From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2011 #14 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Saturday, January 15 2011 Volume 2011 : Number 014 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing [Mike Pritchard ] RE: Miss O'Dell [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: Miss O'Dell [Catherine McKay ] Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni [] RE: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Ophiuchus and the zodiac, njc [Lc Stanley ] RE: Ophiuchus and the zodiac, njc [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: Ophiuchus and the zodiac, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Buckingham Nicks NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Reno Sweeney's - njc [Gerald Notaro ] LEGENDS OF THE CANYON [Michael Paz ] Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni [Catherine McKay ] Re: Buckingham Nicks NJC [T Peckham ] Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing [Jim ] Re: up for discussion NJC "Money For Nothing" [Jim ] Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni [] Re: up for discussion NJC "Money For Nothing" [Michael Paz ] Re: Reno Sweeney's [dflahm@aol.com] Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing [Bob Muller Subject: Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing Bob Muller said. >>And in another case of synchronicity, I was driving to work this AM and what should come on but The Heroes of Hiphopracy's "The Language Of Violence" which also features that same word, along with many others. Also was very powerful relative to its message regarding the recent tragedies in Tucson. Mike Pritchard - this track was on one of the CD's you gave me in Barcelona. I listen to them and enjoy them to this day.<< I say. You are welcome, Bob. Its just a drop in the ocean compared to all the good music I have got to know through you and the other members of this wonderful list. mike in bcn NPOMBS (NP on my blipfm Station) Boz Scaggs - Lowdown ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:47:07 +0000 From: Joe Jones Subject: Re: Miss O'dell Thanks, excellent, very elucidatory. Cheers - Joe *My Hard Days and Long Nights with The Beatles, The* Stones, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, and the Women They Loved by Chris O'Dell publ 2009 *Very readable account of young........* - -- - -- Joe Jones +44 7831 914094 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:36:44 -0500 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell That was my new year's resolution last year!!! :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 1:36 PM To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Lieve Reckers; Randy Remote; Joni Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell Well, I guess all any of us really needs to do is to be young, beautiful and incredibly talented, and then we'll have no trouble finding a date. That's my new year's resolution - for next year. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Lieve Reckers ; Catherine McKay >; Randy Remote ; Joni > > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 12:10:32 PM > Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell > > I agree here Lieve. I was talking to a friend of mine the other night. He >asked me why I loved Joni so much (he is not a fan), and I said that I envy so >much the ability she has to use her amazing gift to its fullest. I don't think >it's a matter of privilege, since she came from pretty humble beginnings, but an >overwhelming drive to put art first. Maybe it's the nature of her gift that it >demands to be first, but not all of us have that courage. It's pretty amazing. >I can paint pretty good but my art is like a neglected child that starves in a >corner while I carry on with more mundane tasks. Boo hoo. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lieve Reckers [mailto:lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:05 AM > To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Catherine McKay; Randy Remote; Joni > Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell > > I also think Joni had the easy part here: she had already come out the > "winner". And she admitted herself she would not be so cool about it if she >had > > been in O'Dell's place. > > It has also been occurring to me recently that, however much I think she was > genuine when she wrote about heartache in her lyrics, she had some enormous > advantages to help her get over the latest break-up, compared to most of us: > there was always another attractive, talented, much-adored-by-others candidate > ready to help her forget the previous painful experience. Not all of us are > that lucky. > > I don't mean to be bitchy or gossipy, but this realisation really put some of > the pain of her lyrics into perspective for me. So many unhappy, sensitive > people in their lonely bedroom identified with those lyrics, and that is good, >I > > am not devaluing the lyrics, but I just think that Joni was much less in a > comparable situation than most of those people would ever guess. You can say > that is further proof of Joni's talent, to maintain this universal appeal, and > that is true. But I certainly have come to realise that on a personal level, >at > > least when it comes to love and romance (not talking about the polio or the > adoption of her child etc.), she is not really "one of us" but one of the very > lucky few. > > Lieve > ________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell Well, I guess all any of us really needs to do is to be young, beautiful and incredibly talented, and then we'll have no trouble finding a date. That's my new year's resolution - for next year. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Lieve Reckers ; Catherine McKay >; Randy Remote ; Joni > > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 12:10:32 PM > Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell > > I agree here Lieve. I was talking to a friend of mine the other night. He >asked me why I loved Joni so much (he is not a fan), and I said that I envy so >much the ability she has to use her amazing gift to its fullest. I don't think >it's a matter of privilege, since she came from pretty humble beginnings, but an >overwhelming drive to put art first. Maybe it's the nature of her gift that it >demands to be first, but not all of us have that courage. It's pretty amazing. >I can paint pretty good but my art is like a neglected child that starves in a >corner while I carry on with more mundane tasks. Boo hoo. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lieve Reckers [mailto:lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:05 AM > To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Catherine McKay; Randy Remote; Joni > Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell > > I also think Joni had the easy part here: she had already come out the > "winner". And she admitted herself she would not be so cool about it if she >had > > been in O'Dell's place. > > It has also been occurring to me recently that, however much I think she was > genuine when she wrote about heartache in her lyrics, she had some enormous > advantages to help her get over the latest break-up, compared to most of us: > there was always another attractive, talented, much-adored-by-others candidate > ready to help her forget the previous painful experience. Not all of us are > that lucky. > > I don't mean to be bitchy or gossipy, but this realisation really put some of > the pain of her lyrics into perspective for me. So many unhappy, sensitive > people in their lonely bedroom identified with those lyrics, and that is good, >I > > am not devaluing the lyrics, but I just think that Joni was much less in a > comparable situation than most of those people would ever guess. You can say > that is further proof of Joni's talent, to maintain this universal appeal, and > that is true. But I certainly have come to realise that on a personal level, >at > > least when it comes to love and romance (not talking about the polio or the > adoption of her child etc.), she is not really "one of us" but one of the very > lucky few. > > Lieve > ________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:21:37 -0800 From: Subject: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni Wow, what interesting, back story tidbits from the periphery of the scene! Thanks for sharing them, Richard and RR. I'm not sure that Joni was luckier than the rest of us because she had more opportunity to bouce back and easily "find another lover." Sure, she probably had her pick of every guy around wanting to be with her. However, I look at it more that she had earlier experienced a lot of heartbreak, especially with James Taylor, and I think at some point she just sort of became a little hardened and cynical about it all and thought she'd roam around like so many others did back in the 70s. Interestingly, according to Joni, she also did not partake in recreational drugs back in the 60s but later joined the crowd in 70s. I think she became existentialistic with her heart for awhile then. Dating Jack Nicholson I can kind of see because he is original and interesting but Warren Beatty? Ugh. I still shudder. By the start of the 80s, she was seeking real love again as evidenced by her songs in WTRF. She found her friend and was renewed again, until he tore out her heart. Then she found Donald. But he left her, too, and she was very hurt again. On one of my encounters with her she talked a lot about him breaking up with her. I was very surprised she would pour out her feelings to me, who is pretty much a stranger. She was so vulnerable and the gist of what she bascially said was how love is supposed to be "kind, patient and suffereth long" but it did not work that way for her in the end. I think Joni has been through the whole spectrum just like the rest of us. By the way, I just heard someone pronounce that new Zodiac sign. It sounds like O Fee U Cuss. I never would have known! It now makes Joni a Libra! Kakki, still a Leo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:44:20 -0500 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni Thanks for the personal insights of your conversation with Joni, Kakki! I still think her ideal of love was described so beautifully in Jericho. Was she writing that about John Guerin? (another heartbreaker!) Take care, Sue - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of kbhla@fastmail.fm Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:22 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni Wow, what interesting, back story tidbits from the periphery of the scene! Thanks for sharing them, Richard and RR. I'm not sure that Joni was luckier than the rest of us because she had more opportunity to bouce back and easily "find another lover." Sure, she probably had her pick of every guy around wanting to be with her. However, I look at it more that she had earlier experienced a lot of heartbreak, especially with James Taylor, and I think at some point she just sort of became a little hardened and cynical about it all and thought she'd roam around like so many others did back in the 70s. Interestingly, according to Joni, she also did not partake in recreational drugs back in the 60s but later joined the crowd in 70s. I think she became existentialistic with her heart for awhile then. Dating Jack Nicholson I can kind of see because he is original and interesting but Warren Beatty? Ugh. I still shudder. By the start of the 80s, she was seeking real love again as evidenced by her songs in WTRF. She found her friend and was renewed again, until he tore out her heart. Then she found Donald. But he left her, too, and she was very hurt again. On one of my encounters with her she talked a lot about him breaking up with her. I was very surprised she would pour out her feelings to me, who is pretty much a stranger. She was so vulnerable and the gist of what she bascially said was how love is supposed to be "kind, patient and suffereth long" but it did not work that way for her in the end. I think Joni has been through the whole spectrum just like the rest of us. By the way, I just heard someone pronounce that new Zodiac sign. It sounds like O Fee U Cuss. I never would have known! It now makes Joni a Libra! Kakki, still a Leo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:40:28 -0600 From: Robert Procyk Subject: Buckingham Nicks NJC Since I'm the lovechild of Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks with a raging Oedipal Complex, you couldn't expect me NOT to chime in. I just have to say, Bob, that way back when, like 10 years or so ago, when I was lamenting BN not being released on CD, I was soon pleasantly surprised to find in my mailbox a burned copy of the album onto cd, complete with reproduced artwork. I have to tell you, I still think that's one of the nicest things someone has ever done for me (my Nicks addiction is fierce). And while all the Linsdsey-philes seem to pick "Frozen Love" as their fave track, and the Stevie-ites seem to choose "Long Distance Winner" as their favorite, I have to say my favorite track has always been "Races are Run." Why, I don't know, but it just is. I would have said "Crystal" is the masterpiece, but I have to say that the version on that song on the Fleetwood Mac White album is the better version. Anyway, another belated thank you, Bob - it's things like that that make this place so special. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:47:28 -0800 (PST) From: Lc Stanley Subject: Ophiuchus and the zodiac, njc You are right Jimmy. Ophiuchus, I'm really a Gemini. Joni is really a Libra. Here is what they are calling the "real" astrological calendar now that they've found the missing zodiac sign: Capricorn is now Jan. 20 to Feb. 16; Aquarius, Feb. 16-March 11; Pisces, March 11-April 18; Aries, April 18-May 13; Taurus, May 13-June 21; Gemini, June 21-July 20; Cancer, July 20-Aug. 10; Leo, Aug. 10-Sept. 16; Virgo, Sept. 16-Oct. 30; Libra, Oct. 30-Nov. 23; Scorpio, Nov. 23-29; Ophiuchus, Nov. 29-Dec. 17; Sagittarius, Dec. 17-Jan. 20." The full article is at: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11014/1117842-153.stm This is really big news if it is real. Wow. Love, Laura From: "FMYFL@aol.com" To: sillyseabird7@yahoo.com; margaret_elmtree@yahoo.ca; joni@smoe.org Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 5:39:01 AM Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing Laura, you might be a Gemini now that Ophuchicus has been added to the zodiac signs :-) Happy Friday Jimmy In a message dated 1/13/2011 10:08:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, sillyseabird7@yahoo.com writes: > I haven't mellowed enough to like being > thought of as a "cancer" though. If I had any other zodiac sign, I would > be > more apt to like it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:02:16 -0500 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Ophiuchus and the zodiac, njc Wow, I'm a cusp Capricorn/Aquarian now. Whatever that means!! :-) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Lc Stanley Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:47 PM To: Joni List Subject: Ophiuchus and the zodiac, njc You are right Jimmy. Ophiuchus, I'm really a Gemini. Joni is really a Libra. Here is what they are calling the "real" astrological calendar now that they've found the missing zodiac sign: Capricorn is now Jan. 20 to Feb. 16; Aquarius, Feb. 16-March 11; Pisces, March 11-April 18; Aries, April 18-May 13; Taurus, May 13-June 21; Gemini, June 21-July 20; Cancer, July 20-Aug. 10; Leo, Aug. 10-Sept. 16; Virgo, Sept. 16-Oct. 30; Libra, Oct. 30-Nov. 23; Scorpio, Nov. 23-29; Ophiuchus, Nov. 29-Dec. 17; Sagittarius, Dec. 17-Jan. 20." The full article is at: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11014/1117842-153.stm This is really big news if it is real. Wow. Love, Laura From: "FMYFL@aol.com" To: sillyseabird7@yahoo.com; margaret_elmtree@yahoo.ca; joni@smoe.org Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 5:39:01 AM Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing Laura, you might be a Gemini now that Ophuchicus has been added to the zodiac signs :-) Happy Friday Jimmy In a message dated 1/13/2011 10:08:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, sillyseabird7@yahoo.com writes: > I haven't mellowed enough to like being > thought of as a "cancer" though. If I had any other zodiac sign, I would > be > more apt to like it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:10:01 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing Fuck Canada!!! Oh!!! Pardon my French! And fuck censorship! Pardon again! Paz On Jan 13, 2011, at 3:52 PM, Mags wrote: okay, discussion list: please discuss. (!!!!!) http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/2011/01/money-for-nothing-should-the-song-be-banned-on-canadian-radio.html Mags, who really hopes you lot will chime in!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:10:59 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell BTW I agree very much with Sue! Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Jan 14, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Lieve Reckers wrote: I also think Joni had the easy part here: she had already come out the "winner". And she admitted herself she would not be so cool about it if she had been in O'Dell's place. It has also been occurring to me recently that, however much I think she was genuine when she wrote about heartache in her lyrics, she had some enormous advantages to help her get over the latest break-up, compared to most of us: there was always another attractive, talented, much-adored-by-others candidate ready to help her forget the previous painful experience. Not all of us are that lucky. I don't mean to be bitchy or gossipy, but this realisation really put some of the pain of her lyrics into perspective for me. So many unhappy, sensitive people in their lonely bedroom identified with those lyrics, and that is good, I am not devaluing the lyrics, but I just think that Joni was much less in a comparable situation than most of those people would ever guess. You can say that is further proof of Joni's talent, to maintain this universal appeal, and that is true. But I certainly have come to realise that on a personal level, at least when it comes to love and romance (not talking about the polio or the adoption of her child etc.), she is not really "one of us" but one of the very lucky few. Lieve ________________________________ From: Susan Tierney McNamara To: Catherine McKay ; Randy Remote ; Joni Sent: Fri, 14 January, 2011 15:29:20 Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell Yes, another reaction I had to the conversation is it was adult but it may have also been manipulative or condescending on Joni's part (although she did admit to being vulnerable). But for two women sleeping with the same man to stand in a room together and have a somewhat congenial conversation is amazing. I've been known to draw blood in such situations!!! :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:09 AM To: Susan Tierney McNamara; Randy Remote; Joni Subject: Re: Miss O'Dell Interesting because, the way I read it, while it can be seen as an "adult" conversation, it could also come across (maybe to my paranoid mind alone) as equally an extremely good manipulation on the part of Joni and an effective way of shutting the other person down before she can stir anything up. Maybe that's what adult conversations are, in some ways. There really is no good way of dealing with this stuff, not that I can think of: how to explain to someone whose boyfriend is already cheating on his wife that he's now cheating on her with you, but trying to make you feel good about it! Definitely better than a cat fight! (I know cat fights can be fun to watch too, so, mrow, MROW!) I agree with you about Joni's talking about men sometimes ad nauseum. She has to have at least one good female friend, possibly one who also plays pool! - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Susan Tierney McNamara > To: Randy Remote ; Joni > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 9:35:42 AM > Subject: RE: Miss O'Dell > > Thanks for this! I usually don't read these kind of books. The writing is > usually dismal! The thing that I like about it is a somewhat rare look into how > > > Joni relates to other women. I know she has had close women friends in her life > > > but her relationships with men are talked about much more (ad nauseum > sometimes). I love it when people have adult conversations about very > emotionally charged issues. How rare! Thanks, Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Randy > Remote > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:48 PM > To: Joni > Subject: Miss O'Dell > > Miss O'Dell > My Hard Days and Long Nights with The Beatles, The > Stones, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, and the Women They > Loved by Chris O'Dell > publ 2009 > > Very readable account of young American woman who gets a > job with Apple Records in London, eventually becoming best > friends with Patti Harrison, and is at ground zero as George and > Ringo's marriages implode. Many other exploits in the upper > strata and dark corners of rock and roll. > > First Joni mention is when O'Dell is managing CSNY's reunion > tour of '74 > At the Vancouver Airport we encountered a little problem. Joni > Mitchell was supposed to meet us at the airport, and she was > late. (I'd soon discover she was often late.) I used all my powers > of persuasion to convince the folks at the airport to hold the plane. > We were flying commercially, and we'd booked half the plane, > so they were willing to inconvenience the other passengers to > keep us happy. > > The other jc is during the Rolling Thunder Tour, road manager > O'Dell has begun a tour romance with playwright Sam Shepard, > married 32 year-old Ilinois farmboy, hired by Dylan to write a > screenplay. > A few weeks later, we were in Niagara Falls for two shows. After > the evening show I looked all over the place for Sam. I couldn't > find him anywhere. He wasn't in his hotel room. He didn't answer > his phone. Nobody had seen him. > The next morning I was headed downstairs for breakfast > when I heard someone call out, "Have you seen Sam?" > "Oh yeah, he was hanging with Joni Mitchell all evening," > someone else said. > Joni Mitchell? I thought. My heart was sinking. When I > saw Sam later that morning, I ignored him. He looked guilty. > A few nights later in Rochester, New York, he didn't show > up at the hospitality room after the show. That was where > I'd usually meet him and then we'd spend the rest of the > evening together. > Oh no, I thought, maybe this thing with Joni is more > than a flirtation. I went up to his room and knocked on the door. > "Who's there?" > "It's Chris." > Ten seconds. Thirty seconds. A minute passed. > He finally opened the door and then retreated to the bed > where he lay down, hands underneath his head, looking at > me with a sweet little smile. I sat down at the foot of the > bed, my back to the door. > "What's going on, Sam? Why aren't you downstairs?" > "I'm tired. I've just been lying around here." > Behind me I heard the door to his room open and close. > "Oh, what's that?" he said, all innocent like, looking over > my shoulder. > "Sam, who was here?" I knew perfectly well who it was. > Joni had been hiding in the bathroom, and when my back > was to the door, she sneaked out behind me. > "No one," he lied. > "You know what?" I said on my way out the door, > "You're a shit." > > As the tour continues, O'Dell decides to avoid both Joni and > Shepard, as much as possible, but in Bangor, Maine, while > delivering the next itinerary, Joni, in her dressing room, asks > O'Dell if she can sit down for a minute. > "How are you doing?" she said, putting her makeup on > the table and swiveling in her chair to look at me. Oh shit, > I thought. She wants to have "a talk." I wasn't real comfortable > with that idea. All I wanted to do was get out of there. > "I'm fine," I said cheerily. > "You know, I really admire the way that you're handling > this thing," she said. Of course, I knew what "thing" she was > referring to. > "You just seem so confident and able to deal with this," > she said. "I really respect that. I wish I could do the same." > I was stunned. Here we were, two women vying for the > same guy, but instead of doing that catty, competitive > female "I've got him," or "I hate you for having him" thing, > she was being real. Real. That really got to me. > Of course, we both knew deep down that neither one of > us "had" Sam- if he could cheat on his wife with me and then > cheat on me with Joni, he was going to cheat on Joni > sometime, too. What a crazy, conflicted situation: we were > both head over heels for a man who had a wife waiting for > him at home. > "Joni, you have no idea how much I appreciate what you > just said," I said. > And that's as far as we went with it. A few days later > Joni sang the song "Coyote" for the first time. It's a song > about Sam Shepard and how he had "a woman at home > and another woman down the hall" and he wanted her anyway. > I was the woman down the hall. I loved the lines Joni wrote > about how we licked our wounds and took temporary lovers, > using "pills and powders" to get us through the drama. > She was right. I had my pills, my powders, and my > whiskey to help me through the drama of those hard days > and nights. I knew I had to march forward-the show must > go on. > But that thing with Sam hurt like hell. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:30:08 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Ophiuchus and the zodiac, njc I'm now a Pisces. Now I have to change all my expectations of myself. Perhaps this life I've been living has been done all wrong! Damn you, stars! But really, there are OTHER astrological systems. The Celtic one also has 13 signs, named for various trees. In that system, I'm an Alder. Find yours here: http://www.irishastrology.com/celtic-astrology/celtic-tree-astrology.html That's just one I know about. I'm sure there are others in the different cultures. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lc Stanley > To: Joni List > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 2:47:28 PM > Subject: Ophiuchus and the zodiac, njc > > You are right Jimmy. Ophiuchus, I'm really a Gemini. Joni is really a Libra. > > > Here is what they are calling the "real" astrological calendar now that they've > > found the missing zodiac sign: > > Capricorn is now Jan. 20 to Feb. 16; > > Aquarius, Feb. 16-March 11; > > Pisces, March 11-April 18; > > Aries, April 18-May 13; > > Taurus, May 13-June 21; > > Gemini, June 21-July 20; > > Cancer, July 20-Aug. 10; > > Leo, Aug. 10-Sept. 16; > > Virgo, Sept. 16-Oct. 30; > > Libra, Oct. 30-Nov. 23; > > Scorpio, Nov. 23-29; > > Ophiuchus, Nov. 29-Dec. 17; > > Sagittarius, Dec. 17-Jan. 20." > > The full article is at: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11014/1117842-153.stm > > This is really big news if it is real. Wow. > > Love, > Laura > > > > From: "FMYFL@aol.com" > To: sillyseabird7@yahoo.com; margaret_elmtree@yahoo.ca; joni@smoe.org > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 5:39:01 AM > Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing > > Laura, you might be a Gemini now that Ophuchicus has been added to the > zodiac signs :-) > > Happy Friday > Jimmy > > In a message dated 1/13/2011 10:08:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, > sillyseabird7@yahoo.com writes: > > > I haven't mellowed enough to like being > > thought of as a "cancer" though. If I had any other zodiac sign, I would > > be > > more apt to like it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:38:34 -0500 From: "Robert Sartorius" Subject: RE: Reno Sweeney's Jerry wrote of Reno Sweeney's: "Those were the days, my friend. How I loved Reno Sweeney's. It was THE place to see anyone: Barbara Cook, Jane Olivor, Rosemary Clooney, Blossom Dearie. I'm sure list member David Lahm played there many times. Glad Cherry is alive and kicking." I only saw one show at Reno Sweeney's, but is was really good one - Peter Allen. Thought I'd add his name to Jerry's list. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:46:37 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Buckingham Nicks NJC Thanks Rob and yeah, I remember that - it was fun to do especially since I knew you liked that record as much (more probably) as I did. I like Frozen Love the best but there's not a bad moment on it. Just thinking about your Stevie Nicks 12-step program - "how long has it been since you last twirled"...one of the funniest things I ever read here. So yep, it's a special place to be sure. Bob NP: Captain Beefheart, "I'm Glad" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:51:08 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Reno Sweeney's - njc I saw him once in concert with Bernadette Peters. Not much of a voice, but he sure put on one helluva show! Also saw Alberta Hunter there after Dick Cavett had rediscovered her. She was in her 80's then, but still had a great voice. It was like watching history unfold. Jerry On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Robert Sartorius wrote: > Jerry wrote of Reno Sweeney's: > > "Those were the days, my friend. How I loved Reno Sweeney's. It was THE > place > to see anyone: Barbara Cook, Jane Olivor, Rosemary Clooney, Blossom Dearie. > I'm sure list member David Lahm played there many times. Glad Cherry is > alive and kicking." > > > I only saw one show at Reno Sweeney's, but is was really good one - Peter > Allen. Thought I'd add his name to Jerry's list. > > Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:00:54 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: LEGENDS OF THE CANYON I finally got a chance to get Legends of the Canyon from Netflix and watched it last night. What a blast! I enjoyed listening to Henry and all the interviews were really fun. I love the sement on Joni but think they could have made that part alot longer. But it was fun hearing so many people gush about Joni. All the CSNY stuff was so much fun. Such egos! Such talent! Hope you all get a chance to see it. In a related story of Canadian musicians. I also got see Rush (The Lighted Stage Doc Special) on VH1 Classic and really enjoyed that as well as I have been a Rush geek for quite some time even tho I hated them at first. Couldn't get past Geddy's voice but then I did. Highly reccommended to all Rush fans Best Paz NP-Stolen Car-Patty Griffin Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:23:16 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni I think Jack Nicholson is pretty "Ugh" too but I guess he was better-looking when he was young (weren't we all!) I guess Joni was caught up in the culture of the times but also in the incestuous world of the music biz in California in the 70s, where people seemed to be constantly changing partners, but the partners were limited to that relatively small group of other California-in-the-70s musicians (with a few related artistic types thrown in for good measure.) In such a case, it's easy to understand how a person could become cynical. It must have been kid-in-a-sexual-candy-shop time, with a lot of heartbreak to follow. As for as astrology is concerned, I'm not sure how Joni would care for being a Libra. Where would DJRD be with the Scorpio connection? As for "O-fee-uck-us," I'm kinda leaning towards, "Oh, fuck us!" - ----- Original Message ---- > From: "kbhla@fastmail.fm" > To: joni@smoe.org > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 2:21:37 PM > Subject: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni > > I'm not sure that Joni was luckier than the rest of us because she had more > opportunity to bouce back and easily "find another lover." Sure, she probably > had her pick of every guy around wanting to be with her. However, I look at > it more that she had earlier experienced a lot of heartbreak, especially with > James Taylor, and I think at some point she just sort of became a little > hardened and cynical about it all and thought she'd roam around like so many > others did back in the 70s. Interestingly, according to Joni, she also did > not partake in recreational drugs back in the 60s but later joined the crowd > in 70s. I think she became existentialistic with her heart for awhile then. > Dating Jack Nicholson I can kind of see because he is original and interesting > but Warren Beatty? Ugh. I still shudder. > > By the start of the 80s, she was seeking real love again as evidenced by her > songs in WTRF. She found her friend and was renewed again, until he tore out > her heart. Then she found Donald. But he left her, too, and she was very > hurt again. On one of my encounters with her she talked a lot about him > breaking up with her. I was very surprised she would pour out her feelings to > me, who is pretty much a stranger. She was so vulnerable and the gist of what > she bascially said was how love is supposed to be "kind, patient and suffereth > long" but it did not work that way for her in the end. > > I think Joni has been through the whole spectrum just like the rest of us. > > By the way, I just heard someone pronounce that new Zodiac sign. It sounds > like O Fee U Cuss. I never would have known! It now makes Joni a Libra! > > Kakki, still a Leo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:31:19 -0800 (PST) From: MattJones Subject: The Beat of Black Wings Does anyone actually have the mp3 of Janet Jackson's cover of this? If it came out in one of the compilations, I apologize for missing it. Or was it never actually recorded? I've been listening to this song on repeat a lot lately and just realized that it was supposedly part of the shelved A Case of Joni from 2000.... - --- On Wed, 1/12/11, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Night Ride Home (Passion Play) Music To: "Lc Stanley" , "MattJones" Cc: "Joni List" Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 9:59 AM I agree with Laura. I just downloaded The Music of Joni Mitchell by Lloyd Whitesell to my Kindle. I haven't started it yet, but when talking about harmonies, I think a whole dissertation could be written on the harmonic choruses of Car On A Hill. Take care, Sue ___________________ /___________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue Tierney || || McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Lc Stanley Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:17 AM To: MattJones Cc: Joni List Subject: Re: Night Ride Home (Passion Play) Music Hi Matt, Joni is a perfect example of how a singing voice and composing voice can evolve over decades. She's gone through so many sounds and styles to become the singing voice we hear today. I don't know of any other singer/song writer who has gone through so many changes in voice, both in sound and style, as Joni has. If you choose her, you will have a very thick dissertation, and I will want to read it. Love, Laura ________________________________ From: MattJones To: joni@smoe.org; Mags Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 11:38:29 PM Subject: Re: Night Ride Home (Passion Play) Music Hi Mags (and everyone else), I'm not new to the list, but it's been quite a while since I posted anything. I'm a PhD student at The University of Virginia (you can look me up on the UVA music dept page, under grad students if you're so inclined: www.virginia.edu/music i think). I did a Masters at The University of Georgia prior to coming here, where I did some work on ecological/feminist themes in Joni's 80s and 90s work. I have presented that paper at a couple of nerdy academic conferences, and I'm in the planning stages of a dissertation on issues of voice (the singing voice, the "voice" of the composer, etc), and I'm trying to figure out how to make Joni a major part of that. At the moment, I'm working on a side project that involves the song Passion Play and just want to compare some things on the recording, the tabs available on the homepage, and the published sheet music. I'll gladly yack about my joni-related research if anyone has further questions. Don't hesitate to ask. Also, I know a long time ago there was an annual or maybe bi-annual JoniFest. Is some manifestation of that event still happening? At some point, I would love to attend and/or talk to people who attended past events. I'll send out a more formal request for that later one. Hope everyone is having a safe & happy 2011, mj - --- On Tue, 1/11/11, Mags wrote: From: Mags Subject: Re: Night Ride Home (Passion Play) Music To: joni@smoe.org, "MattJones" Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 3:54 PM dissertation on Joni? Tell us more please! Matt are you new to the list? Sorry if I don't recognize your name. Mags~ > > Matt "Trying to Figure Out How To Write My Dissertation On > Joni" Jones ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:04:46 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Buckingham Nicks NJC Ooh, I just have to chime in! I LOVE that album, and "Races Are Run" is my favorite track, too. I haven't heard it in ages--I used to have a tape I made off the album--which I picked up in the eighties, literally off the street, from a guy selling stuff around Cooper Union/Astor Place in NYC. So crazy that it's never been released on CD. "Just thinking about your Stevie Nicks 12-step program - "how long has it been since you last twirled"...one of the funniest things I ever read here. So yep, it's a special place to be sure." Bob Can you repost this? Thanks! Terra On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Robert Procyk wrote: > Since I'm the lovechild of Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks with a > raging Oedipal Complex, you couldn't expect me NOT to chime in. I just > have to say, Bob, that way back when, like 10 years or so ago, when I was > lamenting BN not being released on CD, I was soon pleasantly surprised to > find in my mailbox a burned copy of the album onto cd, complete with > reproduced artwork. I have to tell you, I still think that's one of the > nicest things someone has ever done for me (my Nicks addiction is > fierce). > > And while all the Linsdsey-philes seem to pick "Frozen Love" as their > fave track, and the Stevie-ites seem to choose "Long Distance Winner" as > their favorite, I have to say my favorite track has always been "Races > are Run." Why, I don't know, but it just is. I would have said > "Crystal" is the masterpiece, but I have to say that the version on that > song on the Fleetwood Mac White album is the better version. > > Anyway, another belated thank you, Bob - it's things like that that make > this place so special. > > Rob > > > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:35:49 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing The "one person in Newfoundland" must have been a Motley Crue fan - lol. What I find funny is that the "little faggot" "gets his chicks for free" insinuating the girls like his ear ring and makeup. And the complainer didn't seem to have a problem with "banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee" which seems to be even more politically incorrect. I don't think there are too many gays out there who took offense to the lyrics. There's probably a lot more homophobes and heteros who don't like it. I say ban people in Newfoundland from complaining about music. I see Sting is credited with cowriting the song even though he claims he only added the "I want my MTV" line. Jim - --- On Fri, 1/14/11, Mags wrote: > From: Mags > Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing > To: joni@smoe.org, "John van Tiel" > Date: Friday, January 14, 2011, 6:41 AM > even though I didn't articulate as > such, this is exactly what I meant. Our Canadian television > and radio stations have all sorts of words that well... > never mind. Hopefully, the uproar over this will effect > change on that score. > > Mags > > > > What's next? > > Ban all Oxford and Webster's English Language > dictionaries > > from public > > libraries in Canada because they are filled with words > that > > may be abusive to > > the good people of the land? > > > > Am I living in the wrong country? We even get them on > prime > > time tv here in > > the Netherlands. The shame! > > > > John from the Netherlands > > > > NP: Kraftwerk - Autobahn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:23:41 -0500 From: Jim Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC "Money For Nothing" I guess Sting wasn't too offended because he was on the track too. If I recall,*Mark Knopfler*used the word 2 times, not once. http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/2011/01/money-for-nothing-should-the-song- be-banned-on-canadian-radio.html I like the song. I own it on LP, but then sometimes I'm a bigot, so there you go. On this live take on You Tube, he changed "faggot" to "mother"... *http://tinyurl.com/4gdterp* Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:27:55 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing This makes me wonder whether the whole thing is some kind of hoax. I can't see how ONE person complaining about something would make it banned from all the airwaves. Still, the story is on credible news sites. Does anyone remember the hoo-haw over Randy Newman's "Short People?" Does anyone care to weigh in on the Huckleberry Finn thing? - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jim > To: joni@smoe.org > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 6:35:49 PM > Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing > > The "one person in Newfoundland" must have been a Motley Crue fan - lol. What >I find funny is that the "little faggot" "gets his chicks for free" insinuating >the girls like his ear ring and makeup. And the complainer didn't seem to have >a problem with "banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee" which seems to be even >more politically incorrect. > > I don't think there are too many gays out there who took offense to the >lyrics. There's probably a lot more homophobes and heteros who don't like it. >I say ban people in Newfoundland from complaining about music. > > I see Sting is credited with cowriting the song even though he claims he only >added the "I want my MTV" line. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:36:41 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The Beat of Black Wings This album was never released. You can get the song here. I'm not a Janet Jackson fan, but I do like her version of this song: https://www.yousendit.com/download/bFlIV28zQzM5RmF4dnc9PQ - ----- Original Message ---- > From: MattJones > To: Joni List > Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 4:31:19 PM > Subject: The Beat of Black Wings > > Does anyone actually have the mp3 of Janet Jackson's cover of this? If it came > out in one of the compilations, I apologize for missing it. Or was it never > actually recorded? I've been listening to this song on repeat a lot lately and > just realized that it was supposedly part of the shelved A Case of Joni from > 2000.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:37:33 -0800 From: Subject: Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni Yeah, Catherine, Jack is in my marginal category, too, but he has made many admiring and respectful remarks over the years regarding Joni, so I hope he treated her right. He was also in the front row at the Joni-Bob-Van concert at UCLA. Yes, from my experience Southern California was pretty out there, not only in the celebrity realm, for part of the 70s. I almost moved to the east coast back then because it was tilting more than a little off-kilter here for awhile. One tipping point for me was seeing a large duffel bag of cocaine being delivered to an otherwise nondescript neighborhood beach party. I always thought Hissing captured the disconnect perfectly. Despite all that was going on the 60s it seemed a somehow more sweeter and innocent time in comparison. Maybe now that Joni is a Libra, she can be always balancing the scales instead of fighting between the serpent and the eagle ;-) You also wrote: "As for "O-fee-uck-us," I'm kinda leaning towards, "Oh, fuck us!" LOL! How did they ever come up with THAT one?! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 18:51:01 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC "Money For Nothing" Is Sting a faggot?? Or is queer the PC term. Just kidding. Why would Sting be offended? Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Jan 14, 2011, at 6:23 PM, Jim wrote: I guess Sting wasn't too offended because he was on the track too. If I recall,*Mark Knopfler*used the word 2 times, not once. http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/2011/01/money-for-nothing-should-the-song- be-banned-on-canadian-radio.html I like the song. I own it on LP, but then sometimes I'm a bigot, so there you go. On this live take on You Tube, he changed "faggot" to "mother"... *http://tinyurl.com/4gdterp* Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:18:47 -0800 From: Subject: Re: Cherry Vanilla, Miss O'Dell and Joni Hi Sue, I never before made the connection between Jericho and Guerin but can absolutely see it now. Needing (his) confidence and the gift of (his) extra time, a rich exchange and warm arrangement all fit right in. He claimed to have a lot of input in her move to get a band and also claimed some co-authorship and collaboration on some of her songs of the time. Yes, another heartbreaker. Joni sure has a lot of stories to write. I wonder when we will ever see her long awaited autobiography and finally hear it all from the source. Kakki Thanks for the personal insights of your conversation with Joni, Kakki! I still think her ideal of love was described so beautifully in Jericho. Was she writing that about John Guerin? (another heartbreaker!) Take care, Sue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:25:34 -0500 (EST) From: dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Reno Sweeney's Fact is, I never did play at Reno Sweeney's although I did see a show or two there. One was by Ronee Blakeley; she sang onscreen in the film NASHVILLE. DAVID LAHM - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Sartorius To: joni Cc: 'Gerald Notaro' Sent: Fri, Jan 14, 2011 3:43 pm Subject: RE: Reno Sweeney's Jerry wrote of Reno Sweeney's: "Those were the days, my friend. How I loved Reno Sweeney's. It was THE place to see anyone: Barbara Cook, Jane Olivor, Rosemary Clooney, Blossom Dearie. I'm sure list member David Lahm played there many times. Glad Cherry is alive and kicking." I only saw one show at Reno Sweeney's, but is was really good one - Peter Allen. Thought I'd add his name to Jerry's list. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 18:26:37 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: up for discussion NJC money for nothing Pretty stupid...I liked The Daily Show's take on it "is N_gger to Slave supposed to be a promotion"? Bob NP: Richard X Heyman, "World Of Indifference" (the best unknown songwriter out there) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2011 #14 **************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------