From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #72 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Thursday, March 10 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 072 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Bruce Cockburn interview (njc) [Paul Castle ] Re: Loving Joni Mitchell: You Don't Have to Be Gay - PBS article [Bob.Mu] RE: Loving Joni Mitchell: You Don't ["Robert Sartorius" ] Some great responses to the "Loving Joni" Article from PBS + Julius [Wirl] Re: JMDL Digest V2011 #71 [DonRico1967@aol.com] Re: Loving Joni Mitchell: You Don't [Lc Stanley ] Re: Loving Joni Mitchell: You Don't [Lori Fye ] What's up with this 3/9 news item on jonimitchell.com? [Jim Subject: Bruce Cockburn interview (njc) Bruce Cockburn interviewed on the Premier Guitar Magazine site talking about his guitars, tunings and his latest album 'Small Source Of Comfort', which was released yesterday - http://bit.ly/i9BL3L Really like the opening track - 'Iris Of The World' - (which is in a tuning he calls "Egad") with former Wailin Jenny Annabelle Chvostek on bvs - http://blip.fm/~12kx4z and Jenny Scheinman's fiddle on the instrumental 'Comets of Kandahar' - http://blip.fm/~12k7iy best to all PaulC ____________________ http://blip.fm/paulcastle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 09:45:06 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Loving Joni Mitchell: You Don't Have to Be Gay - PBS article Yes indeed, a truly great article. I've never understood the whole Joni-as-gay-icon thing. I mean, I can totally understand the Judy Garland/Bette Midler/Liza Minelli/Cher attraction, and I have to say that I don't know many/any straight guys who are into those over-the-top drag-queen inspiring types. Like the author states, Joni isn't so much a straight/gay artist as much as she is a get it/don't get it one. As Joni herself has said, it's more of a sensitivity issue. For me personally, it was always more of a lyrical issue. I loved to sit down and read a record jacket while listening, and decide for myself if songs were banal or brilliant. And the first time I did that with Hejira, with it's lyrical genius and unique musical textures, I was definitely hooked. Oh, and I also think ZZ Top is pretty awesome too - at least their pre-MTV stuff. Thanks for sharing the article Pearl. Bob NP: Joni, "God Must Be A Boogie Man" (T'log version) - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 12:42:35 -0500 From: "Robert Sartorius" Subject: RE: Loving Joni Mitchell: You Don't Pearl - I join Mark and Lieve with my thanks for posting the link to this article. On the matter of "you don't have to be gay.....", I think that issue is self evident. And, I grinned when the author "confessed" to his reluctance to share his love of Joni with his high school pals - right after writing "I love her" right out loud !!! What a difference 35 years of growing up can make. However, the topic raised begs the issue of sterotyping group tendencies - a much maligned (if not tabooed) activity in these (all too, IMO) politically correct times. Would it surprise me to learn that a higher percentage of gay people than straight people love Joni ? No! Does that stop me from (happily) being in that group? Certainly not ! If this hypothesis were shown to be true, might there be reasons worth discovering of why it is true? I vote yes, but mine is only one vote. I would think it a shame if the pursuit of such a study were shut down by those who think it is morally wrong to investigate it - while at the same time criticizing others for being too narrow minded. But my real interest was in the article. First of all, there is the matter of how one feels about Hissing. I admit that it was an album that I hated when it came out. Hated not because it was so bad (I did not really understand it, musically, and suspected Joni was into an area where she was in above her head, but that was only my suspicion, by definition, since I did not understand it). But because the Joni I had known and loved had obviously packed up and left. I hated losing her. It took me over 25 years before I could finally appreciate the record for what it was. I do love the album now, but even after having come to fully appreciate it, I see it as a transition between the old Joni and the Joni of Hejira and DJRD. I realize that many (including Prince) think of this as her greatest album, and "got it" right away. I tip my hat to those in that group, while disagreeing as to its positioning in the rankings. What I found really ironic, though, was the defensiveness he felt upon reading Stephen Holden's review. Ironic, in part, because Stephen Holden is a huge Joni fan. Recall that he was a commentator on the PBS American Masters "Woman of Heart and Mind" tribute. I do not know the man, but my guess is that if he were to participate in a poll for "greatest artist", he might well vote for Joni. Holden's view of the music on Hissing may have changed over the years (mine did), but even if it did not, he did not summarily pan it - he explained in detail what he found disappointing in it. For a "negative" review, there is certainly a lot of admiration in it. His opening paragraph captures perfectly, IMO, the suffocating, straightjacketed situations that the Hissing characters are painted into by Joni's lyrics. It is tough listening for some, and for one who did not experience those feelings first hand in my own life, it took some time to relate to (and to appreciate that many of those around me were experiencing or had experienced these scenes in their lives). It was indeed, a sea change in focus, lyrically. The theme - social as compared to personal commentary - represented a complete reversal of form. As far as Holden's criticism of the melodies "Always distinctly modal, Mitchell's tunes for the first time often lack harmonic focus. They are free-form in the most self-indulgent sense, i.e., they exist only to carry the lyrics. With the exceptions of "Shades of Scarlet Conquering" and "Sweet Bird," neither of which boasts a strong tune but at least have appropriately lovely textures, the arrangements are as pretentiously chic as they are boring." While I disagree with the detail of Holden's criticism - I can make a decent pass at singing along with "In France They Kiss on Main Street", "Edith", "Hissing", "Boho Dance" and "S&L", but I doubt if I could do the others without some pretty bad glitches. As far as singing them a cappella, I double dog dare you to have a go at any of the songs except the first one - which is the one the author suggests in his review as the hypothetical substitute for All I Want, which the pair pretty much butchered (though endearingly so) in the movie (for the author to have suggested any of the other tunes on THOSL would have pretty comical :-). and even that one is a challenge. (One could sing along with S&L easily enough, but it would not have captured the point - which was to highlight both Joni's melodic and lyrical gifts). I also disagree with Holden re his criticism of the playing of Tom Scott's LA Express. In fact, given the difficulty and sparseness of the melodic lines, I think their playing provides a fantastic backdrop for them - without the backdrop, one could not sing the songs at all. Their playing provides the harmonic cues necessary to help the singer find the notes - no small task. Still, my disagreement does not mean I am right. Holden goes on to challenge Joni to find better jazz musicians to work with - which she promptly did !!!!! He concluded with "THOSL is ultimately a great collection of pop poems" (who could disagree with that?) "with a distracting sound track" (a forgivable dismissal, in the context I laid out above, since having forgiven myself, the least I can do is forgive Holden). A link to another review - this one of Night Ride Home - is below. I love this one paragraph synopsis "The new album (Geffen GEFD 23402; all three formats), with its wistful backward gazes and twinges of longing for new adventure, is serene compared to Ms. Mitchell's 1970's albums, "Blue," "For the Roses," "Court and Spark" and "Hejira." Her confessional lyrics on those recordings set the standards for personal honesty and poetic grace in what was labeled the singer-songwriter genre." http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE1D71E3BF934A25750C0A9679 58260&ref=jonimitchell And, to be fair, the current author does not "dis" Holden's review - he just recalls to mind his defense of Joni. I can relate to that. Bobsart _http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/culture/loving-joni-mitchell-you-dont- have-to-be-gay/7820/_ (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/culture/loving-joni-mitchell-you-dont- have-to-be-gay/7820/) # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 11:32:37 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Loving Joni Mitchell: You Don't Bobsart wrote: > But my real interest was in the article. First of all, there is the matter > of how one feels about Hissing. I admit that it was an album that I hated > when it came out. Hated not because it was so bad (I did not really > understand it, musically, and suspected Joni was into an area where she was > in above her head, but that was only my suspicion, by definition, since I > did not understand it). But because the Joni I had known and loved had > obviously packed up and left. I hated losing her. It took me over 25 years > before I could finally appreciate the record for what it was. This illustrates for me (again) why I feel so lucky to have discovered Joni through Hejira. Because of that discovery, I "got" THOSL immediately, and loved it immediately. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:26:41 EST From: WirlyPearl@aol.com Subject: Some great responses to the "Loving Joni" Article from PBS + Julius Hi Joni Friends, Here's the link to the "Loving Joni-You Don't Have to Be Gay" article by Tom Casciato from PBS - Need to Know, in case you missed it yesterday. _http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/culture/loving-joni-mitchell-you-dont- have-to-be-gay/7820/_ (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/culture/loving-joni-mitchell-you-dont-have-to-be-gay/7820/) # There have been some wonderful, thought provoking, articulate and well thought out comments about this article from all who have written. Wow! Thank you for taking the time to write and share even more insight and enjoyable reading. Another comment came to my Facebook page from Julius who is currently not on the list. With his permission I am including it here, as it's a great story. Julius Raymond Mills I went to college with Tom Casciato. (The writer of the article) He played keyboards in a great psychedelic band ("The Claude Monet Band") that rehearsed in the basement of our enlightened co-op (Phi Psi) at Stanford in the early eighties. He was a really, really good songwriter, too, as I recall. In that same house, I used to put my speakers in the windows and crank up Joni's C&S and Blue to play between sets when Claude Monet would play for the parties we had on the lawn...we called the party 'Splendor on the Grass.' Those were great days! I'm gonna drop old Tom a line... Thanks, Pearl! _Sue Tierney McNamara_ (http://www.facebook.com/JoniMitchellTabs) So Julius, that just proves to me that there is a silver chord connecting all Joniphiles!!! Great story!! _Julius Raymond Mills_ (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1532221801) (http://www.facebook.com/JoniMitchellTabs) Tis true, Sue! We sure all loved Joni in that house in those years. Here is a picture of the house taken during that time. My room was the one with the two windows on the top far left: _http://histsoc.stanford.edu/hh1/550SanJuan.pdf_ (http://histsoc.stanford.edu/hh1/550SanJuan.pdf) (http://www.facebook.com/JoniMitchellTabs) Pearl Hi Julius, What a wonderful story about "back in the day" listening to and loving Joni. It warmed my heart that you would be reconnecting with an old friend. I also posted the article to the Joni list and have gotten some great responses. Since, if I recall correctly, you're not currently on the list, would it be alright if I forwarded your comments. I'm sure everyone would enjoy it as much as Sue and I did. Let me know. Best, Pearl _Julius Raymond Mills_ (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1532221801) Hi Pearl. Please feel free to forward my comments and links. I'm glad you liked the story. I've already exchanged emails with Tom! I invited him to Hollywood and sent him that pic of Joni and me, as well as the article on the old Stanford house. It's great to be in touch with Tom after so long. Those were magical times and I love the nostalgia, especially when it involves music there's a Joni connection... My best to you and Steve. Thanks for posting this! -Julius Pearl here again...Isn't this fabulous! So happy that, unknowingly, I was able to be a little link in their reunion just by sharing Joni! Love it, love it, love it! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 21:49:02 -0500 (EST) From: DonRico1967@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2011 #71 Why am I just now (after loving the beautiful Joni since I first bought a vinyl copy of SONG TO A SEAGULL at the tender-yet-hormonally-overdosing age of 17 in 1986)-- Why am I just now learning that one must be "GAY" to love JONI MITCHELL !?!?!?! IF that IS indeed a "fact" then I myself must be THE "gayest" HETEROSEXUAL EVER. Sexual-orientation discrimination TOTALLY aside, why indeed WOULD one have to be "gay" to love Joni? I mean-- What is NOT to love? She has never ONCE sucked, sold-out, gone "commercial", been "lame"-- Hell, the only living musician that I could compare her to is my other favorite Canadian, Uncle Neil... And Mr. Young may have at one time (supposedly) pissed-off LYNYRD SKYNRD by daring to call out Alabama-style Southern Man racism, he certainly never inspired a classic and beautiful LED ZEP song, either-- "Someone told me there's a girl out there with love in her eyes and flowers in her hair... La la la... Oh Joni-- OH JONI!" And even if you disregard her brilliant music ENTIRELY-- Oh my God-- THOSE CHEEKBONES!!! PEACE & LOVE - -- Eric in sunny FLA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 19:26:37 -0800 (PST) From: Lc Stanley Subject: Re: Loving Joni Mitchell: You Don't Hi Lori, Your post brought me memories of when I first got into THOSL. When I joined this list in 2003, I only had Clouds, Court and Spark, Ladies of the Canyon, and Wild Things Run Fast. Marianne asked me which albums I had, and named a bunch saying, oh you don't have .... wow you don't have.... you need to get .... and.... and... I had no idea Joni had so many albums until Marianne kept naming them off. So I went to second hand record stores and bought all the Joni CD's I could find: Blue, Turbulent Indigo, Taming the Tiger, Night Ride Home, Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm, For the Roses, and The Hissing of Summer Lawns. Some of these still have the $8.99 or $5.99 second hand stickers on them. I bought new CDs of Hejira and Don Juan's Recklace Daughter, which Marianne highly recommended. I also bought Mingus new. Marianne gave me Miles of Aisles when Betty and I visited her on our way to the 2004 Jonifest at the Full Moon. Eventually, I bought Both Sides Now, the Geffen set, and some of the compilations and tribute CDs. Anyway, I had so many "new" Joni albums to listen to, I was getting them all confused as to which song is on which album. I still don't know that very well since I heard so many albums for the first time in such a short time span. I loved THOSL the first time I listened to it, and I remember thinking to myself how could I have missed this album when it came out?!! I had the same thought about For the Roses, which blew me away. I talked about THOSL with Kevin from New Jersey, who lurks (Kevinnnn where are youuuu?), and told him I had only listened to it a few times. He told me to listen closely to Sweet Bird because he thought it would become one of my favorite songs. He was right; it is one of my all time favorites!! I think THOSL is one of Joni's strongest albums for her voice and the rock and jazz nature of it. Love, Laura ________________________________ From: Lori Fye To: Joni List Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 1:32:37 PM Subject: Re: Loving Joni Mitchell: You Don't Bobsart wrote: > But my real interest was in the article. First of all, there is the matter > of how one feels about Hissing. I admit that it was an album that I hated > when it came out. Hated not because it was so bad (I did not really > understand it, musically, and suspected Joni was into an area where she was > in above her head, but that was only my suspicion, by definition, since I > did not understand it). But because the Joni I had known and loved had > obviously packed up and left. I hated losing her. It took me over 25 years > before I could finally appreciate the record for what it was. This illustrates for me (again) why I feel so lucky to have discovered Joni through Hejira. Because of that discovery, I "got" THOSL immediately, and loved it immediately. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 20:48:16 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Loving Joni Mitchell: You Don't > I think THOSL is one of Joni's strongest albums for her voice and the rock and jazz nature of it. I absolutely agree with you, Laura -- and I'll add that the song lyrics don't suck, either. ; ) Lori, who feels like writing all about my Joni journey, but who has too much other work to do in Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 22:33:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Subject: What's up with this 3/9 news item on jonimitchell.com? Someone needs to get rid of this on the site. The link to the "read more" is a month old blog reference and not new news. http://jonimitchell.com/news.cfm Mar 9, 2011: Joni to preside at Hollywood Bowl event Hollywood Bowl-minded pop, rock, jazz and country fans have some intriguing choices ahead in the 2011 season being announced Tuesday. Perhaps tops on the list is an Aug. 17 date with Joni Mitchell in which the acclaimed singer and songwriter will preside over a bJazz at the Bowlb evening, where shebll be joined by jazz players still to be announced. Read more... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #72 **************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------