From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2010 #168 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, June 7 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 168 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Bert and Pegi (njc) [Paul Castle ] Re: WTRF LP re-master [Gerald Notaro ] Re: Some Joni Covers Links [Bob Muller ] Re: Some Joni Covers Links [Bob Muller ] Joni vinyl remasters [Chuck Eisenhardt ] Re: Some Joni Covers Links [Catherine McKay ] Re: njc questions about Oregon Coast ["gene" ] Re: Joni vinyl remasters [Gerald Notaro ] Re: njc questions about Oregon Coast ["gene" ] NJC, was Joni vinyl remasters [Chuck Eisenhardt ] Re: njc questions about Oregon Coast ["Mark Scott" Subject: Bert and Pegi (njc) Following Patti's recent 'Pegi Young' thread, I've just been reading that Bert Jansch, who has been touring the States with Neil Young for the past month, will now be playing a few dates on the West Coast supported by Neil's wife Pegi - see details @ http://www.bertjansch.com/ I recently found the wonderful 1992 documentary film about Bert - "Acoustic Routes" - on YouTube and have put all 8 parts together on my posterous @ http://paulcastle.posterous.com/ very best to all PaulC NP (in Part 4) 'Daybreak' by Bert Jansch (the song he wrote about coming out of Les Cousins in London's Soho on a Sunday morning after an an "all-nighter" - b+ Aaah yes, I remember it well! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 08:29:09 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: WTRF LP re-master I have a feeling , Mark, that these vinyl releases are based on the DCC remasters that you and I own. I doubt if they were done from scratch from the original master recordings, which would have been the best way to do it. There are two Japanese SHM-CD releases out now. One is Clouds the other of Blue. I think they are the best so far and hope more are released. Information on this process: The high quality SHM-CD (Super High Material CD) format features enhanced audio quality through the use of a special polycarbonate plastic. Using a process developed by JVC and Universal Music Japan discovered through the joint companies' research into LCD display manufacturing, SHM-CDs feature improved transparency on the data side of the disc, allowing for more accurate reading of CD data by the CD player laser head. SHM-CD format CDs are fully compatible with standard CD players. Jerry On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Mark Scott wrote: > I have a 24k gold plated cd 'original master recording' of WTRF that I > picked up years ago. I wonder how it would compare with these vinyl > releases? I also have DCC 24k gold plated cds of Blue and Court and Spark. > Any opinions about how these might compare to these vinyl remasters? > > I didn't pay a fortune for any of these but they were more than a regular > cd costs. In fact, I think I won the Blue cd in a contest that Wally Breese > ran may years ago when he still had JoniMitchell.com. I've always wondered > if the other 2 were worth the price, sound-wise. I don't think they are > available anymore and are rarities. But is the sound quality really > superior to say the HDCD releases or a mint condition well mastered vinyl > record? To me, the Court and Spark DCC sounds superior to any other cd > version and I have 3 - the first cd pressing (really inferior sound but I > was determined that it would be the first cd I owned), the HDCD and the DCC > gold. What can I say? Maybe I'm a sucker for new recording technology but > this may be my favorite record of all time > > I know there is somewhat of a trend back toward vinyl these days. I have a > friend who insists the sound is 'warmer' and superior to most cds. I > haven't played a vinyl record in years and I don't know if my turntable even > works anymore. I always liked the durability and ease of use of cds too > much to go back to vinyl. I was never fanatical about how I took care of my > records so I doubt any of them are in exactly pristine condition. You don't > have to be too careful with a cd to keep the sound of it intact. No > scratches or crackles. > > I still have my vinyl records, though. And I don't plan on parting with > them anytime soon if only because of the album covers which you just can't > duplicate on a little cd booklet. > > Mark in Seattle > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Chuck Eisenhardt" > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 7:57 AM > To: "JMDL List" > Subject: WTRF LP re-master > > (sorry if this is old news) There is a 180-vinyl remaster of Wild Things >> Run Fast >> currently in pre-order at Soundstage Direct. Bernie Grundman from the >> original >> analog masters. Two 45rpm disks, $60.00... >> >> So there now exist vinyl re-masters of Blue, HOSL, and LOTC. Is it a bit >> surprising to see this one appearing next? May have to do with obtaining >> rights, >> quality/condition of the masters, and things other than artistic >> considerations? >> >> I'd wait for reviews, but if it's anything like the Rhino Blue reissue >> it's a delicious >> propect. Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 07:38:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Some Joni Covers Links I'm sure that Bettye would do it justice, I'd be happier still if she would record the stunning version she did of 'Last Chance Lost' at Carnegie Hall. Bob NP: Ani, "Back Back Back" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 07:40:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Some Joni Covers Links < Etta James doing "Amelia." Where does this come from? Is it one of her albums, or is part of that elusive tribute that had Janet Jackson doing "Black Crow"?> Well....Janet's track was 'The Beat Of Black Wings', but hey, if you have a copy of her doing 'Black Crow' send it on! :-) And the answer to the question is yes, this Etta James cut is from the same disc, "A Case Of Joni" that never got released. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 11:10:45 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: Joni vinyl remasters Jerry, I don't know exactly what you mean when you say that you 'have a feeling' about the origins and production of these remasters (specifically the ones I've linked to below). These four productions are widely advertised as 're-mastered (or simply mastered) from original analog tapes'. I only have the Rhino/RTI pressing of Blue (in fact, I have 2, one unopened) so I cannot speak from my experience as to the sonic qualities of C&S, LOTC, and HOSL. But I have posted here and elsewhere that I find the Rhino/RTI Blue is a marvel. Most reviewers agree. The production note further indicate that most tracks were cut completely without EQ. I leave it to you to imagine I own a few other 180gram and 'audiophile this or that' which are not remastered, or not remastered from analog, and they are not remarkable. (Who's Next, Clear Spot). Theiy are pleasant, and stable, and pressed to virgin vinyl, but I wouldn't go so far as to write poetry about them. It be iinteresting also, to consider that Blue (at least) is analog from the get-go (board, effects, patch, mix) for whatever happy nuances that might create. That the other Joni albums are advertised as 'mastered from original analog tapes' I don't have any 'feelings' about that, except I wish I can someday hear and perhaps even own them. Talk about 'feelings' --- Bernie Grundman is likely heartbroken! http://www.musicdirect.com/product/78183 The best I could do is send you a 44.1 CD copy of this record (which after 5-6 plays has developed a bit of surface noise, but I'd be happy to do that and you could compare the two CD's at least....let me know. ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 08:23:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Some Joni Covers Links Hmm. Crows have black wings. I guess that's what I was thinking. ________________________________ From: Bob Muller To: Catherine McKay ; JMDL Cc: Monicard Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 10:40:51 AM Subject: Re: Some Joni Covers Links < Etta James doing "Amelia." Where does this come from? Is it one of her albums, or is part of that elusive tribute that had Janet Jackson doing "Black Crow"?> Well....Janet's track was 'The Beat Of Black Wings', but hey, if you have a copy of her doing 'Black Crow' send it on! :-) And the answer to the question is yes, this Etta James cut is from the same disc, "A Case Of Joni" that never got released. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 07:58:37 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: Re: njc questions about Oregon Coast Hello Robert: Check these links out: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194039 http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58253&highlight=northern+california+coast http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164925&highlight=northern+california+coast Enjoy your trip. You're going to be going through some of the best parts of Oregon and California. Very spiritual and don't forget to bring a camera. Stay safe, gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Procyk" To: Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:05 PM Subject: njc questions about Oregon Coast > Hey Listas, > > At the end of the month, if everything goes as planned, Ellie-Mae and I > are loadin up the truck and taking the 4 lil' hillbillies and are headin' > out to the Oregon Coast for a couple of weeks. Are there any listers > familiar with the area who can give any advice of places to go and see > and do? Thus far, I've got some time in Newport booked, and in Port > Orford, but I'd love to know what is really worth seeing along the coast, > and where are some cool towns to stay in. We also plan on spending a few > days in Northern California if time allows to see the Redwoods, are are > thinking of staying in Eureka. Any advice for that area as well? Also, > if we did something really crazy and took off south to Monterey or Santa > Cruz for a few days, how hideously pricey would it be for accomodations? > Remember, I'm travelling with 4 kids aged 9 to 2 years, and so I this > ain't a romantic type of trip. And, remember, I'm travelling on a > budget. > > Anyway, if anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it. > > Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 11:37:51 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Joni vinyl remasters I guess I am suspicious because these all came out after the remastering to cd's occurred first and the descriptions for them do not say they were specifically remastered for the vinyl pressings, or exclusively remastered for these vinyl pressings. Simply stating they are remastered does not mean they are not the remasterings done for the cd releases, especially since Rhino did the remasterings for the cd's. Your link credits Steve Hoffman with the remastering. And Steve Hoffman did the original DCC Gold remastering for Blue and still owns the rights to it. Though it is possible he tweaked a bit for the vinyl pressing. In any case, that is why I have "a feeling." Jerry On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Chuck Eisenhardt < c.eisenhardt@earthlink.net> wrote: > Jerry, > > I don't know exactly what you mean when you say that you 'have > a feeling' about the origins and production of these remasters > (specifically the ones I've linked to below). These four productions > are widely advertised as 're-mastered (or simply mastered) from original > analog tapes'. > > I only have the Rhino/RTI pressing of Blue (in fact, I have 2, one > unopened) so I cannot speak from my experience as to the sonic qualities > of C&S, LOTC, and HOSL. But I have posted here and elsewhere that > I find the Rhino/RTI Blue is a marvel. Most reviewers agree. The production > note further indicate that most tracks were cut completely without EQ. > I leave it to you to imagine > > I own a few other 180gram and 'audiophile this or that' which are not > remastered, or not remastered from analog, and they are not remarkable. > (Who's Next, Clear Spot). Theiy are pleasant, and stable, and pressed to > virgin > vinyl, but I wouldn't go so far as to write poetry about them. It be > iinteresting > also, to consider that Blue (at least) is analog from the get-go (board, > effects, > patch, mix) for whatever happy nuances that might create. > > That the other Joni albums are advertised as 'mastered from original analog > tapes' > I don't have any 'feelings' about that, except I wish I can someday hear > and perhaps even own them. Talk about 'feelings' --- Bernie Grundman > is likely heartbroken! > > http://www.musicdirect.com/product/78183 > > The best I could do is send you a 44.1 CD copy of this record (which after > 5-6 plays > has developed a bit of surface noise, but I'd be happy to do that and you > could > compare the two CD's at least....let me know. > > ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 09:34:27 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: Re: njc questions about Oregon Coast I'm sorry everyone. I forgot about the disclaimer when one firsts enters Tetongravity blog page. But thank you Mark for telling folks it is NOT a porn site. Maybe ski porn. Teton Gravity is a forum for everyone who loves the mountains and skiing. Since the inception TG has branched into many other forums. Even if you don't ski, kayak, mountain bike, or other outdoorsy things it still a great read---informative too. And some very funny funny great people, very much like JMDL. peace~~gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Scott" To: "gene" ; "Robert Procyk" ; Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 9:08 AM Subject: Re: njc questions about Oregon Coast > Hi Rob, > > I agree with Gene. The Oregon coast and the California redwood country > are remarkable places. > > I haven't been down there for a long time but someone on the first link > that Gene posted mentioned the town of Manzanita. (btw, the tetongravity > site is not a porn site - it's safe to click 'yes' on the agreement about > 'adult material' that pops up when you click on the links :-) ) It's a > bit north of Newport but it is (or was, the last time I was there and that > has probably been more than 10 years ago) off the beaten path and is not > the touristy circus that Cannon Beach and some other coastal towns are. > It does have a nice beach and views of rocky coast to the north and south. > > There was also this entry: 'The Yachats/Newport area of OR is nice, if a > bit touristy. It's a beautiful area and worth seeing; don't miss the Rogue > Brewery in Newport. Stop at the Luna Fish Corp. in Yachats for excellent > seafood; if the owner is there, tell him his old deckie "Jackson" sent > you - he'll either comp your meal or kick you out.' > > I can't speak for the Rogue Brewery or the Luna Fish Corp., but the > stretch of coast from Newport down to Yachats is beautiful. Rocky & > rugged with nice beaches scattered here & there. Not as spectacular as > the Big Sur coast in California but very beautiful in its own special way. > I envy you. > > Mark in Seattle > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "gene" > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:58 AM > To: "Robert Procyk" ; > Subject: Re: njc questions about Oregon Coast > >> Hello Robert: >> >> Check these links out: >> http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194039 >> >> http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58253&highlight=northern+california+coast >> >> http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164925&highlight=northern+california+coast >> >> Enjoy your trip. You're going to be going through some of the best parts >> of Oregon and California. Very spiritual and don't forget to bring a >> camera. >> >> Stay safe, gene >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Procyk" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:05 PM >> Subject: njc questions about Oregon Coast >> >> >>> Hey Listas, >>> >>> At the end of the month, if everything goes as planned, Ellie-Mae and I >>> are loadin up the truck and taking the 4 lil' hillbillies and are >>> headin' >>> out to the Oregon Coast for a couple of weeks. Are there any listers >>> familiar with the area who can give any advice of places to go and see >>> and do? Thus far, I've got some time in Newport booked, and in Port >>> Orford, but I'd love to know what is really worth seeing along the >>> coast, >>> and where are some cool towns to stay in. We also plan on spending a >>> few >>> days in Northern California if time allows to see the Redwoods, are are >>> thinking of staying in Eureka. Any advice for that area as well? Also, >>> if we did something really crazy and took off south to Monterey or Santa >>> Cruz for a few days, how hideously pricey would it be for accomodations? >>> Remember, I'm travelling with 4 kids aged 9 to 2 years, and so I this >>> ain't a romantic type of trip. And, remember, I'm travelling on a >>> budget. >>> >>> Anyway, if anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it. >>> >>> Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 12:52:41 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: NJC, was Joni vinyl remasters Jerry I can see your point. Here's some interesting background on RTI... I especially appreciated the last image here...) http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue13/rti.htm Chuck On Jun 6, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Gerald Notaro wrote: > I guess I am suspicious because these all came out after the > remastering to cd's occurred first and the descriptions for them do > not say they were specifically remastered for the vinyl pressings, > or exclusively remastered for these vinyl pressings. Simply stating > they are remastered does not mean they are not the remasterings > done for the cd releases, especially since Rhino did the > remasterings for the cd's. Your link credits Steve Hoffman with > the remastering. And Steve Hoffman did the original DCC Gold > remastering for Blue and still owns the rights to it. Though it is > possible he tweaked a bit for the vinyl pressing. In any case, that > is why I have "a feeling." > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 10:01:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Bert and Pegi (njc) Paul, thanks so much for gathering these parts of the documentary together. Em - --- On Sun, 6/6/10, Paul Castle wrote: From: Paul Castle Subject: Bert and Pegi (njc) To: joni@smoe.org Cc: "Patti Parlette" , "Em" , Gertus@aol.com Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 8:15 AM Following Patti's recent 'Pegi Young' thread, I've just been reading that Bert Jansch, who has been touring the States with Neil Young for the past month, will now be playing a few dates on the West Coast supported by Neil's wife Pegi - see details @ http://www.bertjansch.com/ I recently found the wonderful 1992 documentary film about Bert - "Acoustic Routes" - on YouTube and have put all 8 parts together on my posterous @ http://paulcastle.posterous.com/ very best to all PaulC NP (in Part 4) 'Daybreak' by Bert Jansch (the song he wrote about coming out of Les Cousins in London's Soho on a Sunday morning after an an "all-nighter" - b+ Aaah yes, I remember it well! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 09:08:54 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: njc questions about Oregon Coast Hi Rob, I agree with Gene. The Oregon coast and the California redwood country are remarkable places. I haven't been down there for a long time but someone on the first link that Gene posted mentioned the town of Manzanita. (btw, the tetongravity site is not a porn site - it's safe to click 'yes' on the agreement about 'adult material' that pops up when you click on the links :-) ) It's a bit north of Newport but it is (or was, the last time I was there and that has probably been more than 10 years ago) off the beaten path and is not the touristy circus that Cannon Beach and some other coastal towns are. It does have a nice beach and views of rocky coast to the north and south. There was also this entry: 'The Yachats/Newport area of OR is nice, if a bit touristy. It's a beautiful area and worth seeing; don't miss the Rogue Brewery in Newport. Stop at the Luna Fish Corp. in Yachats for excellent seafood; if the owner is there, tell him his old deckie "Jackson" sent you - he'll either comp your meal or kick you out.' I can't speak for the Rogue Brewery or the Luna Fish Corp., but the stretch of coast from Newport down to Yachats is beautiful. Rocky & rugged with nice beaches scattered here & there. Not as spectacular as the Big Sur coast in California but very beautiful in its own special way. I envy you. Mark in Seattle - -------------------------------------------------- From: "gene" Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:58 AM To: "Robert Procyk" ; Subject: Re: njc questions about Oregon Coast > Hello Robert: > > Check these links out: > http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194039 > > http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58253&highlight=northern+california+coast > > http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164925&highlight=northern+california+coast > > Enjoy your trip. You're going to be going through some of the best parts > of Oregon and California. Very spiritual and don't forget to bring a > camera. > > Stay safe, gene > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Procyk" > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:05 PM > Subject: njc questions about Oregon Coast > > >> Hey Listas, >> >> At the end of the month, if everything goes as planned, Ellie-Mae and I >> are loadin up the truck and taking the 4 lil' hillbillies and are headin' >> out to the Oregon Coast for a couple of weeks. Are there any listers >> familiar with the area who can give any advice of places to go and see >> and do? Thus far, I've got some time in Newport booked, and in Port >> Orford, but I'd love to know what is really worth seeing along the coast, >> and where are some cool towns to stay in. We also plan on spending a few >> days in Northern California if time allows to see the Redwoods, are are >> thinking of staying in Eureka. Any advice for that area as well? Also, >> if we did something really crazy and took off south to Monterey or Santa >> Cruz for a few days, how hideously pricey would it be for accomodations? >> Remember, I'm travelling with 4 kids aged 9 to 2 years, and so I this >> ain't a romantic type of trip. And, remember, I'm travelling on a >> budget. >> >> Anyway, if anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it. >> >> Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 13:27:28 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Subject: Re: WTRF LP re-master Some folks pay $2,000 for a tonearm, then $5,000 for a turntable to hold it, another $2,000 for a phono cartridge (needle to you and me), and finally, $5,000 for a phono preamp. If you play in that arena, $60 for a record is chicken feed. You could do that all day long and not break a sweat. I have a nice version of "Wild Things Run Fast" on vinyl but it's just a Quiex II version. The thing about Joni's albums is that none of them, except for Mingus, were engineered like audiophile records. For example, the first 3 seconds of the LP ("Chinese Cafe") has a wavering piano. If I understood Dave Blackburn correctly, it's intentional and was an added effect. It sounds like someone dragged a finger across a tape reel during playback; it sounds like a flaw to me. My point is that some engineers try to eliminate wavering sounds and some go for it. That's not something that you'd ordinarily hear on a specialty disc. Getting that last 10% just isn't something they were worried about so, in some ways, the garden variety versions are just fine for Joni's records. More examples: Old versions of Court and Spark seem (to me) to sound better than the ones made in this century. I think the tape has degraded, producing a shredding sound on "Car On the Hill". There's always been some shredding on that track but now it's worse. I bought many promo copies of "For The Roses" thinking there was a flaw in the records I bought. I still don't know where the distortion in "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" came from but I wasn't able to buy a solution for it. In the past I thought that getting better versions would bring me closer to the music but I don't think so now. I'm not chasing them anymore. Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2010 #168 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------