From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #213 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Saturday, July 23 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 213 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Nietzsche [Catherine McKay ] Re: angry Joni [Catherine McKay ] Spotify - njc [Gerald Notaro ] Re: Nietzsche [Lc Stanley ] angry Joni? [betsyblue82@gmail.com] RE: Nietzsche [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: Nietzsche [Anita G ] A minor miracle? Tickets and Nietzsche ["kbhla" ] If your band wants to play Jazz Fest in New Orleans [Michael Paz ] Re: Nietzsche [Catherine McKay ] Re: Nietzsche [Anita G ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #200 [Stdoherty ] Re: DED ["Cassy" ] RE: DED [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Sharing a Great Article ["Cassy" ] Re: DED [Bob Muller ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 04:23:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Nietzsche Well, honestly, this one stood out for me. I wonder if that's where Joni got the idea for "Dancin' Clown"? > > You need chaos in your soul to give birth > to a dancing star. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 04:25:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: angry Joni He doens't exactly sound like a barrel of laughs to me, having read those quotes that Laura provided. Maybe something got lost in translation, and cocaine brought it back. > >From: Rob Wh >To: Catherine McKay ; Mark ; >joni >Sent: Fri, July 22, 2011 2:10:13 AM >Subject: Re: angry Joni > > >I tried to read Nietzsche once and gave up: life's just too damn short and one >must make choices. In the 1979 Rolling Stone interview with Cameron Crowe Joni >recalled bonding quite quickly and easily with Jaco because, like her, he >recognized that Nietzsche was funny. Presumably he's one of those German >philosophers who goes down best with white powder ... >Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 08:02:02 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Spotify - njc Anyone Spotify yet? You will! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 06:44:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Lc Stanley Subject: Re: Nietzsche Catherine wrote: Well, honestly, this one stood out for me. I wonder if that's where Joni got the idea for "Dancin' Clown"? > > You need chaos in yourB soul to give birth > to a dancing star. Hi Catherine, Here is what Nietzche says about antagonism towards dancing clowns: "I have never understood the art of arousing antagonism (and for this, too, I may thank my incomparable father), even when it seemed to me most ,worth while to do so. However unchristian it may seem, I do not even bear any ill-feeling towards myself. Examine my life as you may, you will find but seldom-perhaps indeed only once-any trace of some one's having shown me ill-will; but you might perhaps discover too many traces of good-will. My experiences even with those with whom every other man's relations have been disastrous, speak without exception in their favor; I tame every bear, I can make even clowns behave well." (taken from "Why I am So Wise" in Nietzche's "Ecce Homo," B http://nietzsche.holtof.com/Nietzsche_ecce_homo/eh1.html) Here is another paragraph of Nietzche for those who are curious about him: Thus Spoke ZarathustraB (Prologue, B'B'3b4): "I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him? b& All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood, and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is ape to man? A laughing stock or painful embarrassment. And man shall be that to overman: a laughingstock or painful embarrassment. You have made your way from worm to man, and much in you is still worm. Once you were apes, and even now, too, man is more ape than any ape.... The overman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the overmanB shall beB the meaning of the earth.... Man is a rope, tied between beast and overmanba rope over an abyss b& what is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end." > > >Nietzsche'sB "Will to Power" philosophy reminds me of Joni's album Shine. B It basically professes that power is the motive of all nature including human nature. B It does seem to be in keeping with the fact that despite our will to survive we kill the earth and ourselves in the process of satisfying our will to power. > > >Love, >Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:06:21 +0000 From: betsyblue82@gmail.com Subject: angry Joni? I never thought of Joni as being angry on any entire album. On DED, in particular, she seems rather maternal. She was finally more worried about what was going on in the world outside herself. In retrospect, the theme of the album may have been sharing her perspective on life with her newly adult daughter. Or maybe it's her voice. Even early on, her alto was gorgeous, but on DED her lowest range was opening up in a really beautiful way, while her higher register was still mostly intact. Her singing skills had improved a lot since the early 70s, too. She certainly wasn't reaching for the top notes in a displeasing way or gasping and inserting H's before her vowels to cover, as she had to later on. (Singers-there's a term for this, isn't there?) Or maybe it's just me. After all, I was a toddler when DED was released and Joni is my grandmother's age (but way cooler because she wasn't saddled with an ankle-biter). So DED was a kind of Grimm's Fairy Tales in my house. I haven't read Nietzsche either, and I barely know about Robespierre, but Joni's songs have lead me straight to wikipedia more times than I can count. That's more than you can say for 99% of artists. - -Betsy NP: Funhouse (Pink) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:09:23 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Nietzsche Thanks Laura. These are my favorites: - -But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful! - -What is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Lc Stanley Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 2:08 AM To: Joni List Subject: Nietzsche Here are some Nietzsche quotes for you. B I thought of Joni especially when I read the last one one since she told theB L.A. TimesB in 2000 when asked about pop music:B "I think it is in a horrible state. I don't even think of it as music anymore, but just the 'ic' business. It's 'icky' because the 'muse' has gone out of it. The divinity that it once contained is gone. B Enjoy! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 17:16:02 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Nietzsche Well, I'm channelling Julie Andrews and the 'Sound of Music' with: "When you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back at you." Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:24:52 -0700 From: "kbhla" Subject: A minor miracle? Tickets and Nietzsche Chris, There are still bench seats in the back available. One of my neighbors picked up a couple tickets at the Bowl box office yesterday. I don't think there are any more tickets in our group seating but it's always possible that one could later become available. It would be fantastic if you (and Anita) could join us! Kakki P.S. Loved the Nietzsche quotes, Laura! I also think he had a sense of humor ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:12:50 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: If your band wants to play Jazz Fest in New Orleans So many of you are so worthy to play the fest. If you are interested here is where to apply. Best paz Festival Productions, the people who bring you Jazz Fest each year, have a couple of announcements. First, if you'd like to be considered for Jazz Fest this year, you need to apply by October 1. The application process can be found online here. http://www.nojazzfest.com/apply/ Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 18:25:58 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Spotify - njc Their subs drove me insane, so I won't. Anita On 22 July 2011 13:02, Gerald Notaro wrote: > Anyone Spotify yet? You will! > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:09:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Nietzsche The abyss is alive... with the staring of abysses. Or maybe something sung by the Abbess, like, "How do you solve a problem like Maria"? You don't, you just stare into an abyss. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Anita G > To: Susan Tierney McNamara > Cc: Lc Stanley ; Joni List ; Catherine >McKay > Sent: Fri, July 22, 2011 12:16:02 PM > Subject: Re: Nietzsche > > Well, I'm channelling Julie Andrews and the 'Sound of Music' with: > > "When you stare into the > abyss the abyss stares back at you." > > Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 19:42:04 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Nietzsche Picture shiny, happy young woman with bleached white smile, bursting into: "I am sixteen, going on seventeen, I know that i'm Naaaiiiiveee" Grumpy Old Woman looking suspiciously like Anita growls: 'Get over yourself. Go stare at the Abyss.' On 22 July 2011 19:09, Catherine McKay wrote: > The abyss is alive... with the staring of abysses. > > Or maybe something sung by the Abbess, like, "How do you solve a problem like > Maria"? You don't, you just stare into an abyss. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:57:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Stdoherty Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #200 You'd get no debate from me. I think it's a great album ... not just of her 80s albums ... this one stands on it's own. While it's not For the Blue Hejira ... it's great. Maybe I have bad taste, or maybe my. age is showing, but I love Dog Eat Dog (the lbum and the song). Good Friends isn't my favorite, but it's still good. The est of the songs are great. How come everyone thought it sucked so much? Of the 0s albums, it was even better than WTRF, while CMIARS was quite uneven. I'm feeling feisty. Who wants to debate??? - - -Betsy - -----Original Message----- From: onlyJMDL Digest To: onlyjoni-digest Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:08 am Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #200 onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, July 20 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 200 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - ------- JMDL Covers [Sam Stone ] Re: JMDL Covers [Gerald Notaro ] Re: Joni sighting in Saskatoon. [Catherine McKay ] Joni's Pop and Uncle Gordon [betsyblue82@gmail.com] RE: Joni's Pop and Uncle Gordon [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: PHJB ON David Letterman July 19 with Del McCoury [T Peckham ] Re: DED confession [Jimmy Stewart ] Re: DED confession [Bob Muller ] Re: DED confession ["rflynn@frontiernet.net"] Re: DED confession [betsyblue82@gmail.com] Re: Joni's Pop and Uncle Gordon [Bob Muller ] Jonifest UK 2011! [Catherine McKay ] Re: DED confession ["Mark" ] Thanks for the JMDL 2011 compilation ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ubject: JMDL Covers Hi everyone, I was wondering how to access this year's covers set. Can someone help me? Thanks! - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:05:31 -0400 rom: Gerald Notaro ubject: Re: JMDL Covers Sam, The link is sent by David Blackburn to those who donate to the JMDL ite to keep it running. Jerry n Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 7:41 AM, Sam Stone wrote: > Hi everyone, I was wondering how to access this year's covers set. Can someone help me? Thanks! - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 07:48:19 -0700 (PDT) rom: Catherine McKay ubject: Re: Joni sighting in Saskatoon. I think that other cultures are much kinder than ours are in some ways. Possibly the isolation into tiny nuclear family units that resulted from people spreading out across the world because of the invention of automobiles and so on has meant that we no longer have large families living close together who can care for ach other and everything and everyone becomes warehoused. This is a subject hat's too big (for me, at least) to tackle (or I simply lack the will to go here), and it's complex. n the other hand, I can hear Bob Murphy telling me that no, I'm really not just forgetting things; I really am senile, and it's because I'm so OOOOOOLLLLDDD! I also wondered, as others have, whether Bill Anderson might just be dreading he thought that he's being asked to blow out 100 candles in one go. (And I also wondered, why are they celebrating his birthday early? He really isn't 100 yet!0 ----- Original Message ---- From: Anita G To: Catherine McKay Cc: Rob Wh ; Les Irvin ; Joni List Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 1:54:45 PM Subject: Re: Joni sighting in Saskatoon. I have heard that there is a culture (ironically,can't remember who :~))) who don't have a word for dementia. They seem to accept simply that a person is in a certain stage of their life. Therefore, to take us as examples, Anita or Catherine would be often forgetting things, or sometimes confused, but not having something called 'dementia'. I think I would find that approach much easier to deal with. It seems more human and respectful. It's like people would be saying 'It's still Anita, but older and with some of the difficulties that ageing brings', rather than 'She's got dementia.' Anita - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:54:00 +0000 rom: betsyblue82@gmail.com ubject: Joni's Pop and Uncle Gordon Does anyone know how old Bill Anderson's brother is? He must be younger, but till in his 80s or 90s. Joni has longevity on both sides of her family, lucky or all of us. "He looked so cute in his uniform." -Tea Leaf Prophecy "Papa's faith was in people" -Let the Wind Carry Me Were there any other songs in which Joni mentioned her dad? I wonder how he ealt with the conflict between his wife and daughter. He (or the Papa haracter) did to speak up on LTWCM, but this song doesn't seem to be set in a pecific time. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I recall hearing that Myrtle riticized Joni's dress for her Carnegie Hall debut and Bill told her to "leave he girl alone". I can certainly understand how she would incorporate a later ncident into her teen experiences, as any time you are with your parents they an make you feel like a child. - - -Betsy ent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:11:48 -0400 rom: Susan Tierney McNamara ubject: RE: Joni's Pop and Uncle Gordon Another Bill mention in a Joni song: "... and a man who owns a store ..." from Cactus Tree ... - - -----Original Message----- rom: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of etsyblue82@gmail.com ent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:54 AM o: joni@smoe.org ubject: Joni's Pop and Uncle Gordon Does anyone know how old Bill Anderson's brother is? He must be younger, but till in his 80s or 90s. Joni has longevity on both sides of her family, lucky or all of us. "He looked so cute in his uniform." -Tea Leaf Prophecy "Papa's faith was in people" -Let the Wind Carry Me Were there any other songs in which Joni mentioned her dad? I wonder how he ealt with the conflict between his wife and daughter. He (or the Papa haracter) did to speak up on LTWCM, but this song doesn't seem to be set in a pecific time. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I recall hearing that Myrtle riticized Joni's dress for her Carnegie Hall debut and Bill told her to "leave he girl alone". I can certainly understand how she would incorporate a later ncident into her teen experiences, as any time you are with your parents they an make you feel like a child. - - -Betsy ent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:30:00 -0400 rom: Michael Paz ubject: PHJB ON David Letterman July 19 with Del McCoury Hi Everyone atch for us on the Letterman show tonight. I will se sitting in the audience. will have to you. Luv Paz ichael Paz ichael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager reservation Hall Jazz Band ttp://www.preservationhall.com - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:44:03 -0400 rom: Victor ubject: Re: PHJB ON David Letterman July 19 with Del McCoury Synchronicity...just this very moment I was looking up Preservation Hall Jazz nd then voila, your message appeared. On our way back from Sarasota...will try o tune in. There were no Joni sightings at the beach in Siesta Key. Victor Sent from my iPhone On Jul 19, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Michael Paz wrote: > Hi Everyone Watch for us on the Letterman show tonight. I will se sitting in the audience. I will have to you. Luv Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 19:47:11 +0000 rom: betsyblue82@gmail.com ubject: DED confession Maybe I have bad taste, or maybe my. age is showing, but I love Dog Eat Dog (the lbum and the song). Good Friends isn't my favorite, but it's still good. The est of the songs are great. How come everyone thought it sucked so much? Of the 0s albums, it was even better than WTRF, while CMIARS was quite uneven. I'm feeling feisty. Who wants to debate??? - - -Betsy P: Fire and Wood, Luciana Souza ent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:25:39 -0400 rom: Gerald Notaro ubject: Re: DED confession The only reason I don't like it is because Bob Muller does :-) Jerry n Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:47 PM, wrote: > Maybe I have bad taste, or maybe my. age is showing, but I love Dog Eat Dog (the album and the song). Good Friends isn't my favorite, but it's still good. The rest of the songs are great. How come everyone thought it sucked so much? Of the 80s albums, it was even better than WTRF, while CMIARS was quite uneven. I'm feeling feisty. Who wants to debate??? -Betsy NP: Fire and Wood, Luciana Souza Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:24:01 -0500 rom: T Peckham ubject: Re: PHJB ON David Letterman July 19 with Del McCoury Thanks for the heads-up! But why won't you be backstage? Say hey to Biff for e--he's my fave. :^) On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Michael Paz wrote: > Hi Everyone Watch for us on the Letterman show tonight. I will se sitting in the audience. I will have to you. Luv Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com - - -- An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." ---Louise Bourgeois - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:33:41 -0700 rom: Dave Blackburn ubject: Re: DED confession Betsy, I think there were several things that made DED grate on some fans: the complete bsence of Joni's guitar or piano playing is one, the very processed "canned" roduction style which was the antithesis of the earthy and inviting sound of er earlier albums, the influence of a lot of new "cooks" (Klein, Dolby, hipley) when there had been only Joni and Henry Lewy for almost every album rior to WTRF. But most of all the angry political stance of the lyrics, lthough completely justified of course by the state of the world in 1985, was ot what most people wanted to hear from the songwriter who had been their aesthetic nerve center" growing up. It definitely contained some good (not brilliant) songs and once we heard them layed on acoustic piano that was readily apparent, but they were hard to get to ehind the drum machines, delay lines and Fairlight programming. To be fair, retty much all pop in 84/85 suffered from similar production choices, but we ll hold Joni Mitchell to a higher standard of innovation and here she was retty flagrantly trying to do what was in vogue at the time. When she returned to her modern acoustic production style on Night Ride Home and I it was as if she had got the pop gloss thing out of her system and taken ack control of her music. Dave n Jul 19, 2011, at 12:47 PM, betsyblue82@gmail.com wrote: > Maybe I have bad taste, or maybe my. age is showing, but I love Dog Eat Dog the album and the song). Good Friends isn't my favorite, but it's still good. he rest of the songs are great. How come everyone thought it sucked so much? Of he 80s albums, it was even better than WTRF, while CMIARS was quite uneven. I'm feeling feisty. Who wants to debate??? -Betsy NP: Fire and Wood, Luciana Souza Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 19:49:05 -0400 rom: Jimmy Stewart ubject: Re: DED confession That, plus it's Rick Hobb's favorite :-) ....gesendet von meinem iPhone On Jul 19, 2011, at 4:25 PM, Gerald Notaro wrote: > The only reason I don't like it is because Bob Muller does :-) Jerry On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:47 PM, wrote: > Maybe I have bad taste, or maybe my. age is showing, but I love Dog Eat Dog > (the album and the song). Good Friends isn't my favorite, but it's still > good. The rest of the songs are great. How come everyone thought it sucked > so much? Of the 80s albums, it was even better than WTRF, while CMIARS was > quite uneven. > > I'm feeling feisty. Who wants to debate??? > > -Betsy > NP: Fire and Wood, Luciana Souza > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:53:33 -0700 (PDT) rom: Bob Muller ubject: Re: DED confession Man, you totally nailed it on the head as far as I'm concerned, Dave. I was APPY to hear DED and glad when it had come out - after all, Joni had spoiled us previously by releasing a new album every year for a while there, and then a - -year drought. I thought CMIARS took that concept a step further with all of he guest collaborations (and of course Dancing Clown) and was the nadir of her areer. As you said, NRH was when she dumped those forced 'enhancements' and eturned to her own way and was much stronger for it. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Ruby's Arms" - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 19:58:18 -0400 rom: "rflynn@frontiernet.net" ubject: Re: DED confession Production values, absolutely. Sick of Synthesizers (SOS). Politics, well it wasn't the anger, many of us were plenty angry. It was the ack of nuance when most of us had come to expect more lyrically from Joni. implistic slogans rather than real political analysis (even given the onfines of the popular song). WTRF had great moments. Not so much DED. Richard Flynn onnected by DROID on Verizon Wireless - - -----Original message----- rom: Dave Blackburn o: betsyblue82@gmail.com c: joni@smoe.org ent: Tue, Jul 19, 2011 23:33:41 GMT+00:00 ubject: Re: DED confession Betsy, I think there were several things that made DED grate on some fans: the omplete absence of Joni's guitar or piano playing is one, the very rocessed "canned" production style which was the antithesis of the earthy nd inviting sound of her earlier albums, the influence of a lot of new cooks" (Klein, Dolby, Shipley) when there had been only Joni and Henry Lewy or almost every album prior to WTRF. But most of all the angry political tance of the lyrics, although completely justified of course by the state f the world in 1985, was not what most people wanted to hear from the ongwriter who had been their "aesthetic nerve center" growing up. It definitely contained some good (not brilliant) songs and once we heard hem played on acoustic piano that was readily apparent, but they were hard o get to behind the drum machines, delay lines and Fairlight programming. o be fair, pretty much all pop in 84/85 suffered from similar production hoices, but we all hold Joni Mitchell to a higher standard of innovation nd here she was pretty flagrantly trying to do what was in vogue at the ime. When she returned to her modern acoustic production style on Night Ride Home nd TI it was as if she had got the pop gloss thing out of her system and aken back control of her music. Dave n Jul 19, 2011, at 12:47 PM, betsyblue82@gmail.com wrote: > Maybe I have bad taste, or maybe my. age is showing, but I love Dog Eat og (the album and the song). Good Friends isn't my favorite, but it's still ood. The rest of the songs are great. How come everyone thought it sucked o much? Of the 80s albums, it was even better than WTRF, while CMIARS was uite uneven. I'm feeling feisty. Who wants to debate??? -Betsy NP: Fire and Wood, Luciana Souza Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 00:04:16 +0000 rom: betsyblue82@gmail.com ubject: Re: DED confession Dave said: "I think there were several things that made DED grate on some fans: he complete absence of Joni's guitar or piano playing is one, the very rocessed "canned" production style which was the antithesis of the earthy and nviting sound of her earlier albums" That is so helpful! Those 80s production values will always be near and dear to y heart, though. Bob said "CMIARS took that concept a step further with all of the guest ollaborations (and of course Dancing Clown) and was the nadir of her career." Dancin' Clown? I adore it. Snakes and Ladders is another story. I can't nderstand a freakin' word, even after reading the lyrics. Unrelated question: Where can I get piano sheet music for Paprika Plains? - - -Betsy ------Original Message------ rom: Bob Muller o: Dave Blackburn o: betsyblue82@gmail.com c: joni@smoe.org ubject: Re: DED confession ent: Jul 19, 2011 4:53 PM Man, you totally nailed it on the head as far as I'm concerned, Dave. I was APPY to hear DED and glad when it had come out - after all, Joni had spoiled us previously by releasing a new album every year for a while there, and then a - -year drought. I thought CMIARS took that concept a step further with all of he guest collaborations (and of course Dancing Clown) and was the nadir of her areer. As you said, NRH was when she dumped those forced 'enhancements' and eturned to her own way and was much stronger for it. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Ruby's Arms" ent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:25:52 -0700 (PDT) rom: Bob Muller ubject: Re: Joni's Pop and Uncle Gordon You're a mean old Daddy but I like you" (kidding) ob P: Willie Nelson/Wynton Marsalis, "Busted" - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:43:00 -0700 (PDT) rom: Catherine McKay ubject: Jonifest UK 2011! There is still room at the inn! Is there anyone out there who would like to attend Jonifest 2011 in the UK? There are still spaces available and you would be very welcome! The fest happens August 26-28 at Holycombe House of Healing, Whichford, England. For info go to http://www.holycombe.com/ then click on "events etc" on the eft-hand side, from there, go down about 1/4 of the way down to August 26. Please contact Lucy Hone (lucy_hone@hotmail.com) if you would like to attend. ring your guitar, your kazoo, your oboe, yourself! - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 20:33:07 -0700 rom: "Mark" ubject: Re: DED confession I can't say that 'Dog Eat Dog' is my favorite Joni Mitchell recording lthough I think there are one or two people out there who would say it is heir favorite. While I agree that the production and lyrical content of 'Dog Eat Dog' are hat put off most of Joni's fans, I don't agree that the production was an ttempt to fit in with the pop music of the day. For me, anyway, the lectronic 'canned' sounds fit the content of the record. The sound of this ecord is the sound of a mechanical, electrified nation full of tension, reed and self obsession. If you're writing about the 'Shiny Toys' of a ommercialized, consumer driven society, why shouldn't the music be shiny nd slick? If you want to convey the image 'while madmen sit up building ombs and making laws and bars' and 'deep in the night appetites find us elease us and bind us' why not use mechanical sounds that evoke machinery nd dragging chains? Personally, I don't think the songs would have had the ame impact if she had been playing acoustic guitar and piano. She was riting her view of a harsh, materialistic, mechanized, 'dog eat dog' world nd I think the music fits her mood. I also think it was natural for her, s an artist, to experiment with the contemporary tools of her medium. To e, 'Dog Eat Dog' doesn't sound like anything else that came out of the 80s ut then I don't know all of the music that came out of the 80s. From istening to the superior transfer from the original master tapes in the Geffen Box Set', I hear all kinds of nuances and subtleties that I hadn't oticed in the original cd pressing. I think this was the first of Joni's lbums that was released after the advent of the cd. I remember refusing to uy it until the cd version was released. I think most of us know that here have been some pretty shoddy jobs of putting music on cd, especially hen the technology was new. As far as the lyrics failing to convey political analysis, Joni is no more a olitical analyst than Bob Dylan or the members of Jefferson Airplane or any ther recording artists who made so-called 'protest' music back in the 60s. wouldn't expect in depth political analysis from her. I do think there re some nice turns of phrase on 'Dog Eat Dog' and I don't see them as logans, simplistic or otherwise. Like all of the rest of her records, 'Dog at Dog' expresses Joni's thoughts and feelings. This record just happens o be about different thoughts and feelings than what people were accustomed o hearing from her. Mark in Seattle - - -----Original Message----- rom: rflynn@frontiernet.net ent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 4:58 PM o: Dave Blackburn ; betsyblue82@gmail.com c: joni@smoe.org ubject: Re: DED confession Production values, absolutely. Sick of Synthesizers (SOS). Politics, well it wasn't the anger, many of us were plenty angry. It was the ack of nuance when most of us had come to expect more lyrically from Joni. implistic slogans rather than real political analysis (even given the onfines of the popular song). WTRF had great moments. Not so much DED. Richard Flynn onnected by DROID on Verizon Wireless - - -----Original message----- rom: Dave Blackburn o: betsyblue82@gmail.com c: joni@smoe.org ent: Tue, Jul 19, 2011 23:33:41 GMT+00:00 ubject: Re: DED confession Betsy, I think there were several things that made DED grate on some fans: the omplete absence of Joni's guitar or piano playing is one, the very rocessed "canned" production style which was the antithesis of the earthy nd inviting sound of her earlier albums, the influence of a lot of new cooks" (Klein, Dolby, Shipley) when there had been only Joni and Henry Lewy or almost every album prior to WTRF. But most of all the angry political tance of the lyrics, although completely justified of course by the state f the world in 1985, was not what most people wanted to hear from the ongwriter who had been their "aesthetic nerve center" growing up. It definitely contained some good (not brilliant) songs and once we heard hem played on acoustic piano that was readily apparent, but they were hard o get to behind the drum machines, delay lines and Fairlight programming. o be fair, pretty much all pop in 84/85 suffered from similar production hoices, but we all hold Joni Mitchell to a higher standard of innovation nd here she was pretty flagrantly trying to do what was in vogue at the ime. When she returned to her modern acoustic production style on Night Ride Home nd TI it was as if she had got the pop gloss thing out of her system and aken back control of her music. Dave n Jul 19, 2011, at 12:47 PM, betsyblue82@gmail.com wrote: > Maybe I have bad taste, or maybe my. age is showing, but I love Dog Eat og (the album and the song). Good Friends isn't my favorite, but it's still ood. The rest of the songs are great. How come everyone thought it sucked o much? Of the 80s albums, it was even better than WTRF, while CMIARS was uite uneven. I'm feeling feisty. Who wants to debate??? -Betsy NP: Fire and Wood, Luciana Souza Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 23:40:36 -0400 rom: "Jim L'Hommedieu" ubject: Thanks for the JMDL 2011 compilation I'm enjoying the 2011 JMDL compilation collection. Thanks to everyone ho contributed music, mastered tracks, built the website, and donated o the cause. It's cool to hear familiar voices and a few new ones. I ould donate anyway but to have some fresh music to listen to is a great onus. Thank you. Jim L'Hommedieu - ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2011 #200 ******************************** - ------- ost messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org nsubscribe by clicking here: ailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:40:24 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: DED From: Catherine McKay <<< I'm enjoying this discussion too. So many different takes and opinions, with some loving it and some hating it, and some just thinking, "Meh!" about the whole thing. >>> So... Who would have thought I'd be dragged back this way by Dog Eat Dog? Perhaps a few of you might have guessed after seeing me do a bad rendition of "Tax Free" in Idyllwild (perhaps with a bit more than 10 minutes rehearsal time it could have been more... something) with Bob as the preacher and Dave on guitar - They were brilliant. One of my favorite Joni songs. I have always had a soft-spot for Dog Eat Dog. Not one of Joni's masterpieces for sure but an LP that found it's way to my turntable time after time as I analyzed the lyrics and came back to a socially conscious mindset after years of selfish over indulgence in cocaine-fueled ennui. I've written about DED (Sorry Catherine) before so I won't go into too much detail but I had to weigh in as a big fan of DED. Warmly, Cassy NP: Joe Sample - Black and White (As Simple As ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:49:12 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: DED I must protest ... I was just listening to your extremely NOT bad rendition of Tax-Free from SoCal 2009 yesterday and I thought it was brilliant!!!! Your voice was beautiful and Bob was amazing as the megalomaniac preacher. Plus Dave nailed the music as usual. I have to say that I never wept so much at a set of songs than when you performed that night at Idyllwild. You are beautiful Cassy!!! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Cassy Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:40 PM To: Catherine McKay; JMDL Subject: Re: DED From: Catherine McKay <<< I'm enjoying this discussion too. So many different takes and opinions, with some loving it and some hating it, and some just thinking, "Meh!" about the whole thing. >>> So... Who would have thought I'd be dragged back this way by Dog Eat Dog? Perhaps a few of you might have guessed after seeing me do a bad rendition of "Tax Free" in Idyllwild (perhaps with a bit more than 10 minutes rehearsal time it could have been more... something) with Bob as the preacher and Dave on guitar - They were brilliant. One of my favorite Joni songs. I have always had a soft-spot for Dog Eat Dog. Not one of Joni's masterpieces for sure but an LP that found it's way to my turntable time after time as I analyzed the lyrics and came back to a socially conscious mindset after years of selfish over indulgence in cocaine-fueled ennui. I've written about DED (Sorry Catherine) before so I won't go into too much detail but I had to weigh in as a big fan of DED. Warmly, Cassy NP: Joe Sample - Black and White (As Simple As ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:55:18 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Sharing a Great Article I thought since I am here I might as well share the following article for those of you who may never have read it, itbs one of the better reads regarding what is arguably Jonibs best song bAmelia.b http://www.slate.com/id/2180012/nav/tap3/ Re-reading this also reminded me of the fantastic series 33-1/3 which still has volumes being published: http://33third.blogspot.com/p/complete-list-of-33-13-series_27.html Anyway... I think thatbs enough for one day... I have a ton of work to do as I move into Markbs neck of the woods: Shoreline, WA. Warmly, Cassy NP: Jackopierce b Capable Girl b Live ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 16:29:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: DED Perhaps a few of you might have guessed after seeing me do a bad rendition of "Tax Free" in Idyllwild> Cassy, nothing bad about it - Dave was of course flawless, and you were nervous but totally nailed it. I was honored to have been a part of it and I think we did a great job. Always much fun to "premiere" a Joni song at fest. Bob NP: Robbie Robertson, "She's Not Mine" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #213 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------