From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #239 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Thursday, August 18 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 239 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: authority SJC (but not in this post) [Mike Pritchard ] Re: authenticity NJC just some more thoughts on Gillian Welch [Em ] Two Grey Rooms [ava rosenblum ] Re: Two Grey Rooms [Jamie Zubairi ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:56:55 +0200 From: Mike Pritchard Subject: RE: authority SJC (but not in this post) >>Do you think it is possible for their to be a stable "I" to write from? I think it's a bit of a stretch to think the self is that solid, that unified. Even an autobiographical song may capture how you're feeling one year (one day, one hour) but not the next, right? << I think its *possible*, but very difficult and probably impractical i.e. limiting for a writer, especially over a long career. I think that Baumanns work on Liquidity shows that most things (gender roles, family roles, the personality, or self/selves, etc.) are more variable (liquid) than solid (fixed). I am concurrently a son, brother, friend, lover, teacher, student etc, and you KNOW there are WAY more. These do not (often) clash; they are complementary parts of my unique self, or my multiple individual selves. >>Why is it that we are accustomed to literary writers using first-person voices but we tend to expect singers to be singing about themselves? Is it because of the difference between the voice (which comes from a body) and the written word -- which can travel away from the body who wrote it?<< This *may* be about the difference between the voice and word, Im not thats all there is to it. While Im thinking about this (I may respond later) I would add that I have recently read two novels (police procedurals) by Irish writer Tana French. The first (In the Woods) has a first-person male narrator and a female colleague. The second book (The Likeness) is written from the first-person female perspective of the colleague. Both seem *authentic* (plausible) to me and I wouldnt know if they were written by a man or a woman. Just sayin. And on the subject of Irish writers, one of my favourite books is *At Swim-Two-Birds* by Flann OBrien, and here the concept of the author, or *authorial authority*, is blown to smithereens. I had an idea last night about Miles second question but was watching *Murder, My Sweet* at the time and the idea had escaped when the film finished. More later, I hope. mike in barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:13:47 +0200 From: Mike Pritchard Subject: RE: authenticity NJC Miles asked >>Why is it that we are accustomed to literary writers using first-person voices but we tend to expect singers to be singing about themselves? Is it because of the difference between the voice (which comes from a body) and the written word -- which can travel away from the body who wrote it?<< Firstly, as Mark pointed out, Virginia Woolf (and Wilkie Collins before her) had used multiple narratives long before anyone mentioned *postmodernism*, although there seems to be more flexibility of narrative lately (I recommend Pamuks magnificent *My Name is Red* and Jennifer Egans more recent *A Visit from the Goon Squad*, which has one chapter written as a PowerPoint Presentation). I am assuming that Miles means literary writers using first person voices *but not writing about themselves*. I think Chandler and Marlowe couldnt be more different, although Hammett could have been writing about himself as Sam Spade. Go figure. As to the difference between voice and word, it is also, I think, about the difference in length of the work, and the type of the work itself. A singer can perform 15 to 20 songs in a gig and it is a good thing to have different contents, styles, instruments, tempi, etc. I think the novel (Im generalising here) is a different animal and needs some kind of narrative cohesion and I guess a first-person narrative can seem (I hesitate to say *is*) more authentic. I was there!! First person narratives seek to gain the complicity of the listener/reader, or, to go a little further, defy the L/R to contradict the narrator. First-hand narratives are more *authentic* (believable?) than second-hand ones, I think. I also think that people expect less (truth? authenticity?) from songs? Discuss!! I will end here. I will be away until the end of the month and will not contribute any more to this thread. Thanks for all the comments. mike in Barcelona np Bonita - Paula Morelenbaum, Jaques Morelenbaum & Ryuichi Sakamoto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 03:50:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: authenticity NJC just some more thoughts on Gillian Welch Not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet, but I doubt seriously that (in the USA) any miners or farm workers would even ever HEAR Gillian Welch. You have to go out of your way and purposely seek out and listen to community or public or college radio around these parts to hear her. Those sort of workers would most likely be listening to the commercial country stations (blah.....) or if they're from south of the border, some spanish language station. Gillian W. and Dave Rawlings are pretty specialized here in the states, I'd say. She could either "clean up" and go Nashville (like Allison Krause did) OR remain semi underground doing her weird little thing she does. It's as if she sought to become that woman in the famous depression era black and white photo, of the haggard but somehow handsome dust bowl mother. Like that spoke to her so much that it entered her soul, like the soul of the dying Indian in the desert entered Jim Morrison and kind of shamanized him. barely awake, em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:45:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: Sugarland Stage Collapse, njc INTERESTING, Jim--my best friend said the exact same thing (and, after reviewing some extended video footage, I had to agree). Just TERRIBLE! XXXOOO, Billy (in Louisville) NP: 'Under the Big Black Sun' by X ________________________________________ Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 19:16:09 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Sugarland Stage Collapse, njc Jim wrote: >>> I'm no engineer but it looks like the tarp across the roof and the canvas across the back were too strong; they should have broken away before they did, preserving the scaffolding even as they turn to shreds. Instead, I think the tarp acted like a sail and blew the structure toward the right (as the audience looked at the stage). I don't see any cross-bracing for those spindly towers. It wasn't designed for a cross wind at all. Uggh. Even amateur short-wave radio towers have cables to secure them in cross winds. Jim L'Hommedieu <<< Here's some video of the collapse... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LaSOVPOVSg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:59:49 -0400 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: LA joni tribute ONe hour before the show! We are all there with you I am so happy for you that you are there and that you are there altogether. You bring a part of us with you! H U G S to everyone there! Have fun! in joni hippie love joni true love stardust gOLDEn LOve Marianne HI Joni! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:38:19 -0500 From: ava rosenblum Subject: Two Grey Rooms i was listening to Two Grey Rooms tonight on NRH. The lyrics are so intriguing that I looked online to see of there is a story behind them. What a fascinating portrait created by JM. Thought some of you who didn't know this would be similarly intrigued. > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Grey_Rooms ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 07:28:51 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: Two Grey Rooms Just to note on the video compilation which has Two Grey Rooms within it, Joni says she came across this story "about a fella, someone from Fassbender's scene" whereas Wikipedia (which often gets things wrong) claims it's Fassbender himself. I can't imagine if Fassbender were gay that he'd hole himself up out of the public eye just to watch someone walk past twice a day. I love the story though, and the song. And the opening chord sequence. Jamie Zubairi Sent from my iPhone On 18 Aug 2011, at 04:38, ava rosenblum wrote: > i was listening to Two Grey Rooms tonight on NRH. The lyrics are so > intriguing that I looked online to see of there is a story behind > them. What a fascinating portrait created by JM. Thought some of you > who didn't know this would be similarly intrigued. > > >> >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Grey_Rooms ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #239 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------