From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #294 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 18 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 294 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- OzFest [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: first Joni? [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Song for a funeral [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Dream JoniCovers, now Left of Center Joni Covers [Mark-Leon Thorne ] RE: JMDL and the 90th Anniversary of the end of WW1 (NJC and long) ["Ani] Joni a hippie? ["Kate Bennett" ] Funeral, first and pics all Joni [Russell Bowden ] Re: Why (the name of Bob's local church) Sucks, njc [Laura Stanley ] RE: JMDL Digest V2008 #292 ["Mike Wood" ] RE: Joni a hippie? + Forest Gump [do9eatdo9@yahoo.com] Re: first Joni? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Song for a funeral ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Song for a funeral ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] margaret atwood njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] "All" religions, njc [Laura Stanley ] Preach, njc [Laura Stanley ] Re: funeral song [Laura Stanley ] the whole kit and caboodle, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Preach, njc [Vince ] Re: "All" religions, njc [Vince ] NJC [marie ] RE: "All" religions, njc ["Richard Flynn" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:04:29 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: OzFest Hi everyone. There is now a Yahoo group page for Ozfest as well as the JoniFest page on Facebook. The JoniFest Facebook group is for all thing JoniFest. You can discuss past and future JoniFests there and there will be information posted about upcoming JoniFests. An even has been posted for SoCal JoniFest and should appear on your profile page if you are a member. The Yahoo group serves much the same purpose but is specifically about OzFest. I will continue to post information on both for OzFest. There is also a link to the SoCal JoniFest Yahoo group on that page too. It's still too early to start taking bookings for OzFest but the quote stands and I have posted the menu for the event. Look for it in the Files section. I will be posting other files and photos soon. Although it is still too early to take bookings, I would like to create a database of people who are interested in coming so, I can get an idea of numbers. Remember, the number of people coming will determine the individual price for everyone. You can join the OzFest Yahoo group here : http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/OzFest2010 You can also send e-mails to all the members here: OzFest2010@yahoogroups.com Please think seriously about coming to OzFest. You still have 15 months to save and this JoniFest promises to be the JoniFest to beat all JoniFests. Lot of surprises in store. You'll be blown away. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:10:51 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: first Joni? That's easy, James. You mentioned it in your fist post - The World of Joni Mitchell. It's a nice compilation of her first four albums and includes tracks from her greatest album, Blue, I believe. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:28:12 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Song for a funeral Hi Arkay. My condolences to you. That's a tough one to deal with. I wish I had thought of playing a Joni song at my mother's funeral. My mother would have liked something uplifting. In that vein, I was thinking My Best To You from Taming The Tiger might be appropriate. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:45:07 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Dream JoniCovers, now Left of Center Joni Covers Oh yes, Joseph. I absolutely agree. Tracey really needs to record this or any other Joni song she likes but, See You Sometime would just be perfect. I love some of your other choices too. Rickie Lee Jones singing Sunny Sunday. I can really hear that. Barangrill for Tom Waits. That would be so cool. Mark in Sydney NPIMH See You Sometime - Tracey Thorn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:54:47 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Odetta - NJC Odetta Hospitalized Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 11:21AM Odetta, singer/songwriter known as "The Voice of the Civil Rights Movement," is seriously ill and in a New York hospital with kidney failure, according to a statement from her manager. Odetta apparently went to the Lenox HIll Hospital over the weekend for a simple IV treatment but had kidney failure Nov. 9 and is listed in critical condition. An active supporter of President-elect Barack Obama, Odetta is determined to sing at his inauguration in January, according to manager Doug Yeager. The full statement follows: Dear Friends of Odetta, On behalf of Odetta's adopted daughter Michelle Esrick and her niece Jan Ford (in California), I would like to share with you - Odetta's large extended family of brothers and sisters - the current health crisis in her life. On Saturday, she went into Lenox Hill Hospital for a check-up and IV nourishment. However, on Sunday evening she went into kidney failure, and we were told that the next 24 hours would determine if she would survive. Miraculously, she made it through that emergency, but is still listed in critical condition. I was on the road when she went in the hospital and rushed back on Sunday. Jan and I are thankful that Michelle was here and has been by Odetta's side every moment of this ordeal. Odetta believes she is going to sing at Obama's Inauguration, and I believe that is the reason she is still alive. She has a big poster of Barack Obama taped on the wall across from her bed. Her old heart has already outperformed and lasted far beyond the expectations of the heart specialists who treated her in January-March 2007 when she had her last health crisis while touring out West. Now compounded with the kidney failure, the doctors at the hospital are trying to do everything possible to stabilize her system and prevent the weakening of her other organs. They have her on dialysis now to rid the body of the toxic poisons that have built up, and it seems to be slowly working. She is sleeping a lot, but after a dialysis treatment and some food, she is coherent and talking. She is not in pain. We are told that she will be in the ICU Unit for at least another week, and that we'll just have to wait and see after that. All of you are well aware of Odetta's indomitable spirit. Accordingly, I wouldn't bet against her singing for Barack in January! If you would like to send a card, I know that she would love to hear from you (address of the hospital is below). Ms. Odetta Gordon Room # 719, 7th Floor ICU Unit LENOX HILL HOSPITAL 100 East 77th Street New York, NY 10021 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:51:22 -0000 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: RE: JMDL and the 90th Anniversary of the end of WW1 (NJC and long) Patrick It's so nice to feel so cared about! And how much I share the valuing of connections we have made through the list. And Lieve told me about bumping into you in New York!!!! How did that happen? Amazing. Having now been to Belgium and laid the wreath and plaque at Ramskappelle Military Cemetery for my great, great Uncle, Guillaume Batselier, I don't think words could come close to capturing how wonderful and emotional the experience has been. My Mother has been too ill to make the journey, so between Steph, Lieve and I, we made a 5 day film record of the trip, including the moment when I came to lay the wreath and plaque at an unknown soldier's grave. Some Belgian ex soldiers turned up at the same time as we did, and were paying their own tribute. As the sun set and the moon rose, the soldiers played the Belgian national anthem and saluted the long dead young men who have lain for 90 years and more in Ramskappelle. My Mother, when she was just 7 years old decided (for long and complex reasons)that she would never, ever cry about anything ever again. She has stuck to that - but yesterday, as the Belgian anthem echoed from her TV and we watched together the film of me laying of the wreath and the soldiers saluting, long held back tears streamed and streamed from her eyes. 'It's about time' I heard myself thinking. There are some photos at: http://www.bloggen.be/warbelgium/archief.php?ID=92847 Lots of love Anita - -----Original Message----- From: patrick leader [mailto:pleader@nyc.rr.com] Sent: 09 November 2008 20:30 To: Anita Tedder Cc: 'Lieve Reckers'; jonilist Subject: RE: JMDL and the 90th Anniversary of the end of WW1 (NJC and long) anita - i just now got a chance to read this. how deeply moving. i've returned once more to lurking, but every time i see you posting since last summer i'm reminded how much i've come to care for you and steph, and value the connections we've made through this list. and lieve! anita, the weekend of oct 10-12, robert holliston, who used to be on the list, was in new york, and on saturday (which was his birthday) we, among other entertainments, walked across the brooklyn bridge. and who should we run into near the brooklyn tower but... lieve! what a great gift. lieve, thanks so much for the picture... my best to both of you, and to steph as well. very fondly, patrick _____ I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter We are a community of 5.6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1061 of my spam emails to date. The Professional version does not have this message ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:13:55 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni a hippie? Hi Monika, These days people are more accepting of the fact that they were (or still are :~}) hippies. Back then it was word manufactured by the 'straight' media so people who were being labeled as such didn't like the word. 'Freaks', like Joni uses in the song Carey, was the term many hippies used at the time to describe themselves or their friends. Yes, Joni was considered the queen of them all but whether she accepted that title or not probably depends on what era she was being interviewed. It is an interesting concept, whether an artist or art reflects or defines a culture. I'd say Joni's music was both a reflection of & that it also helped define those times. I was at Woodstock & when I heard Joni's song I was amazed at how she nailed it & she wasn't even there. Kate >I don't know why I was thinking about this today, but did you consider Joni to be a hippie? Was she a part of the movement or did she just happen to be there? Which of her songs do you think best reflect the attitudes and beliefs of the counterculture? I remember reading an interview with Joni where she said in one way she wasn't a hippie at all and in another way, she was the Queen of the hippies. I think that suits her well. What do you think about the writer behind the song Woodstock as far as this topic goes? - - -Monika< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:22:10 -0500 From: Russell Bowden Subject: Funeral, first and pics all Joni Arkay, Deep sympathy for the loss of your Mother...I would suggest (and I'm not exactly sure why) Refuge of the Roads, Sweet Bird or The Sire of Sorrow..kinda out there, I guess, but I wouldn't mind having any of them heard at my last party. James, Like many others here...C&S would be my first choice as it was the one that opened my heart and mind to Joni. Willy, Thanks for the link to the pics....lots of screen savers there.... Love to all, Russ Mischief Managed _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows. connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:07:59 -0600 From: Arkay Adkisson Subject: Funeral Song thank you to everyone that has helped me find the best song. we all agree that the BSN version from the BSN album is the best. it will be played at the end of the funeral. my mom would have liked that. thank you all. arkay _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:35:12 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Why (the name of Bob's local church) Sucks, njc Hi Ya'll, There are plenty of Catholic priests who voted for Obama. Probably more voted for Obama then for McCain. But the ones who voted for McCain by their nature seem to be more loud and legalistic. The others seem to model themselves after the gentle voice of the wind that the bible calls God. One fanatic doesn't spoil the whole bunch... but it does make the news. As for how religion originated, I'm of the opinion the wind and anything else we can't see did. It was already there, and our little receiver selves picked up on it's effects and started communicating about it. There is a big link between art and religion. Both have to do with human perception and creativity. These are most beautiful when people who participate in them honestly realize their own size and imperfection. Out of humility beauty is born again and again and again. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:48:57 -0500 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: president elect Barack Obama, njc I saw Barack Obama and Michelle Obama on 60 minutes last night. I hope you can see it. one part brought tears to my eyes. We have a leader here who is special, honorable, noble, intelligent, smart, beautiful, and a great communicator. (I will take some more adjectives) One of my students said that she is standing to say the pledge now. He is here in our lifetime and in the lifetime of our children. We were able to vote for him. We have hope! This is something to celebrate for thanksgiving. Pray for this family? lOve, Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_1 12008 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:21:41 -0800 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: president elect Barack Obama, njc From: "Marianne Rizzo" <<< I saw Barack Obama and Michelle Obama on 60 minutes last night. I hope you can see it. >>> For anyone who missed it, here's a link to viewing online: http://tinyurl.com/5w2ucq Cassy NP: Joe Jackson - Invisible Man If Iraq's biggest export was broccoli, would we still be there ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:32:41 -0000 From: "Mike Wood" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2008 #292 Hi My answer to this one, and it is an answer that has worked (once, anyway) is Miles of Aisles. I am not sure it is possible to imagine so many great songs packed onto one cd ..or two LPs. And I think that a lot of the performances seem warmer than the original versions. After that, it will be so much easier to move onto the truly great studio albums (almost) all of them. - ----- - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:19:23 -0600 From: "James O. Phillips" Subject: first Joni? Folks, Have a question that would be appropriate to ask. If you were going to introduce someone to the music of Joni, what cd would you give them as a jumping point. It's a toughie that I've been pondering, and thought would be good question for this list. Best James O. Phillips Urbana IL USA http://www.myspace.com/mrjop1975 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/autoharpsenthusiasts/ http://onevoiceattitude.googlepages.com "I believe I've finally made it home, I believe that with me there is nothing wrong" I Believe I've Finally Made It Home written by Nona Hendryx, recorded by Labelle - ------------------------------ > Court and Spark was my first, at age 15, and it hooked me for life, > so I'd go with that one. > > Kate > > > http://xoetc.antville.org > Who Does She Think She Is? - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:47:00 +0700 From: do9eatdo9@yahoo.com Subject: RE: Joni a hippie? + Forest Gump Monika wrote: I don't know why I was thinking about this today, but did you consider Joni to be a hippie? >>> I don't really understand the term "hippie", but (from her look) during early years, she looked like a hippie. Anyway, wasn't the female character on Forest Gump based on the concept "a hippie"? OK, an "ill" hippie. She reminded me of Janis/Joan/Joni. Attitude of Janis, singing style of Joan (when acted as Bobbie Dylan), and look of Joni. Rian NPIMH : U2 - Hejira. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:34:17 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: first Joni? I'd give "Dreamland". It has enough of the hits to partially satisfy. Equally important is the variety, which I hope will confound a newcomer. My goal is to provoke a new listener to buy the back catalog. I also like the cover; it doesn't show The Artist As A Squating Dog. Jim L'Hommedieu From: "James O. Phillips"> Folks, Have a question that would be appropriate to ask. If you were going to introduce someone to the music of Joni, what cd would you give them as a jumping point. It's a toughie that I've been pondering, and thought would be good question for this list.> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:47:17 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Song for a funeral If you're set on an orchestral version of "Both Sides Now", iTunes has the version that appeared on the "DREAMLAND" CD. Jim L'Hommedieu >or if anyone knows where i can locate a copy of joni singing both sides now from the all star tribute that doesnt have the applause on it? that would be great.> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:42:55 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Song for a funeral Arkay, I'm sorry to read that your mother passed into the next world. You said, in part, >Can someone think of a nice song that could work for a funeral?> iTunes has the LADIES OF THE CANYON version of "The Circle Game". There's no applause on it. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu sample lyric: ======== Sixteen springs and sixteen summers gone now Cartwheels turn to car wheels thru the town And they tell him take your time it won't be long now Till you drag your feet to slow the circles down And the seasons they go round and round And the painted ponies go up and down We're captive on the carousel of time We can't return we can only look Behind from where we came And go round and round and round In the circle game ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:56:28 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: margaret atwood njc Mags said, >my fav is cat's eye, which reminds me so much of the meanness of girls that i grew up with and was tossed into more than one snow bank by.> That's so Canadian! Jim L'Hommedieu np: Green Grass & High Tides on iTunes while I catch up on two digests that didn't get through. http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2008.n292 http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2008.n293 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:01:55 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: "All" religions, njc Bob wrote: As for religions - of course Christianity is the most intrusive and bothersome in American culture, but all of them are centered around mythology and all of them believe that THEIR belief is the only way one can be saved, reach nirvana, ascend to heaven and what all. Hopefully one day they can find a way to coexist but the same history books you told me to check out tells me that it ain't necessarily so. Hi Bob, You sound angry with religion. Are you? Regarding what you say about "all religions," what about Hinduism? At the heart of Hinduism is the belief that there are many ways to reach heaven. Catholicism similarly teaches that God's salvation is universal, not limited to one religious group. Your generalization of Christianity as being intrusive struck me as funny because I have some very close Catholic friends who live in monasteries, cloisters, or are hermits. They are some of the most peaceful and loving people I know. They are also some of the happiest and interesting to talk with. One of them has spent her whole life in the cloister studying music. She's a musical genius and gets Joni. She's in her 70's but seems to be in her 40's. Mythology is a beautiful thing in my opinion. And really, even people who don't participate in a named religion have their own mythology because nobody really knows for sure what we are, etc. As humanity and religions evolve, the common goal of unity found in the idealism of many religions is becoming more of a visible reality. Thank God history doesn't always repeat itself. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:12:47 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Preach, njc T wrote: But here's the problem: Too many church-going people don't practice what they preach. LOL and too many non-church-going people practice preaching! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:19:59 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: funeral song Arkay wrote: please can someone think of a nice song that could work for a funeral? Hi Arkay, I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. May the angels lead her into paradise. How about Hejira? Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:29:40 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: the whole kit and caboodle, njc I was thinking about this phrase today & looked it up. It thought surely it was as British as "bangers and mash". Jim L'Hommedieu >Q] From Elma Brooks: “What is the source of the whole kit and kaboodle?” [A] Caboodle has a complicated history. It’s been spelt down the years in many different ways, and these days is usually listed in dictionaries with an initial “c”. It means a collection of objects, sometimes of people. It commonly turns up in the whole caboodle, meaning “the whole lot”. It’s recorded in the US from the middle of the nineteenth century. It’s probable that the word was originally boodle, with the phrase being the whole kit and boodle, but that the initial sound “k” was added to boodle for euphony. There are examples of similar phrases around the beginning of the nineteenth century, such as whole kit and boiling (or whole kit and bilin’) and whole kit and cargo, with the original very likely to have just been the whole kit — it’s recorded in this form in Grose’s Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue in 1785. It was also current in the US as the whole boodle from the 1830s. It seems that the whole kit and caboodle eventually won the linguistic battle for survival in the US because of that repeated “k” sound, though Dialect Notes in 1908 said that these other versions were still known from various parts of the country.> http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-who2.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:15:16 -0500 From: Vince Subject: Re: Sophie Scholl, Die Letzten Tage, NJC I may not have posted on this movie a few years ago - I may have - I know I did elsewhere - Sophie and Hans Scholl and Christoph Probst are a wonderful witness to the courage of those who opposed Hitler, for which they gave their lives - it is a very moving piece of cinema (if we are talking about the German film that was nominated for an academy award and if not, see it, and I have yet to see the documentary which is out there) Interestingly the judge who had the Scholls executed is also the judge who condemned to death hundreds of people in the July 20 1944 assassination plot which is the subject of Tom Cruise's new film next month - whether the Tom Cruise movie will just be about the military members of the Abwer or will also mention how many of the conspirators acted on Christian grounds and included clergy such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, I do not know. The Scholls and others in White Rose should always be remembered (as I understand they are in Germany) for their own courage and their reminder that it is possible to always take action - even when it costs one's own life. Vince On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 8:17 AM, wrote: > I just watched this brilliant German movie: Sophie Scholl The Final Days. I > just can't help recommend you all to check it. It's about the final days of > 3 members of White Rose movement during third reich. > > Though this is a wartime movie, there's no "harm". Harm means gunshot or > bloodshed. Only fine and moving dialogues. > > > > Rian > PS. Moni Kellerman appeared on my mind several times. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:43:20 -0500 From: Vince Subject: Re: Preach, njc As Bob and Jerry graciously pointed out, congregations and clergy were very involved in the gay marriage support actions of last Sunday. The United Church of Christ (home church to Pres-elect Obama) in 2005 endorsed marriage equality and is active, very active, in gay rights issues. http://www.ucc.org/lgbt/ One could have a happy time googling other church and religious bodies - Lutherans Concerned, for example, the Unitarian-Universalists, Reform Judaism, and find all kinds of moving examples of "church-going people" practicing what they preach - sometimes at great cost. The UCC in 2007 chose to let the Puerto Rican UCC Conference leave the UCC rather than back down on marriage equality. One of many examples across the board of people of faith. These things do not make the "news." What makes the news is what Fox puts on, on other selective organizations. I remind that just because one does not see it on tv or in the media does not mean it is not happening. We just don't always get in the media - what Jerry's church did was (I hope) news in St Petersburg but was not news anyone else so who knew until Jerry posted it? A lot of things taking place in the churches is not reported at all ever or is distorted because it does not fall into something the media can easily categorize. The sins of the Church and the sins of people of faith are many, We are not the only ones who do wrong, by any means. We are not the only ones who do right, by any means. People of faith are not all of one mind on anything either - anymore than everyone on the JMDL is of one mind on anything. Saying that people of faith do not practice what they preach is like saying Joni is a folk singer. Sometimes, yes. But is the one who calls Joni a folk singer doing so because they are not aware of the depth of the musical catalog and are just an observer with a few experiences? There is always more to know... always more to know... Vince PS A thread called "why religion sucks part ______" is to a degree a slap in the face to some of us. As would a thread entitled "why atheism sucks part ______." The person who posts either can expect a response. A thread entitled "here is an example of a goofy person" does not elicit the same response. But take it further - if one truly believes that abortion is murder, a slaughter, a holocaust of the innocent, then would not that same person have the right, nay, the duty, to deny the comfort of religion to those who support this holocaust? I suggest some good reading in Bonhoeffer's Letters and Papers from Prison, Ethics, and the Cost of Discipleship as well as the history of the Confessing Church in Nazi Germany which debated the issue of whether a Nazi party member, or anyone one who supported Hitler, was within in Church, could possibly be a believer. The struggle with understanding when a church must take the strongest possible action and when it is just a silly person being judgmental is not such an easy struggle. On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Laura Stanley wrote: > T wrote: > > But here's the problem: Too many church-going people don't > practice what they preach. > > > > LOL and too many non-church-going people practice preaching! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:01:06 -0500 From: Vince Subject: Re: "All" religions, njc Mythology is Biblical scholarship is a specific term of specific definition (read a short book by Bultmann) - and in that definition, yes, all religions/faith beliefs are by natuyre centered on their mythology. (Mythology is not a bad thing and it is not about false things - it is about how does one express that which cannot be expressed in relation of that of cosmic significance. A story can be mythological - not literally or historically "true" but yet an attempt to convey Truth. And music lovers, remember Jesus Christ Superstar, the exchange between Jesus and Pilate: Jesus I look for truth And find that I get damned Pilate What is truth? Is truth unchanging law? We both have truths Are mine the same as yours? Game set match to Pilate on that one - or at least Pilate via Andrew Lloyd Weber and Tim Rice) What we all screw up is what Bob is getting at - and see, I'd argue that Christianity (the Gospel of Jesus) has not a damn thing to do with salvation - - what it has to do with is how we live in this world - that to me is very clear in the four Gospels, as well as in Jesus' faith which we call Judaism as well as in other faiths - and the genius of Ba'hai which seeks to bring together the faiths of the world. As a Christian, however, let me cite something that is always overlooked: St Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, chapter 13 - which even Joni has set to music... look at the last words of that chapter: And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. As I read that (and more clear in the koine Greek): faith is less than hope hope is less than love thus faith - what we believe - is two steps less than love. Faith is less important than love. Love is the greatest thing, not the faiths we espouse. Love. So fuck the differences of our faiths or non faiths and get on with the love. Vince On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Laura Stanley wrote: > Bob wrote: > > As for religions - of course Christianity is the most intrusive and > bothersome in American culture, but all of them are centered around > mythology and all of them believe that THEIR belief is the only way one can > be saved, reach nirvana, ascend to heaven and what all. Hopefully one day > they can find a way to coexist but the same history books you told me to > check out tells me that it ain't necessarily so. > > > Hi Bob, > > You sound angry with religion. Are you? > > Regarding what you say about "all religions," what about Hinduism? At > the heart of Hinduism is the belief that there are many ways to reach > heaven. Catholicism similarly teaches that God's salvation is universal, > not limited to one religious group. > > Your generalization of Christianity as being intrusive struck me as funny > because I have some very close Catholic friends who live in monasteries, > cloisters, or are hermits. They are some of the most peaceful and loving > people I know. They are also some of the happiest and interesting to talk > with. One of them has spent her whole life in the cloister studying music. > She's a musical genius and gets Joni. She's in her 70's but seems to be in > her 40's. > > Mythology is a beautiful thing in my opinion. And really, even people > who don't participate in a named religion have their own mythology because > nobody really knows for sure what we are, etc. > > As humanity and religions evolve, the common goal of unity found in the > idealism of many religions is becoming more of a visible reality. Thank > God history doesn't always repeat itself. > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:02:30 -0500 (EST) From: marie Subject: NJC I was sent this link,B always a killjoy somewhere. Marie L http://howobamagotelected.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:25:56 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: "All" religions, njc "Prisons are built with stones of law, brothels with bricks of religion." - --Wm. Blake ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #294 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------