From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #85 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 21 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 085 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2011 #84 [kevinf@broadcastvision.com] NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC [Catherine McKay] Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN ["Lucy Hone" Subject: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC Hi Bob, Hi Lieve - hello everyone.. I am a lurker as you know but I do read and I do get urged to write and chime in every now and again, and not just on the huge topics and debates but the more personal thoughts. This post by Bob and Lieve's response have hit a chord with me. Dead air - the use of silence, of space, and acoustics in that dead air is something that has touched me on various occasions. Like most people, when I hear music I see pictures. "Down to you" is one such song that prompts a strange picture for me and it is the silence that holds the key. I have often visualised the hammers of the piano striking the strings and "seen" the dust from the hammer, vibrate in the air around the sound after it has been created. Those nano moments captured on high speed film and slowed down, reveal the miniscule micro events within each second, within each silence. The dead air contains, but we cannot see, the dying movements of the string, the movement of the dust in the air, the breath of all the people in the room, the emotion and atmosphere brought to the studio by all present, the smiles on faces, the movements of hairs on the arms and backs of necks as the tone and fall of notes on the people present makes them shiver with excitement. The dead air probably also contains trails of cigarette smoke from one of Joni's cigs on and ashtray on the piano! Think about live recordings and the silences there, and the thousands of excited people whose collective silence or perhaps hush, contains enough anticipation to excite even the most jaded of people. Silences add colour to things as they do between people listening to music at an event. I love the feeling in a room after a house concert, or in a performance space. I saw the Eagles in 76 and hundreds of us sat in the Albert Hall to savour the feeling after. At Holycombe after the last UK Fest, when we were cleaning up, there hung in the air a wonderful sense of something lovely having happened, and that is what silence contains for me.. I do not seen the moments of silence as dead air so much, but as containing hidden things we cannot see or actually hear. The enhancing effect of silence I think, for me, is about how the silence evokes a sense of "something other" concealed within it. thank you for dragging me out of Lurkdom and there are still some spaces of UK Fest at the moment.. anyone who wants to know more, please get in touch. It is a lovely spring day, I am awake early and I am going to work on my garden. Lucy - -----Original Message----- From: JMDL Digest Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 7:00 AM To: joni-digest@smoe.org Dear Bob, I so loved your post that I decided to do exactly as you asked, as soon as I could find the time, and that's what I have done now. And yes, I am glad to say I get it, including the spaces of dead air! Thank you so much for giving me (all of us) this enhanced experience and enjoyment! Lieve in London PS While typing this on my computer, I just saw a most beautiful sunset over Greenwich park, which is something to treasure in the middle of so many days and weeks of dreary weather here. But then I feel like correcting myself, as I can't be the only one with a feeling of horror and surrealism when hearing the news updates of the last few days: the unfolding tragedies in Japan and Libya, it just seems too much to be possible, and it gets worse with each update. And still, the sun sets so beautifully across the park... ________________________________ From: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Thu, 17 March, 2011 20:15:27 Subject: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN "Down To You". What an absolutely incredible amazing piece of music. I had to start it up again after the first 30 seconds to hear that piano intro again. And do you know what's just as genius as the chord progression? THE SPACES OF DEAD AIR BETWEEN THEM. I mean, give that first 30 seconds a listen. Go ahead, I can wait. It almost plays like a mini-instrumental story in itself. That first 30 seconds, those 'chords of inquiry' that suggest, question, and then resolve - and then the REAL magic starts. But that first 30 seconds...most artists can't craft anything in their ENTIRE CAREERS that can rival it. And how cool that I have a group of friends that GET THAT. Bob NP: See above post ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 03:09:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC wonderful post there, Luce. Glad you have found your way to here, out of lurkdom. Down to You has to be one of my favourite Joni songs. As others have said, the silence, and all the things therein. Gorgeous moving. Court and Spark was my introduction to Joni and for me, it's a ... touchstone..what Sue said :) anyway, just wanted to let you know that your post moved me to write as well. Mags in somnia ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 05:23:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Moon behind the pine njc Guarda la bella luna! It was big and bright, but I think I was expecting the same one you were, Mark. Not that I'm disappointed really. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Mark > To: joni > Sent: Sun, March 20, 2011 12:36:52 AM > Subject: Moon behind the pine njc > > Actually it is just coming up from behind the pines. Just stepped out to look >at it. Not quite the way it looks in 'Moonstruck' but pretty impressive! > > Mark in Seattle > (where, lo and behold, we are having a night of clear skies) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 05:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC Wow! What a gorgeous post! I can see it a feel it and breathe it. Years ago, I wrote a poem/song that, as far as I can remember, was inspired by Joni's "Shadows and Light." It was called "Not by so much, but by so much in between," and that's the only line I remember. It had to do with things being described or defined not just by what they are but by what surrounds them. At the time, I was fascinated by the idea that everything is made up of moving atoms and I wondered whether, if things were constantly in contact with one another, they might not start passing their atoms back and forth. As you can see, I am no physicist. Visual artists will talk about negative space, which is the space that surrounds objects in a drawing or painting. Do you do something with that, or do you let it be? I'm all for letting it be. I'm a fan of silence, by the way. If it weren't for silence, could we appreciate beautiful noise? And other somewhat philosphical thoughts of the kind. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lucy Hone > To: joni@smoe.org > Cc: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com@smoe.org; lieve reckers > Sent: Sun, March 20, 2011 3:57:20 AM > Subject: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC > > > "Down to you" is one such song that prompts a strange picture for me and it is >the silence that holds the key. I have often visualised the hammers of the >piano striking the strings and "seen" the dust from the hammer, vibrate in the >air around the sound after it has been created. > > Those nano moments captured on high speed film and slowed down, reveal the >miniscule micro events within each second, within each silence. The dead air >contains, but we cannot see, the dying movements of the string, the movement >of the dust in the air, the breath of all the people in the room, the emotion >and atmosphere brought to the studio by all present, the smiles on faces, the >movements of hairs on the arms and backs of necks as the tone and fall of notes >on the people present makes them shiver with excitement. The dead air probably >also contains trails of cigarette smoke from one of Joni's cigs on and ashtray >on the piano! > > Think about live recordings and the silences there, and the thousands of >excited people whose collective silence or perhaps hush, contains enough >anticipation to excite even the most jaded of people. > > Silences add colour to things as they do between people listening to music at >an event. I love the feeling in a room after a house concert, or in a >performance space. I saw the Eagles in 76 and hundreds of us sat in the Albert >Hall to savour the feeling after. At Holycombe after the last UK Fest, when we >were cleaning up, there hung in the air a wonderful sense of something lovely >having happened, and that is what silence contains for me.. > > I do not seen the moments of silence as dead air so much, but as containing >hidden things we cannot see or actually hear. The enhancing effect of silence I >think, for me, is about how the silence evokes a sense of "something other" >concealed within it. > > thank you for dragging me out of Lurkdom and there are still some spaces of UK >Fest at the moment.. anyone who wants to know more, please get in touch. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 06:31:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC Or in a similar fashion, when I'm acting on stage, the effectiveness of a line can be driven not by the actual words but by the pauses, either between the cue line or within the line itself. I've worked with directors who insisted that as soon as one line finishes the other should begin. Sometimes that's a good direction but writers write pauses in their work as well which are just as important. Bob NP: The Postal Service, "Recycled Air" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 06:31:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC Or in a similar fashion, when I'm acting on stage, the effectiveness of a line can be driven not by the actual words but by the pauses, either between the cue line or within the line itself. I've worked with directors who insisted that as soon as one line finishes the other should begin. Sometimes that's a good direction but writers write pauses in their work as well which are just as important. Bob NP: The Postal Service, "Recycled Air" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 09:41:48 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC As usual, Bob, an astute observation. The racing lines method of directing is killing any art left in theater. It comes from the thinking that audiences will get bored within seconds, so forge ahead. It is especially distressing to see the classics and modern classics done this way. It just kills the poetry of such writers as Williams, Miller, and even Shakespeare. I just saw a production of Who's Afriad of Virginia Woolf directed that way. It even had a Dick Van Dyke spit take in it. I wanted to scream! Jerry On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Bob Muller wrote: > the space that surrounds objects in a drawing or painting. > > > Or in a similar fashion, when I'm acting on stage, the effectiveness of a > line > can be driven not by the actual words but by the pauses, either between the > cue > line or within the line itself. I've worked with directors who insisted > that as > soon as one line finishes the other should begin. Sometimes that's a good > direction but writers write pauses in their work as well which are just as > important. > > Bob > > NP: The Postal Service, "Recycled Air" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 16:04:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC I couldn't agree more. That's crazy, to cut silences, because everybody knows (should know) how meaningful they are. It makes me appreciate Philip Glass's 3 minutes of silence a little more - though I still rate that as a gimmick, not half as effective as Joni's silences (so perfect in their context) that we started this discussion off on. Lieve - apologising in advance if Glass's silence is not 3 minutes long but 2 or 6 or whatever... ________________________________ From: Gerald Notaro To: Bob Muller Cc: Catherine McKay ; Lucy Hone ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sun, 20 March, 2011 13:41:48 Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC As usual, Bob, an astute observation. The racing lines method of directing is killing any art left in theater. It comes from the thinking that audiences will get bored within seconds, so forge ahead. It is especially distressing to see the classics and modern classics done this way. It just kills the poetry of such writers as Williams, Miller, and even Shakespeare. I just saw a production of Who's Afriad of Virginia Woolf directed that way. It even had a Dick Van Dyke spit take in it. I wanted to scream! Jerry On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Bob Muller wrote: > the space that surrounds objects in a drawing or painting. > > > Or in a similar fashion, when I'm acting on stage, the effectiveness of a > line > can be driven not by the actual words but by the pauses, either between the > cue > line or within the line itself. I've worked with directors who insisted > that as > soon as one line finishes the other should begin. Sometimes that's a good > direction but writers write pauses in their work as well which are just as > important. > > Bob > > NP: The Postal Service, "Recycled Air" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 09:20:05 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC Hi Catherine, The novel 'Jacob's Room' was the first where Virginia Woolf began to experiment with describing her character's inner lives. It was her breakthrough. The structure of 'Jacob's Room' has often been described as you put it below, "things being described or defined not just by what they are but by what surrounds them". Jacob emerges as a sort of silhouette as the other character's thoughts and perceptions of him create the background that surrounds him. Wonderful, provocative post, Lucy. Thank you for taking the time to write it. De-lurk more often! Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:31 AM To: Lucy Hone ; joni@smoe.org Cc: Bob Muller ; lieve reckers Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC Wow! What a gorgeous post! I can see it a feel it and breathe it. Years ago, I wrote a poem/song that, as far as I can remember, was inspired by Joni's "Shadows and Light." It was called "Not by so much, but by so much in between," and that's the only line I remember. It had to do with things being described or defined not just by what they are but by what surrounds them. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 09:28:07 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC I remember a production that was done when I was in college of Harold Pinter's 'The Birthday Party'. The pauses in this play are probably just as important as the dialogue. You could say the same about 'Waiting For Godot'. What is left unsaid is often just as important as what is. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Notaro Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:41 AM To: Bob Muller Cc: Catherine McKay ; Lucy Hone ; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC As usual, Bob, an astute observation. The racing lines method of directing is killing any art left in theater. It comes from the thinking that audiences will get bored within seconds, so forge ahead. It is especially distressing to see the classics and modern classics done this way. It just kills the poetry of such writers as Williams, Miller, and even Shakespeare. I just saw a production of Who's Afriad of Virginia Woolf directed that way. It even had a Dick Van Dyke spit take in it. I wanted to scream! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 16:38:42 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC Lucy (in amongst many other observations) wrote: "I do not seen the moments of silence as dead air so much, but as containing hidden things we cannot see or actually hear. The enhancing effect of silence I think, for me, is about how the silence evokes a sense of "something other" concealed within it." And Bob said: "Or in a similar fashion, when I'm acting on stage, the effectiveness of a line can be driven not by the actual words but by the pauses, either between the cue line or within the line itself" For me this takes me to think about the nature of contact between people and, also, contact between 'something other.' Lots of people I meet say that they 'hate silence' which I find most curious. I am a big fan of silent retreats in which you really encounter yourself (and maybe something other) and other people in a very different way. There is lots that goes on in silent spaces. Lucy found better words than me. Time changes and one's awareness become very different. Oh well, constant stranger, it all comes down to you! Happy Sunday Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:28:57 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN Here is an njc thread that I am now jc. How rare is that? There is a discussion going on now (OK, so I started it all) about replacing Both Sides Now which was used in the London and Australian versions of the new musical Priscilla, Queen of the Desert with True Colors in the NY production. It is opening tonight (I think) and is going to be huge. For those of you familiar with the movie, it is sung be the two drag performers who are gay men and Bernadette, a transsexual, are bashed and find horrid graffiti painted on the bus. They had sung Both Sides Now, which I can't imagine any song could be better placed. The musical is basically juke box, lots of hits used, no original songs. In NY it was replaced with True Colors, also a great song, but a lot less lyrical. I am sure it was replaced because True Colors is probably much more known, especially as an anthem of sorts, to a young, hip, GLBT audience. But how sad to have BSN replaced, a last chance lost. Jerry On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Lieve Reckers wrote: > I couldn't agree more. That's crazy, to cut silences, because everybody > knows (should know) how meaningful they are. > It makes me appreciate Philip Glass's 3 minutes of silence a little more - > though I still rate that as a gimmick, not half as effective as Joni's > silences (so perfect in their context) that we started this discussion off > on. > > Lieve - apologising in advance if Glass's silence is not 3 minutes long but > 2 or 6 or whatever... > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Gerald Notaro > *To:* Bob Muller > *Cc:* Catherine McKay ; Lucy Hone < > aurabright@supanet.com>; joni@smoe.org > *Sent:* Sun, 20 March, 2011 13:41:48 > *Subject:* Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC > > As usual, Bob, an astute observation. The racing lines method of directing > is killing any art left in theater. It comes from the thinking that > audiences will get bored within seconds, so forge ahead. It is especially > distressing to see the classics and modern classics done this way. It just > kills the poetry of such writers as Williams, Miller, and even Shakespeare. > I just saw a production of Who's Afriad of Virginia Woolf directed that > way. > It even had a Dick Van Dyke spit take in it. I wanted to scream! > > Jerry > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Bob Muller wrote: > > > > the space that surrounds objects in a drawing or painting. > > > > > Or in a similar fashion, when I'm acting on stage, the effectiveness of a > > line > > can be driven not by the actual words but by the pauses, either between > the > > cue > > line or within the line itself. I've worked with directors who insisted > > that as > > soon as one line finishes the other should begin. Sometimes that's a good > > direction but writers write pauses in their work as well which are just > as > > important. > > > > Bob > > > > NP: The Postal Service, "Recycled Air" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:28:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN Is that True Colours the excruciatingly boring dirge that goes "I see your true colours shining through" (repeated at nauseam)? In that case, the person who chose that over BSN should be shot! Lieve ________________________________ From: Gerald Notaro To: Lieve Reckers Cc: Bob Muller ; Catherine McKay ; Lucy Hone ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sun, 20 March, 2011 16:28:57 Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN Here is an njc thread that I am now jc. How rare is that? There is a discussion going on now (OK, so I started it all) about replacing Both Sides Now which was used in the London and Australian versions of the new musical Priscilla, Queen of the Desert with True Colors in the NY production. It is opening tonight (I think) and is going to be huge. For those of you familiar with the movie, it is sung be the two drag performers who are gay men and Bernadette, a transsexual, are bashed and find horrid graffiti painted on the bus. They had sung Both Sides Now, which I can't imagine any song could be better placed. The musical is basically juke box, lots of hits used, no original songs. In NY it was replaced with True Colors, also a great song, but a lot less lyrical. I am sure it was replaced because True Colors is probably much more known, especially as an anthem of sorts, to a young, hip, GLBT audience. But how sad to have BSN replaced, a last chance lost. Jerry On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Lieve Reckers wrote: I couldn't agree more. That's crazy, to cut silences, because everybody knows (should know) how meaningful they are. >It makes me appreciate Philip Glass's 3 minutes of silence a little more - >though I still rate that as a gimmick, not half as effective as Joni's silences >(so perfect in their context) that we started this discussion off on. > >Lieve - apologising in advance if Glass's silence is not 3 minutes long but 2 or >6 or whatever... > > > > ________________________________ From: Gerald Notaro >To: Bob Muller >Cc: Catherine McKay ; Lucy Hone ; >joni@smoe.org >Sent: Sun, 20 March, 2011 13:41:48 >Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC > >As usual, Bob, an astute observation. The racing lines method of directing >is killing any art left in theater. It comes from the thinking that >audiences will get bored within seconds, so forge ahead. It is especially >distressing to see the classics and modern classics done this way. It just >kills the poetry of such writers as Williams, Miller, and even Shakespeare. >I just saw a production of Who's Afriad of Virginia Woolf directed that way. >It even had a Dick Van Dyke spit take in it. I wanted to scream! > >Jerry > > >On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Bob Muller wrote: > >> > the space that surrounds objects in a drawing or painting. > >> >> Or in a similar fashion, when I'm acting on stage, the effectiveness of a >> line >> can be driven not by the actual words but by the pauses, either between the >> cue >> line or within the line itself. I've worked with directors who insisted >> that as >> soon as one line finishes the other should begin. Sometimes that's a good >> direction but writers write pauses in their work as well which are just as >> important. >> >> Bob >> >> NP: The Postal Service, "Recycled Air" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:47:48 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN Yes, I am am afraid that is it. I don't like to bash the song as it was written by Cyndi Lauper, a true Joni lover, and has become a gay anthem of sorts. But it is simplistic compared to the lyrical universality and brilliance of Both Sides Now. Jerry On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Lieve Reckers wrote: > Is that True Colours the excruciatingly boring dirge that goes "I see your > true colours shining through" (repeated at nauseam)? In that case, the > person who chose that over BSN should be shot! > Lieve > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Gerald Notaro > *To:* Lieve Reckers > *Cc:* Bob Muller ; Catherine McKay < > anima_rising@yahoo.ca>; Lucy Hone ; joni@smoe.org > *Sent:* Sun, 20 March, 2011 16:28:57 > > *Subject:* Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN > > Here is an njc thread that I am now jc. How rare is that? There is a > discussion going on now (OK, so I started it all) about replacing Both Sides > Now which was used in the London and Australian versions of the new musical > Priscilla, Queen of the Desert with True Colors in the NY production. It is > opening tonight (I think) and is going to be huge. For those of you familiar > with the movie, it is sung be the two drag performers who are gay men and > Bernadette, a transsexual, are bashed and find horrid graffiti painted on > the bus. They had sung Both Sides Now, which I can't imagine any song could > be better placed. The musical is basically juke box, lots of hits used, no > original songs. In NY it was replaced with True Colors, also a great song, > but a lot less lyrical. I am sure it was replaced because True Colors is > probably much more known, especially as an anthem of sorts, to a young, hip, > GLBT audience. But how sad to have BSN replaced, a last chance lost. > Jerry > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Lieve Reckers wrote: > >> I couldn't agree more. That's crazy, to cut silences, because everybody >> knows (should know) how meaningful they are. >> It makes me appreciate Philip Glass's 3 minutes of silence a little more - >> though I still rate that as a gimmick, not half as effective as Joni's >> silences (so perfect in their context) that we started this discussion off >> on. >> >> Lieve - apologising in advance if Glass's silence is not 3 minutes long >> but 2 or 6 or whatever... >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Gerald Notaro >> *To:* Bob Muller >> *Cc:* Catherine McKay ; Lucy Hone < >> aurabright@supanet.com>; joni@smoe.org >> *Sent:* Sun, 20 March, 2011 13:41:48 >> *Subject:* Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC >> >> As usual, Bob, an astute observation. The racing lines method of directing >> is killing any art left in theater. It comes from the thinking that >> audiences will get bored within seconds, so forge ahead. It is especially >> distressing to see the classics and modern classics done this way. It just >> kills the poetry of such writers as Williams, Miller, and even >> Shakespeare. >> I just saw a production of Who's Afriad of Virginia Woolf directed that >> way. >> It even had a Dick Van Dyke spit take in it. I wanted to scream! >> >> Jerry >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Bob Muller wrote: >> >> > > > the space that surrounds objects in a drawing or painting. > >> > >> > Or in a similar fashion, when I'm acting on stage, the effectiveness of >> a >> > line >> > can be driven not by the actual words but by the pauses, either between >> the >> > cue >> > line or within the line itself. I've worked with directors who insisted >> > that as >> > soon as one line finishes the other should begin. Sometimes that's a >> good >> > direction but writers write pauses in their work as well which are just >> as >> > important. >> > >> > Bob >> > >> > NP: The Postal Service, "Recycled Air" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:42:27 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN You're very kind, Jerry dear! I'm sure Cyndi has written better, but simplistic is certainly an applicable word for this song. Reminds me of Elton John's "Are you ready (for love)". That sort of simplistic repetition can drive me to hysteria! Lieve ________________________________ From: Gerald Notaro To: Lieve Reckers Cc: Bob Muller ; Catherine McKay ; Lucy Hone ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sun, 20 March, 2011 18:47:48 Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN Yes, I am am afraid that is it. I don't like to bash the song as it was written by Cyndi Lauper, a true Joni lover, and has become a gay anthem of sorts. But it is simplistic compared to the lyrical universality and brilliance of Both Sides Now. Jerry On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Lieve Reckers wrote: Is that True Colours the excruciatingly boring dirge that goes "I see your true colours shining through" (repeated at nauseam)? In that case, the person who chose that over BSN should be shot! >Lieve > > > ________________________________ From: Gerald Notaro >To: Lieve Reckers >Cc: Bob Muller ; Catherine McKay ; >Lucy Hone ; joni@smoe.org >Sent: Sun, 20 March, 2011 16:28:57 > >Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN > > >Here is an njc thread that I am now jc. How rare is that? There is a discussion >going on now (OK, so I started it all) about replacing Both Sides Now which was >used in the London and Australian versions of the new musical Priscilla, Queen >of the Desert with True Colors in the NY production. It is opening tonight (I >think) and is going to be huge. For those of you familiar with the movie, it is >sung be the two drag performers who are gay men and Bernadette, a transsexual, >are bashed and find horrid graffiti painted on the bus. They had sung Both Sides >Now, which I can't imagine any song could be better placed. The musical is >basically juke box, lots of hits used, no original songs. In NY it was replaced >with True Colors, also a great song, but a lot less lyrical. I am sure it was >replaced because True Colors is probably much more known, especially as an >anthem of sorts, to a young, hip, GLBT audience. But how sad to have BSN >replaced, a last chance lost. >Jerry > > > >On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Lieve Reckers >wrote: > >I couldn't agree more. That's crazy, to cut silences, because everybody knows >(should know) how meaningful they are. >>It makes me appreciate Philip Glass's 3 minutes of silence a little more - >>though I still rate that as a gimmick, not half as effective as Joni's silences >>(so perfect in their context) that we started this discussion off on. >> >>Lieve - apologising in advance if Glass's silence is not 3 minutes long but 2 or >>6 or whatever... >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: Gerald Notaro >>To: Bob Muller >>Cc: Catherine McKay ; Lucy Hone ; >>joni@smoe.org >>Sent: Sun, 20 March, 2011 13:41:48 >>Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC >> >>As usual, Bob, an astute observation. The racing lines method of directing >>is killing any art left in theater. It comes from the thinking that >>audiences will get bored within seconds, so forge ahead. It is especially >>distressing to see the classics and modern classics done this way. It just >>kills the poetry of such writers as Williams, Miller, and even Shakespeare. >>I just saw a production of Who's Afriad of Virginia Woolf directed that way. >>It even had a Dick Van Dyke spit take in it. I wanted to scream! >> >>Jerry >> >> >>On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Bob Muller wrote: >> >>> >> the space that surrounds objects in a drawing or painting. > >>> >>> Or in a similar fashion, when I'm acting on stage, the effectiveness of a >>> line >>> can be driven not by the actual words but by the pauses, either between the >>> cue >>> line or within the line itself. I've worked with directors who insisted >>> that as >>> soon as one line finishes the other should begin. Sometimes that's a good >>> direction but writers write pauses in their work as well which are just as >>> important. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> NP: The Postal Service, "Recycled Air" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:21:08 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: jmdl archives Joniphiles - The past sure is tense as Captain Beefheart would say! The complete, searchable JMDL archives await those brave enough, with a new access code even: http://jmdl.com user: cartoon password: coaster Have fun. Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:49:32 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN > Yes, I am am afraid that is it. I don't like to bash the song as it was > written by Cyndi Lauper, a true Joni lover, and has become a gay anthem of > sorts. But it is simplistic compared to the lyrical universality and > brilliance of Both Sides Now. > > Jerry > I like Cyndi Lauper. I don't like her music enough to buy it. That particular song I did always find quite nice though and its simplicity and sweetness is quite brilliant in its own way. Apples, oranges. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:58:25 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN Hey Gerald b how are you? Lovely to be scatting about with everyone. I saw the film PQOTD and loved it. I donbt get to go to the theatre in London much b it is VERY expensive but I would imagine the stage version will be very good. True Colours is a wonderful song b and it does have Joni moments for me.. One can never get full explanations as to why certain songs are selected or replaced in films.. I love bLove Actuallybbs use of BSN from and how it enhanced the performance of Emma Thompson as the wronged wife. Jonibs mature voice is so world weary and wise and she just nails the feeling of the moment. Mark mentioned the silences in Pinter plays b there is a silly joke about the polar bear that goes into the pub. He stands there and says bhello ...............................................may........................i.. ...................have................................ a ..................................pint................................of..... ...................beer the bar man answers b byeah sure, but why the long pauseb (this is really an aural joke as every one hears the word as paws and the answer is usally bwell I am a polar bearb b.............................well.......b says the bear bMy.........................name............................is............. .................harold..........................pinter................b the thought that audiences are judged to not be able to cope with silences or lack of action is a terrible comment on our society and the total belief that people cannot think anymore - instant gratification is all that an audience can cope with. I find this whole attitude has seeped into camera work on programmes where everything is bmagazinedb, given in short bursts, made bzanyb and bfunstyleb, lost of quick in out zoom, mad angles and it does my head in and interferes with me getting information out of a programme! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh.. Rant over but what has happened that we have to suffer this? who has decided we now lack the intelligence to concentrate? From: Gerald Notaro Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:28 PM To: Lieve Reckers Cc: Bob Muller ; Catherine McKay ; Lucy Hone ; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN Here is an njc thread that I am now jc. How rare is that? There is a discussion going on now (OK, so I started it all) about replacing Both Sides Now which was used in the London and Australian versions of the new musical Priscilla, Queen of the Desert with True Colors in the NY production. It is opening tonight (I think) and is going to be huge. For those of you familiar with the movie, it is sung be the two drag performers who are gay men and Bernadette, a transsexual, are bashed and find horrid graffiti painted on the bus. They had sung Both Sides Now, which I can't imagine any song could be better placed. The musical is basically juke box, lots of hits used, no original songs. In NY it was replaced with True Colors, also a great song, but a lot less lyrical. I am sure it was replaced because True Colors is probably much more known, especially as an anthem of sorts, to a young, hip, GLBT audience. But how sad to have BSN replaced, a last chance lost. Jerry On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Lieve Reckers wrote: I couldn't agree more. That's crazy, to cut silences, because everybody knows (should know) how meaningful they are. It makes me appreciate Philip Glass's 3 minutes of silence a little more - though I still rate that as a gimmick, not half as effective as Joni's silences (so perfect in their context) that we started this discussion off on. Lieve - apologising in advance if Glass's silence is not 3 minutes long but 2 or 6 or whatever... - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - From: Gerald Notaro To: Bob Muller Cc: Catherine McKay ; Lucy Hone ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sun, 20 March, 2011 13:41:48 Subject: Re: NJC Re: OMG, just got stopped in my tracks AGAIN NJC As usual, Bob, an astute observation. The racing lines method of directing is killing any art left in theater. It comes from the thinking that audiences will get bored within seconds, so forge ahead. It is especially distressing to see the classics and modern classics done this way. It just kills the poetry of such writers as Williams, Miller, and even Shakespeare. I just saw a production of Who's Afriad of Virginia Woolf directed that way. It even had a Dick Van Dyke spit take in it. I wanted to scream! Jerry On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Bob Muller wrote: > the space that surrounds objects in a drawing or painting. > > > Or in a similar fashion, when I'm acting on stage, the effectiveness of a > line > can be driven not by the actual words but by the pauses, either between the > cue > line or within the line itself. I've worked with directors who insisted > that as > soon as one line finishes the other should begin. Sometimes that's a good > direction but writers write pauses in their work as well which are just as > important. > > Bob > > NP: The Postal Service, "Recycled Air" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #85 **************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------