From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #222 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Monday, August 1 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 222 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni in Philly, 1976 [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni in Philly, 1976 [Moni Kellermann ] Re: Joni in Philly, 1976 [Catherine McKay ] Roses Blue live ["Mark" ] Re: Joni's Austin Concert 1974 [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: Roses Blue live [Catherine McKay ] Re: Roses Blue live [Lieve Reckers ] Re: Roses Blue live [Michael Paz ] Re: Roses Blue live ["Mark" ] Re: Edith and the Kingpin - Tina vs Joni ["Mark" Subject: Joni in Philly, 1976 I've uploaded some of the songs (in lossy files, Apple format, which is m4a) to YouSendIt. In order for me to upload the entire concert in that format, I'd need to split it into five parts and am not sure if YouSendIt will even let me upload that much. They allow you a max of only 50mb per upload and I think there's a limit on the total overall you can upload there if, like me, you don't have the Premium (i.e. pay more to get more) version. For this sampler, I've included these four: 1-04 The Dowie Dens of Yarrow 1-10 Coyote_Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 2-03 Edith and the Kingpin 2-11 The Jungle Line The first one is missing the explanation of how Joni used this song, a capella, to sing while she was changing a broken guitar string, since that's tagged on to the end of the preceeding song. I've included "Coyote/DJRD" since it's a two-for-one and am not sure if she has ever done this elsewhere, at least, not that there are recordings for. I've also included "Edith and the Kingpin" since there are few live performances of this, and it has been discussed quite recently here on list. And, I've included "The Jungle Line," since I'm not aware of any other live performances of this. This Philly show is remarkable for having a number of live performances of songs for which there are few, if any, live performances. The quality is good, but not perfect, but it is one of my favourite Joni live performances. You can get these m4a files by clicking on the following link:http://tinyurl.com/3uhhoaw Click the button "download files to my computer," and then download. Alternatively, if you have a dropbox account, let me know, as I have uploaded the entire Philly show there (aiff format). It's a big file at over 1 gig. If you would like to get it from there, send me an email and I'll send you an invitation to share it. Please remember to copy it from the Dropbox site and paste it to your own computer, rather than try to move it; otherwise, it will disappear from Dropbox. If you do not have a Dropbox account and would like one, also let me know and I'll send you an invitation, so you can download the Dropbox app and then copy the file to your computer. By accepting my invitation, both of us gain some 250 mb storage on Dropbox. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 18:12:08 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: Joni in Philly, 1976 Am 31.07.2011 16:03, Wie Catherine McKay so vortrefflich formulierte: > I've uploaded some of the songs (in lossy files, Apple format, which > is m4a) to YouSendIt. In order for me to upload the entire concert > in that format, I'd need to split it into five parts Doesn't that give you a headache? ;) I dived into my archives and pulled out a mp3 version of that show which you now can download in one piece from http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IL8M27D0 Joni Mitchell The Spectrum Philadelphia, PA February 16, 1976 Disc 1: 01) Help Me 02) Love or Money 03) Free Man in Paris 04) The Dowie Dens of Yarrow 05) For the Roses 06) Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire 07) Big Yellow Taxi 08) Shades of Scarlett Conquering 09) For Free 10) Coyote/Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 11) Just Like This Train Disc 2: 01) Shadows and Light 02) In France They Kiss on Main Street 03) Edith and the Kingpin 04) Talk to Me 05) Harry's House/Centerpiece 06) Furry Sings the Blues 07) Trouble Child 08) Rainy Night House 09) Don't Interrupt The Sorrow 10) Raised on Robbery 11) The Jungle Line 12) Twisted ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:29:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni in Philly, 1976 Awwww, now you tell me! Thanks for doing this, Moni. I knew someone would be able to do this! - ----- Original Message ----- > From: Moni Kellermann > To: Jonilist > Cc: Catherine McKay > Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 12:12:08 PM > Subject: Re: Joni in Philly, 1976 > > Am 31.07.2011 16:03, Wie Catherine McKay so vortrefflich formulierte: >> I've uploaded some of the songs (in lossy files, Apple format, which >> is m4a) to YouSendIt. In order for me to upload the entire concert >> in that format, I'd need to split it into five parts > > Doesn't that give you a headache? ;) > > I dived into my archives and pulled out a mp3 version of that show which you now > can download in one piece from > > http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IL8M27D0 > > Joni Mitchell > The Spectrum > Philadelphia, PA > February 16, 1976 > > Disc 1: > 01) Help Me > 02) Love or Money > 03) Free Man in Paris > 04) The Dowie Dens of Yarrow > 05) For the Roses > 06) Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire > 07) Big Yellow Taxi > 08) Shades of Scarlett Conquering > 09) For Free > 10) Coyote/Don Juan's Reckless Daughter > 11) Just Like This Train > > Disc 2: > 01) Shadows and Light > 02) In France They Kiss on Main Street > 03) Edith and the Kingpin > 04) Talk to Me > 05) Harry's House/Centerpiece > 06) Furry Sings the Blues > 07) Trouble Child > 08) Rainy Night House > 09) Don't Interrupt The Sorrow > 10) Raised on Robbery > 11) The Jungle Line > 12) Twisted ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:08:29 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Roses Blue live Has anyone else heard this? I don't remember ever hearing a live version of this song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOqDabQGfGc Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 14:47:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Re: Joni's Austin Concert 1974 Mark (and Randy) -- 'Miles of Aisles' has indeed been restored on the HDCD version (clocking in at 78:05). ALL of the between-song-banter that was missing from the first CD issue (i.e., the full band introduction before "Carey," the full introduction to "The Circle Game," the full introduction to the final two 'new' songs--even the bit where the guy yells "Joni--you have more class than Mick Jagger, Richard Nixon and Gomer Pyle combined" followed by Joni's hearty laugh)--as well as the full-length applause--have all returned in their original glory. In fact, Joni even 'corrected' the front cover album art to the way she always intended it to be. If you recall, the original artwork (on both LP and CD) cut off the second 'L' of 'Mitchell' on the title. Joni later said it was rushed out for a holiday release (for Christmas of '74). So, she reworked the titles when they reissued it on HDCD so that her complete name now fits. And the sound is more-or-less a revelation compared to the original issue. The only editing done was to combine the four separate sides into one long set (with the only complete fade out at the very end). My only wish is that she would someday expand it to include more of the songs from the then-most-recent 'Court and Spark.' Now, THAT would be a dream. XXXOOO, Billy NP: 'Horses and High Heels' (2011) by Marianne Faithfull - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:38:39 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Subject: Joni's Austin Concert 1974 Hi Randy, Now I'm going to have to listen to my HDCD MOA. I haven't played it in a long time. I stuck it in my player just now and the total running time showed as 78:03. For some reason I thought there was a big improvement over the first pressing as far as editing was concerned. Now I'll have to check it out. The original release was 2 vinyl records and each of the 4 sides were sequenced into mini-sets. It was almost like 4 Joni Mitchell 'suites'. It seems like this would merit at least a 2 cd treatment. But even the first MOA cd release was better than the hatchet job that was performed on 'Shadows and Light' when that record first appeared on cd. Whole songs were edited out of that one to cram it on to 1 disk. I ended up ordering a double cd Japanese import from an independent store because I wouldn't buy a crappy incomplete version of that stellar concert recording. MOA is a magic album for me. It introduced me to a lot of Joni's pre 'Court and Spark' songs and was a big motivator to buy the records those songs were originally recorded on. I wish time travel were possible so I could have attended one of those concerts. Joni is in top form as a performer on MOA and her singing and playing are marvelous. Mark in Seattle - - -----Original Message----- From: Randy Remote Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:17 PM To: Joni Subject: Re: Subject: Joni's Austin Concert 1974 >I >really loved my 'Miles of Aisles' album but someone stole it many >years ago. I have never seen it available on cd. >Anita It has remained in print on CD. Ten bucks on Amazon. Unfortunately, to fit it on CD, the album was crudely edited, removing Joni's in-between banter and other audience response. Also unfortunately, this was not corrected upon the HDCD release. The CD clocks in at 74m, the limit a CD would hold in the early days of the format. Later, the capacity was increased to 80m. Seems like typical record company laziness (ie greed) not to re-edit. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 14:33:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Roses Blue live This isn't my favourite Joni song, but I love this version, Mark, so thanks for posting it. I love Joni's little opening comments on it, "about a witch who lives in my country's capital." The quality of the sound is very good. - ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark > To: joni > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 1:08:29 PM > Subject: Roses Blue live > > Has anyone else heard this? I don't remember ever hearing a live version of > this song. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOqDabQGfGc > > Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 23:46:57 +0100 (BST) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Roses Blue live I will risk being roasted for this, but I didn't know this song. I never claimed to be a Joni completist, but still I am surprised not to know it. And though it's far from my favourite (too many masterpieces vying for that title), I must say I really like it for managing to have its own perfect little character, like a humble but perfectly formed pearl. I also quickly want to add that I regret I could not contribute to any of the interesting threads in the last few weeks that suddenly blossomed on this list and reminded me of the old times, because I was away with very limited access to the internet, so there was hardly enough time to read the posts, let alone respond to them. Just to prove the general point again: lack of response is not the same as lack of interest! Lieve back in London >________________________________ >From: Catherine McKay >To: Mark ; joni >Sent: Sunday, 31 July 2011, 22:33 >Subject: Re: Roses Blue live > >This isn't my favourite Joni song, but I love this version, Mark, so thanks for posting it. I love Joni's little opening comments on it, "about a witch who lives in my country's capital." The quality of the sound is very good. > > > >----- Original Message ----- >> From: Mark >> To: joni >> Cc: >> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 1:08:29 PM >> Subject: Roses Blue live >> >> Has anyone else heard this? I don't remember ever hearing a live version of >> this song. >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOqDabQGfGc >> >> Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 18:02:36 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Roses Blue live Love this version. Thanks for posting it Mark Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Jul 31, 2011, at 12:08 PM, Mark wrote: Has anyone else heard this? I don't remember ever hearing a live version of this song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOqDabQGfGc Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 16:22:35 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Roses Blue live Hi Lieve, I have to admit, this isn't my favorite Joni song either. But I have come to appreciate it as the years have gone by. It was recorded on the 'Clouds' album. One thing that I had never noticed until someone here pointed it out long ago is that each verse of the song (except the first one, of course) begins with the word or phrase that the previous verse ended with: I think of tears, I think of rain on shingles I think of rain, I think of roses blue I think of Rose, my heart begins to tremble To see the place she's lately gotten to Gotten to, gotten to She's gotten to mysterious devotions She's gotten to the zodiac and Zen She's gotten into tarot cards and potions She's laying her religion on her friends On her friends, on her friends Friends who come to ask her for their future Friends who come to find they can't be friends Because of signs and seasons that don't suit her She'll prophesy your death, she won't say when Won't say when, won't say when When all the black cards come you cannot barter No, when all your stars are stacked you cannot win She'll shake her head and treat you like a martyr It is her blackest spell she puts you in Puts you in, puts you in In sorrow she can lure you where she wants you Inside your own self-pity there you swim In sinking down to drown her voice still haunts you And only with your laughter can you win Can you win, can you win You win the lasting laurels with your laughter It reaches like an arm before you sink To win the solitary truth you're after You dare not ask the priestess how to think How to think, how to think I think of tears, I think of rain on shingles I think of rain, I think of roses blue I think of Rose, my heart begins to tremble To see the place she's lately gotten to Gotten to, gotten to I swear our wind chimes were just playing a three note phrase from 'Court and Spark' a few minutes ago. The three notes that go with 'sleeping roll..' in the first verse. They do that every now and then when the wind hits them just right. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Lieve Reckers Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:46 PM To: Catherine McKay ; Mark ; joni Subject: Re: Roses Blue live I will risk being roasted for this, but I didn't know this song. I never claimed to be a Joni completist, but still I am surprised not to know it. And though it's far from my favourite (too many masterpieces vying for that title), I must say I really like it for managing to have its own perfect little character, like a humble but perfectly formed pearl. IFrom: Catherine McKay To: Mark ; joni Sent: Sunday, 31 July 2011, 22:33 Subject: Re: Roses Blue live This isn't my favourite Joni song, but I love this version, Mark, so thanks for posting it. I love Joni's little opening comments on it, "about a witch who lives in my country's capital." The quality of the sound is very good. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 17:34:59 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin - Tina vs Joni I'm trying to remember who said what in this discussion. But someone said that Robin's 'voice' comes through in her writing and even though I have never met Robin, I agree. Robin, I can feel your personality in your writing and you express yourself very well. And I love reading your observations from a professional singer's point of view. So please don't be shy. I keep thinking about Billie Holiday in relation to this discussion. She once said 'anything I do sing, it's part of my life'. Well, Billie sang a *lot* of different songs over the span of her career. I'm sure some of them seemed to her like expressions of different parts or episodes from her own life. With other songs I'm sure she drew on her life experience but also, as someone else pointed out (excuse me please, but I can't remember who), combined that with her creative imagination like any other performing artist to shape a convincing portrayal of the lyric. Billie was an absolute genius at making a listener believe that she was truly feeling every word she sang. Using her creative imagination, I suspect that on some level she really was able to feel the song and project that to the audience. It's no secret that Tina Turner was victimized by a controlling man who used her talent for his own gain and abused her physically and psychologically. That being said, is it really Tina drawing on that experience or is it the listener who projects it into her performance of 'Edith and the Kingpin'? Probably a bit of both. What difference does it make if we hear beauty and honesty in this rendition that was created by a combination of great talents as Robin pointed out? I think there are certain songs that certain performers are able to charge with an emotional electricity that is generated from memories of events from their own lives. When this happens with a truly great singer, certainly there is something extraordinary that makes a tremendous impact. If we know about this connection between the singer and the song, we as listeners contribute to that impact. There are many of Joni's songs that this happens with when we hear her sing them. Since Joni wrote 99.99% of the songs she has sung over the years, this is understandable. 'Edith and the Kingpin'? Again, as I believe another lister commented, Joni is more of a detached observer here and we perceive her as such. When Tina sings it, she almost certainly draws on her own experience on some level and, knowing what we know about her, we are more likely to actually see her as Edith. I'm a bit ashamed to say it, but I really don't remember what Elvis Costello's version is like. I'm not a fan of his and, to tell the truth, I haven't listened to the 'Tribute' cd more than once or twice and that would have been back when I first bought it. So I can't really comment on that version. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Robin Adler Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:54 AM Cc: recipient list not shown: Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin - Tina vs Joni Hello, I'm a bit shy and admittedly a little intimidated when it comes to posting on the JMDL. You are all so well spoken and thoughtful. I'm afraid my punctuation or grammar may be wrong and darn if Dave isn't teaching right now so he can't check it for me. So, please forgive me ahead of time any of you English scholars . Having said that I will dip my toe into this conversation. I really dig Tina's version of Edith but it's not just her singing. I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet but as a singer, I know that what is being played instrumentally beneath what I'm singing effects the performance. Herbie's choice of chords and reharmonization gives this song a cool, hip, sassy feel and an urban flavor. Also, the relaxed steady brush work of the drummer. Just try snapping your fingers to it while sashaying around the room and let your shoulders and head groove. Look on as if you were a passed over girl. I can visualize being in New York city. If this had had a polka groove I think even Tina would have a hard time selling it, although she would come the closest. Robin On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:25 AM, betsyblue82@gmail.com wrote: > but after Tina s >> definitive version on River, it s tough to listen to any other, even the >> original. >> mike in bcn > >> I remember reading reviews at the time that inferred that her > understanding of the song came through her life experience. I think > the way the song comes across when she sings it gives a lot of > credence to that idea, > Anita > > Tina's EATK is probably the only cover I prefer to the original. Very few > covers actually make me think about the lyrics all over again, but there > are several on River that succeed. > > My take is that Tina won the battle in her own life, despite her ex's > efforts to make her subservient. She has a spark that couldn't be > extinguished, and that's what comes across in the song. The subtext is > that Tina was really Edith. She escaped. > > Joni is necessarily detached. Like most of HOSL, she is an observer. > Interested and emotionally invested, but nothing is really as stake for > her personally. Her voice is so soft and velvety that she would have lost > that battle anyway. > > -Betsy > Ironically NP: For a Rocker, Jackson Browne > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 04:01:34 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Joni's Victoria Theater concert 74 Hi I gave about 10 copies of that Victoria 74 dvd at the UK Jonifest. Let me know if you need one. Laurent From: Anita G Subject: Re: Subject: Joni's Austin Concert 1974 Jamie, do you have a link at all for that Old Grey Whistle Test footage? I was at the New Victoria Theatre when Joni Played there with Tom Scott, but I have never seen any footage. That wold be amazing. I really loved my 'Miles of Aisles' album but someone stole it many years ago. I have never seen it available on cd. Anita On 29 July 2011 17:22, Jamie Zubairi Home < jamiezubairi@gmail.com> wrote: > I guess the closest thing to the Miles Of Aisles period on film was > the 'Old Grey Whistle Test' special which was shot at the New Victoria > Theatre in London. I think some of that footage is on YouTube. It's by > the BBC. I would really love them to spruceit up and produce it as a > DVD. Wouldn't that be beautiful? > > Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 05:31:48 +0000 From: betsyblue82@gmail.com Subject: Urban Dictionary NJC Blue-(adj) London slang, extreme compliment, meaning enchanting or bewitching, description of a girl (usually blonde), whose beauty is so iridescent it suffuses all around her with a feeling of love and peace; girl with inner beauty radiated to those around her, "Wow, that girl is soooo blue!" Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #222 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------