From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #486 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 13 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 486 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" [T Peckham Subject: Re: Judy Collins on Joni: "She's a difficult woman" Hi Gerard, I'm glad several others have spoken up to say that a lot of things written by a lot of different Listers can go unremarked upon. I truly think it is mainly just a time problem. And also, at times, a feeling of being overwhelmed by EVERYTHING there is on the 'Net! I find myself sticking in the same old ruts, checking the same websites every day, and just taking time to respond to personal emails. (And I won't even get started on how much time I spend at Facebook, which I swore I'd never join!) As Catherine wrote, sometimes you just have the impulse to hit a "LIKE" button (not unlike going from a stick shift to an automatic--ha ha!) I know some despise FB, and I don't blame them--I refuse to go by my real name there out of privacy concerns, and am always on the lookout for a new alternative. I hope you keep posting, and I wish more folks would jump in more often. I can also say from the experience of belonging to msg. boards that it's really not that much unlike real life--people come and go, take breaks and return, or never return. Or find each other again at new places. I know there's a great Joni quote I should be coming up with here, but I should have gone to sleep a couple hours ago . . . Cheers! Terra On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 7:14 AM, gerard mclaughlin wrote: > One of the things I find hard/difficult to appreciate isn't Joni or > anything she says it is how the fans react to what others say about her. We > are probably none of us as articulate as Joni is and even with her power of > language she is often misunderstood so it goes without saying really that > mortals lesser than she in the words department don't get it right and can > equally be misunderstood. I count myself among that number. I've been on > the list here a number of years now. not many but a few and have often > found my comments ignored. i have as a result tried to disengage from the > joni community because of this democratic (for want of better words) lack > but whenever i have tried to it hasn't worked ! reading these comments has > stirred this complaint in me. surely like joni, whom we all love, each of > us on her list is of value and our opinions, like hers, are of value. They > are only opinions after all and are simply contributions to a discussion > list. Sad if a joni discussion list is a closed book to a few adoring > people who rub each others backs constantly and dislike the slightest > whiff.... or touch of a stranger ! even if it sets up a trembling in your > bones.... > > My sisters met Joni in person in Stokholm when she was touring europe. She > talked with my older sister about her life...my sister's life that is and > invited her to get in the limo and go for dinner ! For every awful story we > hear about her there are ten to obliterate the nasty ones. In my book joni > mitchell has a heart of pure gold. she is everything she sings about. She > has been a friend and a witness throughout our lives and has served the > planet well. Whatever anybody says we could all of us take a leaf out of > her book. > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:54 AM, T Peckham wrote: > >> {First of all, my apologies if the formatting in this comes out all funky. >> When I cut and pasted something in, it seemed like it screwed up the >> margins and line breaks. Did my best to try to fix it, but . . . } >> >> Wow, Kakki, thank you! (I'll admit it, I was hoping somebody out there >> would like my "pseudo Myrtles" thing. It was meant in good spirit!) >> >> You just said more of what I wanted to say, except I can only guess at and >> intuit what I think Joni might be like in person, whereas you've had the >> real experience. To me, she almost always comes off as witty and with a >> wry >> sense of humor, particularly about herself--what I was trying to express >> in >> my previous post. ("Wry" is a much better description than my "almost >> self-deprecating"). Ha, from me "who's so good with words"---usually. (A >> wink and a nod to our dear friend Patti there!). ---I too love Rick's >> characterization of "a wink and a smile." That's how I've always >> interpreted her now infamous Dylan comments--and his equally infamous >> quote, paraphrasing from memory here: "Oh, Joni. She's more like a man." >> [Okay, I'm truly obsessive, so I went in search of the actual quote. I >> have >> the Rolling Stone "Cover to Cover" DVD set, but it was easier to Google it >> and find it on the JMDL. Ha!] Here it is, in context, from a 1987 RS >> interview w/Kurt Loder: >> >> "BD: ' . . . Showbiz--well, I don't dig it. I don't go to see someone jump >> around. I hate to see chicks perform. _Hate_ it.' >> KL: 'Why?' >> BD: 'Because they whore themselves. Especially the ones that don't >> wear anything. >> They fuckin' whore themselves.' >> KL: 'Even someone like Joni Mitchell?' >> BD: 'Well, no. But, then, Joni Mitchell is almost like a _man_ [laughs]. I >> mean, I love Joni, too. But Joni's got a strange sense of rhythm that's >> all her own, and she lives on that timetable . . . Joni Mitchell is in her >> own world all by herself, so she has a right to keep any rhythm she >> wants.She's allowed to tell you what time it is.' " >> >> >> I think a lot of people misinterpreted that, just as a lot of people >> either >> misinterpreted or took Joni's comments out of context. I'm terrible at >> deciphering metaphors and symbolism, so there are >> (still!) a fair amount of things I've missed in some of both Mitchell's >> and >> Dylan's lyrics. (I do get it and appreciate it when others discuss and >> interpret >> them--but my brain just doesn't immediatelygo there when listening on my >> own.) On the other hand, when I read and hear interviews with either of >> them, I feel like I'm listening to my own kind. LOL I mean, I get them. >> And >> I'm exactly like >> Joni (tho far less well-read and accomplished than she) when it comes to >> conversation: small talk bores me to tears; I consider a good couple of >> hours of truly engaged talk to be A Nice Start. >> (I'm also an unrepentant night owl like she is--accident of the genes. But >> how I'd love to get a phone call from her at 3 AM . . . prime time!) >> >> So anyway, those are just more of "so many reasons why" I bristle when I >> think Ms. Mitchell is being terribly misunderstood and misjudged by some >> of >> those who should have a little more faith, >> let's say, in her spirit and character: those who have followed and know >> >> her artistic journey better than the idle listener. No one has to agree >> with or love or worship everything she's ever done orwritten or said, but >> she's certainly earned much better than knee-jerk reactions from her >> disciples--er, fans. ;-) >> >> Thinking about going to sleep now, >> >> Terra >> >> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:54 PM, kbhla wrote: >> >> > Loved reading all the great and very insightful posts on this subject >> and >> > agree with all. Also loved Terra's coining of the new term "pseudo >> > Myrtles" >> > heehee! That is just perfect! I guess that we do kind of invoke our >> > "Myrtle" side with Joni at times! But I also know it's just because we >> > love >> > her so much. >> > >> > >> > >> > Years ago around here, and before I ever met Joni, I would always defend >> > her >> > when something controversial would come up in some interview and people >> > would get upset and (to me) jump to all kinds of conclusions. Words on >> a >> > flat piece of paper, whether from first or second hand, are sometimes so >> > inadequate and so often misunderstood, especially when they are >> originating >> > from someone like Joni who loves to talk at length about everything and >> who >> > is so real. It is said that words alone are the least factor in >> > communication - body language is the most important factor, followed by >> > tone >> > of voice, inflection and facial expression. Unless you can observe all >> > factors in full, much meaning and context is likely to be lost. >> > >> > >> > >> > Before I ever was so lucky to meet Joni, I really imagined that she >> would >> > be >> > very aloof and imperious in person. I was beyond surprised on meeting >> her >> > to find that she was nothing at all like that and was also happily >> shocked >> > that her personality was so much like someone you've known all your >> life - >> > "one of the gang". No affectations, no public "star" persona, no polite >> > and >> > perfuntory niceties just because you are a fan. I've met and talked >> with >> > her three times. Each time she was authentically herself, in the moment >> > and >> > very animated and funny, in addtion to also being genuinely warm and >> > friendly. Oh, and she LOVES to talk and talk and talk (which is a great >> > bonus!). That combination of high genius and high ordinariness makes her >> > very extraordinary. >> > >> > >> > >> > I think some of her words (that sometimes come across as so critical >> and a >> > bit scalding) might be interpreted differently if experienced in >> person. I >> > experienced her as very witty and wry in an entertaining, but not at all >> > snarky way. She just seems to like to ramble, and talk and free >> associate >> > a >> > lot. I agree with Rick's comment about a "wink and a smile." I also >> agree >> > with Rick that, despite her ordinariness, she is riduculously famous and >> > loved and it all must be overwhelming, and probably unhealthy, at times >> to >> > have to live too much in "that world". Does she act up and lose her >> temper >> > at times and sometimes get all crazy? Well, sure she does! Just like >> most >> > regular people (or at least myself and people I know)! >> > >> > >> > >> > I have never thought she owes me anything. I'm always amazed at >> anything >> > she has chosen to put out there for us in the past couple of decades. >> This >> > was brought home to me again while experiencing the almost >> supernaturally >> > beautiful and perfect Mutts of the Planet tribute on Sunday. We've all >> > listened to Joni's music endlessly for most of our lives. We sings her >> > songs 24/7 for days on end at Jonifests and gatherings. But there was >> > something about the performances on Sunday that evoked in me some kind >> of >> > lifelong flashback of Joni's life and accomplishments. Two thoughts >> > predominated - one, it is startling in retrospect to know that Joni >> wrote >> > these songs and music when she was only in her 20s and early 30s, and >> two, >> > how amazing it was for her to go on all those big tours around the >> country >> > in '98 with Bob and Van when she was freaking 55 years old and hadn't >> > toured >> > in 15 years!! Bonus points to Joni for also doing the concert tours in >> > 2000 >> > with a full orchestra. Throw in a number of art exhibits, >> collaborations >> > with other artists and producing a ballet in Canada and the U.S. Maybe >> > there will be more at some point (one can always hope) but wow, what she >> > has >> > already accomplished in her life well exceeds any reasonable >> expectations! >> > >> > >> > >> > Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #486 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------