From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2009 #248 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, August 20 2009 Volume 2009 : Number 248 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You ["Jill Haas" ] Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You [Dave Blackburn ] RE: Translation - Joni and Norway - again ["Rob Argento" Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You When I first heard Mingus, I was determined to listen to anything Joni did until I liked it. It had worked for every new Joni release, no matter how different it was from previous work, and Mingus proved to be no exception. I didn't consider myself a big jazz fan, but in the end, it didn't matter much. Although I find that I appreciate certain songs less than others, I still love the record. Probably part of that has to do with the fact that I attempt to sing, and I'm still challenged (and amazed) by some of the vocal intervals Joni handles with ease, like those in "Goodbye Porkpie Hat" and oy, what's the one that opens with the line, "The rain fell hard as bars, it caught me by surprise..." I still get goosbumps. I really do have to work at them there intervals..."Wolf" has such a crazy guitar thing going on with that base string, and then has these beautiful moments also... "Of the darkness in men's minds..." Another reason why I love Mingus is that I live with a Jazz lover who didn't have much love for Joni, and I got to see him, over the years since Mingus, gain more than a grudging respect of Ms. Mitchell. He heard her stuff on his beloved Jazz station. He heard musicians he respected covering her work. He found out that some very well respected and even some of his favorite Jazz people played with her and respected her. He still won't say he loves her, but he feels a bit like a dope for not having seen in her work anything of what these other amazing Jazz people saw. I got a lot of "see, I told you so" pleasure out of that, and it all started with Mingus. Jill - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rian Afriadi" To: "jonipeople" Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 5:55 AM Subject: You and Mingus, Mingus and You > It's 2009. > > Thirty years ago Joni released her most unusual (probably "her weirdest") > album, called "Mingus". > > It's been thirty years and people still don't get this album. > > We all know how Blue and FTR and Hejira touch most of us. And we all know > those album have become soundtracks of our lives. > > But how about Mingus? > What did you think about this album when it was released? > Did you think Joni has gone too far? > > Thirty years later, what do you think about it? > > > Rian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:40:33 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You Come on, Gerry, surely you can appreciate Joni's fine lyrics on Mingus. That's the hook for me on that album. It eventually got me to appreciate Charles' music too. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:52:36 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Translation - Joni and Norway - again Does this mean that the Andersons/Farestvelts migrated twice? Once, from Norway to the USA and then to Canada? Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:25:58 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Translation - Joni and Norway - again On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:52 AM, Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > Does this mean that the Andersons/Farestvelts migrated twice? *Once, from > Norway to the USA and then to Canada? > * > Mark in Sydney > Hmmm, great catch, Mark! Both Karen O'Brien and Sheila Weller have it that the family emigrated directly to the Canadian town of New Norway---altho one has it in Saskatchewan, the other in Alberta---no mention of the U.S. I'm eagerly awaiting more of this genealogy that Les mentioned he's working on. At least now we finally know the name(s) of this great-grandmother. Terra - -- Some things in life it just gets too late to learn . . . --Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:02:17 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Woodstock & Joni Ooops! (again). After posting my previous comments about various versions of "Woodstock" last night, I was lying in bed this morning thinking, "I didn't hear Joni's live version from Monterrey Pop... that was BEFORE Woodstock took place... it was Celebration at Big Sur." I stand corrected (even though no one has corrected me... YET. My JMDL post has not arrived from Les yet, as of 8 AM.) Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:14:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: RE: Translation - Joni and Norway - again Rob translated: In "Woman of mind and Heart" from 2000 she says that she has no doubts as to her musical roots. And perhaps now she will soon know that those roots lay in Faresveit Farm, where the waters of the Moelvi run, as they always have, down into The Mo valley. Hi Rob, I enjoyed reading your translation and got a lot more out of the article. I especially love this last sentence. It is very Joni-like. Love,Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:43:10 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: RE: You and Mingus, Mingus and You Hi Rian, Just want to chime in here about Mingus. I remember in 1979 I was following everything Joni did with a passion and really loved Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. The week Mingus came out I got the album immediately and at a huge party at my parents house (I was either engaged or newly married so we were having parties all the time) I put Mingus on the turntable, stood up on a chair and proceeded to lip synch the whole album (I was really drunk). That completely cleared the room and everyone thought I was nuts. My brother was a really good trumpet player and we listened to a lot of jazz (thanks for bringing up Weather Report, we were also really into Return to Forever and Mahavishnu Orchestra). But it was clear that Mingus was even a little too weird for this crowd. Back to 2009, I attempted to learn The Wolf that Lives in Lindsay for the first time earlier this spring. It's a brilliant song, the lyrics are amazing and it's a very sinister tuning. I had to put it down for other summer activities but if I'm crazy enough I might try to practice it for Southern California Jonifest. I listen to Mingus all the time and am still blown away by the singing, too. The phrasing in Dry Cleaner from Des Moines is acrobatic. Only a month and change till SoCal Jonifest, I'm so psyched. Take care, Sue ___________________ /___________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell > It's 2009. >> >> Thirty years ago Joni released her most unusual (probably "her weirdest") >> album, called "Mingus". >> >> It's been thirty years and people still don't get this album. >> >> We all know how Blue and FTR and Hejira touch most of us. And we all know >> those album have become soundtracks of our lives. >> >> But how about Mingus? >> What did you think about this album when it was released? >> Did you think Joni has gone too far? >> >> Thirty years later, what do you think about it? >> >> >> Rian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:05:58 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You I have always loved Mingus and bought it the summer of 1979. I was a huge Weather report fan and a nascent jazz player myself so hearing Joni's "extended" musical foray played by most of the members of Weather Report was a dream. In some ways the music remains aloof and impenetrable, not because I don't get it or understand how it's played, but just that the dreamscape of it is so opaque. The juxtapositions of lyrical subjects, the melodies almost "through composed", the twangy acoustic guitar against the urban Fender Rhodes, the extremes of dryness and huge wet reverb in the same mix etc etc. Fascinating to this day! The summer of '79 I was working as a waiter in Manitou Springs CO, over from England for the summer to visit my dad. Being from England I knew nothing about American cocktails and the bartender took me under his wing and day by day educated me as to what was a Pina Colada, a Manhattan, a Rob Roy etc and would fix me one discreetly after my shift so I could try them first hand. He was this huge bearded mountain man with a gruff voice, the kind of man you might find at a bluegrass festival or NRA rally. One day I came in for my lunch shift and he said to me "Oh man, I just got Joni Mitchell's latest album, called "Mingus", and it's the best thing she's ever done." I bought it that afternoon and have loved it ever since. Nine years earlier, as an 11 year old boy, I spent my meager pocket money on a single by Mathews Southern Comfort called Woodstock. I loved the dreamy pedal steel guitar and the nice chords. It read on the label that the song was written by someone called Mitchell. I'd never heard of Mitchell and didn't put two and two together for many years, not having grown up with the Woodstock culture or hearing CSN&Y. I still have my 45 in its paper sleeve. Zooby's tale reminded me of that. Dave (counting the days to JoniFest) On Aug 19, 2009, at 12:00 AM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > But how about Mingus? > What did you think about this album when it was released? > Did you think Joni has gone too far? > > Thirty years later, what do you think about it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:23:54 +0100 From: Leslie Ross Subject: Subject: You and Mingus, Mingus and You I remember buying the Melody Maker around the time Mingus came out. Typically, reviewers would have advanced copies and reviews arrived ahead of the release date  if not release date then certainly available date given where i was living at the time. The review was headed "Joni, Err Um" accompanied by a fairly unflattering cartoon of Joni playing guitar. My heart sank. I was SUCH a devotee of her work that the prospect of her producing a dud kinda floored me. Anyway, i went out and bought Mingus as soon as it was in the record shop in a town i had to hitch a ride to get to. On first and many subsequent listens, I just didnt get it. Wolf was a barrage and everything else seemed tuneless to me. I kinda liked Is a muggin but that was it. The raps have always been more irritating than colouring for me. Then one day after not listening to it for an age  and i mean months  i found myself humming Chair in the Sky. I didnt rush back to the record but when i did, the seeds had all taken and it became a firm and unique favourite. When eventually i got a music system capable of handling the outputs, it was a wonderful meeting. The Mingus songs are still the ones i sing when im in my cups  which aint so often these days I have to say. Les (London). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:40:27 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You I thought it was brilliant then and I have not changed my opinion. She broke new ground while paying homage not only to Charles Mingus but to HIS influences as well as hers. The jazz press knew it too. You can't tell me that it was a circulation growing decision to put her name on the cover of Downbeat in a font LARGER than that used for Count Basie, all the while knowing that purists would howl over Jaco's presence. That was like Dylan going electric all over. "Mingus" was perhaps the last "timeless" studio record she created, as fresh today as it was then. One could argue that once the Klein era began it became easier to date the music by virtue of the studio gloss and choices in sound texture (DED not withstanding, one would expect that to be documentary of the time). I think that's why longtime fans rejoiced over NRH and TI, not only because the writing was back up to snuff but because they were sonically ageless. I'm still waiting for a great jazz singer like Ann Hampton Callaway to cover "A Chair in the Sky" or "Sweet Sucker Dance." CC "Auntie Ruthie would have cried if she knew we were on the inside." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackTo School_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:37:07 -0400 From: "Rob Argento" Subject: RE: Translation - Joni and Norway - again That was a great observation, Mark! I had to go back and look at the original article and see if I had made a mistake in the translation. But it DOES say " fxr det bar av gerde. I USA skulle navnet forandres..." - USA being definately mentioned. In that much of Swedish and Norwegian genealogy is centered on those who emigrated to the USA that this might just be a slip up. But we really do not know. If I can find an email address to the author or to Arnfrid Maeland, I will ask. /Robban - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Mark-Leon Thorne Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:53 AM To: robert@argento.se Cc: jmdl LIST Subject: Re: Translation - Joni and Norway - again Does this mean that the Andersons/Farestvelts migrated twice? Once, from Norway to the USA and then to Canada? Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:04:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Translation - Joni and Norway - again Some of us (that would be me) have too much time on our hands, so I did a google search on Norwegian emigration to Canada. According to this website (http://www.direct.ca/news/cnord/norweg01.shtml), many Norwegians originally went to the US but headed to Canada from there: "Norwegian immigration to the United States and Canada was enormous when it's recognized that more than half of Norway's population moved to the New World. Only Ireland had a larger propertion of its people go to North America. Many originally went to the United States, then finding land unavailable or too expensive they headed for Canada. "The Norwegians settled in Saskatchewan and Alberta in huge numbers. They built their homesteads all over the Prairies, but most of all in a broad belt roughly stretching from Estevan (in Southeast Saskatchewan) to Saskatoon, the Battlefords, Camrose and Edmonton. Their communities reflected their heritage as they established their own churches and schools. The Norwegian language was predominant in their early communities for some time." As well, there is a HUGE website devoted to Norwegians in Canada and the US and it may be possible to figure out which ship Joni's ancestors arrived on, but it would take a lot of digging. There is a searchable database by name, but it's incomplete and covers only the period 1825-1873, and it looks like Joni's ancestors left in 1882. http://www.norwayheritage.com/ - --- On Wed, 8/19/09, Rob Argento wrote: > That was a great observation, > Mark! I had to go back and look at the > original article and see if I had made a mistake in the > translation. But it > DOES say " fxr det bar av gerde. I USA skulle navnet > forandres..." - USA > being definately mentioned. > > In that much of Swedish and Norwegian genealogy is centered > on those who > emigrated to the USA that this might just be a slip up. But > we really do not > know. > > If I can find an email address to the author or to Arnfrid > Maeland, I will > ask. > > /Robban > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] > On Behalf Of > Mark-Leon Thorne > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:53 AM > To: robert@argento.se > Cc: jmdl LIST > Subject: Re: Translation - Joni and Norway - again > > Does this mean that the Andersons/Farestvelts migrated > twice? Once, > from Norway to the USA and then to Canada? > > Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2009 #248 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------