been a song or two later. For me, Stewart's Coat' has always been > about finding new happiness after a dark time. Oddly enough, Travis, who > had complained about being cold when we first arrived, was futzing around > putting on his coat during this song. Rickie explained that the song came > to her in Paris when she was yearning to have a child. That makes the > lyric 'I will love the sound of my sheets because you have moved beneath > them' take on a whole new meaning for me. > > Rickie Lee Jones' voice is in excellent shape. She still sounds very much > like she did on her first album. The voice did refuse to hit the highest > note on the song 'Just My Baby' which Rickie Lee frankly acknowledge - > 'That note is just gone'. Maybe the note is gone, maybe she was too tired > to be able or want to try to hit it. She sounded a bit hoarse when she > spoke but the singing was always clear and, with the one noted exception, > sure of pitch. As I look back on it, time is enhancing this performance in > my mind. It was a relaxed, quiet, but meaningful experience. There were > times when the intimacy made it feel like Rickie Lee was singing just for > me and my two beloved friends. I took the day off today and I'm feeling so > good and happy that I saw Rickie Lee Jones perform last night. > > And for Patrick Leader who, along with Melanie, helped me get over my > long-gone misconceptions about Rickie Lee Jones, she performed 'Young > Blood' last night and I thought of you. > > Mark in Seattle > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 07:46:41 -0800 From: "Allison Crowe Music" Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" D'accord to all of Catherine's comments. Seeing Neil Strauss' name come up in this current conversation prompted my post. This is a shallow-celeb-centric writer who boasts about what he views as his own brilliance - using tricks he supposedly learned as a "pick-up artist" to get Britney Spears to warm to him. And, another self-claim to his own fame - he brought Lady Gaga to tears. No surprise that he'd not find any self-promotional benefit in his inability to similarly influence Joni Mitchell. Joni pegged that sort of character a long time earlier - the kind who "don't like strong women because they're hip to your tricks". Joni speaks the absolute truth about the popular music industry. (Even her most unpopular statements are rooted in fact eg. Bob Dylan IS a plagiarist.) That she doesn't humour, or accept, the fraudulent - the "style inventions" that are passed off as sing-songwriters today etc. - is to her credit. As for her personal interactions, as Catherine says, it's good to consider the source, and the context. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #492 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------