From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #230 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, September 29 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 230 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Sharon Update+ favorite character on Joni's songs ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Sharon Update+ favorite character on Joni's songs ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Another short note from Sharon [Catherine McKay ] Kyle njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: mellowing. . + a scorpio [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Favorite character [Monika Bogdanowicz ] All We Are Saying [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Songs not on albums [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Rainy Night House with the LA Express [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Hardly Strictly Bluegrass '08 [NJC] ["Richard Goldman" ] Re: sarah palin vlogs njc [marie ] Re: Songs not on albums [Garret ] JM likable and un- characters [Russell Bowden ] Re: mellowing. . + a scorpio ["T Peckham" ] Person flying, njc [Laura Stanley ] Re: Songs not on albums ["Mark Scott" ] RE: Songs not on albums ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Sharon Update+ favorite character on Joni's songs ["T Peckham" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 03:31:57 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Sharon Update+ favorite character on Joni's songs Yes I'd like to thank Sharon as well for putting a face onto one of Joni's most memorable of songs and adding some additional context to the song's lyrics. My favorite character in all of Joni's songs resides one track ahead of a strange boy and three tracks ahead of Sharon. Amelia (Earhart). "Like me she had a dream to fly". Aviation has always fascinated me, perhaps because it seems I have always been traveling, traveling, traveling. There is also the concept of freedom that aviation has enabled, an extension in a way of the automobile society that has come to define American culture. This need to be "busy being free" is omnipresent in Joni's music and juxtaposed initially with the entrapment of a romantic relationship, and in later years juxtaposed with the social commentary that often reflects some variation of declining liberties. Anyhow, Amelia did not allow fear to dictate her life, which I interpret the oft-stated refrain "Amelia - it was just a false alarm" as referring to - a warning that something is about to happen that fails to occur - in other words, allowing fear and anxious states to coerce you or derail you from pursuing what it is you love, and as such there are so many parallels to Joni's life in this regard. Amelia's courage is reflected in her own words - - "Please know I am quite aware of the hazards. I do it because I want to do it". She in essence pursued her life's aspirations and died in the noble pursuit of following her dreams. Joni, likewise, has become a living legend, not giving into the tribal mentality of producing music simply to garner short-lived celebrity and fame and fortune, but following her own wanderlust for emotional honesty and creativity in her music in the face of much adversity, as did Amelia in flight. - -- - -Mark in Florida On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:26 PM, wrote: > Bob wrote: > So....if you were touched by what Sharon shared with us, let me know so > that I can pass the good feelings along. > > > >> > > Tell her that she has a place in heart and mind of all Joni fans and that > "Sharon" is one of most favorite characters on Joni's songs. > > > Rian > PS. For reason unknown, my most favorite character on Joni's song is : > Edith. What's yours? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 04:01:16 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: will Joni ever mellow out? Everything Terra said, I could not have worded it better. I loved the interview with Tavis Smiley, I've watched it a couple of times. She appears renewed, vibrant, and she is burning brightly. She once again reveals her extreme sensitivity for all things which I think we all find admirable and yet comes across overall as being light-hearted and still having a good sense of humor. The color green, as in the outfit she was wearing (if I remember correctly) seems to compliment her own tones beautifully, and one senses that this is still a woman of heart and mind, who has witnessed a disturbing world which eventually silenced her for oh so very long, who is back to once again deliver her message that things are even further out of balance while humanity is hurriedly creating a certain dystopia, albeit in an even more humble and gracious manner. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Corey Blake wrote in part: > Hi Terra, Thanks for the response. > I thought Joni came across as incredibly warm, endearing and charming in > that interview. That doesn't take away from her strength and power of > character. That just makes her an actual human being who is capable of many > emotions and states of being, which was my intent in using it as an example > for Anon in how Joni is not always bitter and angry. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 02:00:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Sharon Update+ favorite character on Joni's songs I don't know if she's my favorite but there is something about Marcie that always got to me so deeply. And years later, with the knowledge we have of her life & her becoming pregnant, it makes sense why that song was so deep. Then on the other side of the emotional spectrum were Trina, Annie & Estrella who in a way, now that I think of it, were some of my biggest influences. I became, as well as lived among, them when I moved to California. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 04:01:23 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Re: njc, Palin on America and Russia I'm just hoping that one of her kids (read: political pawns) doesn't get sick at the last minute. I put NOTHING past the Rethugs, especially when they're backed into a corner. I truly feel sorry for her family. :-( Cynical Terra P.S. But wasn't Tina Fey brilliant on Sat. Night Live?! On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 5:14 PM, Kate Bennett wrote: > Hey Mark, I'd heard her handlers didn't want her to which is no surprise > seeing how she's not done so well lately with the interviews. The upcoming > VP debate should be a hoot! Kate > > >So why no Sarah? It will be interesting to see how she does in her > debate with Biden. > > Mark in Seattle< > - -- Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 10:04:24 +0100 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: Re: Will Joni ever mellow out? Anon Anon wrote: Don't get me wrong, I love Joni's music. However, she seems to me, from reading about her, to be basically a very temperamental, angry, bitter, demanding, hard, arrogant, difficult person... I'm sure she has a softer side underneath, and that side can be glimpsed in her songs, but that side of her seems to be overshadowed by her tough, difficult side.. Marion wrote: Does any of us really know what Joni is like? All we know is what she has been willing to share. She has appeared to be bitter and angry in some interviews and over some issues in her work, and most often, she seemed justified. She has also appeared to be soft and mellow, wise and vulnerable, weak and strong, in many of her songs. Michael has seen her as "offputtingly self absorbed" "warm" and with a "sense of humour". Monica sees her as "spiritually, emotionally, and creatively restless". Personally, I see a spirit of humanity and great love. So Joni could be described as: temperamental,angry,bitter,demanding,hard,arrogant,tough, difficult,soft,mellow, wise,vulnerable,weak,strong, offputtingly self absorbed, warm and with a sense of humour, spiritually, emotionally and creatively restless and a spirit of humanity and great love. All these descriptions of Joni sound just like me, you and everyone else! The difference is, Joni also has been blessed with an extraordinary gift for words and music. That's my two pence worth and I hope I have redeemed myself after last Sunday's gross out posts! Love without gross Anita _____ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for home users. SPAMfighter has removed 854 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 07:44:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: Sharon Update+ favorite character on Joni's songs I'm with you, Kate, it has always been Marcie for you. The imagery Joni created in that song is so lyrical and complete. Marcie remains vivid and alive in my mind after all these years. Jerry Kate Bennett wrote: > I don't know if she's my favorite but there is something about Marcie that > always got to me so deeply. And years later, with the knowledge we have > of > her life & her becoming pregnant, it makes sense why that song was so > deep. > Then on the other side of the emotional spectrum were Trina, Annie & > Estrella who in a way, now that I think of it, were some of my biggest > influences. I became, as well as lived among, them when I moved to > California. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:50:59 -0400 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: Will Joni ever . . . >she seemed>justified. She has also appeared to be soft and mellow, wise and vulnerable,>weak and strong, in many of her songs. good points Marion, she appears to be all those things mostly she is HONEST and REAL and that is one thing that I love about her she is open and raw and forward about her feelings and ideas ShE tAKES a StAND ShE tAKES a StAND many of the other people are thinking and feeling the same but joni speaks! speak joni! speak Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:12:43 +0200From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Will Joni ever mellow out Does any of us really know what Joni is like? All we know is what she hasbeen willing to share. She has appeared to be bitter and angry in someinterviews and over some issues in her work, and most often, she seemedjustified. She has also appeared to be soft and mellow, wise and vulnerable,weak and strong, in many of her songs. What she is like in her everydaypersonal life is known only to her and those close to her. I prefer torespect her privacy and refrain from speculating about the "real" Joni.Although I must admit I couldn't put down Girls like us, shame on me! I feltlike a peeping tom, but in my defence - I didn't really believe much of itor cared. It read like one of those magazines we have here in Europe alwaysreporting on the comings and goings of royalty. For those still interestedin the "real" Joni, her friend Sharon most certainly is a much better sourcethan the Weller woman. Just my opinion. Have a great weekend, Marion _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 05:58:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Another short note from Sharon - --- On Sat, 9/27/08, Bob Muller wrote: > Just passing along the dialogue, just got this note [from Sharon]: > > "Just a quick note to thank you and your internet > friends for jogging my memories of Joni. I have to reach > back some 60 odd years ( a very long time) and I have been > doing that these past days - that is a gift to me. I will > continue to think about my times with her over the years and > will share them when I feel ready and my thoughts are more > organized. I most certainly do not think of your interest as > an intrusion - on the contrary - I am both honoured and > humbled by it." > > Bob Doesn't Sharon sound like a wonderful woman and one you would want to know? People like Sharon are a gift to the world. > > NP: Alicia Keys, "If I Was Your Woman/Walk On By" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 09:04:04 -0400 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: mellowing. . + a scorpio and remember, she's a SCORPIO her well runs deep she experiences things deeply perhaps someone who knows more about astrology can tell us about scorpios I love scorpios three of my favorite people in the world are scorpios joni connie and bella (my neices. . 7 years old) From: Michel BYRNE Subject: mellowing Hi anon anon, just a quick comment. While i've found Joni CAN come across asoffputtingly self-absorbed and yes at times arrogant, these traits tend tocome out most strongly when she's on the defensive, in an interview situationshe finds antagonistic or superficial. In relaxed settings (I'm talking publicappearances, interviews here, as obviously very few people know what she'slike in private), her sense of humour and her warmth are very striking.Mich _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 06:01:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Kyle njc Batten down the hatches, Maine and Maritimes! Stay safe from Kyle. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 07:10:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: mellowing. . + a scorpio Right on. I absolutely love Astrology. I receive about 3 different horoscopes a day in email! I also do like the sign of Scorpio and I do think Joni fits that sign well. One of the coolest people I have ever known was a Scorpio. On the other hand, someone who I clashed deeply with was also a Scorpio. However, I don't live my days according to Astrology....I like it as a form of entertainment though I hope or wish it to be true. That is more or less due to my NEED for some sort of purpose in life, which I have yet to find. Anyway, here's a bit about Scorpio: "Scorpio is the astrology sign of extremes and intensity. Scorpios are very deep, intense people, there is always more then meets the eye. They present a cool, detached and unemotional air to the world yet lying underneath is tremendous power, extreme strength, intense passion and a strong will and a persistent drive. Scorpios have a very penetrative mind, do not be surprised if they ask questions, they are trying to delve deeper and figure things out and survey the situation. They always want to know why, where and any other possible detail they can possibly know. Scorpio's are very weary of the games that other people try to play and they are very aware of it. Scorpios tend to dominate and control anyone that lets them, or anyone that they find weak. The person that a Scorpio respects and holds close to them is treated with amazing kindness, loyalty and generosity. On the outside, a Scorpio has great secretiveness and mystery. This magnetically draws people to them. They are known to be controlling and too ambitious but only because they need control for this makes them feel safe." AND (because I love this stuff!) STRENGTHS Determined Emotional Powerful Passionate Exciting Magnetic CHALLENGES Jealous Resentful Compulsive Secretive Stubborn LIKES Truth Hidden Causes Being involved Work that is Meaningful DISLIKES Being taken advantage of Silly jobs Shallow relationships Flattery - -Monika - --- On Sun, 9/28/08, Marianne Rizzo wrote: and remember, she's a SCORPIO her well runs deep she experiences things deeply perhaps someone who knows more about astrology can tell us about scorpios I love scorpios three of my favorite people in the world are scorpios joni connie and bella (my neices. . 7 years old) From: Michel BYRNE Subject: mellowing Hi anon anon, just a quick comment. While i've found Joni CAN come across asoffputtingly self-absorbed and yes at times arrogant, these traits tend tocome out most strongly when she's on the defensive, in an interview situationshe finds antagonistic or superficial. In relaxed settings (I'm talking publicappearances, interviews here, as obviously very few people know what she'slike in private), her sense of humour and her warmth are very striking.Mich _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 07:14:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Favorite character Hmm, this is a difficult question because I enjoy all the characters in Joni's songs. She is a damn fine storyteller! I suppose I have a certain sympathy or understanding for/of Marcie. I also enjoy the tale of Harry's House though I doubt if they were real people I'd make an effort to befriend either of them. I understand them and find them fascinating as complex human beings who make mistakes but ultimately are not horrible people. They're just human, like you and me. Though there's not a character necessarily in this song, I really understand the sentiment of Cactus Tree. - -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 07:36:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: All We Are Saying I had tried getting this music documentary (complete with Joni footage!) from the library some number of months ago and the library didn't carry it. Yesterday, this film was playing on Showtime and I caught the last hour of it! It is also playing again so I am recording it in its entirety. It seems alright from what I saw. For those who haven't seen it, it seems to be a documentary talking to various musicians about the creative process and about music in general. Everybody and their mother is in it, including Joni. I caught Joni talking about how her songwriting has always revolved around losing something and then gaining something (as in giving up her daughter and then reconnecting with her and such). She also said her very early work (for example BSN) was an exploration of fantasy vs. reality. She was very articulate in the film if I may say so. You could tell from what the different musicians said, who was basically an idiot and who actually had some intelligence and insight. When some were talking, I was wishing they'd just shut up and play their music. Anyway, during the end credits Joni was showing off her paintings which was real interesting. I hope she's in it the first hour so I'm not recording it for almost nothing! - -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 07:42:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Songs not on albums Is there any song from Joni's career, which was not released on a studio album, that you think should have been put on a particular album? What song and what album? Why? - -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 09:36:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Rainy Night House with the LA Express http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LynWDu22Clg Ah yes....from my favorite concert performance of Joni's I would say. Someone tell me if this works because I am currently at work and the computer I am on does not have the latest Java edition to play this video (and I can't download anything at work). I'll check it out again at home but I have no idea whether it plays or not. - -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 09:43:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Songs not on albums Urge For Going definitely should have been on her first album in place of Pirate of Penance. It's a much stronger song and even fits in better with the album's theme. Just Like Me should have also been squeezed in there somewhere, either on STAS or Clouds. It's on the same level as BSN in terms of being a song that succeeds on all levels; musicality, lyrics that are sharp & accessible, and an instantly likeable and memorable. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Come On Up To The House" - ----- Original Message ---- From: Monika Bogdanowicz To: Joni people! Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:42:55 AM Subject: Songs not on albums Is there any song from Joni's career, which was not released on a studio album, that you think should have been put on a particular album? What song and what album? Why? - -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 10:21:37 -0700 From: "Richard Goldman" Subject: Hardly Strictly Bluegrass '08 [NJC] This year's Festival is next weekend, here in San Francisco, Friday Saturday and Sunday.It's another fantastic lineup, again, this year. Check it out here: http://hardlystrictlybluegrass.com/2008/artists.shtml And a lovely song has emerged: Warren Hellman, who funds the annual Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival in Golden Gate Park, got an MP3 file in his e-mail recently. Kathy Goll-Derstine, a student in a songwriting class led by veteran folkie Carol McComb, had written a song, "Joy for Free," about Hellman's annual FREE concert in the park. You can listen to it here: http://tinyurl.com/4rj5tl Lyrics include a definite nod to Joni: Joy For Free ( Blue Angels lyric refers to the fact that the Festival falls on Fleet Week here in SF, and those noisy militaristic Blue Angel jet planes that do acrobatics in the air above The City on the weekend: very intrusive....) Joy For Free (2nd verse in, or thereabouts... ) Get your buzz on the ganja browniesSold by the gal at the portapotties Blue Angels movin' through the skies Wish they could turn into butterflies ~Richard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 10:42:04 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: sarah palin vlogs njc Comedy is so subjective isn't it? Like music. I'd never heard of this woman before reading about her in the NYT but she is a professional who is making a living performing mostly in NYC. The low budget vlogs are part of this particular act. So Marie, I don't recall if you've posted here before. Tell us more about yourself & what brought you to this list & your connection to the music of Joni Mitchell. What is your favorite album? Song? Character? Marie >Leave comedy to the professionals. I could not give these much although, if I knew on which subway platform she "preformed", I would try to make the time to drop by and drop a little change in her cup. < ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:21:05 -0400 (EDT) From: marie Subject: Re: sarah palin vlogs njc Leave comedy to the professionals. I could not give these much although, if I knew on which subway platform she "preformed", I would try to make the time to drop by and drop a little change in her cup. Oh these are sooooo funny- check them all out when you have time but be careful about where you listen (i.e. work or around the youngsters) since some of it is R rated. Have any of you NYers seen her weekly comedy act? Kate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEW12XLUM7A ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:16:15 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Songs not on albums That's an interesting question Monika. I think some of the early unrecorded songs are fantastic. Maybe Play David Play or Eastern or Brandy Eyes on STAS? I think some of the songs, such as Dr. Junk or Born to Take The Highway, could have been great pop songs, but maybe would not fit on any of the albums Joni made. GARRET NPIMH - Jeff and Christina singing Born To Take The Highway at UK Jonifest On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Bob Muller wrote: > Urge For Going definitely should have been on her first album in place of > Pirate of Penance. It's a much stronger song and even fits in better with > the album's theme. > > Just Like Me should have also been squeezed in there somewhere, either on > STAS or Clouds. It's on the same level as BSN in terms of being a song that > succeeds on all levels; musicality, lyrics that are sharp & accessible, and > an instantly likeable and memorable. > > Bob > > NP: Tom Waits, "Come On Up To The House" > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Monika Bogdanowicz > To: Joni people! > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:42:55 AM > Subject: Songs not on albums > > Is there any song from Joni's career, which was not released on a studio > album, that you think should have been put on a particular album? What > song > and what album? Why? > -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 12:34:03 -0700 From: Russell Bowden Subject: JM likable and un- characters Gang, Nathan La Freneer (sp?) would be at the bottom of the list. Favorite is the copper proud-headed Queen Lizzie...oh, and the Botticelli BlackBoy Russ Mischief Managed _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn 10 hidden secrets from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:39:45 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Re: mellowing. . + a scorpio I'll confess: Scorpio here. :-D Terra On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > Right on. I absolutely love Astrology. I receive about 3 different > horoscopes a day in email! I also do like the sign of Scorpio and I do > think > Joni fits that sign well. One of the coolest people I have ever known was > a > Scorpio. On the other hand, someone who I clashed deeply with was also a > Scorpio. > However, I don't live my days according to Astrology....I like it as a > form > of entertainment though I hope or wish it to be true. That is more or less > due to my NEED for some sort of purpose in life, which I have yet to find. > > Anyway, here's a bit about Scorpio: > "Scorpio is the astrology sign of extremes and intensity. Scorpios are very > deep, intense people, there is always more then meets the eye. They present > a > cool, detached and unemotional air to the world yet lying underneath is > tremendous power, extreme strength, intense passion and a strong will and a > persistent drive. Scorpios have a very penetrative mind, do not be > surprised > if they ask questions, they are trying to delve deeper and figure things > out > and survey the situation. They always want to know why, where and any other > possible detail they can possibly know. Scorpio's are very weary of the > games > that other people try to play and they are very aware of it. Scorpios tend > to > dominate and control anyone that lets them, or anyone that they find weak. > The > person that a Scorpio respects and holds close to them is treated with > amazing > kindness, loyalty and generosity. On the outside, a Scorpio has great > secretiveness and mystery. This magnetically draws > people to them. They are known to be controlling and too ambitious but > only > because they need control for this makes them feel safe." > AND (because I love this stuff!) > > STRENGTHS > Determined > Emotional > Powerful > Passionate > Exciting > Magnetic > > CHALLENGES > Jealous > Resentful > Compulsive > Secretive > Stubborn > > LIKES > Truth > Hidden Causes > Being involved > Work that is Meaningful > > DISLIKES > Being taken advantage of > Silly jobs > Shallow relationships > Flattery > -Monika > > --- On Sun, 9/28/08, Marianne Rizzo wrote: > > and remember, she's a SCORPIO > > > her well runs deep > she experiences things deeply > > perhaps someone who knows more about astrology can tell us about scorpios > > > > I love scorpios > three of my favorite people in the world are scorpios > > joni > > connie and > bella (my neices. . 7 years old) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Person flying, njc This is cool. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ttz5oPpF1Js ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:59:12 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Songs not on albums - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Muller" > Urge For Going definitely should have been on her first album in > place of Pirate of Penance. It's a much stronger song and even fits > in better with the album's theme. To me 'Urge For Going' is a song about the Canadian prairie. Harsh, cold, winters that make one long for warmth and sun. I'm not sure how that fits in with the themes of 'I came to the City' and 'Out of the City and down to the Seaside'. Seems to me 'Pirate of Pennance' fits better. It's a more experimental song and seems to be set in the 19th century but it still fits the setting of the seaside. 'Urge For Going' is a beautiful song but I'm not sure where you would put it on any of Joni's albums. It kind of goes with 'River' and 'Little Green' but the 'Blue' album's references to Canada and winter are more about nostalgia and some tug at her heart to go back - 'It don't snow here', 'I'm gonna quit this crazy scene, oh I wish I had a river I could skate away on', 'I drew a map of Canada, Oh Canada...', 'There'll be icicles and birthday clothes'. Maybe it would fit on the 'Clouds' album in place of 'Roses Blue' (not my favorite Joni song). As it is, 'Songs of a Prairie Girl' seems the best place for it even though it is a compilation of material from other albums, spanning a big chunk of her career. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:19:26 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Songs not on albums Of course, Urge for Going was scheduled for Blue: Joni Mitchell Original "Blue" album. "Original Coupling" Reprise Records RST 2038 B Digitally mastered direct from the Magtec Reel Tape. In early March of 1971, the masters for Joni Mitchell's latest project, an album called "BLUE", were sent by Reprise to their record plants, and at least a few reel to reel copies of the album were recorded with the following song list: 1 Carey 2 Little Green 3 A Case of You 4 Hunter 5 Blue 6 California 7 My Old Man 8 Urge For Going 9 This Flight Tonight 10 River But word came down before many reels were produced that Joni had decided to recall the master tape and substitute 2 new songs for 2 of the older ones. The 2 songs deleted were "The Urge For Going", which appeared in 1972 as the B-side to "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio", and "Hunter (The Good Samaritan)", which has yet to appear on any record. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Mark Scott Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:59 PM To: Bob Muller; Monika Bogdanowicz; Joni people! Subject: Re: Songs not on albums - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Muller" > Urge For Going definitely should have been on her first album in > place of Pirate of Penance. It's a much stronger song and even fits > in better with the album's theme. To me 'Urge For Going' is a song about the Canadian prairie. Harsh, cold, winters that make one long for warmth and sun. I'm not sure how that fits in with the themes of 'I came to the City' and 'Out of the City and down to the Seaside'. Seems to me 'Pirate of Pennance' fits better. It's a more experimental song and seems to be set in the 19th century but it still fits the setting of the seaside. 'Urge For Going' is a beautiful song but I'm not sure where you would put it on any of Joni's albums. It kind of goes with 'River' and 'Little Green' but the 'Blue' album's references to Canada and winter are more about nostalgia and some tug at her heart to go back - 'It don't snow here', 'I'm gonna quit this crazy scene, oh I wish I had a river I could skate away on', 'I drew a map of Canada, Oh Canada...', 'There'll be icicles and birthday clothes'. Maybe it would fit on the 'Clouds' album in place of 'Roses Blue' (not my favorite Joni song). As it is, 'Songs of a Prairie Girl' seems the best place for it even though it is a compilation of material from other albums, spanning a big chunk of her career. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:26:42 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Re: Sharon Update+ favorite character on Joni's songs Thanks, Rian, for starting another interesting discussion. Kate, I'm envious of (and would love to hear more about) your California experience of that time. Mark, evidently you and I were separated at birth. ~grin~ In '76 I was 20, singing/playing in a full-time country-rock/bluegrass/swing band, and *Hejira* was a revelation. Joni had been evolving with every album, but this one really snuck up and knocked me out, and, for a very long time, knocked *For the Roses* out of its "favorite" spot for me. (It also made me start to chafe at doing mostly Linda Ronstadt, Gram & Emmylou, and Dan Hicks & His Hot Licks songs, as much as I loved that stuff as well.) "Amelia" grabbed me the hardest from the first listening---remember when people would actually sit in a room together and play a new RECORD (both sides!) out in the air on full-range speakers?---" . . . and the road leads cursed and charmed . . ." particularly resonated, articulating my tug of war over being out for a week or two successfully doing what I loved, and coming back home to be with the love of my life. (So I thought . . . ha!) After a couple days of contentment, there would always come the itch to get back out there, back to "work." I've been singing and playing "Amelia" (on piano!) at home by myself ever since then, and the resonance has only deepened, and evolved, and become revelatory in ways I couldn't have imagined in that other lifetime, and I expect it will continue to do so. Thank you, Mark, for so eloquently adding to my appreciation and understanding of this brilliant, timeless song by sharing what it means to you. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ My favorite character? Michael from Mountains ;-) Terra On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 2:31 AM, Mark Angelo wrote: > > " . . . *Anyhow, Amelia did not allow fear to dictate her life, which I > interpret the > oft-stated refrain "Amelia - it was just a false alarm" as referring to - a > warning that something is about to happen that fails to occur - in other > words, allowing fear and anxious states to coerce you or derail you from > pursuing what it is you love,* and as such there are so many parallels to > Joni's life in this regard. Amelia's courage is reflected in her own words > - "Please know I am quite aware of the hazards. I do it because I want to > do > it". She in essence pursued her life's aspirations and died in the noble > pursuit of following her dreams. *Joni, likewise, has become a living > legend, > not giving into the tribal mentality of producing music simply to garner > short-lived celebrity and fame and fortune, but following her own > wanderlust > for emotional honesty and creativity in her music in the face of much > adversity, as did Amelia in flight." > * > -- > -Mark in Florida > > > Rian > > PS. For reason unknown, my most favorite character on Joni's song is : > > Edith. What's yours? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:05:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Doherty Subject: Tim sent you a friend request on Tagged :) If you can't see this email please click here[TABLE NOT SHOWN][IMAGE] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:30:50 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Paul Newman on the back of a cartoon coaster, and more..... Bon soir, Joniami(e)s! Running behind the times, I'm just settling down in to the clickety-clack of reading the Sunday paper (the Hartford Courant, "America's oldest continuously published newspaper" and the main CT rag), and of course Paul Newman is on the front page and is here, there, and everywhere. (The photo on the front page would raise your mother and my mother up from their peaceful rest, Muller!) We are all still in shock (over his passing, even though we knew he was ill) and awe -- extreme awe -- at his life and now his HUGE legacy. At the wedding reception yesterday, my BFF and MotG (acronyms for you, CoT!) (although Smurf calls it MOG, I prefer MotG) reacted with VERY loud dismay and almost fell over (momentarily unable to get a good grip on her grief...we had to steady her) when someone mentioned the sad news. Having been totally immersed in all the wedding stuff, she hadn't heard. Anyway, back to the subject line: Bob Englehart is our regular cartoonist who, imo, is really good, and this is what he has for today: http://blogs.courant.com/bob_englehart/ Awwww! Funny, there are hardly any mentions in all the articles about his Hole in the Wall Gang camps. But I learned (or remembered) a few things from the articles: !. He was a CT delegate for Eugene McCarthy at the 1968 DNC, and there was some talk that he would run for Senate against (choking sound here) Lie....Lieber....ach du LIEBERMAN in 2004. 2. Yesterday when I posted, I forgot all about Slap Shot! My sons & their buddies love that cult hockey classic, and MfM even has a Chiefs' jersey that I bought him at a hockey tournament in Montreal a few Easters ago. (Note to Michael from Laurentide Mountains: I remember reading a post of yours the day after when you wrote something like "from a sunny Montreal on Easter Sunday." Merde. Had I only known you were there! We could have had some milk and toast and honey together in Morning Montrealtown!) 3. Speaking on Jeanine Basinger, noted film scholar from Wesleyan, I read this: "Basinger, whose latest book is "The Star Machine" -- an examination of the star-making studio system (TIC! machinery) -- says Newman managed to survive when that movie-making machinery (AHA! *There's* the Joni word!) collapsed in the late '50s and early '60s. "He represents the last of the studio-developed great stars," she says. "He kept going on his own terms and defined himself by and for himself and made it work." Sound like someone else we know? 4. There were lots of great tributes/quotes, which you have probably seen already in other publications. Robert Redford, Martin Scorcese, etc., but here's a local one you may not see: "It's almost unfathomable that one human can have that much reach. But the interesting thing is, when you take all that away, he's just a normal guy.....He loves the notion of Americana and America, in the sense of that Norman Rockwell time." -- Chef Michel Nischan, who opened a restaurant next to the Westport Country Playhouse (that Paul and Joanne helped revive and save, after some people threatened to pave over paradise and make it a shopping mall.) 5. I had almost forgotten that he lost his 28-year old actor son Scott to a drug and alchohol overdose in 1978. Losing a child could cause a person to shut down, but Paul went on to create the Scott Newman Foundation, based at the U Calif. School of Public Health, later renamed to the Scott Newman Center...an educational organization aimed at preventing drug abuse. It is allied with yet another Newman charity, the Rowdy Ridge Gang Camp, which works with abused women. Wow. Don't it always seem to go...... I was heartened to see David Eoll and Gene post about Paul Newman, too, in the latest digest. There is always comfort in sharing sorrow. Thank you. Reporting live from CT, broadcasting tower waving for you, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:17:13 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, How Paul Newman Helped Ned Lamont POLITICAL CONTENT I'm going to ignore Bonnie and Sippie's advice right now ("woman be wise, keep your mouth shut, don't advertise your man") and share this with any interested people at this party. How Paul Newman Helped Me Ned Lamont September 28, 2008 We were way down in the polls and I was busy leaving messages on answering machines when a young volunteer came bounding into my rabbit warren and announced breathlessly, " Paul Newman is on the line." A little skeptical, I shot back that I was on the line with Vladimir Putin so hold all calls, but our savvy volunteer suggested that this was a call worth taking. "Thanks for calling, Mr. Newman," I parried. "Cut the Mr. Newman crap, it's Paul," was his opening line  unmistakably the real deal. Warming up to the task, I got right to the ask  ads, robocalls, direct mail, fundraisers, autograph. He said that he was a little hesitant since he had done a little work for John Kerry and that a WSJ blog had immediately called for a boycott of Newman's Salad Dressing, which funded his Hole in the Wall Gang charity. But Paul never sat on the sidelines and he later said, "I hate those things, but let's do the automatic telephone call." Before you can say "Cool Hand Luke" we had drafted up a short script, which he said was crap and he would do his own. He wrote something up and then called around Connecticut, pretending to be a robocall and judging the reaction. He called back with the results: a couple of no answers, two answering machines, and one guy who shouted, "Hey Marge, there's some kook on the phone pretending to be Paul Newman." I sympathized, noted that I had developed a close personal relationship with hundreds of answering machines around the state, and he said OK. He liked writing his own scripts, and later did a TV ad where he called me "spunky," not senatorial, just spunky, and toward the end of our campaign he ad-libbed a radio ad where he accused Joe Lieberman of sneaking off with his Ned Lamont for Senate lawn sign in the back of [a] Lieberman for Senate Hummer. Let's make sure that his Hole in the Wall Gang charity does not suffer from Paul's indiscretions. To me, Paul was Cool Hand Luke, challenging the good ol' boys and the conventional wisdom, with a delighted twinkle in his eye. We'll miss you, Mr. Newman. ***** Ned Lamont was the Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate in 2006, and lost to you-know-who. (Please don't make me say his name again or I'll start roaring like forest fire!) You can see Paul Newman's 30 second ad here (the second video down on the left): http://myleftnutmeg.com/ Also note the CT highway sign on the top left that says: Connecticut Welcomes You Birthplace of George W. Bush We Apologize Ha. Do you think this can be real? (It's not, but I wouldn't mind too much if my state income tax dollars went to this sign.) Peace, Patti P., who just might have met Paul Newman at Lamont's victory party that night if Deb Messling hadn't told me we lost (no blame, mon amie, just remembering how I heard it first from you, which was probably the best and most gentle way...although I still can't take it, can't seem to believe it. SIX years? And now he's Sarah Palin's main tutor and.....) Note to self: STOP! _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:36:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Rainy Night House with the LA Express Oh, what a drag. Well, still a good song and all but I was hoping for live footage! All I saw while at work on the computer (without the latest Java edition to actually play the video) was a picture of Joni from her concert with the L.A. Express. There are different songs (with live footage) from a particuylar concert floating around which I absolutely love. I saw that one photo, got excited, and posted it on the list without being able to see it myself until I got home (which I now see there is no live footage). - -Monika - --- On Sun, 9/28/08, Cassy wrote: Hi Monika, The song plays accompanied by a slide show of stills. No actual video clip.. Warmly, Cassy If Iraq's biggest export was broccoli, would we still be there ? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monika Bogdanowicz" To: "Joni people!" Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:36 AM Subject: Rainy Night House with the LA Express > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LynWDu22Clg > Ah yes....from my favorite concert performance of Joni's I would say. > Someone > tell me if this works because I am currently at work and the computer I am > on > does not have the latest Java edition to play this video (and I can't > download > anything at work). I'll check it out again at home but I have no idea > whether > it plays or not. > -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 01:09:57 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Palin on America and Russia, then "McCain: Joker's Wild" Kate in CA wrote: Wow synchronicity strikes again Patti (since we're both on digest I suppose we both missed each others comments made at the same time!) Funny to hear the Chronicle also made that comparison between the two! Kate B *** Yet another Joni high-five (You are so lucky to have high-fived Joni! Tested and blessed!) across the fruited plain and purple mountain majesties, from sea to *shining* sea, Kate! And it wasn't just the Chronicle...you know there may be more. My son MfM, and many others made the same comparison. There's even a you-tube w/ Miss Teen South Carolina's voice super-imposed over SPs but I don't have time to find it right now. I have to take my baggage off the carousel (my trunk) and get ready for the work week. (I hate Sunday nights because le bon weekend is over. Phoey!) The next few weeks are going to be WILD ones, so let's hold on to our hats (Joni berets) and each other, and hope (and work) for the best -- OBAMA! xo, pp P.S. Bo, applause applause on what you wrote. In part, here: Switching gears to last night's debates. Jon Milton wrote, in "Paradise Lost": "Yet from those flames No light, but rather darkness visible." Darkness, darkness, no color, no contrast. Where some have found their paradise, other's just come to harm...enough harm already! Did I really hear him say his budget would be all for defense and vets? Of course the vets, but nothing about education or health care or the middle class or.....(oh, my head is in my hands!)? Maybe it's paranoia, maybe it's sensitivity, but I thought he looked like he was ready to BLOW! Blinking, blinking, not looking at Obama at all. Seething with rage and military madness, imo. Check this out: http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=22635&source=newsletter I'm ready for the Zen President over the Trickster, indeed. Enough! _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:36:16 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Sharon Update+ favorite character on Joni's songs Hi Terra & everyone. You may have asked this before or someone did so I'll try & give the short version. I landed in California from the east coast in the early seventies. It felt like home to me the moment I arrived (after my own Hejira across the USA) & I've been here ever since. First to San Francisco then down to Santa Barbara which is where I really felt home although as cities go I do love SF. SB was a small town in those days & I met some people who invited me to move up to a piece of land where many were 'getting back to the garden'. We grew much of what we ate, made much of what we wore & music was central to our existence. Many of us wrote songs & we all played & jammed together every night after dinner. It was a magical time of my life & in some ways very parallel to the Laurel Canyon scene except that we lived in a community rather than on separate properties & the culture we created didn't include drugs or alcohol, & we all practiced mediation. Unlike the LC crowd, none of us were famous although many famous people came to visit us. It didn't last beyond the decade but that is a story about the size of a novel. Kate Terra >Thanks, Rian, for starting another interesting discussion. Kate, I'm envious of (and would love to hear more about) your California experience of that time. Mark, evidently you and I were separated at birth. ~grin~ < ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 08:36:07 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Songs not on albums I would have loved a recording of The Good Samaritan on Blue but I don't know what it could have replaced! I was thinking This flight tonight, but then again, no! It seems to me that she used some of the music of TGS for TFT instead, though. They sound similar to each other. Marion ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #230 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------