From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #215 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Monday, July 25 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 215 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: musicians on Joni's dulcimer songs [Bob Muller ] Re: Amy Winehouse RIP njc [Catherine McKay ] Norway njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Norway njc [Anita G ] Re: Norway njc [Mags ] Norwegian terrorism njc [Vince ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Victor Johnson ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Moni Kellermann ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Anita G ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Em ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Dave Blackburn ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Vince ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Victor ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc ["Mark" ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Anita G ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Vince ] Norwegian Tragedy NJC [Victor ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Anita G ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc [Bob Muller ] Re: Norwegian terrorism njc ["gene" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 03:08:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: musicians on Joni's dulcimer songs Ava, Why bother with Wikipedia when JM.com has it all? http://jonimitchell.com/music/album.cfm?id=5 and click on "Album Notes": Stephen Stills: Bass & Guitar on "Carey." James Taylor: Guitar on "California," "All I Want," "A Case of You." Sneeky Pete: Pedal Steel on "California," "This Flight Tonight." Russ Kunkel: Drums on "California," "Carey," "A Case of You." Bob - ----- Original Message ---- From: ava rosenblum To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sun, July 24, 2011 12:58:31 PM Subject: musicians on Joni's dulcimer songs I am trying to find out who the musicians are on the dulcimer songs on BLUE. I've been able to find Carey on Wikipedia (Stephen Stills on guitar and bass). I'm pretty sure I read in one of joni's biographies that James Taylor is on California (guitar). Does the website have the musicians for those songs listed? Was listening to some of those recordings tonight, and as always, am amazed at the perfection of the arrangements and playing. Thanks, ava ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 04:49:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Amy Winehouse RIP njc Same here. I can't think of Amy Winehouse without thinking of Bob Murphy singing "Rehab." And 27 is also only three years older than my older child. I think of people that I've dealt with through my job talking about their struggles to get some kind of rehab for their kids who have terrible addictions and I realize this kind of thing can and does happen to any family - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Bob Muller > To: Catherine McKay ; joni@smoe.org > Sent: Sat, July 23, 2011 10:11:45 PM > Subject: Re: Amy Winehouse RIP njc > > Just saw this news this morning - along with the tragedy in Norway it was the > only thing on the news. Back To Black was and is an amazing record, everytime >I > > hear Amy I think of Bob Murphy because the first time I heard the album was in > > his apartment in Boston. He loved it and constantly sang "Rehab". We spun it >all > > the way to the Full Moon as well as her debut. Her death is of course no > surprise but that makes it none the easier to realize. > 27...geez, that's just 3 years older than my kid. > > Bob > > NP: Fleet Foxes, "The Plains/Bitter Dancer" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 05:00:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Norway njc It's very difficult to broach the subject of something as terrible as the tragedy in Norway. I'm sure there isn't one person here who hasn't heard about it and sometimes words fail, because the subject matter is so awful and painful. Some of us who are on Facebook have expressed our condolences to our Norwegian friends there, many of whom are also members of this list. Some of you who aren't on Facebook might wonder at the fact that it hadn't yet been mentioned here, until Bob Muller raised it in one of his most recent posts. Sometimes an event takes place that is so horrible that anything we can say seems to package it up, trivialize it and then put it on a shelf to be forgotten. There is nothing anyone could say to take away the pain of those now mourning the sudden and completely unexpected loss of loved ones, most of them children. I hope for them that they find some consolation knowing the world mourns with them and that justice is properly served on the one that did this. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:10:18 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Norway njc Beautifully written, Catherine. Thank you Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 09:12:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Norway njc Indeed, a beautifully written, heartfelt piece, Catherine, you are such an expressive, effective writer. I just wish the media would stop making reference to this horrible thing as the "twin" attacks. (pretty obvious what "twin" is referring to). I find it incredibly distasteful to try to make such a comparison. Mags ________________________________ From: Anita G To: Catherine McKay Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 9:10:18 AM Subject: Re: Norway njc Beautifully written, Catherine. Thank you Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 12:56:19 -0400 From: Vince Subject: Norwegian terrorism njc It seems to me the twin attacks being referred to are the two attacks in Oslo on Friday, the bombing which killed 7+ which preceded the slaughter of 87+ on the island. And I found, for myself, the silence here yesterday (and on facebook by listers) very disturbing. If I did not know the good hearts of JMDLers I might have erupted in rage. Yes the event is too much perhaps for words yet when some thirteen-fourteen American students were shot at Columbine we could not keep silent. 87+ Norse teens die and Amy Winehouse's death was the tragedy de jour. As sad as her death was the word tragedy was for what happened in Oslo. Again mindful of the good hearts of JMDLers it was Marie Antoinette surreal here yesterday: ignore the 94 slaughtered, almost all teens, we have lost an entertainer. Who cares about the world, our amusements have been effected. That a Christian fundamentalist right winger who identifies strongly with the English Defense League and is steeped in anti-immigration anti-Muslim "restore the Crusades" philosophy who came from an anti-tax party has done what he has done, worthy of discussion perhaps? The silence here yesterday will forever remain in my thoughts on Amy Winehouse. Yes I have lost family and friends to addition and hers is a talent lost. But to call her death a tragedy with no reference to and no condolence for the Norwegian dead is unfathomable to me. A little "on this day of mourning the loss of so many let us also note..." would have been the right note for me, to declare Winehouse's death a tragedy as if that was the only news item of the day and parents were not waiting to identity their slaughtered dead or await the search for more bodies, ethnic Europeans and Islamic immigrants, all Norse, all slaughtered in the name of opposing diversity and multiculturalism, then I do not understand what tragedy is. Mindful of the good hearts of JMDLers, yesterday's posts did us no honor. I did not post yesterday only because I would have said what I just said with far more anger, which I did not want to do for people I love. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 13:15:47 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc I post very little lately about anything but it is not because the events around the world do not affect me. It is because I am very busy with a 21 month old, stuff to do around the house, a slew of projects going on, etc... I think you answered your own question....you do know the good hearts of the JMDLers. They are there. On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Vince wrote: > It seems to me the twin attacks being referred to are the two attacks in > Oslo on Friday, the bombing which killed 7+ which preceded the slaughter of > 87+ on the island. > > And I found, for myself, the silence here yesterday (and on facebook by > listers) very disturbing. If I did not know the good hearts of JMDLers I > might have erupted in rage. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:30:13 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Am 24.07.2011 18:56, Wie Vince so vortrefflich formulierte: > The silence here yesterday will forever remain in my thoughts on Amy > Winehouse. Yes I have lost family and friends to addition and hers is a > talent lost. But to call her death a tragedy with no reference to and no > condolence for the Norwegian dead is unfathomable to me. First of all, let me say that I did not mention either incident here so far. But why do we have to compare these two and why should anyone be obliged to discuss both? Does it make me heartless if I don't want to discuss a terrible crime with almost 100 people killed on a musician's discussion list? Why should I not react differently to these two stories? I don't watch TV and do not watch the news videos relating to the killings in Norway but have read about them on German and international news sites. It's a a crime whose dimensions are almost beyond my imagination. Nevertheless I felt sad when I learned about Amy Winehouse's death. I really loved her voice, her singing and her songwriting. And with all the stories about her during the last couple of years, her death does not come as a surprise, yet that doesn't make it less tragic. I have spent many hours listening to her songs, so why should I not react in a more emotional way? I cannot judge this as "one person dead" versus "92 people dead" or "it's her own fault" versus "they were innocent". This is no mourning competition. moni k. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 18:49:19 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Vince, I am sorry that you were disturbed by the silence on JMDL regarding the senseless slaughter in Norway, but I would just like to say that you don't know what people's private and personal responses have been to what has happened. Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:59:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc The thing is, I guess we (some of us at least) might be becoming de-sensitized towards hearing about terrorism, since there is so much of it, worldwide. Most of it, granted, we hear about is in the middle east. Nobody expects it in a place such as Norway. Sometimes I lay low on talking too much about the deeds of a mass-murderer, because I don't want to give them what I think some of them want most - that is my time/attention/admission of fear. I could be wrong, but I think that's what most of these lone politically/racially motivated killers want. Not sure what could be done about something like this, beyond grieving the lives lost. To me, any outcry (beyond grief) is lost in the wind, mainly because nobody condones this kind of thing - so in a sense there's no one to rail against. Amy Winehouse was kind of a ticking bomb, too, and we all pretty much knew it. Too bad she only got to make, what, two? albums? Some people destroy others, some destroy themselves. So now lovely Norway gets dipped in some of the same sh_t as the rest of the world. It does make me sad. Em ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:17:13 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Vince, My response was immediate upon hearing the Norwegian news, but not to the JMDL, whose purpose is still specific I hope to discussing Joni Mitchell, but to Oddmund Kaarevik in Oslo, a JMDL member and friend. Dave On Jul 24, 2011, at 10:49 AM, Anita G wrote: > Vince, I am sorry that you were disturbed by the silence on JMDL > regarding the senseless slaughter in Norway, but I would just like to > say that you don't know what people's private and personal responses > have been to what has happened. > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:42:50 -0400 From: Vince Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Anita, I know that here, what was the "tragedy" being mourned and what was unmentioned. And that one was so noteworthy while the other went unmentioned despite being much much greater in horror, in its implications, in its slaughter of innocents in the home of the Peace Prize and one of our posters... that is tragedy. Yes, a shame Winehose will never make another record although one suspects her estate will do well. Tragedy is 87+ teenagers never having a chance at doing anything, dying seeing their friends die. That is tragedy. Not Winehose, in context. On Jul 24, 2011 1:49 PM, "Anita G" wrote: > Vince, I am sorry that you were disturbed by the silence on JMDL > regarding the senseless slaughter in Norway, but I would just like to > say that you don't know what people's private and personal responses > have been to what has happened. > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:04:46 -0400 From: Victor Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Since it's already been shown that whether or not someone posted about a given topic is an extremely poor way to judge said person's response to said topic what is the point of dragging this on? I imagine there's a whole lot going on in people's lives that does not get posted here, let alone all the people who simply read and never post period. And, for that matter, people can write anything online and act completely contrary to what they wrote. Everyone deals with tragedy in their own way and they don't owe anyone an explanation. Silence doesn't necessarily mean apathy...silence can mean deep meditation. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Vince wrote: > Anita, I know that here, what was the "tragedy" being mourned and what was > unmentioned. And that one was so noteworthy while the other went unmentioned > despite being much much greater in horror, in its implications, in its > slaughter of innocents in the home of the Peace Prize and one of our > posters... that is tragedy. Yes, a shame Winehose will never make another > record although one suspects her estate will do well. Tragedy is 87+ > teenagers never having a chance at doing anything, dying seeing their > friends die. That is tragedy. Not Winehose, in context. > On Jul 24, 2011 1:49 PM, "Anita G" wrote: >> Vince, I am sorry that you were disturbed by the silence on JMDL >> regarding the senseless slaughter in Norway, but I would just like to >> say that you don't know what people's private and personal responses >> have been to what has happened. >> Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 12:06:10 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Winehouse's death, as many have already said, was not something that was particularly unexpected. That doesn't make it any less surprising or sad. The tragedy in Norway is something completely different. Shocking, horrifying, difficult to comprehend or digest. A reaction to Amy Winehouse's death was not something too many people had to think about too much to post a reaction. Perhaps the horrible events in Norway required a day for the shock to wear off a bit. I'm sure many felt numbed by it. Catherine wrote a beautiful post today that I'm sure expresses most of our feelings quite well. I would imagine she needed some time to formulate her thoughts and process her reactions. I suspect we are all still in a bit of a state of shock. Some things are perhaps too overwhelming for us humans to absorb sufficiently before we can express coherent thoughts about them. Or maybe people were waiting to hear from Oddmund to gage what might or might not be an appropriate response. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Vince Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 11:42 AM To: Anita G Cc: joni@smoe.org ; Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Anita, I know that here, what was the "tragedy" being mourned and what was unmentioned. And that one was so noteworthy while the other went unmentioned despite being much much greater in horror, in its implications, in its slaughter of innocents in the home of the Peace Prize and one of our posters... that is tragedy. Yes, a shame Winehose will never make another record although one suspects her estate will do well. Tragedy is 87+ teenagers never having a chance at doing anything, dying seeing their friends die. That is tragedy. Not Winehose, in context. On Jul 24, 2011 1:49 PM, "Anita G" wrote: > Vince, I am sorry that you were disturbed by the silence on JMDL > regarding the senseless slaughter in Norway, but I would just like to > say that you don't know what people's private and personal responses > have been to what has happened. > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 20:12:39 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Vince, it seems to me, and what I want to challenge is your assumption that you know what tragedy was being mourned and what wasn't. You don't. Anita On 24 July 2011 19:42, Vince wrote: > Anita, I know that here, what was the "tragedy" being mourned and what was > unmentioned. And that one was so noteworthy while the other went unmentioned > despite being much much greater in horror, in its implications, in its > slaughter of innocents in the home of the Peace Prize and one of our > posters... that is tragedy. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:19:16 -0400 From: Vince Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Anita, I know what was posted here and what was not and on that I have commented, not on the private thoughts in people's hearts. Yesterday's posts are what they are. Attack me for what I did not say, the defensiveness is surely informative. On Jul 24, 2011 3:12 PM, "Anita G" wrote: > Vince, it seems to me, and what I want to challenge is your assumption > that you know what tragedy was being mourned and what wasn't. You > don't. > Anita > > On 24 July 2011 19:42, Vince wrote: >> Anita, I know that here, what was the "tragedy" being mourned and what was >> unmentioned. And that one was so noteworthy while the other went unmentioned >> despite being much much greater in horror, in its implications, in its >> slaughter of innocents in the home of the Peace Prize and one of our >> posters... that is tragedy. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:44:30 -0400 From: Victor Subject: Norwegian Tragedy NJC There's been some absurd discussions in the past 12 years I've been on this list...this one's up there. Only on the JMDL. Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 13:22:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Victor > To: Vince > Cc: Anita G ; "joni@smoe.org" ; Moni >Kellermann > Sent: Sun, July 24, 2011 3:04:46 PM > Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc > > > Everyone deals with tragedy in their own way and they don't owe anyone an >explanation. Silence doesn't necessarily mean apathy...silence can mean deep >meditation. > > Yup. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 22:07:45 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Vince, I am sorry if you experienced my challenge about the assumptions you seemed to be making as an attack. That was not my intention. I wanted to draw to your attention that the picture was much wider. Mark seems to have found better words than mine. I am sorry if you felt attacked. Anita On 24 July 2011 20:19, Vince wrote: Attack me for what I did not say, ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 16:06:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc So do I get bonus points for being the first one to mention it? Truth is, my day started as it usually always does, eating breakfast on the 21st floor of the Marriott. At the next table was a guy from Sweden, talking to me as if I was his closest friend (this was the first time I'd seen him) very emotional and distraught. I had to work to fight back tears as I ate breakfast and watched as the facts unfolded before me on CNN. As soon as I got to work I checked in with my best friend Peter from Helsinki, Finland. He hadn't heard the news yet and got on the internet to check it out. He was dumbstruck and 3-4 times during the day came back to my office to update me. I understood that the whole world, including my friends at home and on the JMDL, were deeply affected as I was by this horrible news. I didn't need to see posts here to know that was the case. After all, we are some of the most sensitive folks on the planet. The sadness was felt in the silence. On a happier note, let me share a funny and cool story - on Saturday I went to the Dumpling House for lunch with my Chinese friend Yan. Chinese friends are the best because you can go anywhere and not have a language barrier. Anyway, we had lunch (pickled fungus, jelly noodle, dumplings) and as we walked back to the office the Korean fusion restaurant was playing "Stairway to Heaven" over the loudspeaker. I started singing it and told Yan that before the night was over I would sing it on stage with a live band. As it happened, a bunch of us had bought tickets to the 1st birthday party at the Collage Bar at the Traders Hotel. 120 RMB for all the food and drink you wanted until 9PM + live bands. A Filipino band that plays at the Hard Rock in Beijing was there, and in their 2nd set they asked if anybody wanted to get on stage and sing with them. Well, you can finish the story yourself; I volunteered (not shy about singing as all of you know) and requested Stairway. The crowd cheered, and really went crazy when I turned on the Robert Plant impression on the climax party "And as we wind on down the road...." and etc. The guitarist totally nailed it as well and I felt like Babe Ruth after he pointed to the bleachers and hit a home run right to that spot on the next pitch. And yes, photos and video exists, so I've been told. So there's a little duality post for y'all, sponsored by the QUEEN of duality, Miss Joni Mitchell. Bob - ----- Original Message ---- From: Anita G To: Vince Cc: Moni Kellermann ; "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Mon, July 25, 2011 5:07:45 AM Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Vince, I am sorry if you experienced my challenge about the assumptions you seemed to be making as an attack. That was not my intention. I wanted to draw to your attention that the picture was much wider. Mark seems to have found better words than mine. I am sorry if you felt attacked. Anita On 24 July 2011 20:19, Vince wrote: Attack me for what I did not say, ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:28:28 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc Yes Mark I agree. When I heard news of the explosion I was saddened, but when I heard about the Youth Camp----I was absolutely stunned, and when the death toll reached above 80, it was incomprehensible followed by deep deep sadness for mankind. They were just kids----JUST KIDS. One person, one very sick person can cause so much grief and change so many people's lives forever. And to think under Norwegian law---he might get only 21 years in prison. What would be proper punishment for something so horrific to humankind? How does a nation and mankind heal from this? I need to get away to someplace quiet for awhile. I'm sick. peace~~gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark" To: "Vince" ; "Anita G" Cc: ; "Moni Kellermann" Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc > Winehouse's death, as many have already said, was not something that was > particularly unexpected. That doesn't make it any less surprising or sad. > > The tragedy in Norway is something completely different. Shocking, > horrifying, difficult to comprehend or digest. > > A reaction to Amy Winehouse's death was not something too many people had > to think about too much to post a reaction. > > Perhaps the horrible events in Norway required a day for the shock to wear > off a bit. I'm sure many felt numbed by it. Catherine wrote a beautiful > post today that I'm sure expresses most of our feelings quite well. I > would imagine she needed some time to formulate her thoughts and process > her reactions. I suspect we are all still in a bit of a state of shock. > > Some things are perhaps too overwhelming for us humans to absorb > sufficiently before we can express coherent thoughts about them. > > Or maybe people were waiting to hear from Oddmund to gage what might or > might not be an appropriate response. > > Mark in Seattle > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vince > Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 11:42 AM > To: Anita G > Cc: joni@smoe.org ; Moni Kellermann > Subject: Re: Norwegian terrorism njc > > Anita, I know that here, what was the "tragedy" being mourned and what was > unmentioned. And that one was so noteworthy while the other went > unmentioned > despite being much much greater in horror, in its implications, in its > slaughter of innocents in the home of the Peace Prize and one of our > posters... that is tragedy. Yes, a shame Winehose will never make another > record although one suspects her estate will do well. Tragedy is 87+ > teenagers never having a chance at doing anything, dying seeing their > friends die. That is tragedy. Not Winehose, in context. > On Jul 24, 2011 1:49 PM, "Anita G" wrote: >> Vince, I am sorry that you were disturbed by the silence on JMDL >> regarding the senseless slaughter in Norway, but I would just like to >> say that you don't know what people's private and personal responses >> have been to what has happened. >> Anita ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #215 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------