From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2010 #119 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, April 23 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 119 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: A letter from Sheila Weller [Lieve Reckers ] RE: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?NJC_susanne_sundf=F8r?= [Oddmund Kaarevik ] Re: John Kelly performing Paved Paradise: The Art of Joni Mitchell [Dave ] Re: John Kelly performing Paved Paradise: The Art of Joni Mitchell [Bob.] Re: John Kelly performing Paved Paradise: The Art of Joni Mitchell [Dave] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [] NJC one more treat [Oddmund Kaarevik ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [Corey Blake ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [rflynn@frontiernet.net] LA Times Article [lmontelione@netscape.net] RE: Joni disses Bob. What the...? ["Les Irvin" ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: NJC one more treat [Mags ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? NJC [Corey Blake ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [Michael Flaherty ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [Happy The Man ] Re: JMDL Digest V2010 #118 [Leah Welborn ] What the....? Episode 2 ["Les Irvin" ] don't confront me with my failures NJC [Mags ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [Mags ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? ["Mark" ] Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? [revrvl@gmail.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:46:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller Hi Terra! As you know, I have aways been a fan of Girls Like Us, precisely for some of the reasons you mention: the depth of research, the good writing and the social/historical/musical context the writer provides. About the Jackson Browne and the whole suicide discussion, I just want to add a few thoughts. First of all, it may sound odd, but to me the "great breaking news" of the book, i.e. the suicide attempt, is really not that important. I must clarify: to anybody attempting suicide, to be so heartbroken, is enormously important. But to me as a reader, I feel I can never know really what happened, except that Joni and Jackson were in a relationship that ended on a sour note for Joni. I just feel we can never really know what goes on between two people, especially in circumstances like these: 2 artists, 2 egos, so many conflicting emotions... Haven't we all been so besotted by someone that we felt the world blew up when it ended? Mightn't we all have caused the same to someone else, even unintentionally or unknowingly? I can well imagine that at some point Jackson treated Joni less then perfectly, that she was terribly hurt, that he would regret it with hindsight, etc. I see no reason to hate or dislike him on such flimsy or subjective evidence. Besides, I think the book mentions briefly that they kind of "made it up" many years later. Same with the Daryl Hannah case. With no evidence, I am not going to condemn. One other thought, and I hope I can express it the way it is intended. I don't think we should condemn Jackson for possibly having rejected or jilted Joni, just because we "are Joni fans" and feel we identify with her. It may have felt terribly painful to her at the time, he may have done it in an insensitive way, but surely we should not look at him as if he robbed her of her one big love? Surely Joni has done her own fair share of dropping and rejecting? I know she has managed to stay friends with many ex lovers, which is of course the way to go, but nobody is going to tell me that she hasn't broken any hearts! Just because they can't write and sing about it so beautifully, does not make it that less painful. Heartache is a terrible thing, and I speak from experience. I look back at the many times that I have thought my life was not worth living any more (even though I did not try to end it), but I would not want my friends to hate the guys who were responsible. And I know I have caused more hurt than I ever wanted, too. The best you can hope is that both parties can look back on it and still see the good they shared, and know they have learnt and grown from the experience. (Just to make sure: I am not talking here about really abusive relationships, where one side treats the other in a criminal, cruel way. I am just talking about the very complex and messy side of relationships where love, attraction, commitment etc can vary and be mismatched, causing untold pain, regret and guilt.) Ah well, just trying to put things into perspective. All the best, Lieve - --------------- Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 05:03:39 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: A letter from Sheila Weller I was so busy all day and came late to all these responses. I've been trying to answer each one separately, but the way gmail "chains" everything together, and with several of the posts "quoting" others, I'm dizzy trying to figure it all out! So I hope I've addressed this to everyone quoted herein. First, a belated welcome to Leah (and all others new to the list). I'm the one who worked with Sheila and posted her letter. Not to worry--I've been on the list for about three years (I think--ha!), and still only recognize those who post most often. (And to Rian--can't believe you haven't posted for a year?!? Seems much shorter than that.) Anyway, I've had discussions on and off-list about this whole issue, so if some of you see me repeating the same arguments, feel free to skim. :-P Unlike, apparently, just about everyone here, I love most of Jackson Browne's work, and *in some respects* (not *all*), it means just as much to me as Joni's. (Carole and Carly's music influenced me a lot, too, but in a somewhat different way.) This is not to say that I think Jackson has had as profound an effect as an artist as Joni has (whether or not the world ever catches up to her), but then who, other than maybe Elvis, the Beatles, and Dylan, has? To put it in context, among the other singer-songwriters I was listening to at the time-- James Taylor, J.D. Souther (via Linda Ronstadt), Karla Bonoff, Crosby Stills & Nash, Cat Stevens, Simon & Garfunkel, Shawn Phillips, etc, etc.--only Neil Young's stuff affected me as emotionally as Jackson's. (And tho I too loved JB's looks, it was the taller, more East- Coast-intellectual-seeming JT who was my archetype for many boyfriends to come. My real-life JT-type boyfriend in college, who was a gifted artist and guitar player/singer, now has the same receding hairline.) (My vain darling . . . ) :-D I also liked that Jackson was one of the originators and guiding forces in the "No Nukes" concerts/album/film, and when he released a couple of overtly political albums in the 80s and took some flak---much of it from fans---for it, he stuck to his guns. He continues to be involved in countless benefits and other work for human rights organizations, and to write about social concerns. So all that said, when the Daryl Hannah story broke I was skeptical and inclined to give JB the benefit of the doubt. Nothing I've read over the years has given me cause to think otherwise, tho I'd be open to new information. As to Joni's allegations that he hit her at the Roxy, I've only read the account in *Girls Like Us*---I don't know if it's been reported elsewhere---and it's vague enough that I'm just not convinced of the story. I guess I've just seen too many instances in my life of people who were involved in the same event describing it differently---what's that old story about the blind men and the elephant?? More interesting to me is the stuff that happened around "Not To Blame." I was in a kind of personal media blackout at the time and missed the controversy, and when I heard the song it never occurred to me that it might be about JB and his first wife's tragic suicide. (Nor did I make that connection with the lines in "Song to Sharon" until I worked on Sheila's manuscript.) I've done only a cursory search and haven't yet found a recording or transcript of JB's radio interview from 1994, referred to in both *Girls* and Karen O'Brien's excellent Joni bio,* Shadows and Light*. (If I bug Sheila enough times, maybe I'll get her to dig it up for me out of her voluminous files. Ha!) ---So anyway, I'm kind of stubborn like Mark, only on the other side of this one! I think the bathtub analogy is brilliant, Leah, and this from a fellow traveler. ;-) Tho there are certain patterns and likenesses, one person's experience of depression is different from every other's, and there's no such thing as ever truly getting inside another person's head---"We all come and go unknown . . ." indeed. I'm just very happy and excited that people continue to discover all this music, and that a book I am extremely proud to have worked on (not to mention the rare gift of getting to converse with an author I much admire), has helped to spark some fresh discussion. Tho the focus here, of course, is on Joni, I'm also very glad to know that some are finding Carole and Carly's stories equally fascinating, as do I. I'm also happy to hear that some are reading the book straight thru rather than just the Joni sections, because I think Sheila did an incredible job of weaving together their lives *and* the larger history of the times, and one simply won't get the full flavor of it all by skipping thru. Finally (god I'm tired!), I'm *extremely* happy that Mark and (I hope) others are now more inclined to read the book, whether or not you end up enjoying it. And I'll repeat, if anyone has any questions for Sheila, I would urge you to ask her directly at either her website or her *Girls Like Us* Facebook page. She genuinely loves the music of all these women, and set out to tell their stories as factually and objectively as possible. Terra ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:56:59 +1200 From: Subject: RE: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Les wrote: > In the new LATimes interview: > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2235 > > LAT: The folk scene you came out of had fun creating personas. > You were born Roberta Joan Anderson, and someone named Bobby Zimmerman > became Bob Dylan. > > JM: Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice > are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night > and day, he and I. > > Weird. Joni usually speaks highly of Mr Dylan. Classic example of being > taken out of context (way, way out of context.) or is Joni becoming the old > lady hitting people with the cane like she predicted she would be? I don't think this is so far-fetched, but is probably out of context, as you say. Joni's "real" name is Joni Mitchell - Joni is obviously what she prefers to be called (can't say I blame her!) and Mitchell was a legitimate way of keeping a little anonymity. Bob Dylan quite obviously took his surname from Dylan Thomas (or did I just make that up?!) and hearing him sing certain songs (Lay, Lady Lay for example) indicates that his voice is "fake" in some respects. I think the quote above was probably said by Joni with tongue planted firmly in cheek, but that doesn't translate well in the written word. Not sure about the plagiarist comment, but again, without actually hearing the entire interview, it's hard to put it into context. Then again, you could be right, and Joni has turned into a bitter, old curmudgeon! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:39:01 +0200 From: Oddmund Kaarevik Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?NJC_susanne_sundf=F8r?= It's nordic it's kinda bleak but it's brilliant and beautful. when susane sundfxr made her album "the brothel" she was imagining she made a sountrack for a movie my god what a talented young woman she is! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgAMh7s-q_k here is another treat peter gabriel and wonderful ane brun doing "don't give up" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaSKNzG2XyY love oddmund ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 06:02:23 -0400 From: Robbi Kearns Subject: John Kelly performing Paved Paradise: The Art of Joni Mitchell Hi All - I'm sure you will all read the article in today's LA Time which starts out: "People used to say nobody can sing my songs but me  they're too personal," Joni Mitchell explained last week during a rare interview. Apparently, nobody told John Kelly not to try adapting her songs. You can see John performing "Paved Paradise: The Art of Joni Mitchell" at The Renberg Theatre in Los Angeles through Sunday April 25th. http://purchase.tickets.com/buy/TicketPurchase?orgid=22109&venue_id=205639|20 5640|215071&schedule=list John will also be performing at the Fusebox Festival in Austin, TX from April 30-May 2nd. http://www.fuseboxfestival.com/artists/john-kelly Best, Robbi On Apr 22, 2010, at 2:14 AM, Les Irvin wrote: > In the new LATimes interview: > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2235 > > > > LAT: The folk scene you came out of had fun creating personas. You were born > Roberta Joan Anderson, and someone named Bobby Zimmerman became Bob Dylan. > > JM: Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice > are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he > and I. > > > > Weird. Joni usually speaks highly of Mr Dylan. Classic example of being > taken out of context (way, way out of context.) or is Joni becoming the old > lady hitting people with the cane like she predicted she would be? > > > > Go figure, > > Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 04:33:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_NJC_susanne_sundf=F8r?= Beautiful music, Oddmund. If it weren't for people like you, I'm sure most of us would never be exposed to this at all. ________________________________ From: Oddmund Kaarevik To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 5:39:01 AM Subject: NJC susanne sundfxr It's nordic it's kinda bleak but it's brilliant and beautful. when susane sundfxr made her album "the brothel" she was imagining she made a sountrack for a movie my god what a talented young woman she is! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgAMh7s-q_k here is another treat peter gabriel and wonderful ane brun doing "don't give up" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaSKNzG2XyY love oddmund ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 04:44:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Yeah, Joni Mitchell is hardly a dreamt-up name. Her name is Joan and she married a guy named Mitchell and she kept the name because it was around that time she started becoming more well-known. I also thought Dylan took his name from Dylan Thomas. I'm sure I've read that somewhere (not that that necessarily makes it true.) And Bob is his real name too. Oh, you can call me Bobby or you can call me Zimmy... I don't know what she means by calling him a plagiarist. Them could be fightin' words, but it could just as well be an inside joke. You'd have to hear it, rather than read it. It seems to me that Joni and Bob have had this kind of "feud" going on for a while - at least, she seems to with him. She talks about him falling asleep while listening to one of her albums; he wrote an extra verse for BYT (hey! an acronym!); she sang that extra verse in a Dylan voice. She has also expressed great admiration for him from the very early days. I do think that Joan is curmudgeonly and has been for quite a while. I think it's a function of what happens as you get older. She does seem very opinionated about a lot of things. But she still retains her sense of humour, which doesn't necessarily translate into the written word. As far as being "fake" is concerned, I think that any artist worth their salt probably has a number of different personas they put on. Sometimes that includes the voice. Tom Waits is a great example of that. If you listen to early Tom vs later Tom, there's a huge difference. Sometimes the person can become the persona. In that case, who is the "real" person? ________________________________ From: "hell@farmside.co.nz" To: Les Irvin ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 4:56:59 AM Subject: RE: Joni disses Bob. What the...? I don't think this is so far-fetched, but is probably out of context, as you say. Joni's "real" name is Joni Mitchell - Joni is obviously what she prefers to be called (can't say I blame her!) and Mitchell was a legitimate way of keeping a little anonymity. Bob Dylan quite obviously took his surname from Dylan Thomas (or did I just make that up?!) and hearing him sing certain songs (Lay, Lady Lay for example) indicates that his voice is "fake" in some respects. I think the quote above was probably said by Joni with tongue planted firmly in cheek, but that doesn't translate well in the written word. Not sure about the plagiarist comment, but again, without actually hearing the entire interview, it's hard to put it into context. Then again, you could be right, and Joni has turned into a bitter, old curmudgeon! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 05:14:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? I have to say, this cracks me up. Maybe she and Bob could have a laugh about it, together. Like Bob might find that pretty funny. But yeah, she's real crotchety, eh? But hey, folk music plagiarizes freely. Its not just Bob. There's a tradition in folk music of taking snippets of songs and shuffling them around in your own song. Kinda like Joni did in "Silky Veils". I just hope she has lots of happy and peaceful moments and isn't grouchy at her own self, when she's alone. Maybe she only bristles up like a porcupine when feeling threatened by having to be "on". "On" meaning having to be Joni Mitchell, the public persona, rather than Joni the lady who lives happily up on the hill with cats and paintings and whatever all else. Just some thoughts. Em - --- On Thu, 4/22/10, Les Irvin wrote: From: Les Irvin Subject: Joni disses Bob. What the...? To: joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 2:14 AM In the new LATimes interview: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2235 LAT: The folk scene you came out of had fun creating personas. You were born Roberta Joan Anderson, and someone named Bobby Zimmerman became Bob Dylan. JM: Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I. Weird. Joni usually speaks highly of Mr Dylan. Classic example of being taken out of context (way, way out of context.) or is Joni becoming the old lady hitting people with the cane like she predicted she would be? Go figure, Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 06:48:38 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: John Kelly performing Paved Paradise: The Art of Joni Mitchell Darn, I wish I'd known that too, before spending five years in a band that does nothing but JM's music. ;-) On the "Joni now being crotchety" thread, I'd say that sounds about right. The fact that she takes no interest in her own official website has always struck me as either seriously Luddite or "I don't really give a ....". As someone who embraced the Roland VG8 and had Roland develop a special amp for her (the Jazz Chorus), she certainly wasn't always a Luddite, but the latter seems quite possible. A bit like my own mother actually, who lives only for her cats and thinks the world has gone to hell in a handbasket (which may be true enough, actually !!!) Oh no, now I'm doing it.... Dave On Apr 22, 2010, at 3:02 AM, Robbi Kearns wrote: > Hi All - > > I'm sure you will all read the article in today's LA Time which > starts out: > "People used to say nobody can sing my songs but me  they're too > personal," > Joni Mitchell explained last week during a rare interview. > Apparently, nobody > told John Kelly not to try adapting her songs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:15:04 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: John Kelly performing Paved Paradise: The Art of Joni Mitchell Not to worry Dave - you and your Mutts do just fine (understatement of the year). I think Joni just has a hate/hate relationship with the press. She becomes instantly defensive and her responses reflect that. It's a shame because she denies herself a lot of joy it seems to me. Bob NP: The Replacements, "Merry Go Roundd" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 07:24:12 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: John Kelly performing Paved Paradise: The Art of Joni Mitchell Yes, Bob, but she also hates it when the press ignores her or glorifies some other artist that she feels superior to. She can't live with 'em and she can't live without 'em. On Apr 22, 2010, at 7:15 AM, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > > Not to worry Dave - you and your Mutts do just fine (understatement > of the year). > > I think Joni just has a hate/hate relationship with the press. She > becomes instantly defensive and her responses reflect that. It's a > shame because she denies herself a lot of joy it seems to me. > > Bob > > NP: The Replacements, "Merry Go Roundd" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:46:33 +0000 (UTC) From: Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Several years ago my mother told me, when she was living in New Jersey, back in the day, a friend's boyfriend had written a song that he showed to Bob Dylan who then recorded and published it as his own. This song was Blowing in the Wind. This doesn't take away from the brilliance of his work...but I believe the veracity of the story. And yes, a lot of borrowing goes on in the folk tradition but that seems to cross the line. Maybe there is something to what she's saying. Victor Sent from Comcast mobile - -----Original Message----- From: Les Irvin To: joni Sent: 2010-04-22 02:17:29 -0400 Subject: Joni disses Bob. What the...? In the new LATimes interview: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2235 LAT: The folk scene you came out of had fun creating personas. You were born Roberta Joan Anderson, and someone named Bobby Zimmerman became Bob Dylan. JM: Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I. Weird. Joni usually speaks highly of Mr Dylan. Classic example of being taken out of context (way, way out of context.) or is Joni becoming the old lady hitting people with the cane like she predicted she would be? Go figure, Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:49:47 +0200 From: Oddmund Kaarevik Subject: NJC one more treat she is so lovely solveig slettahjell she sang her heart out at this concert moved me deeply! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZgf6vrGt84 love oddmund ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:31:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? I'd personally like to see the two of them in a boxing ring. - -M ________________________________ From: Em To: joni@smoe.org; Les Irvin Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 8:14:05 AM Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? I have to say, this cracks me up. Maybe she and Bob could have a laugh about it, together. Like Bob might find that pretty funny. But yeah, she's real crotchety, eh? But hey, folk music plagiarizes freely. Its not just Bob. There's a tradition in folk music of taking snippets of songs and shuffling them around in your own song. Kinda like Joni did in "Silky Veils". I just hope she has lots of happy and peaceful moments and isn't grouchy at her own self, when she's alone. Maybe she only bristles up like a porcupine when feeling threatened by having to be "on". "On" meaning having to be Joni Mitchell, the public persona, rather than Joni the lady who lives happily up on the hill with cats and paintings and whatever all else. Just some thoughts. Em - --- On Thu, 4/22/10, Les Irvin wrote: From: Les Irvin Subject: Joni disses Bob. What the...? To: joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 2:14 AM In the new LATimes interview: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2235 LAT: The folk scene you came out of had fun creating personas. You were born Roberta Joan Anderson, and someone named Bobby Zimmerman became Bob Dylan. JM: Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I. Weird. Joni usually speaks highly of Mr Dylan. Classic example of being taken out of context (way, way out of context.) or is Joni becoming the old lady hitting people with the cane like she predicted she would be? Go figure, Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:36:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? We all know that Joni feels unappreciated and under-rated (I happen to agree that she is), and obviously Bob Dylan has neither of those problems, so perhaps she's feeling some anger and letting a bit of it out. Michael F. P.S. Not necessarily saying that Dylan is OVER-rated, or OVER-appreciated, only that he certainly gets his due. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:45:23 -0700 From: Corey Blake Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Hi Victor, I assume the friend's boyfriend is Lorre Wyatt? Turns out his claim of plagiarism wasn't true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowin'_in_the_Wind#False_allegation_of_plagiarism - -Corey On Apr 22, 2010, at 7:46 AM, wrote: > Several years ago my mother told me, when she was living in New > Jersey, back in the day, a friend's boyfriend had written a song > that he showed to Bob Dylan who then recorded and published it as > his own. This song was Blowing in the Wind. > > This doesn't take away from the brilliance of his work...but I > believe the veracity of the story. And yes, a lot of borrowing goes > on in the folk tradition but that seems to cross the line. Maybe > there is something to what she's saying. > > Victor > > Sent from Comcast mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Les Irvin > To: joni > Sent: 2010-04-22 02:17:29 -0400 > Subject: Joni disses Bob. What the...? > > In the new LATimes interview: > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2235 > > > > LAT: The folk scene you came out of had fun creating personas. You > were born > Roberta Joan Anderson, and someone named Bobby Zimmerman became Bob > Dylan. > > JM: Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and > voice > are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and > day, he > and I. > > > > Weird. Joni usually speaks highly of Mr Dylan. Classic example of > being > taken out of context (way, way out of context.) or is Joni becoming > the old > lady hitting people with the cane like she predicted she would be? > > > > Go figure, > > Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:49:15 +0000 (UTC) From: rflynn@frontiernet.net Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Read the wikipedia entry for the source of "Blowin' in the Wind" including the false allegation of plagiarism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowin'_in_the_Wind Dylan appropriates a lot. I think Jonathan Lethem's article in Harpers is good on the subject: http://harpers.org/archive/2007/02/0081387 - ----- Original Message ----- From: waytoblue@comcast.net To: "Les" , "joni" Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:46:33 AM Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Several years ago my mother told me, when she was living in New Jersey, back in the day, a friend's boyfriend had written a song that he showed to Bob Dylan who then recorded and published it as his own. This song was Blowing in the Wind. This doesn't take away from the brilliance of his work...but I believe the veracity of the story. And yes, a lot of borrowing goes on in the folk tradition but that seems to cross the line. Maybe there is something to what she's saying. Victor Sent from Comcast mobile - -----Original Message----- From: Les Irvin To: joni Sent: 2010-04-22 02:17:29 -0400 Subject: Joni disses Bob. What the...? In the new LATimes interview: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2235 LAT: The folk scene you came out of had fun creating personas. You were born Roberta Joan Anderson, and someone named Bobby Zimmerman became Bob Dylan. JM: Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I. Weird. Joni usually speaks highly of Mr Dylan. Classic example of being taken out of context (way, way out of context.) or is Joni becoming the old lady hitting people with the cane like she predicted she would be? Go figure, Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:52:28 -0400 From: lmontelione@netscape.net Subject: LA Times Article I'm happy to read that Joni says she feels better now than she has for months. She mentioned that she was out recently for the first time since December 23rd, and wants to devote time to bringing credibility to Morgellons sufferers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:18:35 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Joni disses Bob. What the...? One thing for certain, Joni's comments on Dylan are not going to win her any new fans. Can anyone translate this one for the Library? http://www.plasticosydecibelios.es/joni-mitchell-ataca-piedad-bob-dylan/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:16:23 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? When they toured together in '98, you would have thought it was a boxing ring amongst their fans. I attended the Atlanta concert and Joni was on first. Some of Dylan's fans were restless, noisy, and rude while Joni performed......at least from what I witnessed. Jimmy In a message dated 4/22/2010 11:46:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, motitan75@yahoo.com writes: > I'd personally like to see the two of them in a boxing ring ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 09:36:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: NJC one more treat dear Odd, a gorgeous, tender song, thanks so much for sharing it with us. Tell me more about her love, Mags - --- On Thu, 4/22/10, Oddmund Kaarevik wrote: From: Oddmund Kaarevik Subject: NJC one more treat To: joni@smoe.org Received: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 10:49 AM she is so lovely solveig slettahjell she sang her heart out at this concert moved me deeply! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZgf6vrGt84 love oddmund ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:51:21 +0000 (UTC) From: Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Cool! The whole thing was made up...that's fecking hilarious!!! That someone would go to such lengths to get themselves a little more attention. When you know eventually you're going to be found out and then you find you've really dug yourself into a big hole. I couldn't even imagine claiming someone else's work as my own. There's something very inherently wrong with that. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:05:44 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? NJC Corey, I officially dub thee the JMDL Mythbuster! :-) Bob NP: Paul Weller, "Porcelain Gods" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:09:49 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? True Jimmy, but the good news was that Joni added an extra song to her set, "just to pi$$ that guy off", she said. And it was, of course, BSN....the only time she sang it on that tour. So thanks to the small handful of rude Dylan fans that were there that night. Bob NP: DMB, "Seven" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:13:06 -0700 From: Corey Blake Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? NJC Hah, thank you, Bob! I'm honored! - -Corey On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:05 AM, wrote: > > Corey, I officially dub thee the JMDL Mythbuster! :-) > > Bob > > NP: Paul Weller, "Porcelain Gods" > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com Mailing List - http://coreyblake.googlepages.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:24:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? >>When they toured together in '98, you would have thought it was a boxing ring amongst their fans. I attended the Atlanta concert and Joni was on first. Some of Dylan's fans were restless, noisy, and rude while Joni performed......at least from what I witnessed. Same thing happened in Chicago, Jimmy. People were yelling at Joni, telling her to "get the fuck off the stage". She had to stop talking at one point and shout down a heckler. That she was able to give such a magnificent performance is to her credit. Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:25:45 -0500 From: Happy The Man Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? What was that claymation show that did boxing matches. Now that would be cool. Or Joni and Jackson Browne, or Joni and ..... On 4/22/2010 10:31 AM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > I'd personally like to see the two of them in a boxing ring. > -M > ________________________________ > From: Em > To: > joni@smoe.org; Les Irvin > Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 > 8:14:05 AM > Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? > > I have to say, this > cracks me up. > Maybe she and Bob could have a laugh about it, together. > Like > Bob might find that pretty funny. > > But yeah, she's real crotchety, eh? > But > hey, folk music plagiarizes freely. Its not just Bob. There's a tradition > in > folk music of taking snippets of songs and shuffling them around in your > own > song. Kinda like Joni did in "Silky Veils". > > I just hope she has lots of happy > and peaceful moments and isn't grouchy at > her own self, when she's alone. > Maybe she only bristles up like a porcupine > when feeling threatened by having > to be "on". "On" meaning having to be Joni > Mitchell, the public persona, > rather than Joni the lady who lives happily up > on the hill with cats and > paintings and whatever all else. > > Just some thoughts. > Em > > --- On Thu, 4/22/10, > Les Irvin wrote: > > From: Les Irvin > Subject: Joni disses Bob. What the...? > To: joni@smoe.org > Date: Thursday, > April 22, 2010, 2:14 AM > > In the new LATimes interview: > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2235 > > > > LAT: The folk scene you > came out of had fun creating personas. You were born > Roberta Joan Anderson, > and someone named Bobby Zimmerman became Bob Dylan. > > JM: Bob is not authentic > at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice > are fake. Everything about > Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he > and I. > > > > Weird. Joni > usually speaks highly of Mr Dylan. Classic example of being > taken out of > context (way, way out of context.) or is Joni becoming the old > lady hitting > people with the cane like she predicted she would be? > > > > Go figure, > > Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 19:49:30 +0100 From: Anita G Subject: Re: LA Times Article Yes, that was most positive and not at all crotchety. I hope that means Joni won't go all Garbo or Dietrich and hide away - but be out and proud! Good Health everyone - and Happy Birthday and Earth Day Walt! Anita On 22 April 2010 16:52, wrote: > I'm happy to read that Joni says she feels better now than she has for months. > She mentioned that she was out recently for the first time since December > 23rd, and wants to devote time to bringing credibility to Morgellons > sufferers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:07:25 -0700 From: Leah Welborn Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2010 #118 On Apr 21, 2010, at 11:14 PM, Les Irvin wrote: > In the new LATimes interview: > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2235 This interview made me giggle. She sure can be curmudgeonly! I think it's really interesting that she mentions Prince, just after we'd been discussing the connection. Hmmm....is La Mitchell a lurker here? xoxox Leah On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:00 AM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Thursday, April 22 2010 Volume 2010 : Number > 118 > > > > ========== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:43:50 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: What the....? Episode 2 http://www.markprindle.com/mitchell.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:44:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: don't confront me with my failures NJC This was sent to me by a friend of spirit, and I wanted to share it as well as say, I still love this song, and have been softened toward my previous opines about Jackson. He looks lovely wonderful in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iERA9gycLg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:50:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? hi Jimmy...yea I saw that concert in Toronto...a band then Joni then Bob D. I really didnt want to stay on to see Bob, but Chris and I decided we should, anyway..it was amazing how many people poured in to Maple Leaf Gardens (shiver) to see him! I think this diss of Joni's toward Bob is not a new one, n'est-ce pas? Dunno, but my old bat brain seems to think this is so. love love Mags - --- On Thu, 4/22/10, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? To: motitan75@yahoo.com, joni@smoe.org Received: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 12:16 PM When they toured together in '98, you would have thought it was a boxing ring amongst their fans. I attended the Atlanta concert and Joni was on first. Some of Dylan's fans were restless, noisy, and rude while Joni performed......at least from what I witnessed. Jimmy In a message dated 4/22/2010 11:46:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, motitan75@yahoo.com writes: > I'd personally like to see the two of them in a boxing ring ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:55:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Or one of those dissing contests, like the "Yo mama..." kind of thing. ________________________________ From: Monika Bogdanowicz To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 11:31:04 AM Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? I'd personally like to see the two of them in a boxing ring. - -M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 22:10:55 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? It's new to me. I always thought she admired Dylan and considered him a peer. When I search my admittedly aging brain for Joni's comments on Dylan, I remember her talking about how Positively 4th Street taught her that you can write honest songs, or something to that effect. I think in later years she talked admiringly about his lyrics but said that his music was unsophisticated compared to hers - fair enough, IMO, and didn't Dylan himself say something along the same lines? I wonder if Joni just can't stop herself during these interviews, and regrets the outbursts later, or if she actually enjoys being outrageous. If Either way, I hope she doesn't play the whiney card when people slam her for this. Because this Dylan guy does have his fans, and I predict they will slam her hard. At 07:50 PM 4/22/2010, you wrote: >I think this diss of Joni's toward Bob is not a new one, n'est-ce pas? Dunno, >but my old bat brain seems to think this is so. > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:29:30 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Same thing at the Gorge. I wrote about it at the time. People were getting up and milling around and talking all during Joni's performance. I had to concentrate really hard to keep from letting it spoil my first time seeing Joni Mitchell in concert. It was really hard to keep from screaming at people to sit down and shut the f**k up. Mark in Seattle - -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:16 AM To: ; Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? > When they toured together in '98, you would have thought it was a boxing > ring amongst their fans. I attended the Atlanta concert and Joni was on > first. > Some of Dylan's fans were restless, noisy, and rude while Joni > performed......at least from what I witnessed. > > Jimmy > > In a message dated 4/22/2010 11:46:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > motitan75@yahoo.com writes: > >> I'd personally like to see the two of them in a boxing ring ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 04:21:40 +0000 From: revrvl@gmail.com Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Hmmmm... In Chicago I did yell that Vince - ------Original Message------ From: Mark Sender: owner-joni@smoe.org To: FMYFL@aol.com To: motitan75@yahoo.com To: joni@smoe.org ReplyTo: Mark Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? Sent: Apr 22, 2010 11:29 PM Same thing at the Gorge. I wrote about it at the time. People were getting up and milling around and talking all during Joni's performance. I had to concentrate really hard to keep from letting it spoil my first time seeing Joni Mitchell in concert. It was really hard to keep from screaming at people to sit down and shut the f**k up. Mark in Seattle - -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:16 AM To: ; Subject: Re: Joni disses Bob. What the...? > When they toured together in '98, you would have thought it was a boxing > ring amongst their fans. I attended the Atlanta concert and Joni was on > first. > Some of Dylan's fans were restless, noisy, and rude while Joni > performed......at least from what I witnessed. > > Jimmy > > In a message dated 4/22/2010 11:46:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > motitan75@yahoo.com writes: > >> I'd personally like to see the two of them in a boxing ring Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2010 #119 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------