From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #17 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Monday, January 17 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 017 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Facebook NJC [David Marine ] Re: Golden Globes/The Kids Are Alright - njc [Lieve Reckers ] Re: Facebook NJC [Gerald Notaro ] re: Same Situation You Tube [c Karma ] Nissan Live video of River RE: Anyone seen this yet? [Susan Tierney McNam] The long lost Joni album! [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: The long lost Joni album! [Lc Stanley ] Re: The long lost Joni album! [Dan Olson ] Jane Lynch Comment on Joni/Glee [MattJones ] Re: The long lost Joni album! [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: The long lost Joni album! [Lc Stanley ] Re: Jane Lynch Comment on Joni/Glee [Em ] RE: The long lost Joni album! ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Facebook NJC [Lieve Reckers ] Re: Golden Globes/The Kids Are Alright et al - njc [Richard Goldman ] Re: Golden Globes/The Kids Are Alright et al - njc [Janet Hess ] Re: The long lost Joni album! [Lc Stanley ] Re: Facebook NJC [Anita G ] Dr. Martin Luther King Jr Day, njc [Jim ] RE: The long lost Joni album! NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Facebook NJC [Anita G ] Re: Facebook NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Facebook NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: Facebook NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: Facebook NJC [Jim ] Re: Facebook NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: Facebook NJC [T Peckham ] Re: Facebook NJC [Lori Fye ] Re: Facebook NJC [T Peckham ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:03:09 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: Facebook NJC Hi List, I'm a lurker, so my opinion's probably not worth much on this one. But I'm with Lieve, who has eloquently articulated his position. And to be honest, I find the dismissal of his concerns cavalier, and almost condescending. It feels to me that the Facebook lines are been drawn, both within and beyond the JMDL. Best, David On Jan 17, 2011, at 12:00 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:29:42 EST > From: FMYFL@aol.com > Subject: Re: Fw: Facebook > > Dear Mark, > > Even though you created the group by mistake, I have loved it. Just to see > old friends post on the FB JMDL is wonderful. Julius's "Starry Night" > paintings, and Rob's newest video which cracked me up this morning. If there are > anymore derogotary remarks on here, and you decide to take it down, I'm > going to just put it back up. It's their loss!!!!! This list will still go on, > but why not expand? > > Some people are just running behind the times, just like this old train. > > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:09:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Golden Globes/The Kids Are Alright - njc Pity that was not reported here in the UK. They only mention in the first place Colin Firth's Best Actor award (for The King's Speech) and the fact that The Social Network has scooped up most other awards. Reading this here, I had to go and dig quite deep to find confirmation of it. Actually, The Kids got Best Film for Comedy or Musical, while The Social Network got Best Film for Drama. Pity how much national slant is applied to reporting: best actor is headline because he is British, best actress is not mentioned because she is American! Anyway, delighted to hear of the the success of Kids. Lieve - ----- Original Message ---- From: Gerald Notaro To: T Peckham Cc: JMDL Sent: Mon, 17 January, 2011 3:44:18 Subject: Re: Golden Globes/The Kids Are Alright - njc Well it won also for best film so here's hoping for more exposure. Jerry On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 9:08 PM, T Peckham wrote: > Annette Bening just won for best actress (over her co-star, Julianne > Moore). > I haven't seen the film yet--I hope it has more nominations and wins and > that brings more publicity to the film. > > -- > "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." > ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:03:46 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Same Situation Youtube 1974 Joe wrote: > We have all over the years had to go with the changes and accept that this > is what makes her such a uniquely talented and interesting musician. Her > refusal to compromise her artistic integrity has lead to some amazing music > and personally while i have not always understood what she was trying to do > she has never failed to capture my imagination and keep me guessing. > > Hope your mum is feeling better soon.Take care. > That's very well put, Joe, and I think your choice of words expresses very much how I feel about Joni. I'm sure you speak for many others,too. Thanks very much for your kind wishes regarding my Mum,too. Sadly, she has heart failure and we don't know how long she has. It could be minutes or months. The Joni line I keep hearing is 'Everything comes and goes' .I also remember all the many, many losses shared over the years at JMDL. Life can be challenging at times, but I believe that kind thoughts, like yours, make a difference, so many thanks Lots of love Anita ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:42:41 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Facebook NJC Hi, David, Your opinion as a reader is important. I have to agree with much of what you say, except that Lieve is a woman, and an exquisitely beautiful woman, at that. But these things are inevitable. Some will drift to Facebook because it fits their lifestyle, some will be list only, like myself. Some will do both, additional members will join both. Ob-La-Di,-Ob-La-Da.... The mistake some people make is thinking that those who don't social network are behind the times. Not at all. In my case I don't text, I don't Facebook or MySpace, nor do I own a Kindle, and I still get the newspaper delivered to my door every day. It is a choice. It is less intrusive on me personally. It is what I prefer. I also run a huge, very up to date instructional technology department for a university and love all kinds of technology. I use it, mostly before others, and do get it. I have a complicated GPS and THX ll system in my car, was the first person I know to have an iPhone, or a DVD player. I was the first faculty member in my State to set up a listserv. . I set up all of my friends and family computers, sound systems, alarm systems cell phones, etc. I am not afraid of it or behind the times, it is what I choose for particular applications. The end is NOT near. Regards, Jerry On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:03 AM, David Marine wrote: > Hi List, > > I'm a lurker, so my opinion's probably not worth much on this one. But I'm > with Lieve, who has eloquently articulated his position. And to be honest, > I > find the dismissal of his concerns cavalier, and almost condescending. It > feels to me that the Facebook lines are been drawn, both within and beyond > the > JMDL. > > Best, > > David > > > On Jan 17, 2011, at 12:00 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > > > > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:29:42 EST > > From: FMYFL@aol.com > > Subject: Re: Fw: Facebook > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > Even though you created the group by mistake, I have loved it. Just to > see > > old friends post on the FB JMDL is wonderful. Julius's "Starry Night" > > paintings, and Rob's newest video which cracked me up this morning. If > there are > > anymore derogotary remarks on here, and you decide to take it down, I'm > > going to just put it back up. It's their loss!!!!! This list will still > go > on, > > but why not expand? > > > > Some people are just running behind the times, just like this old train. > > > > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:02:11 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: re: Same Situation You Tube Michael wrote:Some of you know that I'm a huge fan of Joni's piano tunes. Well, I was cruzinYoutube today and I came across a fella who does some wonderful Joni covers(search Youtube for Cuzandeffect), and through him I found this Joni footagefrom a 1974 concert.This has to be the best live Joni footage I've ever seen, on par with the PinkDress Concert. She seems so relaxed here and is absolutely at the top of hergame. Her piano playing is a marvel to watch. Treat yourself to a double billof Same Situation and Just Like This Train, with the LA Express, in London.Superb stuff.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPrsOn_TsqIMichael in Quebec Wow, Michael nice find! Man she was in GREAT voice that night. While others may think that she looks gorgeous, I think she is emaciated and kinda unhealthy looking beneath all the glamour and makeup. I wonder how deep into the tour this date occurred. I agree that is the best live version of "The Same Situation" I've ever heard. This is a professionally produced video with a carefully balanced mix. I wonder where it's from. CC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:26:48 -0500 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: Nissan Live video of River RE: Anyone seen this yet? What a great version of this song ... amazing thanks for sharing it. I also suspected, like Catherine, that the clips were from the Woman of Heart and Mind DVD. So as with most youtube.com videos they give you other choices on the right of other videos with the same song or artist. They had the Herbie Hancock version with Joni from the Nissan Live Sets. MUCH TO MY AMAZEMENT, there is a shot of the audience with my Jonifest pals Pete and Lesli!!! Please tell us more about your attendance at this amazing event!!! Here's the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydGOpIwFy9g&feature=fvw Sue - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:20 AM To: T Peckham; JMDL Subject: Re: Anyone seen this yet? Some of this footage, maybe all, for that matter, but certainly the opening shots of Saskatchewan and trains, is taken from the "Woman of heart and mind" DVD. Very nicely done. I had to laugh at the snarky message someone posted underneath: "This is cool. Thank you. But anyone else who feels compelled to post theiro;? cover version of this song, please don't. There's already way too many douche bags who've posted theirs. FYI, bitches: You're never gonna better the original so don't give up your day jobs,o;? ya dig?" > Subject: Anyone seen this yet? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCwlEnuXYsE > > This is a beautiful recording of "River" from the Oct. 1970 Royal Albert > Hall concert (so it says). But what intrigues me are the images used in the > video. Some of them look like home movie footage of Joni and Graham, and > there are stills from the Joel Bernstein Lake Mendota, WI shoot for *Hejira*. > Does anyone know if this is (legally) available? The same person also posted > a video of the album version of "Blonde in the Bleachers," including shots > that were obviously taken at the Monterey concert, but also interspersed > with stuff like contact sheets of Joni and Graham and other brief film > snippets of CSNY that I've never seen before. Wondering if most of this is > well-known to some here and I'm just discovering it way late?? The videos > were posted about a month ago, and the person's YouTube page says he/she is > 26 and in the UK. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:27:35 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: The long lost Joni album! http://tinyurl.com/6xb568s Bob NP: Ani, "Jukebox" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 07:49:09 -0800 (PST) From: Lc Stanley Subject: Re: The long lost Joni album! Is "Baubles, bangles and beads" the code title for Ladies of the Canyon? ________________________________ From: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 9:27:35 AM Subject: The long lost Joni album! http://tinyurl.com/6xb568s Bob NP: Ani, "Jukebox" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:45:22 -0600 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: The long lost Joni album! The seller on eBay apparently thinks everyone named "Joni" is Joni Mitchell. I have two cousins named Joni, but they aren't Joni Mitchell either. On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:27 AM, wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/6xb568s > > Bob > > NP: Ani, "Jukebox" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 07:48:36 -0800 (PST) From: MattJones Subject: Jane Lynch Comment on Joni/Glee This morning, I heard a bit of Jane Lynch's post-Golden Globes interview (along with her other Glee cast members). When asked what music or artist she'd like to see featured in a future episode, her first response, with no hesitation, was "Joni Mitchell...." While I'm not particularly fond of the way in which the voice of Glee cast members are processed in the show, I think a Joni episode would be awesome! So, I've been procrastinating this morning by thinking which songs would work.... Other thoughts on a Joni episode of Glee? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:56:15 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: The long lost Joni album! Not the first time, and probably not the last, that a Joni James record gets listed as a Joni Mitchell record. That's interesting that you have TWO relatives named Joni. Bob NP: Bruce Springsteen, "Atlantic City" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 07:54:04 -0800 (PST) From: Lc Stanley Subject: Re: The long lost Joni album! Is "The party's over" what happened to People's Parties? Did she do "Smoke gets in your eyes" for those who stand too close to her? Was "Bewitched, bothered and bewildered" before or after Blue? ________________________________ From: "Bob.Muller@Fluor.com" To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 9:27:35 AM Subject: The long lost Joni album! http://tinyurl.com/6xb568s Bob NP: Ani, "Jukebox" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:02:39 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Jane Lynch Comment on Joni/Glee other thought: Joni makes a cameo appearance. :) Em - --- On Mon, 1/17/11, MattJones wrote: From: MattJones Subject: Jane Lynch Comment on Joni/Glee To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org, joni@smoe.org Date: Monday, January 17, 2011, 10:48 AM This morning, I heard a bit of Jane Lynch's post-Golden Globes interview (along with her other Glee cast members). When asked what music or artist she'd like to see featured in a future episode, her first response, with no hesitation, was "Joni Mitchell...." While I'm not particularly fond of the way in which the voice of Glee cast members are processed in the show, I think a Joni episode would be awesome! So, I've been procrastinating this morning by thinking which songs would work.... Other thoughts on a Joni episode of Glee? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 11:40:32 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: The long lost Joni album! Joni made her own version of this record. It's called Both Sides Now. Ducking for cover . . . > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 10:28 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: The long lost Joni album! > > http://tinyurl.com/6xb568s > > Bob > > NP: Ani, "Jukebox" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:42:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Facebook NJC I wasn't going to wade in, because a lot of people are fed up with the topic already and also, I don't want to make this too personal, but I guess a short reply is warranted. First of all thanks for that exquisite (even if exaggerated but still much enjoyed) compliment, Jerry! And thanks to David for speaking up too. I'll try to keep it short, on the FB issue. I also think that the comment about "running behind the time" is unfortunate and incorrect. I hope we don't live in times where we are forced or expected to behave like sheep and join something we don't like. It is true that we have to accept the consequences of that. But so do the people who decide to move their correspondence to FB. And that is all I was asking: let's face the fact and be honest. Let's realise that some people won't move to FB, and that they will miss out if you move your discussion there. In other words, we all have to live with the consequences: 1) those who refuse to join FB are missing out on some discussions, and 2) those who join FB and conduct discussions there, are excluding some of their old JMDL pals. Both stances are allowed, but they should be acknowledged. For a long time I was not aware that I was missing out on FB conversations, and at least now I know and I can decide whether to join up. In my case the decision is not to join, but maybe others will do so. And on the other side, some FaceBookers may now realise that they are excluding some of us, and may decide to put some discussions back on the list. (Highly unlikely, but it's possible!) Everything else will be decided with time. The seasons come and go, nobody can stop the tide, and all that... Lieve in London ________________________________ From: Gerald Notaro To: David Marine Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Mon, 17 January, 2011 14:42:41 Subject: Re: Facebook NJC Hi, David, Your opinion as a reader is important. I have to agree with much of what you say, except that Lieve is a woman, and an exquisitely beautiful woman, at that. But these things are inevitable. Some will drift to Facebook because it fits their lifestyle, some will be list only, like myself. Some will do both, additional members will join both. Ob-La-Di,-Ob-La-Da.... The mistake some people make is thinking that those who don't social network are behind the times. Not at all. In my case I don't text, I don't Facebook or MySpace, nor do I own a Kindle, and I still get the newspaper delivered to my door every day. It is a choice. It is less intrusive on me personally. It is what I prefer. I also run a huge, very up to date instructional technology department for a university and love all kinds of technology. I use it, mostly before others, and do get it. I have a complicated GPS and THX ll system in my car, was the first person I know to have an iPhone, or a DVD player. I was the first faculty member in my State to set up a listserv. . I set up all of my friends and family computers, sound systems, alarm systems cell phones, etc. I am not afraid of it or behind the times, it is what I choose for particular applications. The end is NOT near. Regards, Jerry On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:03 AM, David Marine wrote: > Hi List, > > I'm a lurker, so my opinion's probably not worth much on this one. But I'm > with Lieve, who has eloquently articulated his position. And to be honest, > I > find the dismissal of his concerns cavalier, and almost condescending. It > feels to me that the Facebook lines are been drawn, both within and beyond > the > JMDL. > > Best, > > David > > > On Jan 17, 2011, at 12:00 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > > > > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:29:42 EST > > From: FMYFL@aol.com > > Subject: Re: Fw: Facebook > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > Even though you created the group by mistake, I have loved it. Just to > see > > old friends post on the FB JMDL is wonderful. Julius's "Starry Night" > > paintings, and Rob's newest video which cracked me up this morning. If > there are > > anymore derogotary remarks on here, and you decide to take it down, I'm > > going to just put it back up. It's their loss!!!!! This list will still > go > on, > > but why not expand? > > > > Some people are just running behind the times, just like this old train. > > > > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:14:55 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: Golden Globes/The Kids Are Alright et al - njc Is it just me, from reading about Cherry Vanilla, The Beverly Wilshire, et al? or does everyone, when they see Warren Beatty, as we did last night, with Annette Benning at the Golden Globes, think that once upon a time that man dated Joni?... (and god knows how many other woman... ). So glad "The Kids" won the GG, though it won't beat out "Social Network" for the Oscar best picture, I predict. However, based on the winning speeches last night, Annette may just beat out Natalie, when Academy members (who've already submitted nominations) get to vote (deadline Feb. 22) for winners in their one best actress catetory... Was anyone else just tickled pink (I was verklempt) that Glee won? Chris Colfer's speech? and Jane Lynch's hilarity and thanking her wife? Loved it. Once again, at least partially, the GG's were the year of the queer. ~Richard Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 22:44:18 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Golden Globes/The Kids Are Alright - njc Well it won also for best film so here's hoping for more exposure. Jerry On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 9:08 PM, T Peckham wrote: > Annette Bening just won for best actress (over her co-star, Julianne > Moore). > I haven't seen the film yet--I hope it has more nominations and wins and > that brings more publicity to the film. > > -- > "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." > ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:17:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Facebook NJC Oh dear, I wanted that to be my last post on the subject. But the format was so bad (I had forgotten to go to plain text) and also I think I did not phrase those 2 numbered points about consequences very well, so let me just quickly repost this for better understanding. Really hoping this to be the end of it, at least for a good while! Lieve - ----- Original Message ---- I wasn't going to wade in, because a lot of people are fed up with the topic already and also, I don't want to make this too personal, but I guess a short reply is warranted. First of all thanks for that exquisite (even if exaggerated but still much enjoyed) compliment, Jerry! And thanks to David for speaking up too. I'll try to keep it short, on the FB issue. I also think that the comment about "running behind the time" is unfortunate and incorrect. I hope we don't live in times where we are forced or expected to behave like sheep and join something we don't like. It is true that we have to accept the consequences of that. But so do the people who decide to move their correspondence to FB. And that is all I was asking: let's face the fact and be honest. Let's realise that some people won't move to FB, and that they will miss out if you move your discussion there. In other words, we all have to live with the consequences: 1) those who refuse to join FB must realise they are missing out on some discussions, and 2) those who join FB and conduct discussions there, should be honest enough to accept that they are excluding some of their old JMDL pals, and think how this will ultimately weaken the JMDL. Both stances are allowed, but they should be acknowledged. For a long time I was not aware that I was missing out on FB conversations, and at least now I know and I can decide whether to join up. In my case the decision is not to join, but maybe others will do so. And on the other side, some FaceBookers may now realise that they are excluding some of us, and may decide to put some discussions back on the list. Highly unlikely, but it's possible!) Everything else will be decided with time. The seasons come and go, nobody can stop the tide, and all that... Lieve in London ________________________________ From: Gerald Notaro To: David Marine Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Mon, 17 January, 2011 14:42:41 Subject: Re: Facebook NJC Hi, David, Your opinion as a reader is important. I have to agree with much of what you say, except that Lieve is a woman, and an exquisitely beautiful woman, at that. But these things are inevitable. Some will drift to Facebook because it fits their lifestyle, some will be list only, like myself. Some will do both, additional members will join both. Ob-La-Di,-Ob-La-Da.... The mistake some people make is thinking that those who don't social network are behind the times. Not at all. In my case I don't text, I don't Facebook or MySpace, nor do I own a Kindle, and I still get the newspaper delivered to my door every day. It is a choice. It is less intrusive on me personally. It is what I prefer. I also run a huge, very up to date instructional technology department for a university and love all kinds of technology. I use it, mostly before others, and do get it. I have a complicated GPS and THX ll system in my car, was the first person I know to have an iPhone, or a DVD player. I was the first faculty member in my State to set up a listserv. . I set up all of my friends and family computers, sound systems, alarm systems cell phones, etc. I am not afraid of it or behind the times, it is what I choose for particular applications. The end is NOT near. Regards, Jerry On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:03 AM, David Marine wrote: > Hi List, > > I'm a lurker, so my opinion's probably not worth much on this one. But I'm > with Lieve, who has eloquently articulated his position. And to be honest, > I > find the dismissal of his concerns cavalier, and almost condescending. It > feels to me that the Facebook lines are been drawn, both within and beyond > the > JMDL. > > Best, > > David > > > On Jan 17, 2011, at 12:00 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > > > > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:29:42 EST > > From: FMYFL@aol.com > > Subject: Re: Fw: Facebook > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > Even though you created the group by mistake, I have loved it. Just to > see > > old friends post on the FB JMDL is wonderful. Julius's "Starry Night" > > paintings, and Rob's newest video which cracked me up this morning. If > there are > > anymore derogotary remarks on here, and you decide to take it down, I'm > > going to just put it back up. It's their loss!!!!! This list will still > go > on, > > but why not expand? > > > > Some people are just running behind the times, just like this old train. > > > > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 12:34:59 -0500 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Golden Globes/The Kids Are Alright et al - njc After watching The Kids Are All Right, I've found that when I see Warren Beatty I think Aha! Annette Benning's beard! At 12:14 PM 1/17/2011, Richard Goldman wrote: >Is it just me, from reading about Cherry Vanilla, The Beverly Wilshire, et >al? or does everyone, when they see Warren Beatty, as we did last night, >with Annette Benning at the Golden Globes, think that once upon a time that >man dated Joni?... (and god knows how many other woman... ). > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:47:17 -0800 (PST) From: Lc Stanley Subject: Re: Facebook NJC Hi Jerry, Very well said as always. I agree with you about choices. And, to-each-their own doesn't have to create polarity but rather can be a continuum with multiple facets and overlapping. Those who use facebook need not look down on and criticize those who don't, and at the same time, those who don't use facebook need not look down on and criticize those who do. I love it that Lieve wants to preserve the longevity of the list... me too. I think the best way to do that is to respect individual choices. People can do what they do, say what they think, and feel good about it. This type of freedom and acceptance has been the best experience for me on this list. Happy MLK day!!! Love, Laura ________________________________ From: Gerald Notaro To: David Marine Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 8:42:41 AM Subject: Re: Facebook NJC Hi, David, Your opinion as a reader is important. I have to agree with much of what you say, except that Lieve is a woman, and an exquisitely beautiful woman, at that. But these things are inevitable. Some will drift to Facebook because it fits their lifestyle, some will be list only, like myself. Some will do both, additional members will join both. Ob-La-Di,-Ob-La-Da.... The mistake some people make is thinking that those who don't social network are behind the times. Not at all. In my case I don't text, I don't Facebook or MySpace, nor do I own a Kindle, and I still get the newspaper delivered to my door every day. It is a choice. It is less intrusive on me personally. It is what I prefer. I also run a huge, very up to date instructional technology department for a university and love all kinds of technology. I use it, mostly before others, and do get it. I have a complicated GPS and THX ll system in my car, was the first person I know to have an iPhone, or a DVD player. I was the first faculty member in my State to set up a listserv. . I set up all of my friends and family computers, sound systems, alarm systems cell phones, etc. I am not afraid of it or behind the times, it is what I choose for particular applications. The end is NOT near. Regards, Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:54:44 -0800 (PST) From: Lc Stanley Subject: Re: The long lost Joni album! LMAO!!!! ________________________________ From: Richard Flynn To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com; joni@smoe.org Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 10:40:32 AM Subject: RE: The long lost Joni album! Joni made her own version of this record. It's called Both Sides Now. Ducking for cover . . . > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 10:28 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: The long lost Joni album! > > http://tinyurl.com/6xb568s > > Bob > > NP: Ani, "Jukebox" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:59:08 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Facebook NJC I have had time today to read many of the posts about FB and JMDL and the Joni line that comes to me is, once again, Everything Comes and Goes, (marked by lovers and styles of clothes). Perhaps the latter day spin might also be 'marked by Face Book and choice of apps.' As with all things, the JMDL will run its course with people coming and going, as will, in time, Face Book. They will both end at some point. It seems to me that the thread running underneath this discussion is one of loss (loss of old connections) along with the ever present group dynamic of who's in and who's out. Lieve describes it as 'excluding'. Of course, we're all 'in or out' (excluded) at different times of our lives with different people (families in particular), and it's no different on JMDL or FB. However, it can be painful when it stimulates or resonates with old feelings. A simple example for me is when I send a post that no-one responds to. Am I in or out? Am I in tune with the discussion or not? I know there have been several discussions of how that feels and I know I am not alone in that worry! I am sure that there are many different ways we can connect with each other and, like Gerry says, it it is a choice. I don't want to join FB and I don't feel under any pressure to join. I like it here. I accept there will be things I may miss out on. Sometimes, I might feel hurt by that but that's the consequence of the choice I've made. It may well be that JMDL runs its course, but those who love it it will stay, some will love it for a bit and move on and some will join and find it the most boring place they've ever been! I feel there's lots of room for everything. But I always seem to experience the posts I write here as woolly liberal! Can't help myself Anita ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 12:59:37 -0500 From: Jim Subject: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr Day, njc Here in the US, today is a national holiday remembering Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. The stock market, banks, schools, and the postal service are all closed today. It doesn't seem like MLK day without Simon posting the "I Have A Dream" speech. Here's the Wiki entry for the speech: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_a_Dream Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 12:58:18 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: The long lost Joni album! NJC I thought the same thing after my original post of that, Richard. And not to worry, nobody will take a potshot at you on your BIRTHDAY. Happy Birthday and thanks for all that you bring to this community. Bob NP: The Brains, "See Me" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:10:35 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Facebook NJC I wrote: "Of course, we're all 'in or out' (excluded) at different times of our lives with different people (families in particular), and it's no different on JMDL or FB. " What I should have written is that "we all may FEEL 'in or out' at different times of our lives etc. etc." It is always possible that we are being deliberately being excluded from something, but there's also a very good chance (more often than not) that it's a projection and has no basis in fact. I wanted to correct my words in an effort to be more clear, Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:10:40 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Facebook NJC My dear, you are eternally and forever "in". Now that's settled. As for the FB thing...as has been said before, it's apples and oranges. Lieve, there are exactly ZERO serious discussions going on there. There are posts of photos, videos, paintings and such where the formatting of FB allows you to look at the post, and immediately see directly below it who said what. It's fun, and it's different. Think of it in terms of a Jonifest - there are some people who don't want to go to them, and of course they realize that things will happen there that they will not be privy to. But I can't think of anyone being ridiculed for NOT coming to one. And like FB, some of what goes on at the fests gets shared on the list and some doesn't. Bob NP: Genesis, "Squonk" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:50:49 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Facebook NJC I erred in quoting Jimmy, who mentioned being behind the times "just like this train ..." I shouldn't have done that, as I don't think anyone who chooses to not use Facebook is behind the times at all. I also misread the "heatedness" of this discussion. I guess things weren't as heated as I thought, although I found myself reading complaints about being added to a Facebook group without permission. That is an issue that Facebook should probably resolve, although -- again -- I overstepped by adding all of my JMDL/FB friends to Mark's group. I noticed that most are still members of that group, so I suppose it wasn't a horrendous faux pas on my part. Still ... I should have asked everyone first. I actually did ask two people, because I was aware that they'd left the "big" list years and years ago due to (in one case) an unfortunate circumstance and (in the the other case) due to just being too busy. Interestingly, both people I asked accepted the opportunity to join the Facebook group. Those were my efforts at "expanding" our family once, as I certainly would rather expand it than give even the slightest impression that I want anyone to be excluded. Like Lieve, I sometimes lament the "loss" of the handwritten letter, even though I haven't written a letter with pen in hand in a very long time (save for once, kind of recently, when my therapist wanted to see a sample of my handwriting). I don't write letters by hand because my hands soon go numb. I have better luck with a keyboard, be it the keyboard of a typewriter (a machine I adore, especially if it's a manual machine) or that of a computer. Because of the hand problems and due to decreased time in my life, for me, email has caused me to communicate more than I might otherwise. Facebook has added another layer of ability to communicate with people with whom I'd lost touch for years and years. It has the added advantage of, at a minimum, allowing me to see the faces of my friends as I communicate with them. The JMDL Facebook group reminds me of the old days of AOL chat rooms, where 48 people would end up in a space that sort of resembled "all the people at this party" -- only now we have photos to go with the conversation. Photos of the participants, photos of what's going on in their lives, links to this and that. One of the features I most enjoy about Facebook is the ability to upload a photo from my phone in real time. "I'm here, just saw this, wanted to share." All of the above aside, though, I cannot conceive of ever leaving this "big" list. This is HOME for me, at least in terms of the friends I've made via the Joni Mitchell Discussion List. I agree that those of us on the Facebook group should make every effort to share the links, photos, et cetera that we share "over there" with the big list "over here." Unless one is truly crunched for time or unless one has decided to depart from the "big" list altogether, it's not that hard to do. So ... let's do it! : ) As for derogatory comments being made here or there or anywhere, life would be so much more pleasant if we all remembered the old adage: If you don't have something nice to say about someone, then don't say anything at all. Lori Santa Rosa, CA www.facebook.com/lrfye ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:52:23 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Facebook NJC That should've been "expanding our family once again ..." Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 11:14:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Subject: Re: Facebook NJC As a relatively newbee to both the list and FB, I definitely prefer the list and don't care for some of the occasional annoying eMails I get from FB which I don't understand and can't figure out because I don't know how to use FB totally. But like Bob says, I don't see any significant discussion going on on FB. But one great thing about FB is that you can learn more about a person when you drop onto their FB page. I went looking for this FB discussion yesterday and didn't see it but while on FB I learned what Michael Paz's top 15 albums of all time were which was quite interesting. And it made me pull on the Jack Neilson CD he gave to me and listen to it again. And it is now in my top 15 too. Also in most cases, you get to put a "face" with a name on FB which is nice. But no matter how many more "neat things" I learn on FB, it cannot and will not take the place of this list and I don't think there should be any concern otherwise. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 11:27:28 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Facebook NJC We can certainly do the "top 15" albums here, too. It's been done before, but I never tire of it. Lori, heading out to do chores in the fog in Santa Rosa, CA www.facebook.com/lrfye ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:18:57 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Facebook NJC Thanks, Bob, for saying what I wanted to say! I just want to add that I'm sure there are many many folks like me here who would love to attend a Jonifest, be it large or small, but for a variety of reasons have not. Some of us may not be able to afford to travel; some of us may be disabled in some way (physically and/or mentally) that makes leaving home difficult; some may simply be extremely shy. There are many things that might prevent one from meeting other Listers in person. My specific point is that some people (especially long-time "lurkers") may feel left out of a lot of conversations amongst those who have spent time w/each other in person, particularly at the larger fests. This isn't being done deliberately--that's just how it is. Nobody is concerned that the List will dwindle down to ONLY those Jonilistas who've met in person. Hell, I'm not even sure I *want* to meet any of you people in person . . . LOL (Just throwing some lightness on these things, laughing it all away . . . ) :-) Terra On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 12:10 PM, wrote: > > > My dear, you are eternally and forever "in". Now that's settled. > > As for the FB thing...as has been said before, it's apples and oranges. > Lieve, there are exactly ZERO serious discussions going on there. There > are posts of photos, videos, paintings and such where the formatting of FB > allows you to look at the post, and immediately see directly below it who > said what. It's fun, and it's different. Think of it in terms of a > Jonifest - there are some people who don't want to go to them, and of > course they realize that things will happen there that they will not be > privy to. But I can't think of anyone being ridiculed for NOT coming to > one. And like FB, some of what goes on at the fests gets shared on the > list and some doesn't. > > Bob > > NP: Genesis, "Squonk" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 12:46:49 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Facebook NJC > My specific point is that some people (especially long-time "lurkers") may > feel left out of a lot of conversations amongst those who have spent time > w/each other in person, particularly at the larger fests. I'm confused about one point only: if someone is a "lurker" then they are, by definition, not really participating in conversations. So how are they feeling "left out"? Not meaning to cause argument. Just curious. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:00:52 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Facebook NJC Dear Lori, Oh, shut up. :-D So it wasn't my best thought-out point. I'm on deadline, gimme a break, wouldja?!? LOL xoxoxo, Blabbymouth On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Lori Fye wrote: > > My specific point is that some people (especially long-time "lurkers") > may > > feel left out of a lot of conversations amongst those who have spent time > > w/each other in person, particularly at the larger fests. > > I'm confused about one point only: if someone is a "lurker" then they are, > by definition, not really participating in conversations. So how are they > feeling "left out"? > > Not meaning to cause argument. Just curious. > > Lori > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #17 **************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------