From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2010 #312 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 19 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 312 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Laura Nyro (NJC) ["Gary Z." ] BSN in another language [Bob Muller ] Re: Laura Nyro (NJC) [Lieve Reckers ] Re: BSN in another language [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: BSN in another language [Mags ] one more time about the BBC 4 singer-songwriters series [Lieve Reckers ] RE: A Case of You ["Robert Sartorius" ] Joni_Wembley Arena_April 24, 1983 [simon@icu.com] Re: BSN in another language [Lieve Reckers ] Joni connections at The London Jazz Festival [Paul Castle ] Re: BSN in another language [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: BSN in another language - probably NJC now [Lieve Reckers ] Re: DJRD Astrology and Scorpio Totems ["Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Laura Nyro (NJC) Happy Birthday, Laura. I love you so, I always will........ Gary Z. Video: Musical Architecture - available today only: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&playlist=43215370&pt=1&i=1&videoid=104072183#playlist-watched ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 03:23:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: BSN in another language OK, so I've heard this one in a zillion languages, but here's a new one on me - SIGN language. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruLwUanEJd0 Oh, and Clay Aiken is singing it. I found the signing very moving. Bob NP: Clay Aiken, BSN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 11:59:03 +0100 (BST) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Laura Nyro (NJC) Gary, this is so moving. Thank you so much! Lieve in London To: joni Sent: Mon, 18 October, 2010 10:25:04 Subject: Laura Nyro (NJC) Happy Birthday, Laura. I love you so, I always will........ Gary Z. Video: Musical Architecture - available today only: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&playlist=4321537 0&pt=1&i=1&videoid=104072183#playlist-watched ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 07:49:47 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN in another language Thanks for sharing that Bob. I'm not a big Clay Aiken fan, but I took 3 yrs of sign languague in school. It's such a beautiful language, and so pretty when it's sung. I wish I had kept up with it. I could have signed to "Dancing Clown" at Jonifest with ya LOL Jimmy In a message dated 10/18/2010 6:29:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, scjoniguy@yahoo.com writes: > OK, so I've heard this one in a zillion languages, but here's a new one > on me - > SIGN language. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruLwUanEJd0 > > Oh, and Clay Aiken is singing it. I found the signing very moving. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 05:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: BSN in another language nicely done, very moving indeed. beautiful tender version. love the signing. Mags - --- On Mon, 10/18/10, Bob Muller wrote: OK, so I've heard this one in a zillion languages, but here's a new one on me - SIGN language. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruLwUanEJd0 Oh, and Clay Aiken is singing it. I found the signing very moving. Bob NP: Clay Aiken, BSN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 13:24:49 +0100 (BST) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: one more time about the BBC 4 singer-songwriters series For those who have bothered to follow my postings on the subject, last Friday was part 3 of the supposedly 3-part programme. It included Joni doing (to my ears a rather nervous Both Sides Now), and it did show the acts that were first wrongly advertised for part 2: Bobbie Gentry (with Ode to Billy Joe - oh how it made me think of our Smurph!), Kris Kristofferson, Buffy Saint-Marie (with a strangely moving Until It's Time for You to Go), Janis Ian (well so the list says, but I didn't see her - I give up with this website!), Gordon Lightfoot (with a very strong performance of If You Could Read myMind), John Martyn, Randy Newman, Linda Lewis, Joni Mitchell, Don McLean, Ralph McTell, Loudon Wainwright III, Don Williams and Paul Brady. Here is the link for catching up if you're in the UK: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00v9lhx They really should sack the person who wrote the information for this series on the website, because surprise surprise, today I see that this coming Friday there will be a part 4 of what has suddenly become a 4-part series! It promises songs from "Donovan, Gerry Rafferty, James Taylor, Elton John, Mickey Newbury, Neil Young, Tom Paxton, John Prine, Melanie, Jesse Winchester, Steve Forbert, Chris Rea, Carole King and others." Well I'm only the messenger, so don't shoot! If you want to see it but miss it, the above link will also easily take you to this part. And like all 3 previous Fridays, this time too it will be a total "Singer-songwriter" evening at BBC 4. Last Friday there was another Songwriters circle with Lyle Lovett, Joe Ely and John Hiatt. I must admit I didn't know them apart from some vague knowledge of Lyle Lovett, but I really enjoyed them all very much, possibly still in the afterglow of my enthusiasm for the film Crazy Heart. It was followed by Leonard Cohen: Songs from the Road (a selection of live performances from Leonard Cohen's 2008-2009 world tour) and then a live concert by Randy Newman. Again, all this can be found and watched if you navigate a bit from the link given above. And this coming Friday the Songwriters circle will be with David Gray, KT Tunstall and Ray LaMontagne. Lastly (but not leastly!), that will be followed by a programme that I for one am definitely planning to record on DVD: The Man Who Recorded America: Jac Holzman's Elektra Records Documentary about 1960s record label Elektra Records, run by suave visionary (their words not mine!) Jac Holzman. As before, I hope this will be of use to somebody! All the best, Lieve in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:50:57 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: DJRD Thanks for the encouragement Bob, I am definitely going to give it a shot ... and add it to my Coyote set list!! :-) NP: that Jane Siberry video! Great! - -----Original Message----- From: Robert Sartorius [mailto:bobsart48@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 10:01 PM To: joni@smoe.org; onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Cc: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #286 Last week Sue posted: "I don't think I've ever played this song, and I think it's because I find the melody boring. It's more Dylanesque in that it's really all about the lyrics. Now that I've said that, I think I need to play it. :-) Sue" Sue - even after discovering the Joni Tabs site that you created, it took me a few years to decide to give playing and singing DJRD a shot. It's got a back beat - you can't lose it. Well, maybe not a back beat, but the same beat as Rock And Roll Music, so if the beat is good enough for Chuck Berry, who sings about the back beat....................And the melody's Dylanesque all right, but it's there nevertheless. I suggest singing along with the song for a while. I'm betting you'll get into it. I think this is Joni's seminally autobiographical statement. I never fail to whoop when I listen to it. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 10:28:26 -0400 From: "Robert Sartorius" Subject: RE: A Case of You Mark in Seattle wrote "This has probably already made the rounds but I hadn't seen it before. Does anyone know when and where this performance took place? The voice almost sounds like 90s Joni. Or at least 80s. She's still hitting the high notes but a little 'smoke' has crept in. But it's a great performance." Not definitive, but other postings of this song on the net indicate it was Wembley arena in August 1984. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 10:06:32 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni_Wembley Arena_April 24, 1983 Mark Travis asked: > Subject: A Case of You > > This has probably already made the rounds but I hadn't seen it before. > Does anyone know when and where this performance took place? > The voice almost sounds like 90s Joni. Or at least 80s. She's still > hitting the high notes but a little 'smoke' has crept in. > But it's a great performance. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QZioxCg20I&feature=related > > Mark in Seattle > ------------------ Mark, this concert was recorded at Wembley Arena - April 24, 1983; recorded by the BBC and broadcast on June 19th on the BBC program "Old Grey Whistle Test" I UpLoaded -2- articles you might find interesting: 1. 1983.06.19, RadioTimes 2. 1983.04.25, The Times (of London) Both can be downloaded @ as for the broadcast itself, the following songs were included: 01. Free Man In Paris 02. Song For Sharon 03. God Must Be A Boogie Man 04. Big Yellow Taxi 05. A Case Of You 06. Carey 07. Amelia 08. (You're So Square) Baby, I Don't Care 09. Solid Love 10. Chinese Cafe / Unchained Melody 11. Woodstock take care. andmoreagain, - - - - - - - - - - s i m o n http://jonimitchell.com/chronology/complete.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/music/miscrecordings.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/music/songsaboutjoni.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/music/inspiredbyjoni_songs.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/music/inspiredbyjoni_albums.cfm Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance or conscientious stupidity. - - Martin Luther King, Jr. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:32:54 +0100 (BST) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: BSN in another language I wonder - and this may seem a bit critical, but I am just trying to be honest: how much of the meaning, let alone the subtlety, of these lyrics is really conveyed through sign language? I can imagine that the general drift gets across, but I doubt it is much more than than. Please if somebody can tell me that sign language is able to do more, then let me know and I would be delighted. But I have been disturbed recently by the activism of certain deaf people, who insist that their language is just as capable of expression as verbal language. They are very militant about it, there was even a deaf couple who wanted to have a child through in-vitro fertilisation to make sure it was also deaf, because they wanted it to carry on their "culture". I think this is just going too far. Yes, be proud of what you achieve in spite of your disability, but don't sell me BS about how wonderful it is to be deaf... Lieve in London - ----- Original Message ---- From: Bob Muller To: JMDL Sent: Mon, 18 October, 2010 11:23:50 Subject: BSN in another language OK, so I've heard this one in a zillion languages, but here's a new one on me - SIGN language. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruLwUanEJd0 Oh, and Clay Aiken is singing it. I found the signing very moving. Bob NP: Clay Aiken, BSN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:51:20 +0100 From: Paul Castle Subject: Joni connections at The London Jazz Festival Noticed a few Joni connections at this year's London Jazz Festival next month - http://bit.ly/9m8abV Herbie Hancock's playing two nights at The Royal Festival Hall (Nov 13 & 14) - http://bit.ly/aUEU2F "Hancock returns to London with the live version of his latest recording, The Imagine Project." Not sure if Pink, Seal and India Arie will be there (as in this video) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVAQl7qq-aI (89 year old!) Jon Hendricks - of Lambert, Hendricks and Ross ('Twisted' and 'Centerpiece') is playing three nights at Ronnie Scott's (Nov 18- 20) - http://bit.ly/aXzPcz Listen to their version of 'Centerpiece' @ http://blip.fm/~xjzuj and finally (who knows, there may be more) Manu Katche - who played drums (and talking drum) on Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm - is playing at the Queen Elizabeth Hall (Nov 12) - http://bit.ly/ankdiE Love this video of 'Number One' from his fab album 'Neighbourhood' which features Jan Garbarek on sax - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-UXOkpUSqU very best to all PaulC NP Manu Katche with Karima Francis (a brilliant young English singer from Blackpool who looks a lot like a Blonde On Blonde period Dylan) singing 'Use Somebody' (a Kings of Leon cover) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxYj1coS34k ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 15:10:28 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Laura Nyro (NJC) Gary, thank you! Did you also find and post this last year? (I can't believe it's been a year?!) I just put it on my Facebook page. I'm hoping someone looking in there may be able to shed some light on who "Laurishka" is. Thanks again--I would have missed this in the rush of my day if you hadn't shared it here. T On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 4:25 AM, Gary Z. wrote: > Happy Birthday, Laura. > > I love you so, I always will........ > > Gary Z. > > Video: Musical Architecture - available today only: > > > > http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&playlist=43215370&pt=1&i=1&videoid=104072183#playlist-watched > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 18:15:39 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN in another language Hey sweet Lieve, I know you could never be critical, but maybe curious. From taking courses in sign language and knowing hearing impaired people, the woman who was signing in the the BSN video did convey the song very well. Sign language is just as much as a language as any other . The hearing impaired world has just as much right to insist their language is justified that their language is as expressive if not more, than any other language. Jimmy In a message dated 10/18/2010 11:47:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk writes: > I wonder - and this may seem a bit critical, but I am just trying to be > honest: > how much of the meaning, let alone the subtlety, of these lyrics is really > > conveyed through sign language? I can imagine that the general drift gets > > across, but I doubt it is much more than than. Please if somebody can > tell me > that sign language is able to do more, then let me know and I would be > delighted. > But I have been disturbed recently by the activism of certain deaf people, > who > insist that their language is just as capable of expression as verbal > language. > They are very militant about it, there was even a deaf couple who wanted > to have > a child through in-vitro fertilisation to make sure it was also deaf, > because > they wanted it to carry on their "culture". I think this is just going > too > far. Yes, be proud of what you achieve in spite of your disability, but > don't > sell me BS about how wonderful it is to be deaf... > > Lieve in London ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 00:03:05 +0100 (BST) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: BSN in another language - probably NJC now Hi sweet Jimmy, I am glad you replied, because you speak from experience. I just want to clarify: of course I agree that sign language is a language, and of course it is justified to be recognised as a language. I am surprised that it is expressive enough to convey poetry, but I am really happy to hear it is. I couldn't see those subtleties in the clip, but I am glad to know that is just my own ignorance. Still, I don't buy it when people go over the top and want to make a child that is "especially deaf", as if nothing is lost and it is just a choice, like deciding to raise your child in French instead of English. I guess it's a thin line sometimes, between being rightly proud of your achievements, and then claiming that the disability is really a wonderful gift... Lieve ________________________________ From: "FMYFL@aol.com" To: lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk; scjoniguy@yahoo.com; joni@smoe.org Sent: Mon, 18 October, 2010 23:15:39 Subject: Re: BSN in another language Hey sweet Lieve, I know you could never be critical, but maybe curious. From taking courses in sign language and knowing hearing impaired people, the woman who was signing in the the BSN video did convey the song very well. Sign language is just as much as a language as any other . The hearing impaired world has just as much right to insist their language is justified that their language is as expressive if not more, than any other language. Jimmy In a message dated 10/18/2010 11:47:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk writes: I wonder - and this may seem a bit critical, but I am just trying to be honest: >how much of the meaning, let alone the subtlety, of these lyrics is really >conveyed through sign language? I can imagine that the general drift gets >across, but I doubt it is much more than than. Please if somebody can tell me >that sign language is able to do more, then let me know and I would be >delighted. >But I have been disturbed recently by the activism of certain deaf people, who >insist that their language is just as capable of expression as verbal language. > >They are very militant about it, there was even a deaf couple who wanted to have > >a child through in-vitro fertilisation to make sure it was also deaf, because >they wanted it to carry on their "culture". I think this is just going too >far. Yes, be proud of what you achieve in spite of your disability, but don't >sell me BS about how wonderful it is to be deaf... > >Lieve in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:17:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: BSN in another language njc I thought the person signing did a fantastic job as well. I felt the emotion from her expressions in her face , body, gestures. I dont know what to say about the persons who are strongly hoping for a deaf child. I dont kknow what it is like to be completely without hearing, however, I do know what it is like to be hearing impaired enough to require two hearing aids, (which I dont have for personal reasons) and to struggle daily vis a vis I miss out on a great many segments of conversation. Im sure you know this and I just want to say that in living in the confines of a hearing world, being hearing impaired is no picnic. Mainly because there is a tendancy for people to get really pissed off and quickly because you have to ask them to repeat themselves (several times), to slow down their speech, to not speak LOUDER but to articulate more clearly, and it helps to show you their face and to not bloody well be disrespectful because being hearing impaired can be a daily exercise in frustration and pain. Of course I never say the last bit. . Lieve, in no way and I suggesting that you are being disrespectful. I know you to be kind and considerate of others. Im just throwing my experiences out there. Not sure why. Just a need to talk about it I suppose. love, Mags - --- On Mon, 10/18/10, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN in another language To: lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk, scjoniguy@yahoo.com, joni@smoe.org Received: Monday, October 18, 2010, 6:15 PM Hey sweet Lieve, I know you could never be critical, but maybe curious. From taking courses in sign language and knowing hearing impaired people, the woman who was signing in the the BSN video did convey the song very well. Sign language is just as much as a language as any other . The hearing impaired world has just as much right to insist their language is justified that their language is as expressive if not more, than any other language. Jimmy In a message dated 10/18/2010 11:47:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk writes: > I wonder - and this may seem a bit critical, but I am just trying to be > honest: > how much of the meaning, let alone the subtlety, of these lyrics is really > > conveyed through sign language? I can imagine that the general drift gets > > across, but I doubt it is much more than than. Please if somebody can > tell me > that sign language is able to do more, then let me know and I would be > delighted. > But I have been disturbed recently by the activism of certain deaf people, > who > insist that their language is just as capable of expression as verbal > language. > They are very militant about it, there was even a deaf couple who wanted > to have > a child through in-vitro fertilisation to make sure it was also deaf, > because > they wanted it to carry on their "culture". I think this is just going > too > far. Yes, be proud of what you achieve in spite of your disability, but > don't > sell me BS about how wonderful it is to be deaf... > > Lieve in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 23:52:14 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: DJRD Astrology and Scorpio Totems I enjoyed reading your post about "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter". I'm going to expand on something you said. Here's a tip for the younger fans: a long time ago, an Indian chief was on the US nickel. Canada also has a 5 cent piece called a nickel. Mark, formerly known as Mark in Seattle, said in part >But nothing is totally one side or the other. Even the 'Chief' is a 'nickel Chief', referencing money and not worth much of that> Like so many things on DJRD, Hissing, and Hejira, she crams several things into just a few words. On the surface, she's just saying, "centered on Mother Earth, like the Indian chief who's face we see everyday." Then, as you said, she's has the joke about the nickel not being worth much in the world of capitalism. And finally, I think the nickel chief is another instance of one thing that is really two things (the duality theme). He has his noble, native American side, which is close to nature, and respecting the Mother Earth. He also has an urban side, his capitalist side, because his image has been co-opted for the money. His face is on the coin and the coin is going into a machine. It's a juke box, but it's still a machine and that's a contradiction or paradox. He's not a native American in the wild; he's an Indian on a nickel. He's both things at once, which is why he's in that song. He's the eagle and the serpent. There's a lot to think about in these albums. Sometimes, Joni's lyrics remind me of the Russian eggs we saw in school. Each one contains another, smaller egg, going on and on, smaller and smaller. The chief is noble but he's a nickel which is materialistic but he's producing music which bring us back to noblity, but it's pop music which brings us back to materialism. Is a nickel heads or tails? Wrong: it's both. And, of course, Joni lives in the city but she also lives in a cabin, without electricity. We think we know a lot about Joni, but then we find out that, to her friends, she's "Joan". Then we read the biography and find out that she's also "Roberta". Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2010 #312 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------