From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2010 #203 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, July 8 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 203 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Re: You're Notches [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: You're Notches [Gerald Notaro ] Re: You're Notches [T Peckham ] James Taylor and Carole King, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Your notches, was You're Notches ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Great Dudes in History ["Mark" ] RE: Great Dudes in History ["Richard Flynn" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 17:28:17 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Re: You're Notches >There's also the assumption that she can spell correctly or differentiate between "your" and "you're." Many otherwise intelligent, articulate people can't spel wurth shite and don't know the difference between your and you're or there, they're and their. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here. I had this very conversation with my kids last night. My son was confused over some spelling and grammar mistakes in a paper his astronomy prof had handed out. Both kids expressed concern that a university professor would make these kinds of mistakes but there are many very bright people, who are bright at what they do, but who would never win a spelling bee. And this was a science prof, after all, not an English prof. My brother the engineer has so-so spelling, but I never really did understand calculus, so there you go.< This occurred to me too, Catherine. She may not have paid attention to her spelling when she wrote this. I have noticed these mistakes in English when corresponding with Americans. I guess it's a difference in the education systems but, when I went to school, there was an emphasis put on this type of mistake. Putting them in sentences was a common lesson so as not to confuse them and I guess it worked, They are mistakes that you rarely see in Australian English. The that I do see creeping into the language more and more is the incorrect use of the apostrophe. It is often used incorrectly before a plural S. As in, "CD's" instead of CDs. The hard thing is that only Joni knows what she intended. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 07:49:51 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: You're Notches On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Mark wrote: > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Gerald Notaro" > >> How can anyone read that and think that Joni's intent was to say, in >>> effect, >>> "You, female character, are notches!" >>> >>> >> I can, and do. I don't see how it is hard to believe that he is telling >> her >> that, in effect, she is a conquest, a sexual one like all the other >> notches >> in his gun. She is nothing special, nothing liberated, just a doll, >> screwed >> to the wall. >> >> Jerry >> > > I guess I don't have to tell anyone that I'm with Les all the way on this > one. > > If the intent was to imply that the woman is just another conquest, why > would the plural 'notches' be used? Why wouldn't the line be 'you're a > notch, liberation doll'? > Simple. She is sexually liberated and he knows he is not the only man to have "conquered" her. His isn't the only gun.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:11:54 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: You're Notches From the page about JoelB that Simon provided a link to: *"Joel Bernstein photographer, musician, author and archivist and is the world's leading authority on Joni Mitchel, " [Yes, I know that Mr. Bernstein neither wrote this or proofed it.] :-P * - -- Curiosity is my religion. David Ryan Adams ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:57:51 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: James Taylor and Carole King, njc J.T. mentions that he was on the road with Joni when he wrote "You Can Close Your Eyes". Other than that, it's njc, all about the tour with Carole King. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128359410 Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:31:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: James Taylor and Carole King, njc from the article: "Carole said to me something I'll never forget," he says. "She said, 'Not only do you want to leave the audience wanting more, you want to leave yourself wanting more.' " Thinking its like the song says: "I hope the road don't come to own me". Em - --- On Wed, 7/7/10, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: From: Jim L'Hommedieu Subject: James Taylor and Carole King, njc To: joni@smoe.org Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 6:57 PM J.T. mentions that he was on the road with Joni when he wrote "You Can Close Your Eyes". Other than that, it's njc, all about the tour with Carole King. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128359410 Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:51:05 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Your notches, was You're Notches Okay, I have to admit that this new evidence has persuaded me. Until now, I thought "he" was saying "you think you are all liberated but you are notches, liberation doll." It sounds like Joni's intent is clearly different. So I respect the author's intent. I regard it as her "interpretation" of the lyric but I also hold out some independence for my own interpretation. I may have read the lyric sheet a few times but the meaning, my interpretation, boils up from the sound of the words, and my own experience set. In my skull, the sound of those words means something different from what she intended. I also think that Joni has several lines where the sounds can produce different meanings. As Catherine said, there/their/they're. I think that Joni's mind is capable of accepting the ambiguity, "liking" it, preferring it, even if she's not 100% aware of it. (Fill in your own example here.) In retrospect, she put the "glasses" and the "notches" right next to each other and I missed it... >>A room full of glasses>> >>He says "Your notches, liberation doll">> http://jonimitchell.com/music/song.cfm?id=105 It's a great thread. I respect everyone around me and all that; I'm chalking this up to another mondegreen- it's my fault. Jim L'Hommedieu BTW, Joni is also widely rumored to have misspelled "Judgment" but Merriam-Webster also recognizes judgement. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judgment About "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow", Joni said in part, >Oh! I think he's referring to the bottles in the room. Yeah, 'you've driven me to drink' basically is what it is. You know, like the notches on a gunslinger's gun? You know, like you can take credit for... everyone of these bottles has your name on it, kind of? That's what he's saying to her in the song. Your notches liberation, you know... a roomful of glasses, your notches... isn't that it? A roomful of glass... you know... your notches liberation doll.> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 20:02:41 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni's Ibanez, was Joni Multiple Guitars, Different tunings And here is Anita playing it in August 2003 at the Full Moon Resort: http://tinyurl.com/2g4s9hg Dave Blackburn said, >My photo of Anita G's Joni guitar is here http://tinyurl.com/2duwlfb> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 18:15:31 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: Great Dudes in History Joni made the list!!! http://dudeism.com/greatdudes.html enjoy, gene ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:04 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Great Dudes in History Lol! This too funny! (and appropriate) Mark in Seattle - -------------------------------------------------- From: "gene" Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 6:15 PM To: "joni" Subject: Great Dudes in History > Joni made the list!!! > http://dudeism.com/greatdudes.html > > enjoy, gene ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:05:00 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Great Dudes in History It has notches, too! "While most of the sixties rock revolution was fomented by guys, the ladies seemed to end up as notches in their frayed leather belts of free love, or dead from intemperance like Mama Cass and Janis Joplin. Not so for the quintessentially cool dudeist saint Mitchell who sang smartly about individualism while smoking and cursing like a sailor and living life on her own terms. She paints pretty good too." > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > gene > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:16 PM > To: joni > Subject: Great Dudes in History > > Joni made the list!!! > http://dudeism.com/greatdudes.html > > enjoy, gene ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2010 #203 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------