From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2010 #280 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, September 20 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 280 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni [T Peckham ] Long Overdue Report (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni worst rhymes - how about best lines? [Deb Messling ] favorite lines [Paul Ivice ] Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:13:52 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni Much ado about (arguably) very little, but interesting nonetheless. Webster's 11th has "clanDEStin" as the primary pronunciation. It is followed by the word *also,* which in this context means "A variant that is appreciably less common than the preceding variant . . .". Then it lists [clanDES] tine *or* teen *or* CLANdes [tin, tine, teen]. *"Or"* in Web 11 parlance means *"equal to."* Then we have this from p. 12a, Pronunciation/Variant Pronunciations: "The presence of variant pronunciations indicates that *not all educated speakers pronounce words the same way*. A second-place variant is not to be regarded as less acceptable than the pronunciation that is given first." This refers specifically to pronunciations Web 11 deem equal to each other, as in creek or crick. (In these here parts, "crick" would come first.) However, this is not the case with clandestine, as explained above, so I suppose that leaves the door open for disagreement. I always heard clanDEStin growing up. But when I first heard Joni's "clandesTINE" in "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow," I heard it as a very young singer soaking up everything Joni did, but most notably her utterly ingenious phrasing, which was a revelation to me. (Still is). It never occurred to me that she was clunkily mispronouncing it in order to make it rhyme. Same with "schoo-ells." I always go back to the Stephen Davis review that compelled me to buy my first Joni album, *For the Roses.* Here's the quote: "Yet her great charm and wit, her intense vocal acting and* phrasing abilities (the way she chooses to deal with a single word can change the feeling of an entire song)* and the sheer power and gumption of her presence combine to bring it all off and make it shine." http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=257&from=search I used that when I was learning to sing and trying to write songs, and never forgot it when singing covers. It's stuff like this that has made her such a major influence on so many generations of singers and musicians, whether they realize it or not. [Sorry if this comes out in funky formatting. Gmail has gone all double-spaced on me!] T On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:28 PM, wrote: > I think you are mistaken, Paul. > > Turn your speakers on and click here: > http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=clandestine&submit=Submit > > > > > - -- "An artist can show things that other people are terrified of expressing." - ---Louise Bourgeois ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 18:42:19 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Long Overdue Report (NJC) After some time has passed I decided it is high time for me to offer up my report on PazFest II. Although I am still feeling like I am missing a rib or something, my heart is filled with joy and happiness at what we achieved here Labor Day weekend. To all the folks who came to PazFest II, I am so grateful for your friendship and genuine love. My entire family had a blast with all of you and we are still reeling from the great fun we had that weekend. The party at my house was extra special because it was mostly us without all those pesky New Orleans musicians lurking around and distracting us. WE raised alot of money for the foundation and donations continue to come in from all of you wonderful people )even ones who came to the fest). For those of you who didn't come, Jody headed up an ambush to organize a beautiful gift for my family that was so thoughtful in so many ways and we love it. A beautiful 13 quart cooking pot by Le Crueset which we cooked a gumbo for the party and will cook so many more meals in the future. We always think of you guys when we use it and we hope that you all come share at our table again soon. Freda thinks we should do PazFest twice a year now and she loves them crazy Joni Peoples. In all seriousness she was very touched by you guys and blown away at how EVERYONE chipped in to help in all things (including Bob Ward cleaning our grill). No longer will she think we are some kind of cult or virtual stalkers!!! (ok hunny slip on these tennis shoes and lay down and drink your kool-aid the mothership will be here shortly). The pre show at the Ogden was really special and I was so honored that they let me host in the Patrick Taylor Library. Not just anyone gets in there to do what they want. I was able to record the show on 2-track audio and I am hoping that it came out pretty good cause there was some amazing magic that happened there. Day before yesterday I put up the multi tracks and started listening to the recordings. I had quite a bit of trouble with the hard disk that has all these precious memories but finally got it working. The really bad news is that my pal Sue Tierney McNamara's set is lost from the Wolf as is a portion of Kate Bennett's and this breaks my heart cause they both did so well and I was blessed to have them participate. I can only fault myself for this as I did make sure the engineer was rolling tape before we started that night and that is the only reason. Too many details, not enough Paz's! I am up to Bryan Thomas's set at the moment and wOw there are some amazing things as well as a couple of real clunkers but hey it's all good. Bryan of course knocked another one way out the park thru center field and made a whole in one and split the uprights at the football field down the street. I hope to have these rough mixed soon and get them out to all of you who participated. I have not even thought about the video as yet, but will get there as well. That night was so special standing on stage playing a Joni tune with my two sons and my oldest's best friend and my dear friend Pedro from Topanga! WoW I can't tell you what it feels like but I will never forget it. I think everyone has given great reports about the touristing fun and the performers etc. so I won't give my accounts of all that. Needless to say I had a great time at my own party and I could not stop smiling the whole time. I don' think I even thought "I will never do THIS again!!" LMAO! I promise to make some comments on all the individual performances once I get thru the task of mixing them etc. Still trying to figure out how I will proceed with the project. I have a bunch of pictures that I will try and get up on Facebook this week and I will send ya'll the link. I am home for 6 weeks so there is plenty of time for projects. In the meantime I just got home from a short tour with the band that started in Indiana. WE were in Indianapolis for 3 days and I was invited by another amazing lurker on the JMDL. LuAnn Lancton who reached out to me and invited me over to her home to have dinner with her and her husband Bill who is an amazing guitarist. WE had an amazing evening and I want to thank them so much for the hospitality and generosity especially coming out of such and amazing weekend with old friends. We had a lovely evening of cocktails, shrimp on the barbie, pork loin with mango salsa and roasted veggies and then a jam session with Bill and getting to play another one of Joni's old Ibanez Guitars (#4 actually)-(Hi Anita and Steph!!!!) Now I have actually played two of them. It is a gorgeous piece. They have a lovely home and its filled with Joni stuff all over the place. I hope they come out of lurkdom and join in on one of the upcoming fests. I hear there is one being planned in Honduras as we speak. Perhaps for the Grand Opening of the Hospital next year after we work out all the kinks. Love to you all and miss you. Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 21:52:29 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni worst rhymes - how about best lines? A thunderhead of judgment was Gathering in my gaze And looking down on everything I crashed into his arms You give me such pleasure You bring me such pain Who left her long black hair In our bathtub drain? Why have you soured and curdled me? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:57:33 -0400 From: Paul Ivice Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni I am not mistaken because I never made a judgment about whether Joni's pronunciation was good or bad. The question I answered was what was the most unusual phrasing or pronunciation in a line of Joni's songs. Regardless of the outcome of the exchange, Joni's pronunciation of "clan-des-TINE" remains the most unusual pronunciation I have heard in any of her songs. The first three online dictionaries I consulted agreed with the pronunciation I had always heard as correct, both growing up in the U.S. Midwest and living almost half my life now in the South. After citing that evidence, I asked if anyone had any authoritative evidence to the contrary. And now I have heard such evidence as provided in the link below, which describes the "clan-DES-tin" pronunciation as the American. Paul Ivice ;>) - -----Original Message----- From: T Peckham Then we have this from p. 12a, Pronunciation/Variant Pronunciations: "The presence of variant pronunciations indicates that not all educated speakers pronounce words the same way. A second-place variant is not to be regarded as less acceptable than the pronunciation that is given first." This refers specifically to pronunciations Web 11 deem equal to each other, as in creek or crick. (In these here parts, "crick" would come first.) However, this is not the case with clandestine, as explained above, so I suppose that leaves the door open for disagreement. I always heard clanDEStin growing up. But when I first heard Joni's "clandesTINE" in "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow," I heard it as a very young singer soaking up everything Joni did, but most notably her utterly ingenious phrasing, which was a revelation to me. (Still is). It never occurred to me that she was clunkily mispronouncing it in order to make it rhyme. Same with "schoo-ells." I always go back to the Stephen Davis review that compelled me to buy my first Joni album, For the Roses. Here's the quote: On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:28 PM, wrote: I think you are mistaken, Paul. Turn your speakers on and click here: http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=clandestine&submit=Submit ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:01:53 -0400 From: Paul Ivice Subject: favorite lines There are many, but one that just came to mind as I get my nightly background listed to "The Last Waltz" is :He's staring a hole in his scrambled eggs." Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:16:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni So, for you the issue is more that you hear the accent on the last syllable of clandestine? Interesting, because I hear it on the middle one - clan-DES-tine. Maybe the long /i/ in the last syllable (as Joni pronounces it) makes it sound like there's more emphasis on the last, but, to my ears, it's more like they've all (or at least the last two) got almost equal emphasis. Sorry to flog this. I was trying to ignore it because I've never been altogether clear how to pronounce that word, since it's one I've generally seen, rather than heard. I have no particular issue with it either way - they both sound OK to me. ________________________________ From: Paul Ivice To: northern.muse@gmail.com; rflynn@frontiernet.net Cc: joni@smoe.org; mark.travis@frontier.com; mark-leon@iinet.net.au Sent: Sun, September 19, 2010 10:57:33 PM Subject: Re: Rhymin' Simon ... er, Joni I am not mistaken because I never made a judgment about whether Joni's pronunciation was good or bad. The question I answered was what was the most unusual phrasing or pronunciation in a line of Joni's songs. Regardless of the outcome of the exchange, Joni's pronunciation of "clan-des-TINE" remains the most unusual pronunciation I have heard in any of her songs. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2010 #280 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------