From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2010 #373 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jmdl.com JMDL Digest Thursday, December 16 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 373 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Rolling Stone - The Playlist Issue [Gerald Notaro ] Tiny Joni mention in LA Times [Steve Dulson ] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? [c Karma ] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? [Catherine M] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? [Gerald Nota] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? [Bob.Muller@] Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? [Gmail Subject: Rolling Stone - The Playlist Issue Joni gets a couple of mentions. Roots drummer ?uestlove says of The Ballad of Dorothy Park: If Graham Central Station's Release Yourself and Joni MItchell's Hissing of Summer Lawns fell in love, got married and had a baby. Sheryl Crow's picks: #2 A Case of You, Joni Mitchell. P.S. Annie Lennox: Women with Soul, #7: Farewell to Tarwathie, Judy Collins. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:18:31 +0000 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Tiny Joni mention in LA Times Tuesday's Times has a front page story about a new hotel in Las Vegas whose rooms come equipped with books - the only one they specified was "..a tome covering Joni Mitchell's blue period..." *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA President, FAR-West (Folk Alliance Region - West) tinkersown@ca.rr.com www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:46:33 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? I always have to respond to a PP thread. I have a love/hate relationship with the remix. Pros: warmer and more present piano, warmer vocals, rounder bottom endCons: strange vocal edits, less air on strings, Jaco's bass muddy thuddy lost all crispness, more compressed/less dynamic overall especially at Guerin's explosion to open the end improv section. While I often find my CD of DJRD a llittle brittle and admit it is not an HDCD version...I think I called the Prairie Girl version the "Pimp My Ride" mix. My opinion has not changed. I don't think that Henry Lewy would have been happy. He considered this her most highly evolved piece - (not sure of that source but I think I read it somewhere in the archives). I've wanted to put them on simultaneously and toggle between them to see if Joni fixed the "problem" she had (which I think was one of the happiest studio accidents ever): that the strings were out of tune. Actually, depending on which account you read it may be the piano is out of tune, or the orchestra. I think it's more likely that the piano had drifted between sessions. The dream sequence is enhanced by something being just slightly off, in my mind. If you are reviewing once again, listen for the clock tolling midnight, the thunderstorm and its passing, the railroad crossing bells interrupted by cross winds, the shop door bells, the beach ball bouncing, the light sparkling off the disco ball, child's drum, high tension wires, the quiet solitude of a nursing mother, the atom bomb. They are not in the order you expect from the accompanying poem. The onomatopoeia dances freely with score for the poem and that is exactly the impressionistic joy that lives within this masterpiece. CC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:25:34 -0500 From: Subject: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? Mark said in part, >Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this?> >The first thing that I notice is the mix. It sounds... new? Modern?... Anyone else notice this? Or has this been discussed in the past?> Yes, the remix on Prairie Girl is significantly different. If I recall correctly, Joni hired someone to go back to the raw tapes and adjust the pitch of the different pianos so they blend better. I think of the remix as Mingus-inspired. It sounds like he didn't eq them all to sound the same so some portions sound like the piano lid was down but in other sections it sounds like the lid was up. Even the running times are different. The biggest difference (to me) is the loudness at the end when "the band plugs in again". On the originial LP, the overall level was reduced so it gets very loud at that part. In the new mix, the overall level is uniform; when the last part kicks in, it's not very much louder. RR wrote an essay, comparing the 2 versions. It's worth looking up. Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:41:35 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Joni mention on television Stupid little show called Girls Who Like Boys Who Like Boys. It is about gay men and their female BFF's. One guy said he heard Joni Mitchell playing down the hall in his college dorm. He went in to meet the girl. They have been best friends for years now. Sort of a cute story. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:47:44 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? Wow! This is awesome. Now I'm going to have to listen to PP again to hear these sounds. I do not recall hearing any of that ever. And this sentence is brilliant: "The dream sequence is enhanced by something being just slightly off, in my mind." Makes me think of something surrealstic, like one of those paintings of melting clocks. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: c Karma > To: joni@smoe.org > Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 11:46:33 AM > Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? > > I always have to respond to a PP thread. I have a love/hate relationship with > the remix. Pros: warmer and more present piano, warmer vocals, rounder > bottom endCons: strange vocal edits, less air on strings, Jaco's bass muddy > thuddy lost all crispness, more compressed/less dynamic overall especially at > Guerin's explosion to open the end improv section. > While I often find my CD of DJRD a llittle brittle and admit it is not an HDCD > version...I think I called the Prairie Girl version the "Pimp My Ride" mix. > My opinion has not changed. I don't think that Henry Lewy would have been > happy. He considered this her most highly evolved piece - (not sure of that > source but I think I read it somewhere in the archives). I've wanted to put > them on simultaneously and toggle between them to see if Joni fixed the > "problem" she had (which I think was one of the happiest studio accidents > ever): that the strings were out of tune. Actually, depending on which > account you read it may be the piano is out of tune, or the orchestra. I > think it's more likely that the piano had drifted between sessions. The dream > sequence is enhanced by something being just slightly off, in my mind. > If you are reviewing once again, listen for the clock tolling midnight, the > thunderstorm and its passing, the railroad crossing bells interrupted by cross > winds, the shop door bells, the beach ball bouncing, the light sparkling off > the disco ball, child's drum, high tension wires, the quiet solitude of a > nursing mother, the atom bomb. They are not in the order you expect from the > accompanying poem. The onomatopoeia dances freely with score for the poem and > that is exactly the impressionistic joy that lives within this masterpiece. > CC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:54:56 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? One of Joni's most brilliant compositions, and may well be remembered long after Big Yellow Taxi. Jerry On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > Wow! This is awesome. Now I'm going to have to listen to PP again to hear > these > sounds. I do not recall hearing any of that ever. > > And this sentence is brilliant: "The dream sequence is enhanced by > something > being just slightly off, in my mind." Makes me think of something > surrealstic, > like one of those paintings of melting clocks. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: c Karma > > To: joni@smoe.org > > Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 11:46:33 AM > > Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? > > > > I always have to respond to a PP thread. I have a love/hate relationship > with > > the remix. Pros: warmer and more present piano, warmer vocals, rounder > > bottom endCons: strange vocal edits, less air on strings, Jaco's bass > muddy > > thuddy lost all crispness, more compressed/less dynamic overall > especially at > > Guerin's explosion to open the end improv section. > > While I often find my CD of DJRD a llittle brittle and admit it is not an > HDCD > > version...I think I called the Prairie Girl version the "Pimp My Ride" > mix. > > My opinion has not changed. I don't think that Henry Lewy would have > been > > happy. He considered this her most highly evolved piece - (not sure of > that > > source but I think I read it somewhere in the archives). I've wanted to > put > > them on simultaneously and toggle between them to see if Joni fixed the > > "problem" she had (which I think was one of the happiest studio accidents > > ever): that the strings were out of tune. Actually, depending on which > > account you read it may be the piano is out of tune, or the orchestra. I > > think it's more likely that the piano had drifted between sessions. The > dream > > sequence is enhanced by something being just slightly off, in my mind. > > If you are reviewing once again, listen for the clock tolling midnight, > the > > thunderstorm and its passing, the railroad crossing bells interrupted by > cross > > winds, the shop door bells, the beach ball bouncing, the light sparkling > off > > the disco ball, child's drum, high tension wires, the quiet solitude of a > > nursing mother, the atom bomb. They are not in the order you expect from > the > > accompanying poem. The onomatopoeia dances freely with score for the > poem and > > that is exactly the impressionistic joy that lives within this > masterpiece. > > CC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:12:18 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? Well, I think that's pushing it. It's not like 35 years has done anything to increase its visibility. Not saying that it's not brilliant (it is) but as we see Joni's history being written, it's not really doing her post Court & Spark career much service. Half of the news stories about Joni are because someone has used the phrases: 1. You don't know what you got 'til it's gone; 2. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot Both of which of course come from BYT. While I think it's artistically somewhat unfortunate, especially in her eyes, BYT is her legacy to a much greater degree than PP. Covers: Big Yellow Taxi 291, Paprika Plains 0. Google: 405,000 hits on BYT, 25,400 on Paprika Plains Bob NP: Prince, "When Doves Cry" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:22:38 +0000 From: Gmail Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? This comment made me laugh. It made me think how the girl who wrote Bi Yellow Taxi became the woman who wrote Paprika Plains. The breadth of ocean between the two songs is astounding. It's the juxtaposition of the two songs that make me think of her talent. Amazing. Sent from my iPhone On 15 Dec 2010, at 20:54, Gerald Notaro wrote: > One of Joni's most brilliant compositions, and may well be remembered long > after Big Yellow Taxi. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:25:20 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? But I am talking years from now, not taking into count anything current. Of course I know BYT is what she is known for now. But it is still within her, yours, and my lifetime. BYT is certainly popular and well known. But time is a funny thing. How many people know Marilyn Miller? One of the biggest stars of the 20's. Everyone knew her. But not now. Shakespeare's most popular play and most performed when he was alive? Titus Andronicus. Not Hamlet. Not King Lear. Not Richard lll. Not Macbeth. Tastes change radically after generations pass. I think Paprika Plains has the musical elements to survive the years. Jerry On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:12 PM, wrote: > > after Big Yellow Taxi.> > > Well, I think that's pushing it. It's not like 35 years has done anything > to increase its visibility. Not saying that it's not brilliant (it is) but > as we see Joni's history being written, it's not really doing her post Court > & Spark career much service. > > Half of the news stories about Joni are because someone has used the > phrases: > > 1. You don't know what you got 'til it's gone; > 2. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot > > Both of which of course come from BYT. While I think it's artistically > somewhat unfortunate, especially in her eyes, BYT is her legacy to a much > greater degree than PP. > > Covers: Big Yellow Taxi 291, Paprika Plains 0. > Google: 405,000 hits on BYT, 25,400 on Paprika Plains > > Bob > > NP: Prince, "When Doves Cry" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:32:45 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? Don't get me wrong - I agree with you about the work. I just think you are over-estimating the culture. And for every example you give, there are just as many in the other direction. Jim Varney, who was a Shakesperean actor but will always be known as Ernest, and so on. Especially in the world of pop culture, it's the hits that artists stay known for, not the misses. Bob NP: Mitch Easter, "The Phantoms Of Ephemera" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:08:47 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? And no one will know who Ernest was 50 years from now. That really is my point. Jerry On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, wrote: > > the years.> > > Don't get me wrong - I agree with you about the work. I just think you are > over-estimating the culture. And for every example you give, there are just > as many in the other direction. Jim Varney, who was a Shakesperean actor but > will always be known as Ernest, and so on. Especially in the world of pop > culture, it's the hits that artists stay known for, not the misses. > > Bob > > NP: Mitch Easter, "The Phantoms Of Ephemera" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:17:29 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? Well, we'll just see about that...I'll save this post and 50 years from now I'll....ummm, never mind. Bob Gerald Notaro Sent by: owner-joni@smoe.org 12/15/2010 05:08 PM Please respond to Gerald Notaro To Bob.Muller@fluor.com cc Catherine McKay , c Karma , joni@smoe.org Subject Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? And no one will know who Ernest was 50 years from now. That really is my point. Jerry On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, wrote: > > the years.> > > Don't get me wrong - I agree with you about the work. I just think you are > over-estimating the culture. And for every example you give, there are just > as many in the other direction. Jim Varney, who was a Shakesperean actor but > will always be known as Ernest, and so on. Especially in the world of pop > culture, it's the hits that artists stay known for, not the misses. > > Bob > > NP: Mitch Easter, "The Phantoms Of Ephemera" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:29:51 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? We hope! > >From: Gerald Notaro >To: Bob.Muller@fluor.com >Cc: Catherine McKay ; c Karma ; >joni@smoe.org >Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 5:08:47 PM >Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? > >And no one will know who Ernest was 50 years from now. That really is my point. > >Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:44:37 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? From: > RR wrote an essay, comparing the 2 versions. It's worth looking up. Which I rewrote a bit, and posted on Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/39tu6ht I've forgotten more than I'll ever know about PP, (not you, Pattie!) but amongst other info about the song and the recording, I give the exact times the different pianos come in, ad nauseum, etc, etc RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:33:17 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Paprika Plains (Remix) - why am I just now hearing this? That's a great writeup, Randy. Lots of good insight and info I wasn't aware of before. Mark On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:47 PM, Randy Remote wrote: > From: > > RR wrote an essay, comparing the 2 versions. It's worth looking up. >> > > Which I rewrote a bit, and posted on Amazon: > http://tinyurl.com/39tu6ht > I've forgotten more than I'll ever know about PP, (not you, Pattie!) but > amongst other info about the song and the recording, I give the exact times > the different pianos come in, ad nauseum, etc, etc > RR ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2010 #373 ***************************** ------- To post messages to the list, send to joni@smoe.org. Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------