From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2009 #78 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 9 2009 Volume 2009 : Number 078 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc [Mags ] Re: Barbie, njc [Laura Stanley ] Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc ["Anita Tedder" ] NJC - Kids Toys and Commercials on youtube [est86mlm@ameritech.net] Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc [Bruce Eggleston ] Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies [Catherine McKay ] Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies ["hell" ] Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies [Bob Muller ] Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc ["Mark Scott" ] Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc ["Mark Scott" ] Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies ["Mark Scott" ] Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies - now Bond [Em ] [njc] Now Barbie ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies ["Mark Scott" ] Message from website ["Les Irvin" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 09:34:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc wow. full stop. i am bowled over happy to read the posts that were waiting to be read over sunday morning coffee. thanks to everyone for your contributions. i enjoy this discussion list so much for the life stories come pouring in; openings to new ways of seeing your world. language, the way that words change their meaning over time interests me. when my mother was growing up, gay meant happy, queer meant strange. she still uses them from time to time and it's one of those oh mom moments! to be called a girl or a p*ssy , to be told you throw a baseball like a girl, these are meant as ultimate insults that cut to the core. as a 'girl', this tells me that is a bad thing. as a boy, i imagine that would hurt so much. btw, it used to bother me a lot if someone called me a girl. but now i dont mind it, because i'm pretty steady in that regard. in the now, it means to be part of the girls, one of the girls, as a positive thing. i grew weary trying to correct that in my stronger feminist days gone by. as mentioned already using the word gay as a weapon, an insult. for example, oh, that's so gay! i don't know which direction to go with my comments, so i will leave it at that. i look forward to more. i feel like i'm back in tutorial at uni. with a nod to Mike for the International Women's Day mention. we've come a long way but baby, we still have miles to go. I'll read that article and write to you off list, unless it's going to light another fire under me lol! Mags - --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Oddmund Kaarevik wrote: From: Oddmund Kaarevik Subject: Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc To: "Garret" Cc: "Catherine McKay" , "Mark-Leon Thorne" , joni@smoe.org Received: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 12:02 PM Very interesting thoughts Garret ! Thanks for sharing ! See Mr. Muller your thread about Barbie Dolls lead to this very interesting conversation You never know what you gonna get ! Love Oddmund Who is dreaming in his dreaming about the same thing as Garret hopes for. We have at least made some progress the last I don't know 30 years But I'm sure we still have way to go ! Looking forward to the digest tomorrow to read all the answers ! On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Garret wrote: > Thanks for the reflections folks. It was very interesting to read. I > can identify with some of what Oddmund and Mark said. I can > definitely recognize very similar stories among my friends. > > This topic has come to life just as i begin to think about these > issues for a presentation i am to give in three months time. > > I think you made a very interesting point here Catherine: > > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Catherine McKay > wrote: > > > > In some ways, I think our culture (western culture, in any case) may have > > become much more accepting of gays and lesbians than former generations, > which > > is a good thing, but maybe that depends on where you live. My kids still > > refer to anything they think is foolish or somehow unworthy as "gay," > > although, after much pressure from me and no doubt by friends, they now > try > > to use other words but somehow "lame" isn't a lot better, is it! > > > I think you are spot-on about our being more accepting. I often > become complacent that it is all fine as i tend to have few obvious > difficulties with it. I've never been beaten, rarely verbally abused, > coming out was very very easy. Many (most?) of the guys i was friends > with as a child grew up to be gay. > > The "gay" as an insult thing says a lot to me. It happens here too. > Even some of my gay friends use it that way. Sometimes i don't even > think of it as strange. When i think of the abuses perpetrated > against men and women outside of the heterosexual norm around the > world and in our countries in the past (distant and recent) it strikes > me as being insensitive and entirely unsavoury. I sometimes take it as > my responsibility to draw attention to this when people say it. That > can be uncomfortable. > > From the website of Amnesty International LGBT network: > "Governments around the world deploy an array of repressive laws and > practices to deprive their lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered > citizens of their dignity and to deny them their basic human rights. > Lesbian and gay people are imprisoned under laws which police the > bedroom and criminalize a kiss; they are tortured to extract > confessions of "deviance" and raped to "cure" them of it; they are > killed by "death squads" in societies which view them as > "disposables"; they are executed by the state which portrays them as a > threat to society." > > We may be past the days of LGBT folk as urnings, inverts, perverts, > criminals, having mental illness and all of that in most western > countries, but this does not mean we have come the whole way (i'm > don't mean to preach just spewing me thoughts). In my country i > cannot yet have my relationship with my partner recognized legally. > We have been together six and a half years. It does not feel safe to > express affection for each other in public. Reading any major gay news > site you very quickly become aware of the level of explicit violence > and implilcit hostility towards LGBT people around the world. > > I heard of a somewhat humorous letter to a government minister > recently. A woman from Limerick wrote to the minister saying that > this would be the very worst time in Ireland's history to introduce > gay marriage or civil union as that would meant that unioned couples > would stop paying tax as two single people, and start benefiting from > the tax status of couples. This made me chuckle. She wasn't saying "oh > the gays are evil, horrid, sick, deserve to be hurt", no, but she was > still advocating the denial of what i would consider a right. > Different strokes, eh? > > I'm not trying to single out the abuses, big or little, against LGBT > people. It is only one issue. I only want to say that this is an > examplar of the distance we have to go in a broad and general sense, > not necessarily to prod people into carrying the "pro-gay" card. The > topic could be attitudes towards people with disabilities, racism, > sexism, ageism or any of a wide range of very different topics that, i > think, show us that we are good at looking open and accepting, but we > are often caught up in the vast cultural currents that permeate our > societies, the voices that speak through us that we don't even notice. > > Sometimes i'm told i'm too sensitive about the gay thing, even by very > close friends, but for me that typifies exactly the point i am trying > to make. I'm embedded in a country, culture, society that may not be, > for the most part, explicitly homophobic, but it is dominated by > heternormative values. In very subtle ways i continue to be told that > i'm just not good enough, just not the same. > > I believe we'll get there, but i wish it was today. > GARRET > > ps - one year i took the big "barbie head" as part of my halloween > costume, lol, it was pretty funny. My sister was not too impressed > that it was all scuffed and i had dyed the hair dark with shoe polish. __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 10:09:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Barbie, njc Bob asked: 1. Did y'all grow up/play with Barbies? 2. If so, did doing so make you feel inadequate? Hi Bob, I can't believe we have resorted to talking about Barbie on the Joni list.. I wish there would have been Joni dolls instead of Barbie dolls when I was growing up. To answer your questions: 1. NO, I had babie dolls... no Barbie. 2. If Barbie was real she would be about 7 ft tall and wear a size 5 shoe I heard somewhere. How could any little girl feel inadequate playing with that kinds of monster? That was from memory... more accurate Barbie stats are below. Love, Laura 03.07.2008 What if Barbie Were a Real Woman? Categories: Studies/Research barbie IMAGINE THAT BARBIE, THAT ICONIC plastic whore (thanks, Urban Dictionary) became a real woman. How would she look? First, consider that there are 3 billion women on the planet who donbt look like Barbie; only 8 women even come close. If Barbie were human, her head would be the same circumference as her waist, meaning shebd have room for only half a liver and a few inches of intestines, (as opposed to the usual 26 feet). The result: chronic diarrhea and death from malabsorption & malnutrition. To look like Barbie proportionally, a healthy woman would need to add 61 cm to her height, subtract 15 cm from her waist, add 13 cm to her chest, and 8 cm to her neck length. Because Barbiebs neck is twice as long as the average humanbs, it would be impossible for her to hold up her head. Her legs are 50 percent longer than her arms, (the average womanbs legs are only 20 percent longer than her arms). Shebd also have to walk on all fours (her feet are so disproportionately small, her chest would pull her forward onto her toes). REAL WOMEN: * Average womanbs height is 5b24b3 * Their weight is approx. 140 lbs. * They wear a size 14 dress * Their bust is between 36b3 and 37b3 (B cup) * Their waist is between 30b3 and 34b3 * Their hips average between 40b3 and 42b3 * Their shoe size is estimated to be between 8.5 and 9.5 bHUMANb BARBIE: * Barbiebs height would be 7b22b3 * Her weight would be 101 lbs. * She would wear a size 4 dress * Her bust would be 39b3 (FF cup) * Her waist would be 19b3 (same as her head) * Her hips would be 33b3 * Her shoe size would be a 5 * Figure 2.0 http://www.peacelovelunges.com/2008/03/07/what-if-barbie-were-a-real-woman/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 17:22:34 -0000 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc So, who's going to Barbie Fest? I'm only going go to the one that Em's organises where you pull the heads off.......sounds like fun to me! Your sick mate Anita _____ I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter . We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1375 of my spam emails to date. The Professional version does not have this message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 11:26:14 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: NJC - Patti - Mystery Date? Favorite kids' toys Hey Patti, Could you be talking about the board game MYSTERY DATE You jogged my memory. That's a board game I had that I'd play with my girlfriends....and sometimes by myself. You'd open the door and never knew which guy would be there. Laura O. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 11:33:55 -0600 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Blue Motel Room and Refuge of the Roads Dave: You are absolutely right; it is ELECTRIC guitar that Joni plays ON EVERY TRACK (of Hejira). I was thinking of her driving across the country ("traveling in some vehicle, sitting in some cafe"), writing songs that are all GUITAR songs (no piano). I was imagining her sitting in her hotel room with her acoustic guitar, with the songs just pouring out of her. I would also argue that the next time she would return to a guitar-based sound was "NRH", and that her electric guitar playing (and sound) on Hejira is much closer to an acoustic guitar than to the elecTRONIC sound of the VG-8. ~Dan On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Dave Blackburn wrote: > Actually what is noteworthy is that she plays electric guitar throughout > the album. To my knowledge she had not done that prior and would not again > until the VG-8 appeared in her arsenal twenty years later. There is a little > acoustic guitar added in there too (and Larry Carlton plays the acoustic on > BMR) but what makes the texture of the whole Hejira album so different from > her other work in that era was her playing electric guitar with deep phasing > and lots of double tracking. > > > Dave > > On Mar 7, 2009, at 11:00 PM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 15:37:58 -0600 >> From: Dan Olson >> Subject: Re: Blue Motel Room and Refuge of the Roads >> >> It is also noteworthy that she was driving across the country ("the >> burning >> desert"), prolifically composing, but limited to guitar only - she had no >> access to a piano. It could be her only album (maybe besides STAS and >> Clouds) that is all acoustic guitar. (Of course, she had additional >> musicians in the studio, and Jaco's bass parts were overdubbed at a later >> time, but that's probably another thread). >> >> ~Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 11:32:52 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: NJC -Patti and Mystery Date Hey Patti Just found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_Date_(game) Remember the song for Mystery Date? Here it is (funny parody!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89V0jyGCPZw Laura O. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 10:31:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: NJC Tourette's Barbie soooooo totally NJC http://tinyurl.com/4yzfev ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:02:23 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: NJC - Kids Toys and Commercials on youtube Okay, now I'm sorry I sent out the other youtube video because this is the actual commercial with the song for Mystery Date. The Dream or the Dud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHsQpTbQ9Uo&feature=related Chatty Cathy Commercial (Mom bought me the blonde one) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatty_Cathy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cyj3SdvCPw&feature=related Barbie Commercial. I remember these! Remember the play house?? Chatty Cathy, Patti Playpal, Shirley Temple (I don't remember the Shirley doll), Betsy Wetsy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILJbNCX96aA&feature=related Spirograph (got this when I was older) & Easy Bake Oven (friend across the street had this. We ate ALOT of raw hamburger meat from hardly being cooked on the Easy Bake and never got sick!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5ScEl4ehsE&feature=channel Thumbelina (Patti, thanks for reminding me....had this one too!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R4LJT1tEww&feature=related All these videos reminded me that bendable Francie (Barbie's cousin) was also in my collection. Remember her? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff2OyUgjrGE&feature=related And Skipper who's wire popped out of her leg but played with her anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBJ2zO-tl58&feature=related Blast from the past! Laura O. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 12:52:26 -0600 From: Bruce Eggleston Subject: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc This caused me to reflect on those who protest against animal cruelty at horse shows and rodeos. This is similar in a way to beauty pageants for animals, particularly shows in Halter, Western and English pleasure classes. The anti-horse show movement is growing, but their doesn't seem to be the same kind of support for an anti- beauty pageant. I was literally born and raised at horse shows and rodeos. I've been to hundreds of them in Utah, Washington and Idaho. I never saw what went on there as cruel to the animals. There are of course instances of cruelty, but it does not seem to be systemic. Some exceptions are the calf roping, and the bucking horses and bulls where the animals are cinched up with buck-straps, just in front of their hind legs, to make them buck in an effort to free themselves. Even that would only rarely cause permanent damage to an animal. The rodeo stock is well- cared for and valued for what they could do in the ring. I'm not an apologist for these activities, and I never like going to the horse shows and rodeos, I was forced to by my parents. Later I took my children to these events to support their interests. I do have a deep respect for horses and good horsemanship and I don't see any part of that as being cruel. We have four horses and they are treated better than many people, as far as food and shelter go. The millennia-long relationship of humans, horses and cattle has always been of interest to me. These animals were crucial to civilization in every conceivable way. I greatly admire those who are good horsemen and horsewomen. I am one of them. I feel this millennial bond each time that I work with our horses. They are wonderful animals and full of knowledge and understanding. My family has always been good horse people. My Mother, who lives next door on her 140 acre ranch and has about 60 head of horses, is a zen master of horses. She is in her late 70's and she can still out-ride, out- rope and out-shoot about anyone you could mention. She hauls a lot of hay, too and still runs the ranch. Horses love my mother almost without exception. They see her as their mother, a kind and understanding provider. They follow her around the ranch like a bunch of big puppy dogs. But I digress... Bonneville Bruce On his 40 acre ranchette on the Sunnyslope, Idaho NP: Jimi Hendrix: BLUES: Electric Church Red House > > I don't understand why ANYONE would still be interested in beauty > pageants and > I don't understand why beauty pageants for young children aren't > banned as > some kind of child abuse. It's ironic and baffling that these things > proliferate in Bible-thumper areas. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:04:45 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: Chapter on Joni & O'Keeffe Book - Jeffrey Hogrefe Has anyone read the 1992 book: O'Keeffe The Life of an American Legend of Jeffrey Hogrefe ? Recently picked this up at a library book sale and noticed there is a whole chapter on Joni inside along with a few references to her in other chapters indicating her dating Juan Hamilton, Georgia's caretaker, for a brief period. It talks about her visit with O'keeffe at her home. Laura O. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 13:16:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc that reminds me of a thread we had going on a women's motorcycle e-list several years ago - some of us wanted to tie Barbie dolls behind the bikes and drag them through town. We never did it... was just a pipe dream. :) Em - --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Anita Tedder wrote: From: Anita Tedder Subject: Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc To: "'Joni List'" Cc: emzdogz@yahoo.com Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 1:22 PM So, who's going to Barbie Fest? I'm only going go to the one that Em's organises where you pull the heads off.......sounds like fun to me! Your sick mate Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 13:39:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies There was definitely a black-haired Barbie back then. My older sister had one - - the one with the zebra-stripe bathing suit. My younger sister and I didn't get Barbies until a few years later. We felt deprived because at first we got "Debbie" dolls. Those might have been a Canadian thing, but maybe not. Debbie dolls were smaller than Barbies. When Anne and I got Barbies, the Debbie dolls became their younger sisters. Back then, Barbies came with different hair colours. Mine had sort of honey-coloured hair (not brown, not blonde.) Nowadays I think they're all blonde. Then there was Midge. I think she had red or brown hair and freckles. Later, there was a black doll, but I don't remember if she had a different name or not. My youngest sister and my own daughter always used to tuck all their toys in before going to bed. My daughter had them all in bed with her and there was barely any room for her, with all the toys she wanted tucked in with her. I was never into fashion either. Sometimes I would buy something really nice because I just thought it was so pretty, but I would never end up going anywhere that needed that kind of clothes, so they would sit in the closet too, never worn. I'm still very blase about fashion. And yet my daughter is a complete fashionista - drives me crazy because she won't go outside unless she thinks she looks perfect. Trolls - we had some of those too, and they go in and out of fashion. We had some when my kids were small too and one of our cats used to love going in the kids' room at night and taking a troll or two out, as surrogate children, I think. - --- On Sun, 3/8/09, est86mlm@ameritech.net wrote: Bob, Yes, LOVED LOVED my Barbie's. I had a blonde Barbie and I think I had a black-haired one too (can anyone confirm there were black-haired barbies in the early '60s?). [...] Tucking all my dolls in bed was my nightly ritual before I got into my own bed. I did spend hours and hours with my Barbies. [...] I had an aunt that owned a dress store on Chicago's Gold Coast. Sometimes when she visited she would bring me dresses from her store.... expensive dresses/skirts/blouses. I hated them and never wanted to wear them. My mom never made me wear them so they just hung in my closet. By the time I decided I liked them afterall I would usually have grown out of them. Fashion was not a big deal in our house. [...] I also had Trolls.....crazy haired naked trolls. I loved my trolls as much as my Barbies. I did have clothes for the trolls. I wonder now if mom should have insisted I don't play with trolls so much as I look more like the trolls than my Barbies! Now there's a serious issue! haha __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 13:46:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc The really scary thing is, there probably ARE Barbie fests or conventions. I don't even want to google it, because it's too scary. - --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Anita Tedder wrote: From: Anita Tedder Subject: Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc To: "'Joni List'" Cc: emzdogz@yahoo.com Received: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 1:22 PM So, who's going to Barbie Fest? I'm only going go to the one that Em's organises where you pull the heads off.......sounds like fun to me! Your sick mate Anita _____ I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter . We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1375 of my spam emails to date. The Professional version does not have this message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 20:48:19 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies My sister had Barbie and all of that. I had a huge collection of He-Man action figures that i played with. Sometimes i would rob Barbie and make her marry He-Man, hehe. Oh the joy.... GARRET On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > There was definitely a black-haired Barbie back then. My older sister had one > - the one with the zebra-stripe bathing suit. My younger sister and I didn't > get Barbies until a few years later. We felt deprived because at first we got > "Debbie" dolls. Those might have been a Canadian thing, but maybe not. Debbie > dolls were smaller than Barbies. When Anne and I got Barbies, the Debbie dolls > became their younger sisters. > > Back then, Barbies came with different hair colours. Mine had sort of > honey-coloured hair (not brown, not blonde.) Nowadays I think they're all > blonde. > > Then there was Midge. I think she had red or brown hair and freckles. Later, > there was a black doll, but I don't remember if she had a different name or > not. > > My youngest sister and my own daughter always used to tuck all their toys in > before going to bed. My daughter had them all in bed with her and there was > barely any room for her, with all the toys she wanted tucked in with her. > > I was never into fashion either. Sometimes I would buy something really nice > because I just thought it was so pretty, but I would never end up going > anywhere that needed that kind of clothes, so they would sit in the closet > too, never worn. I'm still very blase about fashion. And yet my daughter is a > complete fashionista - drives me crazy because she won't go outside unless she > thinks she looks perfect. > > Trolls - we had some of those too, and they go in and out of fashion. We had > some when my kids were small too and one of our cats used to love going in the > kids' room at night and taking a troll or two out, as surrogate children, I > think. > > --- On Sun, 3/8/09, est86mlm@ameritech.net wrote: > > > Bob, > Yes, LOVED LOVED my Barbie's. I had a blonde Barbie and I think I had a > black-haired one too (can anyone confirm there were black-haired barbies in > the > early '60s?). > > [...] > > Tucking all my dolls in bed was my nightly ritual before I > got into my own bed. I did spend hours and hours with my Barbies. > > > [...] > > I had an > aunt > that owned a dress store on Chicago's Gold Coast. Sometimes when she > visited she would bring me dresses from her store.... > expensive dresses/skirts/blouses. I hated them and never wanted to wear them. > My mom never made me wear them so they just hung in my closet. > By the time I decided I liked them afterall I would usually have grown out of > them. Fashion was not a big deal in our house. > [...] > > I also had Trolls.....crazy haired naked trolls. I loved my trolls as much > as > my Barbies. I did have clothes for the trolls. I wonder now if mom should > have > insisted I don't play > with trolls so much as I look more like the trolls than my Barbies! Now > there's a serious issue! haha > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! > Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:07:10 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies Garret wrote: > I had a huge collection of He-Man action figures that i > played with. Sometimes i would rob Barbie and make her > marry He-Man, hehe. Oh the joy.... That reminds me of a joke... A little girl visits a shopping mall at Christmas, and visits Santa. He sits her on his knee and has the following conversation: Santa: "What would you like for Christmas, little girl?" Girl: "I want a Barbie and a GI Joe." Santa: "Oh, I thought Barbie comes with Ken?" Girl: "No, she definitely comes with GI Joe..... she fakes it with Ken." My mother-in-law was collecting Barbie dolls for a while for a project - I'm not sure if she ever finished it. She was going to dismember the dolls and put them into a large jar with some chillies and oil - Pickled Barbies. We have her "Pickled Beef" at home - a jar of plastic cows in oil ;o) Hell - trying (and failing) to work in a very noisy and disruptive office! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:09:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies That's a great point, Laura - I have to chuckle when I read about Patti's not letting her boys play with guns...I had a full aresenal as a kid and my son had his share as well. I always felt like I got the macho gun thing out of my system as a kid. Parents DO make all the difference; I was blessed with a terrific (though not perfect) set and feel like I have been a good one myself. I'm guessing that G.I. Joe came out around '65, but that's just a guess based on where I was geographically when me & my buddiesplayed with them. Bob NP: Ani, "Swan Dive" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:36:32 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garret" > Sometimes i'm told i'm too sensitive about the gay thing, even by > very > close friends, but for me that typifies exactly the point i am > trying > to make. I'm embedded in a country, culture, society that may not > be, > for the most part, explicitly homophobic, but it is dominated by > heternormative values. In very subtle ways i continue to be told > that > i'm just not good enough, just not the same. I really have only had one horrific experience of 'gay bashing' that happened many years ago here in Seattle and I don't want to go into it really. But there was just enough taunting and teasing in my childhood and teenage years to make me feel inferior in some ways and I think that has followed me all through my life even to this day. For the most part, this is a fairly easy place to be gay. The state, as an employer anyway, at least recognizes domestic partnerships between people of the same sex. Travis worked for the state and I am eligible to get a percentage of his pension if he pre-deceases me and can also get coverage under his health insurance plan. But the older I get and the longer I'm 'out', the more I find I have a voice in the back of my head that questions what people really think of me. Most of my co-workers are very pleasant and friendly towards me. But there is always this part of me that wonders what they say about me when I'm not around. I really don't like feeling this way. It bothers me that I may be being paranoid or suspicious of people, not giving them the benefit of the doubt. But I never quite lose the feeling of being an outsider. At lunch, I pretty much keep to myself, going out alone to get a bite to eat and walking around downtown. I do find that I do not feel this way so much around my younger co-workers. I don't get much of a vibe of disapproval from those in their 20s that work in my office and I find that very encouraging. They seem to take me as I am without having to make any kind of effort to do so. > > I believe we'll get there, but i wish it was today. > GARRET I'm with you there, Garret. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:55:35 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Barbie, toys, gender, culture njc - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mags" > > to be called a girl or a p*ssy , to be told you throw a baseball > like a girl, > these are meant as ultimate insults that cut to the core. as a > 'girl', this > tells me that is a bad thing. as a boy, i imagine that would hurt so > much. > It did. A lot. But I always managed not to let it show and try to feel I was superior, somehow above all that. Maybe that saved me from the physical abuse that so many had to endure. But inside it did hurt. A lot. Thanks for expressing that so well, Mags. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 15:20:55 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Muller" I have to chuckle when I read about Patti's not letting her boys play with guns...I had a full aresenal as a kid and my son had his share as well. I always felt like I got the macho gun thing out of my system as a kid. I seem to remember having holsters with some kind of metal cap guns in them when I was a very young kid. They may have been my older brother's and were handed down. Also, when I was approaching or in puberty, I had a James Bond 007 luger complete with plastic attache case that contained various attachments. Plastic things that could be spring-launched, mostly like small missiles, bullets & such. This may have been the result of a semi-conscious sexual attraction to Sean Connery, though, so I don't know that I can claim it as evidence of any kind of machismo. Connery was *the* James Bond as far as I'm concerned, hairy chest and all! Mark in Seattle who probably should shut up for now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:59:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies - now Bond I agree! and what I want to know is, why can't he be Bond NOW? Why couldn't they adapt one of the books to be about an older Bond? I would love it! Em - --- On Sun, 3/8/09, Mark Scott wrote:Connery was *the* James Bond as far as I'm concerned, hairy chest and all! Mark in Seattle who probably should shut up for now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:00:07 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: [njc] Now Barbie If Barbie had a voice, she'd sound like Jessica Rabbit. I think she'd say, "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 15:10:14 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: NJC - Bob and Barbies - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" > My youngest sister and my own daughter always used to tuck all their > toys in > before going to bed. My daughter had them all in bed with her and > there was > barely any room for her, with all the toys she wanted tucked in with > her. I had a whole line up of stuffed animals that I also did this with. > > Trolls - we had some of those too, and they go in and out of > fashion. Yep. Had one of those, too. Or my sister did or we both did. Not quite so gender specific so they were a bit more acceptable for a boy. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 19:22:38 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: Message from website Can anyone help Bradley? - -----Original Message----- it is driving me nuts i am try to find out the name of a song it was on a pbs doc on joni it was at the end. it about was about the life she led and coming bach to see her siter an nices with a ting of regret please help me thank you Name: bradley wieland email: bhw47@hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2009 #78 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------