From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #216 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, September 17 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 216 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: swing states - njc [David Eoll ] With June Comes the Memory, njc [Laura Stanley ] Joni Treasure [Patti Parlette ] Re: Was Shawn Colvin Loudon's "Aphrodisiac?" (NJC) [Jeannie ] Re: Joni Treasure ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: talk to me, talk to me, njc U.S. Politics ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni Treasure ["Cassy" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:11:44 -0400 From: David Eoll Subject: Re: swing states - njc Actually the same kind of phenomenon is occurring even after slavery. Because of the electoral college, there is no disincentive for voter suppression. Because a state gets the same representation in the electoral college no matter how many people actually vote. So, hypothetically, if 2 people in Ohio vote for McCain and 1 votes for Obama, and everyone else stays home, then McCain gets 20 electoral votes. For 2 lousy voters. The South actually gained an electoral advantage from the end of slavery. An advantage that accrued solely to the whites. After slavery was abolished, all the former slaves who used to count as only 3/5 of a person in the census, were now free and counted as a full person. Which meant more Representatives in the House and, consequently, more delegates in the Electoral College. But, for the most part, black people still couldn't actually vote, a situation that didn't change until the 1960s. Didn't matter. A state gets its alloted number of electors no matter how many people actually show up to the polls. So white southerners were even more over-represented than before slavery was abolished. And voter suppression, particularly among minorities, continues today. And there is no penalty for it, electorally. Respectfully, David PS I understand that the establishment of the Electoral College had other motivations beside the one I mention here, but propping up the South's "peculiar institution" was one of them. T Peckham wrote: >> David wrote: >> >>>>Personally, I think the whole system is crap and should be done away with >>>>in favor of a national popular vote. One Person, One Vote. The Electoral >>>>College is actually, at least partly, a product of slavery. In 1789 the >>>>white population in the South was far outnumbered by the population of the >>>>North. The Electoral College was a way for them to get credit for 3/5 of >>>>their black inhabitants (who vastly outnumbered whites at the time) in terms >>>>of representation in presidential elections (and in the House of >>>>Representatives) without having to let them vote. Its a disgrace. Get rid >>>>of it. >>>> >>>>Respectfully, >>>>David >>>> >>> >>>I couldn't agree more. > > > And thanks for your cogent explanation and analysis. Reading it is the > closest I've come to almost understanding it! > Terra ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:58:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: With June Comes the Memory, njc WOW!!! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=77AUOrvbvlQ&feature=related Can I make a request? Every Third Day Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 03:48:25 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: Joni Treasure Notre Smurf wrote: I will tell you that the most treasured Joni possession I have is the precious soundtrack she has contributed to my life. For about 36 years now my inner life has been immeasurably enhanced by the Joni words and melodies that float in and out of my head. *** Why, whatever do you mean? Words and melodies that float in and out of your head? C'est bizzare, cheri! I'm trying to relate.... (tee hee...) (But don't you mean "inside and outside" your head?) Smurf, encore une fois: "Also, memories of J-fests and the friends I've met here are treasured." Absolument! And I do, cherish you. And Catherine, and you know there may be more. Love is touching souls, and shirley yu! "Lately I have been loving the saying that goes something like this: "The important things in life are those you can hold in your heart, rather than in your hand." I could drink a case of you to that! And in the Jonidiomatic and Beatles logic that goes on in my head: And in the end the love you take, is equal to the love you make. xo, pp, who was replying to Debra's excellent post (Go Obama!) but started fading in her suburban room and had to put it in her draft box, and who also wants to hug Donna B. for surviving the storm and re-send her my Wally Lamb post but that will have to wait until tomorrow...a new day, a new way to carry on. NPOMTV: Rachel Maddow, who makes an awful lot of sense to me _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn 10 hidden secrets from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:17:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Re: Was Shawn Colvin Loudon's "Aphrodisiac?" (NJC) I think the song's written around Shawn. Jeannie - --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Steve Harper wrote: > From: Steve Harper > Subject: Was Shawn Colvin Loudon's "Aphrodisiac?" (NJC) > To: joni@smoe.org, "Bob Muller" , "Bob Muller" > Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 1:25 PM > Hallo, JMDLers...been getting into Loudon Wainwright > III's stuff lately..... > > There's something I've wondered ever since I first > heard one of his songs, > "Aphrodisiac," from "Therapy" (1989). > > I am wondering if anyone else thinks, as I do, that the > narrator's (Loudon's) > affair is with none other than Shawn Colvin? > > The details all seem to fit, as far as I can tell. A > meeting in London, > perhaps, in the mid to late 80's. > > Here's the song, "Aphrodisiac": > > "He was checking her out at the sound check > She was sounding and looking real good > Kind of a cross between Edith Piaf > and Little Red Riding Hood. > She was young enough to be his daughter > And old enough to have been around > Good enough to blow him off of that stage > And good enough to bring the house down. > He said, "You must be my opening act" > She said, "I've heard a lot about you" > They made small talk about her direct box > And all his record company blues. > She must have gotten her dress sense > From outta some comic book > But he could see she was ambitious > Underneath the waif-like look. > > On the showbiz merry-go-round > It's so hard to snag the ring > But there she was just startin' out > A future next big thing. > She was bound to be a critic's darlin' > So he knew what she was gonna go through > At first it feels like the tunnel of love > But it can turn on you. > And then you're runnin' a gauntlet > That can seem like a marathon > The next thing you're having your first come-back > And you're wonderin' where you'd gone. > Well, he didn't need a protege > He'd seen "A Star is Born" > But he was sorely tempted > More than slightly torn. > > That night she got three encores > And he got one, but took two. > They had dinner back at his hotel > And breakfast in bed, too. > You know talent is an aphrodisiac > And they don't stock it on the shelves > And they say opposites attract > But some people just love themselves. > They said goodbye in the lobby > The one-night stand had been enough > He felt a little bit tender > She'd been a little bit rough. > But it hadn't been lust, it wasn't real love > They weren't even hardly lonely > It was more like lookin' for somethin' he'd > lost > And her morbid curiousity." > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone > with Windows Live. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:52:36 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: Re: Joni covers (from UK Guardian) + Retro Covers Volume 30 contest: (you win a "hurrah" from me!) Now don't cheat by looking it up!!!!!! Which JM song was covered by Fairport Convention early in their career in the 70s? B from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:54:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: talk to me, talk to me, njc Good for you Laura for asking questions. We're in a campaign season so its promises promises opportunities promises. The first step is to do your own research; nobody can do that for you. Look at how each of these candidates has performed- in both actions & words. Their words should be judged within the time they were spoken. In other words, if someone stood up against the war when it was unpopular to do so politically, even if they couldn't cast a vote, & you were against the war, then they get points. ETC. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:59:12 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni Treasure The opportunity to meet her & high five her impossibly talented hand (thanks Les) The album cover of her first album (thanks Jim) The 2 jonifests I've attended (thanks Ashara) & everyone I've met there (thanks everyone) Kate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:10:24 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: talk to me, talk to me, njc U.S. Politics Beautiful post Debra. I agree with everything you said. Thank you. Kate >I've tried to not be anti-Repub, Laura, but it's hard to avoid talking about the Repubs when what they're doing is the reason most people are looking closely at Barack. The Obama campaign is stressing the positive... and that filters down even to his volunteers... < ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:40:23 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: NJC - Costello tapes with Cash, Mellencamp, Kristofferson and Norah Jones I wish Elvis Costello would add Joni to his list of subjects to interview. I can do some wishful thinking can't I? Cassy September 16th, 2008 - Last night's taping of "Spectacle: Elvis Costello with.," which featured John Mellencamp, Rosanne Cash, Kris Kristofferson and Norah Jones, was a departure from the interview/performance format of previous installments starring the varied likes of Elton John and Smoky Robinson. Rather, it took on the nature of the Nashville "guitar pull," where a panel of songwriters sits around swapping songs and stories. As Cash noted, the set-up likely originated at her father Johnny Cash's house, where legendary songwriters and performers like Bob Dylan, Graham Nash, Tammy Wynette and George Jones, and Kristofferson would drop by for such informal gatherings ("I was scared to death then and I'm scared to death now!" said the ever-unassuming Kristofferson). Costello didn't mean to turn the evening into a tribute to Cash's father, but it was inevitable that Johnny Cash was a big part of it. Group sing-alongs on his classics "I Still Miss Someone" and "Big River" were high points, and Costello-a remarkably engaging and insightful talk show host-was very funny in suggesting a second generation of The Highwaymen, the country music superstar group made up of Kristofferson, Willie Nelson, and the now deceased Cash and Waylon Jennings. After all, Kristofferson was present along with Cash's daughter, and Jones, besides her Grammy-winning pop albums, fronts a country band named after Nelson--the Little Willies. "John and I can arm-wrestle for the Waylon role!" Costello declared, then sparked a friendly banter with Mellencamp regarding critical comments Costello made in the late 1970s regarding the then Johnny Cougar's stage name-Mellencamp having lived in London briefly during the height of British punk rock and the start of Costello's career. A contrite Costello then quickly conceded how he'd be the last one to question a fellow rocker's stage name, since he himself works under a stage name--as did the likes of his Brit contemporaries Johnny Rotten, Sid Vicious, the Damned's Captain Sensible and the Clash's Joe Strummer. Clearly, Costello was as thrilled to have Mellencamp on the show as Mellencamp, a huge Costello fan who seemed to watch him in awe, was to be there. Noting how Mellencamp had been "abducted" into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this year, Costello said that both he and Mellencamp both started out as rock musicians, yet would be performing together here as acoustic singer-songwriters. He also hailed Mellencamp's new "Life, Death, Love, And Freedom" album as "one of his very best" and credited producer T Bone Burnett, who has produced Costello recordings as well. "It's very rare that you make a musical friend-the record was made in-between jokes!" said Mellencamp of "Henry," returning conversation to stage names since Burnett was born Joseph Henry Burnett. "I've known him longer than both of you and never knew that!" interjected a bemused Kristofferson. And that's the way it went. Very loose and a lot of fun, and in the case of Cash, a great relief. She seems to have fully recovered from having brain surgery last year; she looked and sounded great, and a high point of the night was the first performance of a new song she has since written with Costello and Kristofferson, "April Fifth." The only trouble she had came after Mellencamp sang "Small Town," prompting her to pause a moment before saying, "I can't believe I have to follow that song! I really love it." The evening ended perfectly with a group-sing on Kristofferson's immortal "Me and Bobby McGee" and "Big River"-though the program may be sequenced differently when it airs. Mellencamp, by the way, also sang "Rain on the Scarecrow" and "Longest Days." The series, meanwhile, is set to premiere later this year on Sundance Channel in the U.S. - --jim bessman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 01:47:35 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Re: talk to me, talk to me, njc "A concerned woman"---that would be me. Feel free to quote me on anything I write here, anytime, but please give me credit for it. :-) As for "talk to me talk to me"---nope, I'm done "talking" to anyone who still considers McCain-Palin a viable choice to lead this country and influence the world. (Meaning I'm done trying to convince anyone otherwise). I don't do it on political blogs and I won't do it here anymore. However, since you kind of called me out again, I'd like to respond to a few other things you wrote. On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 7:31 AM, Laura Stanley wrote: > A concerned woman wrote: > > it's extremely important for individuals who understand what's going on to > talk to friends, family, acquaintances, neighbors, and--dare I > say--coworkers, so they understand what's at stake here. It's great to join > groups, but not everyone is able to do so. If one person convinces just one > other person to vote Obama . . . you know the rest. > > Talk to me talk to me. > > But please, not McCain/Palin bashing which I already know and am not > impressed by. I need to hear the good that Obama/Biden have planned, not > spoken in campaign jargon but in your words. Everything I've written here is in my own words. No campaign jargon. And my intent was not to impress anyone, just to try to put some facts on the table for consideration. > > All I've gotten when I've asked for this is attack as if I'm on the other > side. Well I can see from both sides now, but I am not a Republican. To > me, Palin looks like she's getting a bum rap from people. She's the focus > not Obama's good solutions. That to me is a bunch of crap, and it could > work against Obama in the long run because it turns swing voters like me > off. I'm sorry you feel you've been attacked. Did someone call you a name or tell you not to express your opinion? I didn't. ----I'm neither a Republican or a Democrat, or even a Green Party supporter--tho I did cast a "protest" vote for Nader the year of Clinton's second run, when I knew he'd easily be re-elected. I've held my nose and voted Democrat (with that one exception) since I turned 18: the old lesser-of-two- evils strategy. As far as I'm concerned, the last time the Dems put up a candidate whose values, intelligence, and judgment I trusted, who truly had the best interests of the majority of Americans as his/her main agenda, was RFK in '68. I was too young to vote, but I paid attention to the battle raging between my dad and my older brother (who campaigned for Eugene McCarthy), until that awful June night that followed that awful April day when vibrant idealism died in this country. Personally, I don't think any meaningful reforms or overhauling of our present system can happen without a second American revolution. But that's just me. What else . . . Oh, I agree with you that what both campaigns are doing is "a bunch of crap." The difference is that the Republicans have perfected it, and the Dems are simply damned if they does and damned if they doesn't. > > > As for the wolf killing thing, it appears the way she is able to do it is > by a loop hold in the federal legislation, and the Alaskans are justifying > it saying they are protecting other species that are on the endangered list: > > > "In response to concerns like these, Congress passed the Federal Airborne > Hunting Act of 1972, which made it illegal for hunters to shoot animals from > a plane or helicopter. > The federal legislation (PDF) does have a loophole for predator control, > permitting state employees or licensed individuals to shoot from an aircraft > for the sake of protecting "land, water, wildlife, livestock, domesticated > animals, human life, or crops." (This doesn't just apply to wolves; coyotes > and foxes are sometimes gunned down from aircraft, especially in Western > states.) Since 2003, Alaska has issued aerial wolf-hunting permits in select > areas where moose and caribou > populations are particularly endangered. > > > http://www.slate.com/id/2199140/ > I really have nothing to say about this other than, here's the last paragraph of the article: "Back in the 1950s, Alaska paid government employees and bounty hunters to take out thousands of wolves, but today's aerial wolf killers are unpaid. (They can make some money by selling the wolf pelts.) *Palin tried last year to have the state pay $150 for every wolf killed, but the state superior court shot that down as an illegal use of bounty payments, which were outlawed in that state in 1984."* > > > I've been reading about the polar bears too. Palin doesn't want them on > the endangered species list because to do so would NOT remove the greatest > threat to polar bears which is loss of their food source: endangered ice > seals populations decreasing as ice melts. What it would do is make > territory where the Alaskan people want to drill for natural gas off limits. I don't know enough about this particular statement to comment on it, other than . . . *errrrm, why is the ice melting??!?!??* Would you care to quote Palin on that? > > > As for the drilling... it is going to continue and increase somewhere on > the earth as long as we are addicted to petroleum. And as long as we, you > and I, are addicted, we are going to cause global warming which is leading > to the death of ice seals and polar bears. Also, given that we are going to support drilling on the earth as we continue to use petroleum in our cars and houses, I can see how it would be in our national interest to drill here rather than depending on drilling done by people who are hostile toward us which is what we are doing now. Maybe if it was done more here, we would be quicker to look for alternative sources because we would see the damage being done to our earth unlike now... kind of like maybe if more people become aware of what happens to cattle, etc. they'll quit eating these animals, quit the massive killing and quit consuming the panic hormones of the death and mistreatment which can't be good for peace. Well, I can't possibly refute that logic, so all I'll say is this: I haven't owned a *new* car since my parents helped me buy a Mazda 323 4-spd. (great mileage) back in 1992. (Which I sold a couple years later when I moved back to NYC, where I didn't need a car, and where I wish I'd stayed.) All the other used cars I've owned have been gas-saving subcompacts that I've driven till they died. I recently got a great deal on a *'98* Subaru Forester, 5-spd., which feels like a brand-new luxury vehicle to me. I have been living (if you can call it that) without a car for the last four years, because I was too broke to save up the money for one. (I don't do credit or loans, but that's a whole 'nother story.) I drive it only when necessary--to the grocery store, the doctor, the vet, the occasional trip out of town. I've been recycling garbage and other household stuff since the 70s; due to financial circumstances, I share a house with four other unrelated adults, one of whom, my landlady, keeps the heat low in winter and has made the house about as "green" as a 100-yr-old house can be; I quit eating meat a long time ago, except for free-range organic chicken and turkey. So kindly don't lump me in with the average American. I'm not here to debate and will wait for the debates to see who presents better concrete solutions. I would like to hear your understanding of Obama's solutions... not from the stand that McCain this or Palin that. I would really like to vote for Obama, but so much attention is on Palin, I get turned off. I'd like to hear how ya'll understand Obama's plan of action so I can understand and relate to it too. I've read his website and that long document he wrote, but it is hard for me to understand and pick out concrete solutions from there. I think Debra addressed this in her msg. better than I can. (Thanks!) And frankly, I don't pretend to understand all of Obama's plans, nor do I, sad to say, think he's a visionary who's going to bring Real Change to the country. (See above). But I do know that this country and many of its people simply won't survive another Republican administration, nevermind the rest of the world. (And right at the moment, it doesn't look their precious capitalist economy is going to survive the greed and mismanagement of the last 8 years. Remember, Clinton left office with a large budget surplus, long since gone and squandered, mostly by a bunch of obscenely wealthy soulless old white men who won't relinquish their grip till they finally die.) Anything else? Terra Love, Laura - -- Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:46:21 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Joni Treasure The mask I bought on eBay which might or might not be the one she had made of her own face and that was stolen from a hotel in Saskatchewan (I think that's how the story goes). I have photos if anyone is interested in seeing it, let me know and I'll send you a copy. My second favourite is the Hejira poster I have framed and hanging over my fireplace. Warmly, Cassy If Iraq's biggest export was broccoli, would we still be there ? - ----- Original Message ----- From: <<< What is your greatest Joni treasure? I mean, your most favorite/precious Joni collection. >>> ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #216 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------