From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2010 #374 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 17 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 374 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? [Mark Domyan] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? [Lieve Recke] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? [Laura Stanl] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC [Bob.Mul] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC [Gerald ] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC [Laura S] RE: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC [Susan ] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC [Laura ] Paprika Plains on CD [Russell Bowden ] Re: Joni Screen Saver [Mark-Leon Thorne ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 03:23:14 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? Responding to a few different replies as I'm on digest: Jerry wrote: > One of Joni's most brilliant compositions, and may well be remembered long > after Big Yellow Taxi. > In my opinion, doubtful. As Bob mentioned (and I agree with) the thing that maintains BYT's prominence today is that it is oft quoted. Plus, it's poppy, it's upbeat. Paprika Plains as was mentioned, is a religious experience. It's not a trip to get ice cream, it's a song that you have to be baptized in. I will admit though the first time I heard it I couldn't really wrap my head around it and just thought of it as a boundless piano composition that should have had lost 11 or 12 minutes. Now I feel much differently. While I don't consider it to be the pinnacle of Joni's songwriting (I think it would be cruel to label anything as such) I think it's definitely noteworthy for the level of improvisation that it includes; that Joni had been writing and performing for 12 or 13 years at this point and her talent had enabled her to just go into a studio with just a strong mental picture of a song she wanted to write and just started playing. I think that shows great talent, and it's not something that comes quickly to any musician. It takes years and years of said performing and songwriting to achieve a point where you can just roll with something and pull off a piece like this. I think that's what's got me so much about this song: that it shows Joni at an age and a level of musicianship that proves she can meander about the piano and still write a cohesive song. Bob wrote: > Covers: Big Yellow Taxi 291, Paprika Plains 0. > I'm going to change that! Right after my piano version of "The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey." Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 09:59:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? I'm not sure my reply is even worth being added to this debate, but I just want to say "thank you" to everybody who has written so knowledgeably, with so much love for and knowledge of music. I am so grateful to be part of this group, of a discussion list of this calibre. I would like to make an effort, one day, to compare both recordings and see how much if it I can recognise myself, with the aid of all these write-ups. But for lack of time and with other preoccupations, it will probably never happen. So I just sit in awe of what I read here. And I have to smile with recognition when I read Catherine's description of the "melting clocks"! Lieve - ----- Original Message ---- From: Randy Remote To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Thu, 16 December, 2010 1:44:37 Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? From: > RR wrote an essay, comparing the 2 versions. It's worth looking up. Which I rewrote a bit, and posted on Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/39tu6ht I've forgotten more than I'll ever know about PP, (not you, Pattie!) but amongst other info about the song and the recording, I give the exact times the different pianos come in, ad nauseum, etc, etc RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 05:03:58 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? Bob wrote: "it's the hits that artists stay known for, not the misses." Hi Bob, Hits? What about Van Gogh? This is a wonderful short synopsis about him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_van_Gogh I particularly liked this closing paragraph: In 1957, Francis Bacon (1909b1992) based a series of paintings on reproductions of Van Gogh's The Painter on the Road to Tarascon, the original of which was destroyed during World War II. Bacon was inspired by not only an image he described as "haunting", but also Van Gogh himself, whom Bacon regarded as an alienated outsider, a position which resonated with Bacon. The Irish artist further identified with Van Gogh's theories of art and quoted lines written in a letter to Theo, "[R]eal painters do not paint things as they are...They paint them as they themselves feel them to be".[179] An exhibition devoted to Vincent van Gogh's letters took place in theVan Gogh Museum in Amsterdam from October 2009 to January 2010[180] and then moved to the Royal Academy in London from late January to April.[181] Hi to all of you alienated outsiders lurking out there. Love, Laura Movie NPIMH: The Dark Knight ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:27:06 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC A perfect example. If you were to stop 100 people on the street and tell them to name a van Goh painting, how many would say "Starry Night"? 95%. (At least 95% of those who could name at least one.) Bob NP: Third Eye Blind, "Deep Inside Of You" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:52:08 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC And during his lifetime, no one could name even one. Jerry On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 8:27 AM, wrote: > > > > A perfect example. If you were to stop 100 people on the street and tell > them to name a van Goh painting, how many would say "Starry Night"? 95%. (At > least 95% of those who could name at least one.) > > Bob > > NP: Third Eye Blind, "Deep Inside Of You" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:05:26 -0600 From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC The Starry Night was a miss but today as you point out is a hit. So maybe the same could happen with Paprika Plains. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > > > A perfect example. If you were to stop 100 people on the street and tell them to name a van Goh painting, how many would say "Starry Night"? 95%. (At least 95% of those who could name at least one.) > > Bob > > NP: Third Eye Blind, "Deep Inside Of You"------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:00:16 -0500 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC Here is my gut reaction to this discussion ... Paprika Plains is an amazing piece of beautiful music ... but longevity comes from deep levels of simplicity and timelessness, and as Bobs covers reveal, Both Sides Now will be Joni's boat to immortality ... now if all her other children can fit in that boat, maybe Paprika Plains will be performed in the future ... I just think BSN has more of a chance. Just my two cents. Take care, Sue ___________________ /___________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue Tierney || || McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Laura Stanley Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:05 AM To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Cc: joni@smoe.org; notaro@mail.usf.edu Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC The Starry Night was a miss but today as you point out is a hit. So maybe the same could happen with Paprika Plains. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > > > A perfect example. If you were to stop 100 people on the street and tell them to name a van Goh painting, how many would say "Starry Night"? 95%. (At least 95% of those who could name at least one.) > > Bob > > NP: Third Eye Blind, "Deep Inside Of You"------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:28:38 -0600 From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC "No one knows. They can never get that close. Guesses at most. Guesses based on what each set of time and change are touching." Both Bob and Jerry are experts at what they do, and I respect and enjoy reading the opinions of both. Your's too Sue. I am of the opinion that artistic immortality involves more in the evolution of culture than just popularity as measured by performance. Love, Laura Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2010, at 9:00 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: > Here is my gut reaction to this discussion ... Paprika Plains is an amazing piece of beautiful music ... but longevity comes from deep levels of simplicity and timelessness, and as Bobs covers reveal, Both Sides Now will be Joni's boat to immortality ... now if all her other children can fit in that boat, maybe Paprika Plains will be performed in the future ... I just think BSN has more of a chance. Just my two cents. > > Take care, Sue > > > ___________________ > /___________________\ > ||-------------------|| > || Sue Tierney || > || McNamara || > || sem8@cornell.edu || > ||___________________|| > || O etch-a-sketch O || > \___________________/ > > "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Laura Stanley > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:05 AM > To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Cc: joni@smoe.org; notaro@mail.usf.edu > Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? NJC > > The Starry Night was a miss but today as you point out is a hit. So maybe the > same could happen with Paprika Plains. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > >> >> >> >> A perfect example. If you were to stop 100 people on the street and tell > them to name a van Goh painting, how many would say "Starry Night"? 95%. (At > least 95% of those who could name at least one.) >> >> Bob >> >> NP: Third Eye Blind, "Deep Inside Of > You"------------------------------------------------------------ >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person >> or entity to which it is addressed and may contain >> proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. >> If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are >> hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, >> distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon >> this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please >> contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. >> >> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual >> sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. >> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:52:03 -0800 From: Russell Bowden Subject: Paprika Plains on CD Gang, I've always loved this song...as I've loved every square inch of DJRD since my first hearing (so far, the only Joni release of which I can make that statement..NRH is the close 2nd.) Anywho....My complaint re: PP on cd is that I can't read all of those wonderful unsung lyrics in the liner notes booklet. One needs the Keck Observatory Telescope to see them! Love and Happy Horrordaze (for all of my depessed friends) Russ in Alameda, CA Sotto voce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:10:21 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Joni Screen Saver Hi Marje. Are you talking about the Joni wallpapers that were up on the JMDL website? Ironically, my computer crashed right after the demise of the website and I lost all of my original designs and the submissions from others. Luckily, Les was able to send me the jpegs of my designs so, that's something. I have posted them all on my FaceBook page. Anyone who is friends with me can easily access them and take what they like. If you're not on FB, write to me off list and I can send which ever one(s) you want. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2010 #374 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------