From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2009 #316 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, October 24 2009 Volume 2009 : Number 316 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: More Joni news from Oz [Mags ] Re: More Joni news from Oz [Mags ] Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC [Rian Afriadi ] Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC ["Mark Scott" Subject: Re: More Joni news from Oz nice find...listening now, thanks so much, Melissa Mags. - --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Melissa Gibbs wrote: From: Melissa Gibbs Subject: More Joni news from Oz To: joni@smoe.org Received: Friday, October 23, 2009, 12:10 AM Just found this: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/intothemusic/ I can' get the media player to work on my Mac, so I can't comment on what it's like. Melissa in Sydney __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer. 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:09:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: More Joni news from Oz well done, part two clips included at the end. most enjoyable, even if 'we' know much of the information already, it's wonderful to hear variations on a theme by joni mitchell ;-) (reference to rachmaninoff/paganini ;P Melissa, no need to apologize...Im glad for the info that I might not get to hear otherwise. Mags, glad for connections of the Aussie kind ;) - --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Melissa Gibbs wrote: From: Melissa Gibbs Subject: More Joni news from Oz To: joni@smoe.org Received: Friday, October 23, 2009, 12:10 AM Just found this: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/intothemusic/ I can' get the media player to work on my Mac, so I can't comment on what it's like. Melissa in Sydney __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:40:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC I have a weird question to ask of anyone who is a literary type. This question is so freakin' esoteric that I'm sure only a few people might get it but I thought I'd throw it out there in the hope that someone will, since it's driving me completely insane and making me wonder whether I'm a moron after all. My son has a university assignment to do dealing with intertextuality, using two short stories/essays and how one writer references another writer's story in his and how having knowledge of the first (earlier) one enhances your understanding of the second (later) story. I absolutely DO NOT understand what "intertextuality" really means, despite having googled it. Anything I've read on it is so full of jargon as to render it incomprehensible to anyone but maybe a group of ten or so in the world (OK, I exaggerate.) I'm having difficulty understanding whether there's any difference between "intertextuality" and simply comparing elements in the two stories to show how the later one references the earlier one. I took it to mean how having read the first story, one can see how the second story uses a similar structure, similarities in characters/types and similarities in language used by the characters in it; and how, if you hadn't read the first, you might have a different view of the character in the second than you would if you had read the first. For example, if you've studied English Victorian literature, it sometimes helps to have read "The Pilgrim's Progress," since children raise during that era would likely have read it and include references to it that only someone who has read it might understand. My son seems to think it's something more complicated than that and says they're not just supposed to compare things - however, he doesn't understand what he's supposed to do, nor do I. He has asked his Teaching Assistant (but via email) and doesn't feel any more enlightened. I've looked at the assignments they've asked him to do and I don't understand them either and get the distinct impression they're unnecessarily complicating things in order to scare people off for whatever reason. Despite having studied literature at school, I never studied anything called "intertextuality" and I think, if I had, I would have torn my hair out and hurled myself off a cliff eons ago. Can anyone help me understand this? If so, and you're so inclined, please feel free to email me privately since I'm sure this is a subject that most people wouldn't care much about! __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:21:22 +0000 (UTC) From: rflynn@frontiernet.net Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC Briefly, my understanding of intertextuality is that texts are not the product of a single author alone, but exist in relation to other texts. Intertexuality should be distinguished from mere allusion or reference. It is the relationship of a text with all other texts with in a culture. The texts speak to each other (what Bakhtin calls dialogism) The connections are made by the reader as a co-creator of the text. It might be useful to think of hypertextuality (i.e. what you do on the internet) as an extreme form of intertextuality. That said, I don't understand exactly what is being asked of your son. If one writer specifically references an earlier text that really isn't intertextuality. Now, my explanation is a layperson's--I'm not much of a structuralist. If you dare you can read the early works of Julia Kristeva, who coined the term, and if you double dare, you can read them in French. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:40:28 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC I have a weird question to ask of anyone who is a literary type. This question is so freakin' esoteric that I'm sure only a few people might get it but I thought I'd throw it out there in the hope that someone will, since it's driving me completely insane and making me wonder whether I'm a moron after all. My son has a university assignment to do dealing with intertextuality, using two short stories/essays and how one writer references another writer's story in his and how having knowledge of the first (earlier) one enhances your understanding of the second (later) story. I absolutely DO NOT understand what "intertextuality" really means, despite having googled it. Anything I've read on it is so full of jargon as to render it incomprehensible to anyone but maybe a group of ten or so in the world (OK, I exaggerate.) I'm having difficulty understanding whether there's any difference between "intertextuality" and simply comparing elements in the two stories to show how the later one references the earlier one. I took it to mean how having read the first story, one can see how the second story uses a similar structure, similarities in characters/types and similarities in language used by the characters in it; and how, if you hadn't read the first, you might have a different view of the character in the second than you would if you had read the first. For example, if you've studied English Victorian literature, it sometimes helps to have read "The Pilgrim's Progress," since children raise during that era would likely have read it and include references to it that only someone who has read it might understand. My son seems to think it's something more complicated than that and says they're not just supposed to compare things - however, he doesn't understand what he's supposed to do, nor do I. He has asked his Teaching Assistant (but via email) and doesn't feel any more enlightened. I've looked at the assignments they've asked him to do and I don't understand them either and get the distinct impression they're unnecessarily complicating things in order to scare people off for whatever reason. Despite having studied literature at school, I never studied anything called "intertextuality" and I think, if I had, I would have torn my hair out and hurled myself off a cliff eons ago. Can anyone help me understand this? If so, and you're so inclined, please feel free to email me privately since I'm sure this is a subject that most people wouldn't care much about! __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:29:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC with a nod to Joni's songs as an example sjc i love it when you make me think LOL..okay here's a few attempts at understanding... from my Oxford Dictionary of Literary Terms: Intertextuality is a term coined by Julia Kristeva to designate the various relationships that a given text may have with other texts. These intertextual relationships (techniques used) - include anagram, allusion, adaptation, translation, parody, pastiche, imitation, and other kinds of transformation. In the literary theories of structuralism and post-structuralism, texts are seen to refer to other texts (or to themselves as texts) rather than to an external reality. The term intertext has been used variously for a text drawing on other texts, for a text thus drawn upon and for the relationship between both. *** now me: intertextuality is complex however some examples might help untangle things. This is what I gather from my research on the topic ...intertextuality means that if you refer to another work directly within the context of your text , by doing so, you enhance the meaning of what you are writing about...the moment, the point, the image, the colour, the scent, ...using text from another work helps breath life into what you are trying to get across, or gives your work a deeper meaning..so you can enter into that place of "aha"...now I get it. Joni utilizes the technique of intertextuality all the time so that we can get a grasp of where she's heading in a song, or what she means in that moment. Sign posts yea. as mentioned in the dictionary description, parody is but one method of using a text (intetextuality) from another place to create something entertaining and yet, plants the idea more clearly ... from one to the other. When someone makes up a parody of a Joni Mitchell song, we roar with laughter because we "get" the references made, (as long as we are familiar with the song)... . I think that's a fairly accurate attempt...Richard? Anyone else? Mags, appreciative of this kind of challenge.... - --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Catherine McKay wrote: From: Catherine McKay Subject: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC To: joni@smoe.org Received: Friday, October 23, 2009, 11:40 AM I have a weird question to ask of anyone who is a literary type. This question is so freakin' esoteric that I'm sure only a few people might get it but I thought I'd throw it out there in the hope that someone will, since it's driving me completely insane and making me wonder whether I'm a moron after all. My son has a university assignment to do dealing with intertextuality, using two short stories/essays and how one writer references another writer's story in his and how having knowledge of the first (earlier) one enhances your understanding of the second (later) story. I absolutely DO NOT understand what "intertextuality" really means, despite having googled it. Anything I've read on it is so full of jargon as to render it incomprehensible to anyone but maybe a group of ten or so in the world (OK, I exaggerate.) I'm having difficulty understanding whether there's any difference between "intertextuality" and simply comparing elements in the two stories to show how the later one references the earlier one. I took it to mean how having read the first story, one can see how the second story uses a similar structure, similarities in characters/types and similarities in language used by the characters in it; and how, if you hadn't read the first, you might have a different view of the character in the second than you would if you had read the first. For example, if you've studied English Victorian literature, it sometimes helps to have read "The Pilgrim's Progress," since children raise during that era would likely have read it and include references to it that only someone who has read it might understand. My son seems to think it's something more complicated than that and says they're not just supposed to compare things - however, he doesn't understand what he's supposed to do, nor do I. He has asked his Teaching Assistant (but via email) and doesn't feel any more enlightened. I've looked at the assignments they've asked him to do and I don't understand them either and get the distinct impression they're unnecessarily complicating things in order to scare people off for whatever reason. Despite having studied literature at school, I never studied anything called "intertextuality" and I think, if I had, I would have torn my hair out and hurled myself off a cliff eons ago. Can anyone help me understand this? If so, and you're so inclined, please feel free to email me privately since I'm sure this is a subject that most people wouldn't care much about! __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer. 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:41:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC Y'know, as a former French lit major, I just cringe at the many ways English lit professors and students try to turn literature into a pseudo-science/half-psych kind of hybrid. So here's the deal. Think of your typical Saturday Night Live skit, say the famous Star Trek parody. If you'd never seen the original Star Trek, the skit wouldn't have been all that funny. But, the more you're familiar with the original, the funnier the skit is. That, in a nutshell, is the concept of intertextuality (but you have to apply it to books/stories/etc.) A small example is Joyce Carol Oates' short story "Where Are You Going Where Have You Been." She peppers it with references to Bob Dylan lyrics. I 'got' most of them, except one. I remember the professor almost begging me to explain the image of the cowboy whose boots are at a weird angle. ("waiting for my boot heels to be wandering" from Mr. Tamborine Man. Duh!) Anyway, it makes the story richer when you "discover" the allusions. From what I understand, Salman Rushdie is kind of a master of intertextuality. But I couldn't abide his writing - too full of himself - it was like a neon billboard in which he tries to proclaim how intellectually clever he is. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Anyway, it sounds like they're trying to make it more complicated than it is. Just think movie remake, but apply it to fiction and you're good to go. lots of love, Anne On Oct 23, 2009, Catherine McKay wrote: I have a weird question to ask of anyone who is a literary type. This question is so freakin' esoteric that I'm sure only a few people might get it but I thought I'd throw it out there in the hope that someone will, since it's driving me completely insane and making me wonder whether I'm a moron after all. My son has a university assignment to do dealing with intertextuality, using two short stories/essays and how one writer references another writer's story in his and how having knowledge of the first (earlier) one enhances your understanding of the second (later) story. I absolutely DO NOT understand what "intertextuality" really means, despite having googled it. Anything I've read on it is so full of jargon as to render it incomprehensible to anyone but maybe a group of ten or so in the world (OK, I exaggerate.) I'm having difficulty understanding whether there's any difference between "intertextuality" and simply comparing elements in the two stories to show how the later one references the earlier one. I took it to mean how having read the first story, one can see how the second story uses a similar structure, similarities in characters/types and similarities in language used by the characters in it; and how, if you hadn't read the first, you might have a different view of the character in the second than you would if you had read the first. For example, if you've studied English Victorian literature, it sometimes helps to have read "The Pilgrim's Progress," since children raise during that era would likely have read it and include references to it that only someone who has read it might understand. My son seems to think it's something more complicated than that and says they're not just supposed to compare things - however, he doesn't understand what he's supposed to do, nor do I. He has asked his Teaching Assistant (but via email) and doesn't feel any more enlightened. I've looked at the assignments they've asked him to do and I don't understand them either and get the distinct impression they're unnecessarily complicating things in order to scare people off for whatever reason. Despite having studied literature at school, I never studied anything called "intertextuality" and I think, if I had, I would have torn my hair out and hurled myself off a cliff eons ago. Can anyone help me understand this? If so, and you're so inclined, please feel free to email me privately since I'm sure this is a subject that most people wouldn't care much about! __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:48:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC What you've said makes it almost comprehensible - definitely more than the words his prof used. He's comparing "The Killers" by Hemingway with "Bullet in the brain" by Tobias Wolff. Well, I guess he's not exactly "comparing," is he? I do think I have a better understanding now, although I think Wolff intentionally referenced Hemingway, but I could be dead wrong. Hemingway definitely didn't reference Wolff because I'm sure he was long dead before Wolff wrote his story. There is quite definitely a very marked change in writing style once the character Anders is shot and I feel that, up until that point, he writes in a very Hemingway style, at least, in a similar style to that particular story. As well, I see both stories as having very cliche (or archetypal) situations that would be familiar to people in our culture (two guys walk into a diner looking for this guy they're hired to kill but he's not there; two guys walk into a bank intending to rob it and kill a guy because he pisses them off: one/two/three guys walk into a bar and so on.) My feeling is, you read either of these stories and there's something kind of familiar about them, but you're not quite sure what it is (these are places we've all been before and scenarios we've seen in movies, books, TV, maybe in person) and there are things you'd understand from "Bullet" only if you had read "Killers" and bla-bla-bla. Julia K is one of the people I found while doing that google search. I think I'll pass on reading her stuff! Even the wikipedia entry on intertextuality had me rolling my eyes! It doesn't help that my kid has an LD so you have to explain things to him a number of times in a number of different ways before he really gets it. Once he does get it, he's fine and off to the races. In the meantime, it's hell on earth and he bitches about what a loser he is for not understanding it, even if I tell him I don't get it either! Strangely enough though, if he can stand it, I think he will learn a great deal from this course. I remember taking textual analysis in French one year and absolutely squirming at the level of analysis that was done word by word, and thinking how friggin' boring it is, but it does help you to understand much better how language works. And fortunately it was only a one-semester course! ________________________________ From: "rflynn@frontiernet.net" To: Catherine McKay Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Fri, October 23, 2009 2:21:22 PM Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC Briefly, my understanding of intertextuality is that texts are not the product of a single author alone, but exist in relation to other texts. Intertexuality should be distinguished from mere allusion or reference. It is the relationship of a text with all other texts with in a culture. The texts speak to each other (what Bakhtin calls dialogism) The connections are made by the reader as a co-creator of the text. It might be useful to think of hypertextuality (i.e. what you do on the internet) as an extreme form of intertextuality. That said, I don't understand exactly what is being asked of your son. If one writer specifically references an earlier text that really isn't intertextuality. Now, my explanation is a layperson's--I'm not much of a structuralist. If you dare you can read the early works of Julia Kristeva, who coined the term, and if you double dare, you can read them in French. __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:33:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC with a nod to Joni's songs as an example sjc You can ask Joni people ANYTHING and there's always at least one person who will answer - and so far, I've had three. You guys ROCK!!! Thanks. ________________________________ i love it when you make me think LOL..okay here's a few attempts at understanding... from my Oxford Dictionary of Literary Terms: Intertextuality is a term coined by Julia Kristeva to designate the various relationships that a given text may have with other texts. These intertextual relationships (techniques used) - include anagram, allusion, adaptation, translation, parody, pastiche, imitation, and other kinds of transformation. .... Joni utilizes the technique of intertextuality all the time so that we can get a grasp of where she's heading in a song, or what she means in that moment. Sign posts yea. as mentioned in the dictionary description, parody is but one method of using a text (intetextuality) from another place to create something entertaining and yet, plants the idea more clearly ... from one to the other. When someone makes up a parody of a Joni Mitchell song, we roar with laughter because we "get" the references made, (as long as we are familiar with the song)... ________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer. 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:35:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC Another excellent response and I'm so glad to see how you and I see eye to eye on the pseudo-science thing. I think sometimes you can analyze a thing to death. Did you ever have to do "analyse de texte" in French? Aiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeee! ________________________________ From: Anne Sandstrom To: anima_rising@yahoo.ca Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Fri, October 23, 2009 2:41:24 PM Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC Y'know, as a former French lit major, I just cringe at the many ways English lit professors and students try to turn literature into a pseudo-science/half-psych kind of hybrid. So here's the deal. Think of your typical Saturday Night Live skit, say the famous Star Trek parody. If you'd never seen the original Star Trek, the skit wouldn't have been all that funny. But, the more you're familiar with the original, the funnier the skit is. That, in a nutshell, is the concept of intertextuality (but you have to apply it to books/stories/etc.) A small example is Joyce Carol Oates' short story "Where Are You Going Where Have You Been." She peppers it with references to Bob Dylan lyrics. I 'got' most of them, except one. I remember the professor almost begging me to explain the image of the cowboy whose boots are at a weird angle. ("waiting for my boot heels to be wandering" from Mr. Tamborine Man. Duh!) Anyway, it makes the story richer when you "discover" the allusions. From what I understand, Salman Rushdie is kind of a master of intertextuality. But I couldn't abide his writing - too full of himself - it was like a neon billboard in which he tries to proclaim how intellectually clever he is. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Anyway, it sounds like they're trying to make it more complicated than it is. Just think movie remake, but apply it to fiction and you're good to go. lots of love, Anne __________________________________________________________________ Get the name you've always wanted @ymail.com or @rocketmail.com! Go to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:27:39 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC Catherine, I found references to these examples of intertextuality in literature. - - East of Eden (1952) by John Steinbeck: A retelling of the story of Genesis, set in the Salinas Valley of Northern California. - - Ulysses (1918) by James Joyce: A retelling of Homer's Odyssey, set in Dublin. - - The Dead Fathers Club (2006) by Matt Haig: A retelling of Shakespeare's Hamlet, set in modern England. - - A Thousand Acres (1991) by Jane Smiley: A retelling of Shakespeare's King Lear, set in rural Iowa. - - Perelandra (1943) by C. S. Lewis: Another retelling of the story of Genesis, also leaning on Milton's Paradise Lost, but set on the planet Venus. And then the following interesting information: Intertextuality: the theory that a literary work is not simply the product of a single author, but of its relationship to other texts and to the structures of language itself. Current theory also broadens the definition of "a text" beyond literary works to include other art forms, for instance, the movie "Matrix Reloaded," the "Animatrix," the Matrix video game, and websites about the movie are all interrelated "texts" that influence one another. Perhaps the reference to The Matrix and "The Animatrix" and their relationship to the video game might be something worth pursuing in terms of a more approachable way to understand the relationships and therefore come to an understanding. Warmly, Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:28:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC i think i bloody need a rest because i read the thread, almost finished, and then i thought "where is the relation with intersexuality?" rian thanks for the thread, now i know there is a thing called inter*text*uality ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:28:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Leave them laughing when you go. JC? I bloody made it to around the bloody 45-second mark. Bob NP: Dead Kennedys, "Funland At The Beach" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:00:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC That would be MUCH more interesting! ________________________________ From: Rian Afriadi Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Fri, October 23, 2009 5:28:00 PM Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC i think i bloody need a rest because i read the thread, almost finished, and then i thought "where is the relation with intersexuality?" rian thanks for the thread, now i know there is a thing called inter*text*uality __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 23:00:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: It's a boy! Victor, I am SO happy for you! Congratulations to both parents, and welcome to this very much loved little boy! My best advice is: enjoy, enjoy every aspect of it! You're starting on a huge new adventure in your life, one that will be with you for the rest of your life. Be guided by love! I hope to have the chance to see you all in Atlanta in the not-so-distant future. Big hug, Lieve - ---------- Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:50:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Subject: It's a boy! Coltrane Daniel Johnson was born at 1:16pm. He's 6lb 5.9oz and 20 inches and has nice long fingers! Pictures are up on Facebook. More to come! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:35:21 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Intertextuality - absolutely no NJC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" > Another excellent response and I'm so glad to see how you and I see > eye to eye > on the pseudo-science thing. I think sometimes you can analyze a > thing to > death. I belong to another listserv devoted to Virginia Woolf. It is a very odd listserv, imo. Mostly it is made up of academic types and they use the listserv as a kind of resource. When somebody can't think of where a specific quote or reference comes from, they will ask the VWoolf listserv. Sometimes several of these various professor & PHD types will respond to posts about the most trivial things. Whole threads have been started about some piece of minutia out of one of Woolf's pieces of writing. I have to shake my head and chuckle. I'm sure they could all go into long discourses on 'intertextuality' if they ever bothered to be that informative to a 'common reader.' (I suppose 'common reader' is an intertextual reference to two collections of literary essays that Woolf wrote and published as 'The Common Reader' and 'The Second Common Reader'.) Mixed in with the other posts (and there are days at a time when there are no posts at all) are various 'calls for papers' and some of them give lists of suggestions for subject matter. These can be (imo) the most far-fetched, hyper-analytical (is that a word?) things. It boggles the mind and I have to wonder if Woolf had 99% of that stuff in mind when she wrote. Every now & then I throw in a post about my personal impressions of a given topic or novel. I always feel like a toddler playing with building blocks when I do it. I sometimes get 'off-list' responses from other 'common readers' but mostly the academics ignore me. Compared to the JMDL it's a total yawn. I only stay subscribed because I'm still fascinated with Woolf and her writing. Owhatanurdiam. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2009 #316 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------