From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #228 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Sunday, August 7 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 228 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Idyllwild 2? [Anita G ] Taigu Ryokan's Moon poem and MATW ["Marian" ] Re: Taigu Ryokan's Moon poem and MATW [Anita G ] Re: The Dawntreader [Anita G ] [none] [hoopsjohn1@aol.com] writing process [betsyblue82@gmail.com] Re: writing process [Dave Blackburn ] Re: The Dawntreader [Catherine McKay ] Top Desert Island Discs - A Case Of You makes no. 93 [Joe Jones Subject: Re: Idyllwild 2? Not only the opportunity to go to Idyllwild but to see Mr Paz again? Late 2012 (post Olympics) and even better sometime 2013? It would be the ONLY place I would want to be. Here's hoping! Anita x On 5 August 2011 20:43, Michael Paz wrote: > Count me in as the first one to sign up for Idylwild 2 > > Paz > > Michael Paz > michael@thepazgroup.com > Tour Manager > Preservation Hall Jazz Band > http://www.preservationhall.com > > > > On Aug 5, 2011, at 3:36 PM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > Dear Anita, > > If there was sufficient interest we might consider a reprise of the > Idyllwild Fest someday. It certainly was fun. > > Glad you're enjoying Robin's CD too. It still sounds good to us after 13 > years. > > Dave > > On Aug 5, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Anita G wrote: > > Let's hope, Mark, we get to meet at the next Idyllwild Joni Fest > > (which I am hoping won't be next July or August when it's the London > > Olympics) but soon! How about it, Mr Be? > > Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 13:18:38 +0200 From: "Marian" Subject: Taigu Ryokan's Moon poem and MATW Didn't know about the connection before today while watching an episode of Season 4 of Heroes. I did some searching and found that Les had posted about it in JMDL in 2006: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni/v2006.n341 This is what I found before looking for JMDL postings: + + + + + poetry-chaikana.com : One day Ryokan returned to his hut and discovered a that a thief broke into his abode and was stealing the impoverished monk's few possessions. In the thief's haste to leave, he left behind a cushion. Ryokan grabbed the cushion and ran after the thief to give it to him. The incident inspired Master Ryokan to write one of his most popular poems: The thief left it behind: the moon at my window. + + + + + http://www.poemhunter.com/taigu-ryokan/biography/ Biography of Taigu Ryokan Ryokan was born in the village of Izumozaki in Echigo Province (now Niigata Prefecture) in Japan to the village headman. He renounced the world at an early age to train at nearby Soto Zen temple Koshoji, refusing to meet with or accept charity from his family. Once the Zen master Kokusen visited the temple, and Ryokan was deeply impressed with his demeanor. He solicited permission to become Kokusen's disciple. Kokusen accepted, and the two returned to Entsuji monastery in Tamashima (now Okayama Prefecture). It was at Entsuji that Ryokan attained satori and was presented with an Inka by Kosusen. Kokusen died the following year, and Ryokan left Entsuji to embark on a long pilgrimage. He lived much of the rest of his life as a hermit, and did not return to monastic life. He was originally ordained as Ryokan Taigu. Ryo means "good", kan means "broad", and Taigu means "great fool"; Ryokan would thus translate as "broad-hearted generous fool", referring to qualities that Ryokan's work and life embodies. Ryokan spent much of his time writing poetry, calligraphy, and communing with nature. His poetry is often very simple and inspired by nature. He loved children, and sometimes forgot to beg for food because he was playing with the children of the nearby village. Ryokan refused to accept any position as a priest or even as a "poet", which shows his great humility. In the tradition of Zen his quotes and poems show he had a good sense of humour and didn't take himself too seriously. However his poetry also gives illumining insights into the practise of Zen. Taigu Ryokan's Published Books: Dewdrops on a Lotus Leaf: Zen Poems of Ryokan + + + + + + Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 15:21:15 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Taigu Ryokan's Moon poem and MATW Marian, I found this most interesting, thank you, and followed the link you sent and scrolled through this Joni Digest to Les's post and have copied and pasted it below. As a part time Buddhist (if it's possible to be such a thing), I find this fascinating. I feel as though these past two weeks have given me so much more insight into Joni's songs (the discussions of EATK and CBSASW) and here's another with MATW. I must have missed it in 2006! Who knows where the Time goes? Anita Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:06:18 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: The Moon at My Window One thing I love about doing the Joni website is the messages I often get out of the blue. This one came from Jeff Capp. I love little tidbits like this: "At least the moon at the window The thieves left that behind" This is an allusion to / appropriation of one of the most famous poems by the Japanese Buddhist priest Ryokan (1758-1831). The poem entitled "The Thief Left It Behind" is as follows: The thief left it behind: the moon at my window. According to Ivan M. Granger "The moon is a common metaphor, especially among the Zen poets, to represent enlightened awareness. In this haiku Ryokan is laughing at the absurdity of the theft. "The thief left it behind," he foolishly couldn't recognize the one great treasure the poor monk possessed -- "the moon," enlightenment -- and, instead, took an armload of worthless junk. (To point out what a petty haul it was, Ryokan even ran after the thief with the missed cushion.) Any sort of theft of Ryokan's possessions was a pointless act because, of course, who can take the moon from his window? Ryokan is amused and invites us to join in his laughter." This quote and other information about Ryokan can be found on Granger's website: http://www.poetry-chaikhana .com/ On 6 August 2011 12:18, Marian wrote: > Didn't know about the connection before today while watching an episode of > Season 4 of Heroes. I did some searching and found that Les had posted about > it in JMDL in 2006: > > http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni/v2006.n341 > > This is what I found before looking for JMDL postings: > > + + + + + > > poetry-chaikana.com : > > One day Ryokan returned to his hut and discovered a that a thief broke into > his abode and was stealing the impoverished monk's few possessions. In the > thief's haste to leave, he left behind a cushion. Ryokan grabbed the cushion > and ran after the thief to give it to him. The incident inspired Master Ryokan > to write one of his most popular poems: > > The thief left it behind: > the moon > at my window. > > + + + + + > > http://www.poemhunter.com/taigu-ryokan/biography/ > > Biography of Taigu Ryokan > > Ryokan was born in the village of Izumozaki in Echigo Province (now Niigata > Prefecture) in Japan to the village headman. He renounced the world at an > early age to train at nearby Soto Zen temple Koshoji, refusing to meet with or > accept charity from his family. Once the Zen master Kokusen visited the > temple, and Ryokan was deeply impressed with his demeanor. He solicited > permission to become Kokusen's disciple. Kokusen accepted, and the two > returned to Entsuji monastery in Tamashima (now Okayama Prefecture). > > It was at Entsuji that Ryokan attained satori and was presented with an Inka > by Kosusen. Kokusen died the following year, and Ryokan left Entsuji to embark > on a long pilgrimage. He lived much of the rest of his life as a hermit, and > did not return to monastic life. > > He was originally ordained as Ryokan Taigu. Ryo means "good", kan means > "broad", and Taigu means "great fool"; Ryokan would thus translate as > "broad-hearted generous fool", referring to qualities that Ryokan's work and > life embodies. > > Ryokan spent much of his time writing poetry, calligraphy, and communing with > nature. His poetry is often very simple and inspired by nature. He loved > children, and sometimes forgot to beg for food because he was playing with the > children of the nearby village. Ryokan refused to accept any position as a > priest or even as a "poet", which shows his great humility. In the tradition > of Zen his quotes and poems show he had a good sense of humour and didn't take > himself too seriously. However his poetry also gives illumining insights into > the practise of Zen. > > Taigu Ryokan's Published Books: Dewdrops on a Lotus Leaf: Zen Poems of Ryokan > > + + + + + + > > > Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 08:29:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Lc Stanley Subject: The Dawntreader Hi Ya'll, Was playing The Dawntreader just now and have been thinking about the rather mathematical weaving of the words "a promise to be free" in the three parts of the song: "He stakes all his silver, on a promise to be free," (Mermaids) "Skin white by skin golden, like a promise to be free." (Dolphins) ''And a dream of a baby, like a promise to be free." (Children) First he is all about personal freedom and fancies many women (colonies of mermaids), then he falls in love with her (dolphins swim freely but in pairs), and finally she fantasizes about her own personal freedom painted in her interaction with the seabird while at the same time she fantasizes about settling down with him through her "dream of a baby" (Children). A full circle of the feeling of ultimate personal freedom is reached in the children laughing as they run into the sea. One last thought... with the repetitive ending line, "All his sea dreams come to me," blushingly I ask has anybody else thought that sea dreams are wet dreams, her being the object of his fantasy in them? Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 16:54:06 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: The Dawntreader You may be blushing, dear Laura, But I never thought the sea dreams were anything else! That probably says more about me.........:~)) Mind you, I was 14 when I first heard the song and it all seemed so very sexual, mystical, romantic and impressionistic. At that time, in 1968 it seemed so very bold to me, that a woman should be alluding to desire in such a poetic way. I felt I had a naughty secret from my parents when I listened to it! It remains my favourite Joni song of all time. The guitar part is just out of this world and the ways the guitars were double tracked to give that beautiful jangle......well, I could go on and on raving about its brilliance. Anita > One last thought... with the repetitive > ending line, "All his sea dreams come to me," blushingly I ask has anybody > else thought that sea dreams are wet dreams, her being the object of his > fantasy in them? > > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 11:10:58 -0400 (EDT) From: hoopsjohn1@aol.com Subject: [none] j1qtmury. http://besteventstaff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/img/mwsb.html 3fzy0 eeo8tvbl30vy mft24t04r, umzdz7hbvjzb ue3x1kkk42. ik4yt7rlb 27m67 r0q51qje. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 19:33:14 +0000 From: betsyblue82@gmail.com Subject: writing process Anita wrote "Joni just went through his text and wrote 'Cliche, cliche' all over it" Joni actually originated phrases that are now cliches. By that I mean she came up with an original way to convey meaning, and others appropriated it without regard for her intent. Examples include paved paradise. Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 12:40:38 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: writing process We are stardust, Back to the garden, None of the crazy you get from too much choice, are some others. On Aug 6, 2011, at 12:33 PM, betsyblue82@gmail.com wrote: > Anita wrote "Joni just went through his text and wrote 'Cliche, cliche' all over it" > > Joni actually originated phrases that are now cliches. By that I mean she came up with an original way to convey meaning, and others appropriated it without regard for her intent. Examples include paved paradise. > Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 14:37:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The Dawntreader I had never even thought of that but, now that it has been said, it works for me. And it's a bit more romantic, isn't it, than the expression "wet dreams"? I like your description of it, Anita, as "impressionistic." There is something about both the language and music that makes me think of impressionist art and also music from that period: Ravel and Debussy. I'm not really sure why - it's just my impression! Mwa ha ha! But yeah, Debussy, and why the hell not? He wrote "Nuages" and Joni wrote "Clouds" and they played "Nuages" at the beginning of [at least some of] her big-orchestra concerts that then led to the Travelogue album. And she played "Dawntreader" with the orchestra too. The circle is complete... Or is it? >________________________________ >From: Anita G >To: Lc Stanley >Cc: Joni List >Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2011 11:54:06 AM >Subject: Re: The Dawntreader > >You may be blushing, dear Laura, But I never thought the sea dreams >were anything else! That probably says more about me.........:~)) Mind >you, I was 14 when I first heard the song and it all seemed so very >sexual, mystical, romantic and impressionistic. At that time, in 1968 >it seemed so very bold to me, that a woman should be alluding to >desire in such a poetic way. I felt I had a naughty secret from my >parents when I listened to it! > >It remains my favourite Joni song of all time. The guitar part is just >out of this world and the ways the guitars were double tracked to give >that beautiful jangle......well, I could go on and on raving about its >brilliance. >Anita > > >> One last thought... with the repetitive >> ending line, "All his sea dreams come to me," blushingly I ask has anybody >> else thought that sea dreams are wet dreams, her being the object of his >> fantasy in them? >> >> >> Love, >> Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 01:09:32 +0100 From: Joe Jones Subject: Top Desert Island Discs - A Case Of You makes no. 93 Greetings from a rainy St. Asaph. The BBC published the Desert Island Discs Top 100 Listener Choices Chart today. and Joni made the chart. If you remember, she was, surprisingly to some, the most popular female artist in previous results / comments from the BBC. An article is at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/aug/07/desert-island-100-tracks and the chart is at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/desert-island-discs/about/your-desert-island-discs Cheers - Joe np - Stage Fright - the DCC Gold Todd Rundgren Mixes version - which is a vast improvement ;-) - -- - -- Joe Jones +44 7831 914094 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 01:18:53 +0100 From: Joe Jones Subject: And the 26th most popular artist ! Top woman ahead of Kate Bush. Also, just noticed that she's 26th in the Artist Chart. Should be No. 1 but hey, best woman is an accolade in itself. And it's mainly Brits voting, which is going to skew the results. Joe - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Joe Jones Date: 7 August 2011 01:09 Subject: Top Desert Island Discs - A Case Of You makes no. 93 To: joni@smoe.org Greetings from a rainy St. Asaph. The BBC published the Desert Island Discs Top 100 Listener Choices Chart today. and Joni made the chart. If you remember, she was, surprisingly to some, the most popular female artist in previous results / comments from the BBC. An article is at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/aug/07/desert-island-100-tracks and the chart is at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/desert-island-discs/about/your-desert-island-discs Cheers - Joe np - Stage Fright - the DCC Gold Todd Rundgren Mixes version - which is a vast improvement ;-) - -- - -- Joe Jones +44 7831 914094 - -- - -- Joe Jones +44 7831 914094 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #228 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. 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