From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2010 #127 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, April 30 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 127 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan [Anita G ] Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan [Mags ] Safaris and The Arrangement [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Safaris and The Arrangement [Mags ] New article: Revolutionary Says Revolution Has Gone Too Far [TheStaff@Jon] funeral music njc [Robert Procyk ] Re: Safaris and The Arrangement [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: "The Beauty of a Soul" on cdbaby! NJC [waytoblue@comcast.net] RE: has anyone purchased this book? [Susan Tierney McNamara ] Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan [Catherine McKay ] Re: Safaris and The Arrangement [Robin Adler ] Re: has anyone purchased this book? [Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan Stephen Thomas' article starts: "There are few sadder sights in the world than that of the once mighty, now fallen. A few days ago news came across that Joni Mitchell ......." Funny, I hadn't noticed the 'once mighty' not the fall. Anita ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 06:49:09 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan I know practically nothing about Bob Dylan except that his voice grates on me and the utter sameness of his chord progressions doesn't lure me into the songs much. The lyrics seem more designed to tantalize with their obscurity than anything, and I have more than a sneaking suspicion he is often just stringing rhyming phrases together and leaving the fans to try and unveil a deeper meaning when there really isn't one. But this article by Stephen Thomas lays out a carefully documented series of cases in which Dylan really has been fraudulent and plagiaristic. Leave it to Joni to call it how she sees it, disregarding polite etiquette, as she now tends to do in her "golden years". At first I thought she might be embodying her own lyric " You snipe so steady, you snub so snide, so ripe and ready to diminish and deride," but it appears this may truly be a long held view of hers (and others it appears) about Dylan, instead of just a zinger to get back in the news, (which it certainly has achieved.) Dave On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:00 AM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 20:31:42 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com > Subject: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's > 'jibe' against Bob Dylan > > A new article has been added to the Library at JoniMitchell.com: > > Title: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against > Bob Dylan > Publication: ForFolksSake.com > Date: 2010.4.27 > > Read it here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2239 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:28:28 -0400 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Funeral music (NJC) Gene wrote: >Dave Carter/Tracy Grammar, "When I Go" And, in a really bizarre way, my favorite Dave song, Cowboy Singer: alone in my room when she leaves me again i stare at the wall and see death closin' in but i like to imagine i will meet her someday in a land at the end of this lonesome highway in a fine high country where the best songs are sung and the labels don't care if you're old or you're young and the martins are cheaper, and the pastures are greener and all of the angels are cowboy singers yes, and all of the angels are cowboy singers *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@ca.rr.com "Folk Alliance Region - West" www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:18:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan I am sure it's a long held view of Joni's. I wish my memory would conjure up when/where I heard that before. anyway, fwiw, Im not a huge Bob Dylan fan. As I mentioned before, he was on the same night at Joni in Toronto in 98. Chris and I stayed for his bit but we were both less than impressed. Joni is in a league of her own, imho. Mags - --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Dave Blackburn wrote: From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan To: joni@smoe.org Received: Thursday, April 29, 2010, 9:49 AM I know practically nothing about Bob Dylan except that his voice grates on me and the utter sameness of his chord progressions doesn't lure me into the songs much. The lyrics seem more designed to tantalize with their obscurity than anything, and I have more than a sneaking suspicion he is often just stringing rhyming phrases together and leaving the fans to try and unveil a deeper meaning when there really isn't one. But this article by Stephen Thomas lays out a carefully documented series of cases in which Dylan really has been fraudulent and plagiaristic. Leave it to Joni to call it how she sees it, disregarding polite etiquette, as she now tends to do in her "golden years". At first I thought she might be embodying her own lyric " You snipe so steady, you snub so snide, so ripe and ready to diminish and deride," but it appears this may truly be a long held view of hers (and others it appears) about Dylan, instead of just a zinger to get back in the news, (which it certainly has achieved.) Dave On Apr 29, 2010, at 12:00 AM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 20:31:42 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com > Subject: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan > > A new article has been added to the Library at JoniMitchell.com: > > Title: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan > Publication: ForFolksSake.com > Date: 2010.4.27 > > Read it here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2239 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:25:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Funeral music (NJC) beautiful lyrics there, Steve. I know about Dave and Tracy because of you...thanks for that as well. Here's a video of When I Go, courtesy of youtube . Gorgeous. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imf2GYV0xNo - --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Steve Dulson wrote: From: Steve Dulson Subject: Funeral music (NJC) To: joni@smoe.org Received: Thursday, April 29, 2010, 10:28 AM Gene wrote: >Dave Carter/Tracy Grammar, "When I Go" And, in a really bizarre way, my favorite Dave song, Cowboy Singer: alone in my room when she leaves me again i stare at the wall and see death closin' in but i like to imagine i will meet her someday in a land at the end of this lonesome highway in a fine high country where the best songs are sung and the labels don't care if you're old or you're young and the martins are cheaper, and the pastures are greener and all of the angels are cowboy singers yes, and all of the angels are cowboy singers *************************************************** Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA tinkersown@ca.rr.com "Folk Alliance Region - West" www.far-west.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:05:19 -0400 From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Safaris and The Arrangement Hi Joni-peeps, It's been so long since I wrote to the list, but I'm inspired to do so after listening to Robin & Dave and Mutts of the Planets this past week. I'm not generally a covers consumer, but OMLG ("oh my lady gaga" - that's right i roll with the hip kids) this CD is so beautifully and thoughtfully arranged and produced. Robin's voice is divine and steady - even live! I'm just blown away by her control and steadiness and a wee bit jealous. "Dreamland" is crazy good. I can only imagine what it was like to see that live. And I'm so glad Dave threw in the bonus tracks, because they are some of my favorites. I also really love Cherokee Louise, Passion Play, and Rainy Night House. Bravo! Standing ovation, etc. I hope I get to see you live some day. On another note, a little bird told me to check the digests for nice comments about my cover of "The Arrangement" - thank you Anita and Mark for your sweet sweet comments. I wanted to do a Joni tune that hadn't been covered before - and Bob's database made that VERY easy for me to research. What a great resource. If anyone wants a copy of my cover of The Arrangement, click the link below and you'll be able to click on that song to download it. http://www.reverbnation.com/tunepak/2614695 Jenny - ----------------------------------------------------- The Boxcar Lilies (my new trio) are about to record our debut CD! To hop on this train and pre-order a copy, visit http://www.boxcarlilies.com/music.html. We're trying to raise enough to record a full length CD! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:23:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Safaris and The Arrangement Jenny, I love your arrangement of the Arrangement...gorgeous, as is your entire CD. Love love it. love, Mags, another fan of yours darlin' xo - --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Jenny Goodspeed wrote: From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Safaris and The Arrangement To: "jmdl" Received: Thursday, April 29, 2010, 12:05 PM Hi Joni-peeps, It's been so long since I wrote to the list, but I'm inspired to do so after listening to Robin & Dave and Mutts of the Planets this past week. I'm not generally a covers consumer, but OMLG ("oh my lady gaga" - that's right i roll with the hip kids) this CD is so beautifully and thoughtfully arranged and produced. Robin's voice is divine and steady - even live! I'm just blown away by her control and steadiness and a wee bit jealous. "Dreamland" is crazy good. I can only imagine what it was like to see that live. And I'm so glad Dave threw in the bonus tracks, because they are some of my favorites. I also really love Cherokee Louise, Passion Play, and Rainy Night House. Bravo! Standing ovation, etc. I hope I get to see you live some day. On another note, a little bird told me to check the digests for nice comments about my cover of "The Arrangement" - thank you Anita and Mark for your sweet sweet comments. I wanted to do a Joni tune that hadn't been covered before - and Bob's database made that VERY easy for me to research. What a great resource. If anyone wants a copy of my cover of The Arrangement, click the link below and you'll be able to click on that song to download it. http://www.reverbnation.com/tunepak/2614695 Jenny - ----------------------------------------------------- The Boxcar Lilies (my new trio) are about to record our debut CD! To hop on this train and pre-order a copy, visit http://www.boxcarlilies.com/music.html. We're trying to raise enough to record a full length CD! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:04:14 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New article: Revolutionary Says Revolution Has Gone Too Far A new article has been added to the Library at JoniMitchell.com: Title: Revolutionary Says Revolution Has Gone Too Far Publication: Western Standard Date: 2010.4.29 Read it here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2241 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:55:02 -0600 From: Robert Procyk Subject: funeral music njc Ok Mark and Anita, that whole clock-stopping thing is too weird, because, I kid you not, when my mom died, it was 10:15... I went home an hour or so later, and was getting into bed, and glanced at my watch: it had stopped at 10:15. I took it off, threw it in a box in my closet, and to this day, it still says 10:15. (Poor Kate of the North has heard all my eerie stories a 1000 times already, so why not one more time on the list, hey?) Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:10:20 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Safaris and The Arrangement Thanks for that, Jenny - it's a labor of love to be sure, but it's a LOT of labor keeping up. Luckily Les has set it up so it's really user-friendly for me and other Joni fans. Volume 124 is right around the corner! And yes, being a witness to that take of "Dreamland" was....well, like a dream. Bob NP: Kaki King, "Sunnyside" (tremendous new one from her - didn't think she could top 'Dreaming of Revenge' but darned if she hasn't) - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:36:13 +0000 (UTC) From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: "The Beauty of a Soul" on cdbaby! NJC Thank you so much Mags. Looking forward to the cd release party on May 22 which will feature a guest saxophonist and guitarist. I'm also playing at The Leaf festival next weekend, held outside of Asheville, NC in gorgeous Black Mountain. http://TheLeaf.org Victor - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mags" To: joni@smoe.org, waytoblue@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:06:14 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: "The Beauty of a Soul" on cdbaby! NJC congratulations to you Victor, what wonderful news, and lovely music, an expression of a loving and tender soul. love, Mags ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:42:07 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: has anyone purchased this book? Oh boy, for a second I thought it was the long awaited compleat Joni songbook (promised from Joel Bernstein). I think I'll wait for the review since I'm down on my luck. :-) Currently trying to decipher the end of the chorus on Trouble Child (you know, crashing Malibu waves and all). How can you theoretically describe that in a book? ___________________ /___________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue Tierney || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell NP: A Most Extraordinary Man - Cahill & Delene - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:01:04 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: has anyone purchased this book? Interesting. I wonder if it's similar to the Lloyd Whitesell book which was kind of a slog, even for a music instructor such as myself. All the analysis in the world, however, doesn't really explain the magic of the synergy between words and music, and the style and cultural zeitgeist that a great artist has flowing through their pen. ie you can learn the chords, annotate all the lyric references, point out the interval contour of the melody and say that a groove is based on an african tradition without actually cracking the nut of what makes great art great. I'll still probably get it though. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:52:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: funeral music njc Just chiming in to say, I love the eerie stories. If I think of one of my own (that's related anyway), I'll be sure to mention it. ________________________________ From: Robert Procyk To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Thu, April 29, 2010 12:55:02 PM Subject: funeral music njc Ok Mark and Anita, that whole clock-stopping thing is too weird, because, I kid you not, when my mom died, it was 10:15... I went home an hour or so later, and was getting into bed, and glanced at my watch: it had stopped at 10:15. I took it off, threw it in a box in my closet, and to this day, it still says 10:15. (Poor Kate of the North has heard all my eerie stories a 1000 times already, so why not one more time on the list, hey?) Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:13:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan So, I wonder why the Dylan fans rarely seem to get Joni, and possibly vice versa though it seems to me (anecdotally, not scientifically) that more Joni fans also like Dylan than the other way around. Since this is the Joni Mitchell discussion list, I guess we won't get a good answer to that question. Is Dylan a "macho" writer? Is Joni too "girly" for the average Dylan fan? What is the average Dylan fan? (For that matter, what is the average Joni fan?) Definitely, at least to these ears, Joni's lyrics and music are much more complex than Dylan's. I have to say, I agree with Dave about Dylan's lyrics for the most part. Whereas Joni can use some obscure references, they generally seem to be based on something most of us - at least, those of us from a western culture with a judeo-christian kind of background - would be at least a bit familiar with (Shakespearean or biblical references, for example), whereas a lot of Dylan's stuff (to me, anyway, but what do I know?) sounds like it might have been born of an overuse of drugs, or yeah, just because the words rhyme. I have to say, I really like "Sad-eyed lady of the lowlands," but to me, it's a bunch of images that wash over me that don't necessarily mean much (although they *could*.) And then again, in either case, we can't underestimate the personal-ness of songs, both from the point of view of the writer and the listener. ________________________________ From: Mags To: joni@smoe.org; Dave Blackburn Sent: Thu, April 29, 2010 11:18:53 AM Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan I am sure it's a long held view of Joni's. I wish my memory would conjure up when/where I heard that before. anyway, fwiw, Im not a huge Bob Dylan fan. As I mentioned before, he was on the same night at Joni in Toronto in 98. Chris and I stayed for his bit but we were both less than impressed. Joni is in a league of her own, imho. Mags - --- On Thu, 4/29/10, Dave Blackburn wrote: From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan To: joni@smoe.org Received: Thursday, April 29, 2010, 9:49 AM I know practically nothing about Bob Dylan except that his voice grates on me and the utter sameness of his chord progressions doesn't lure me into the songs much. The lyrics seem more designed to tantalize with their obscurity than anything, and I have more than a sneaking suspicion he is often just stringing rhyming phrases together and leaving the fans to try and unveil a deeper meaning when there really isn't one. But this article by Stephen Thomas lays out a carefully documented series of cases in which Dylan really has been fraudulent and plagiaristic. Leave it to Joni to call it how she sees it, disregarding polite etiquette, as she now tends to do in her "golden years". At first I thought she might be embodying her own lyric " You snipe so steady, you snub so snide, so ripe and ready to diminish and deride," but it appears this may truly be a long held view of hers (and others it appears) about Dylan, instead of just a zinger to get back in the news, (which it certainly has achieved.) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:19:42 -0700 From: Russell Bowden Subject: Funeral music Refuge of the Road Sotto voce _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:17:53 -0700 From: Robin Adler Subject: Re: Safaris and The Arrangement Hi Jenny, Thank you for your kind words......but what a beautiful singer you are and thank you for directing us to the link of your version of The Arrangement. I really enjoyed your originals too. Music is so fun eh? My best to you, Robin On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > Hi Joni-peeps, > > It's been so long since I wrote to the list, but I'm inspired to do > so after > listening to Robin & Dave and Mutts of the Planets this past week. > > I'm not generally a covers consumer, but OMLG ("oh my lady gaga" - > that's > right i roll with the hip kids) this CD is so beautifully and > thoughtfully > arranged and produced. Robin's voice is divine and steady - even > live! I'm > just blown away by her control and steadiness and a wee bit jealous. > > "Dreamland" is crazy good. I can only imagine what it was like to > see that > live. And I'm so glad Dave threw in the bonus tracks, because they > are some > of my favorites. I also really love Cherokee Louise, Passion Play, > and > Rainy Night House. Bravo! Standing ovation, etc. I hope I get to > see you > live some day. > > On another note, a little bird told me to check the digests for nice > comments about my cover of "The Arrangement" - thank you Anita and > Mark for > your sweet sweet comments. I wanted to do a Joni tune that hadn't > been > covered before - and Bob's database made that VERY easy for me to > research. > What a great resource. > > If anyone wants a copy of my cover of The Arrangement, click the > link below > and you'll be able to click on that song to download it. > > http://www.reverbnation.com/tunepak/2614695 > > Jenny > > ----------------------------------------------------- > The Boxcar Lilies (my new trio) are about to record our debut CD! > To hop on > this train and pre-order a copy, visit > http://www.boxcarlilies.com/music.html. We're trying to raise enough > to > record a full length CD! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:49:45 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: has anyone purchased this book? Sue, If your talking about those pretty guitar harmonics over "Malibu" they are : A major pentatonic (right hand) harmonics, then G major pentatonic (right hand) harmonics, both over a G pedal bass note. Dave On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: > Currently trying to decipher the end of the chorus on Trouble Child > (you know, crashing Malibu waves and all). How can you > theoretically describe that in a book? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:53:29 -0400 From: Susan Tierney McNamara Subject: RE: has anyone purchased this book? Yeah, what he said. Dave, can you do an instructional video of that right now and youtube it to me? You know I don't speak Blackburn. :-) - -----Original Message----- From: Dave Blackburn [mailto:beatntrack@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:50 PM To: Susan Tierney McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: has anyone purchased this book? Sue, If your talking about those pretty guitar harmonics over "Malibu" they are : A major pentatonic (right hand) harmonics, then G major pentatonic (right hand) harmonics, both over a G pedal bass note. Dave On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Susan Tierney McNamara wrote: > Currently trying to decipher the end of the chorus on Trouble Child > (you know, crashing Malibu waves and all). How can you > theoretically describe that in a book? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:15:26 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Blackburn" Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 6:49 AM To: Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan > I know practically nothing about Bob Dylan except that his voice grates > on me and the utter sameness of his chord progressions doesn't lure me > into the songs much. The lyrics seem more designed to tantalize with > their obscurity than anything, and I have more than a sneaking suspicion > he is often just stringing rhyming phrases together and leaving the fans > to try and unveil a deeper meaning when there really isn't one. I have had this suspicion as well, Dave. I never owned much of Dylan's work until a few years ago when I bought a '3-pack' at Costco that included, if I remember right, 'Blonde on Blonde', 'Highway 61 Revisited' and I can't remember for sure what the other one was. I was intrigued enough to get some of his other stuff. I could see how he had acquired some of his status. It is hard to tell sometimes if a lyric is a genuine expression of somebody's interior monologue or, as you said, stringing words together that sound good. And, although I'm no musician, I don't think Dylan has ever come near Joni musically. There are some of his early songs and a few of his more lucid later work that I like. 'If You See Her, Say Hello' really gets to me, for example. But I like hearing his early stuff sung by people like Peter, Paul and Mary, or Joan Baez ('Any Day Now' was a 2 vinyl record set of Joan doing all early Dylan songs and it's gorgeous, imo) or Judy Collins. I also like Joni's version of 'It's All Over Now, Baby Blue' that appeared as an extra track on one of the Geffen box set cds. But Bobby D's voice is an acquired taste. And I, for one, have never quite acquired that particular taste. But this article by Stephen Thomas lays out a > carefully documented series of cases in which Dylan really has been > fraudulent and plagiaristic. Leave it to Joni to call it how she sees it, > disregarding polite etiquette, as she now tends to do in her "golden > years". At first I thought she might be embodying her own lyric " You > snipe so steady, you snub so snide, so ripe and ready to diminish and > deride," but it appears this may truly be a long held view of hers (and > others it appears) about Dylan, instead of just a zinger to get back in > the news, (which it certainly has achieved.) > > Dave I really can't see Joni spewing out zingers just for the sake of publicity and I have to wonder what the reaction would have been if the roles had been reversed. If Dylan had made disparaging remarks about Joni, would there have been the same brouhaha? Does gender have anything to do with it? Joni has been compared to Dylan and referred to as the greatest *female* songwriter for so long. She must be good and sick of it by now and frankly, my dear (lame attempt at humor), I don't blame her. (But I do give a damn.) Mark Butler in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 19:54:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan I really can't see Joni spewing out zingers just for the sake of publicity and I have to wonder what the reaction would have been if the roles had been reversed. If Dylan had made disparaging remarks about Joni, would there have been the same brouhaha? Does gender have anything to do with it? Joni has been compared to Dylan and referred to as the greatest *female* songwriter for so long. She must be good and sick of it by now and frankly, my dear (lame attempt at humor), I don't blame her. (But I do give a damn.) Mark Butler in Seattle darling Rhett, I couldnt agree more, I cannot imagine Joni spewing zingers toward his Bobness just because...fill in the blank. She has said many times that she is so damned sick of being slotted into the square peg of 'folkie'.. Good question, what would the fallout be (if any) had Dylan said that of Joni? love, Scarlett of the western prairies ;P xo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:43:21 -0400 From: Stephen_Epstein@hugoboss.com Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan well, i am a fan of Dylan.. i never liked him when i was younger, but when i was 12 or 13 and @ my cousins house in new rochelle, ny, my older cousin "escaped" from the hospital or group home he was in for troubled kids- could've been Bellevue, and he stormed into the house, pouring rain outside- i almost didn't recognise him, he was so f-cked up- he ran into his former bedroom, flushed all his pills of lsd down the toilet, and started to play early Bob at a huge volume. ever since then, i found a liking and affinity to early Bob- but you really have to crank it up. This was a time that was ripe for someone like him to come along- absolutely a plagiarist, a mixer of things past with his take on it. All the folk artists back then did the same. I recently read his volume 1 autobiography, and thought it fabulous. he is a poet and writer, so why shouldn't the book be fab? i think he is brilliant, and lots of his recent recordings have not been on the radar. the man continues to write, record and travel in concert- nothing to prove anymore, and still giving back. joni has always struck me in a place that no one else has, not dylan or anyone else. i think the comarrisons are futile! best Stehen in Toronto NP: Chrissi Poland: Alone with my Troubles - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Blackburn" Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 6:49 AM To: Subject: Re: New article: Folked Up: Stephen Thomas on Joni Mitchell's 'jibe' against Bob Dylan > I know practically nothing about Bob Dylan except that his voice grates > on me and the utter sameness of his chord progressions doesn't lure me > into the songs much. The lyrics seem more designed to tantalize with > their obscurity than anything, and I have more than a sneaking suspicion > he is often just stringing rhyming phrases together and leaving the fans > to try and unveil a deeper meaning when there really isn't one. I have had this suspicion as well, Dave. I never owned much of Dylan's work until a few years ago when I bought a '3-pack' at Costco that included, if I remember right, 'Blonde on Blonde', 'Highway 61 Revisited' and I can't remember for sure what the other one was. I was intrigued enough to get some of his other stuff. I could see how he had acquired some of his status. It is hard to tell sometimes if a lyric is a genuine expression of somebody's interior monologue or, as you said, stringing words together that sound good. And, although I'm no musician, I don't think Dylan has ever come near Joni musically. There are some of his early songs and a few of his more lucid later work that I like. 'If You See Her, Say Hello' really gets to me, for example. But I like hearing his early stuff sung by people like Peter, Paul and Mary, or Joan Baez ('Any Day Now' was a 2 vinyl record set of Joan doing all early Dylan songs and it's gorgeous, imo) or Judy Collins. I also like Joni's version of 'It's All Over Now, Baby Blue' that appeared as an extra track on one of the Geffen box set cds. But Bobby D's voice is an acquired taste. And I, for one, have never quite acquired that particular taste. But this article by Stephen Thomas lays out a > carefully documented series of cases in which Dylan really has been > fraudulent and plagiaristic. Leave it to Joni to call it how she sees it, > disregarding polite etiquette, as she now tends to do in her "golden > years". At first I thought she might be embodying her own lyric " You > snipe so steady, you snub so snide, so ripe and ready to diminish and > deride," but it appears this may truly be a long held view of hers (and > others it appears) about Dylan, instead of just a zinger to get back in > the news, (which it certainly has achieved.) > > Dave I really can't see Joni spewing out zingers just for the sake of publicity and I have to wonder what the reaction would have been if the roles had been reversed. If Dylan had made disparaging remarks about Joni, would there have been the same brouhaha? Does gender have anything to do with it? Joni has been compared to Dylan and referred to as the greatest *female* songwriter for so long. She must be good and sick of it by now and frankly, my dear (lame attempt at humor), I don't blame her. (But I do give a damn.) Mark Butler in Seattle This e-mail (and/or attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. 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