From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2010 #234 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, August 8 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 234 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Song For Sharon - stream of (my) (sub) consciousness? [Mark-Leon Thor] Re: Australian Joni Tribute CD [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Australian Joni Tribute CD [Bob Muller ] Re: Song For Sharon - stream of (my) (sub) consciousness? [Dave Blackburn] JM.com goes global ["Les Irvin" ] Re: Song For Sharon - stream of (my) (sub) consciousness? ["Mark" Subject: Re: Song For Sharon - stream of (my) (sub) consciousness? Hi Mark. I like the direction your stream runs but, I'm not sure Joni knew Virginia Woolf. The line is, "A woman I knew just drowned herself". Is that coming from Joni or Sharon? Either way, "just" would bring it a bit too far into the future. That doesn't mean there is no connection at all. She may be comparing her friend to Virginia's fate. I'd like to investigate SFS a little closer. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 19:13:33 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Australian Joni Tribute CD I really like this CD, Bob. Mainly because I didn't expect to. No offence intended to the creators but, I expected a home made CD by some unsigned folk performers to be a little, let's say, rustic? A little basic. The production is very professional and, what surprised me a lot is the arrangements. They are faithful to the songs (for the most part) yet make the songs their own too. Sometimes by using different instruments than Joni or by the intonations in their singing. The opening track was the hook for me. I haven't heard any covers of Woodstock that impress me much until now. The arrangement is sparse and doesn't try to emulate Joni's range. The fiddle on Chelsea Morning takes the sugary sweetness out of the song a bit for me and gives it an earthy feel. The slide guitar on Willy blew me away. Kristina Olsen has turned it into a blues song and it works. I can picture her sitting in an old rocking chair, playing this.In the Dandenongs rather than the Ozarks. I love the mandolin replacing the dulcimer on Carey. You don't often hear trumpet in folk music either. Akasa's vocal arrangement on Big Yellow Taxi is spectacular. Really makes you feel like singing along. Kat Kraus' cover of Both Sides, Now takes its lead from Joni's 2000 version that floats on soft strings. I love Kat's strong voice too. This is an excellent release and I'm not just saying that because it's Australian. I fully expected this to be very, very basic. Not that there's anything wrong with a nice grass roots album. I was just pleasantly surprised by the variety of performances and the production. Excellent stuff. Mark in Sydney NP The Last Time I Saw Richard - Ange Takats ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 05:44:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Australian Joni Tribute CD Agreed. There's an overall freshness to the recordings, and I also liked the fact that they at least threw a couple deep tracks in there (Coyote, Willy, Richard). I foresee spinning it quite a bit. Bob NP: Dukes Of Stratosphear, "The Vanishing Girl" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 07:42:27 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Song For Sharon - stream of (my) (sub) consciousness? Wessex was one of the sub-kingdoms of Saxon period England ie not fictional. The name is no longer used, but oddly, Essex and Sussex remain. You can see where our West, East, and South terms come from. Even more odd is there was never. to my knowledge, a North (Nossex?) On Aug 6, 2010, at 7:38 PM, Mark wrote: > I was reading an essay written by Virginia Woolf about the novels of Thomas Hardy on the bus home from work tonight. Woolf admired Hardy's ability to create the natural settings for his novels, which mostly took place in a section of Great Britain that Hardy fictitiously called 'Wessex'. The settings of the novels were based on real places, however, and Wessex was loosely defined as a section of the 'south and southwest of England' according to Wikipedia. Most of Hardy's novels are referred to as 'pastoral'. They were set in places that were largely dependent on agriculture. The countryside and nature are major elements in his books. > > So what does this have to do with 'Song for Sharon'? Well, I usually sing to myself as I walk the 5 or so blocks from the bus stop to our house. Although Woolf didn't actually use the word 'pastoral' (I haven't finished the essay yet so maybe she did), that was the word that stuck in my head and that made me think of the last line of 'Song for Sharon' - 'I'll walk green pastures by and by'. So I started in to sing 'Song for Sharon' as I waited to cross highway 99 and trudge my way home. > > As I went through all of the verses of this rather long lyric, I was struck by how the song seemed to somehow echo several things that happened or that went through my head towards the end of my work day. > > The guy that sits in the cubicle next to me is a fairly new employee. He is getting married tomorrow. Another employee who had interned in our department and now works in our LA branch was in the office at the end of the day...with her fiancie. > > Then there was the essay I had been reading about a writer who wrote about 'green pastures' written by a woman who 'drowned herself'. > > And all of this comes to me while 'walking home' (but not on the railroad tracks and no swinging on the playground swing). > > I tried to sing this song recently and left out some of the lyrics. That is unusual for me. The verses in 'Song for Sharon' have a very definite, logical progression and if I concentrate on the links between them, I can almost always remember all of them in their proper order. I'm pretty sure I got them all tonight and my brain was making other connections the whole time. > > So was it coincidence, one word making me think of a particular song, or did my brain sub-consciously pull this particular song out of more than one thread of the fabric of my day? > > I still seem to find something new to marvel at every time I listen to or sing a Joni Mitchell song. > > Mark in Seattle > ps: 'Song for Sharon' takes about the same amount of time to sing as it takes to walk from the bus stop to our house. I think I was just walking into the driveway when I finished the last verse. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 10:51:25 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: JM.com goes global Check the lower left corner of any page on JoniMitchell.com to translate it into any language. Still don't have a solution as to how to translate it for all you Brits though. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 10:41:12 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Song For Sharon - stream of (my) (sub) consciousness? Hi Mark, I wasn't investigating Joni's intention with the song. I was just fitting it in to the events of my day and the train of my own thoughts. Wondering why I chose to sing that particular song and seeing all of these connections. I never intended to say that Joni's 'a woman I knew just drowned herself' was Virginia Woolf. But since I had just been reading Woolf it seemed eerie when I came to that line that I would choose that particular song, mostly on the basis of the line 'I'll walk green pastures by and by' as it relates to the settings of Thomas Hardy's novels. The essay I had been reading about Hardy just happened to be written by Woolf and I hadn't thought about her suicide when I started singing the song. Then I came to that line and it made me wonder if my choice was more sub-conscious than I had thought. Plus all the references to weddings and marriage in the song and the 2 people in my office soon to be married was another connection. Life imitating art, I guess. Not meant to be an interpretation of the song. Just my wool-gathering. Not Joni's. Have I confused everybody yet? Then my work here is done. ;-) Makr in Seattle - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark-Leon Thorne" Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 12:34 AM To: Cc: Subject: Re: Song For Sharon - stream of (my) (sub) consciousness? > Hi Mark. > > I like the direction your stream runs but, I'm not sure Joni knew > Virginia Woolf. The line is, "A woman I knew just drowned herself". Is > that coming from Joni or Sharon? Either way, "just" would bring it a bit > too far into the future. That doesn't mean there is no connection at all. > She may be comparing her friend to Virginia's fate. > > I'd like to investigate SFS a little closer. > > Mark in Sydney Hi ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 11:11:15 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: was Song For Sharon - now Wessex njc Hi Dave, Of course you are quite right. I guess I wrote a bit of misinformation in my post on this subject. Thank you for correcting me I did read this on Wikipedia as well but chose to leave that information out. At the times that Hardy's novels were set in, Wessex had become the counties you mention in your email. Also, Hardy changed most of the names of towns and cities in his novels - Dorchester was called Casterbridge in Hardy's Wessex. I guess my logic was that there was no Wessex on the map of England at the time Hardy wrote about. Also I had already written enough on a subject that is probably of little interest to most people on the JMDL. This is the last line of Wikipedia's entry on the subject (and of course we all know that Wikipedia does not set the standard for accuracy): "Hardy's conception of Wessex as a separate, cohesive geographical and political identity has proved powerful, despite the fact it was originally created purely as an artistic conceit, and has spawned a lucrative tourist trade, and even a secessionist Wessex Regionalist Party." "Originally created purely as an artistic conceit" implies something separate or at least modified from the historical Wessex. Either that or I was just being lazy and this is mere justification for it. I will leave that for you to judge. Maybe 'Nossex' is a little too close to 'no sex'? Mark in Seattle - ------------------------------------------------ From: "Dave Blackburn" Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 7:42 AM To: "Mark" ; "jonilist JMDL" Subject: Re: Song For Sharon - stream of (my) (sub) consciousness? > Wessex was one of the sub-kingdoms of Saxon period England ie not > fictional. The name is no longer used, but oddly, Essex and Sussex remain. > You can see where our West, East, and South terms come from. Even more odd > is there was never. to my knowledge, a North (Nossex?) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 10:59:19 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Song For Sharon - stream of (my) (sub) consciousness? From: "Dave Blackburn" Even more odd is there was never. to my knowledge, a North (Nossex?) Um, yeah, there is. It's called marriage. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 16:27:22 -0700 From: "Watts, Lesli" Subject: RE : njc we may be going to berkeley and then healdsberg next weekend - minifest? hi bay area people! what are you doing next friday or saturday night? we're trying to get it together for a road trip. pete torqued his elbow and can't play drums right yet but we're up for a get together. email me off list. lesli ________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 16:54:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Song For Sharon - stream of (my) (sub) consciousness? Mark, one thing I find with songs that speak to me, and Joni's in particular, is that there is almost always (maybe always always) something in her songs that can relate to what may be going on right now in my life or lives around me. I don't know whether choosing a particular song is a subconscious way of expressing whatever is going on in the now, or if the songs are so deep and so universal that we find ways to relate them to right now. That happens a lot for me with Joni's songs and I'd say with anything from Hejira in particular and probably the other albums just before or after it. Many of these songs are moody and stream-of-conscious-like, so much so that they seem like they might have sprung forth without any effort whatsover, but I'm sure that's not likely the case. To me, Joni lyrics are as relevant and quotable as anything in the Bible or Shakespeare and there's a Joni quote to fit any circumstance. I don't know whether Joni ever read Virginia Woolf, and I don't think she has ever mentioned her, but the ideas really are universal. I'm sure someone wrote here once that the woman who "drowned herself" actually died in another way (drug overdose?) and I guess people who drown themselves don't usually do it in a well, and maybe it's more of a metaphor, except that she goes on to say that she was "just shaking off futility or punishing somebody," and that friends were "calling up... all emotions and abstraction," so I guess it was a literal suicide. Often people say a suicide is "punishing somebody," but suicide or no, the symbolism of someone drowning in a well can represent not just death but despair and it's very powerful. And when you hear that the well was "deep and muddy," that could describe many a desperate situation. Joni covers a huge territory in this song alone (death and birth and death and birth), and the choices we make all through life that present different outcomes and make us wonder what might have happened if we had turned left instead of right. ________________________________ On Aug 6, 2010, at 7:38 PM, Mark wrote: > I was reading an essay written by Virginia Woolf about the novels of Thomas >Hardy on the bus home from work tonight. Woolf admired Hardy's ability to >create the natural settings for his novels, which mostly took place in a section >of Great Britain that Hardy fictitiously called 'Wessex'. The settings of the >novels were based on real places, however, and Wessex was loosely defined as a >section of the 'south and southwest of England' according to Wikipedia. Most of >Hardy's novels are referred to as 'pastoral'. They were set in places that were >largely dependent on agriculture. The countryside and nature are major elements >in his books. > > So what does this have to do with 'Song for Sharon'? Well, I usually sing to >myself as I walk the 5 or so blocks from the bus stop to our house. Although >Woolf didn't actually use the word 'pastoral' (I haven't finished the essay yet >so maybe she did), that was the word that stuck in my head and that made me >think of the last line of 'Song for Sharon' - 'I'll walk green pastures by and >by'. So I started in to sing 'Song for Sharon' as I waited to cross highway 99 >and trudge my way home. > > As I went through all of the verses of this rather long lyric, I was struck by >how the song seemed to somehow echo several things that happened or that went >through my head towards the end of my work day. > > The guy that sits in the cubicle next to me is a fairly new employee. He is >getting married tomorrow. Another employee who had interned in our department >and now works in our LA branch was in the office at the end of the day...with >her fiancie. > > Then there was the essay I had been reading about a writer who wrote about >'green pastures' written by a woman who 'drowned herself'. > > And all of this comes to me while 'walking home' (but not on the railroad >tracks and no swinging on the playground swing). > > I tried to sing this song recently and left out some of the lyrics. That is >unusual for me. The verses in 'Song for Sharon' have a very definite, logical >progression and if I concentrate on the links between them, I can almost always >remember all of them in their proper order. I'm pretty sure I got them all >tonight and my brain was making other connections the whole time. > > So was it coincidence, one word making me think of a particular song, or did my >brain sub-consciously pull this particular song out of more than one thread of >the fabric of my day? > > I still seem to find something new to marvel at every time I listen to or sing >a Joni Mitchell song. > > Mark in Seattle > ps: 'Song for Sharon' takes about the same amount of time to sing as it takes >to walk from the bus stop to our house. I think I was just walking into the >driveway when I finished the last verse. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2010 #234 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------