From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #186 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, August 30 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 186 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- SV: Privacy concerns, NJC ["Marion Leffler" ] RE: winnepeg jonifest, njc?? [Laura Stanley ] RE: winnipeg jonifest, njc?? [Mags ] wasps and mozzies at Pegfest NJC [Mags ] Re: [UKJonifest2008] Jonifest 2008 - a tipsy recollection... [Garret ] RE: Joni Fest 2008 ["patrick leader" ] Mitchell's On the River [Patti Parlette ] Jonifest Report: Best.Fest.Ever Part 1 [Patti Parlette ] njc, Paz, take shelter from the storm! [Patti Parlette ] Re: [UKJonifest2008] Jonifest 2008 - a tipsy recollection... [missblux@go] Re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? [Monika Bogda] RE: Privacy concerns, NJC [] Joni downloads on amazon ["Lindsay Moon" ] Re: Privacy concerns, NJC [Moni Kellermann ] Re: coma song njc [M C ] Re: Privacy concerns, NJC [Chris Marshall ] Re: Privacy concerns, NJC [Moni Kellermann ] RE: winnipeg jonifest, njc?? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Jonifest Report: Best.Fest.Ever Part 1 [Michael Paz ] Re: njc, Paz, take shelter from the storm! [Michael Paz ] njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? ["Kate Bennett" <] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:26:01 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Privacy concerns, NJC O my god, did I write so many in just two years?? How do you all put up with me :-) You are welcome to read them if you like since you are a member of the list and I trust you. As for people outside the list, I maintain my previous opinion. It definitely doesnt feel good to know that anybody I wouldnt want to has easy access. Knowing this I will probably censure myself more in future. Marion _____ Fren: Mark Angelo [mailto:markangelo05@gmail.com] Skickat: den 30 augusti 2008 04:37 Till: Marion Leffler Kopia: JMDL Dmne: Re: Privacy concerns, NJC Marion, using two techniques (and there are doubtless others) I described to Rian results in a humbling 424 or your entries to the JMDL in their entirety. (No I didn't read any of them!!!). - -- - -Mark in Florida On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Marion Leffler wrote: Moni, I understand your hesitations. I googled myself the other day and found a couple of my inputs to the list. Strangely enough, just a couple, and no-one knows why those and not others. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:34:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: RE: winnepeg jonifest, njc?? Hi Mags, I think it would be great! What time of year? I'm definitely intersted. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:31:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: RE: winnipeg jonifest, njc?? as I just wrote to mister muller off list, Im thinking early summer. I am concerned about the monstrous mozzies, so be forewarned, they do like to bite sweet people ;-) Im on it, plans in the works. Do write me and tell me if you are interested, Im making a "people who are interested list" and then I'll get back in touch. I imagine it would be a number around the same as UK Fest. Seems to be a good and manageable number. Im thinking PegFest would be a great name. Mags=Margaret=Peg=Winnipeg hehe Im pretty excited about this and am glad that Muller and Laura are interested too. Im stoked to show you my Canadian Prairie home, and you will know why I love it so much. Paz can attest to that because he and his home boys were here. And Lucy has been here and and ;-) i exist as i am, that is enough ~walt whitman~ - --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Laura Stanley wrote: From: Laura Stanley Subject: RE: winnepeg jonifest, njc?? To: margaret_elmtree@yahoo.ca Cc: joni@smoe.org Received: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 8:34 AM Hi Mags, I think it would be great! What time of year? I'm definitely intersted. Love, Laura __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: wasps and mozzies at Pegfest NJC very likely that we may well have wasps and mozzies too. the wasps can be horrible nasty pests, but a couple of tips. do not eat outside...that's an open invitation to the little buzzers. and try not to swat....the stress from you seems to attract them further. try to be one with them. ooohhhhhmmmmm or is that bzzzzzzzzzz . i'm quite serious, i know they are nasty but they just might be. dont say i didnt warn ya ;-) okay, just askin, would folks be interested in camping? i still dont have a venue sealed but i need to know what people are willing to do to sleep under the brilliant prairie night skye hehe. xomagsxo i exist as i am, that is enough ~walt whitman~ __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more.... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:07:50 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: [UKJonifest2008] Jonifest 2008 - a tipsy recollection... Chris, Another lovely fest report there. The wasps, the terrible, terrible wasps. I have a couple of pics of them, haha. I think a small UK/ROI fest would be great before the year is out. My timetable will get more and more difficult to mess with between now and next May but for the moment I would definitely count myself in. We could go to London?? Any excuse to go there really, lol. Oki, will work on fest pictures. GARRET NP - Big Yellow Taxi, Hunter (Cristina, you're fabulous) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:03:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Jonifest, Part Two What amazes me, and crosses my mind at Jonifest a lot, is that this one Canadian singer-songwriter has brought about the most amazing of gatherings. I'm sure that she has no idea, really. I mean, she knows ABOUT them I'm sure, but she does not know the POWER of them. Anyway, words cannot describe how breath-takingly lovely Holycombe is...a grass labyrinth (but alas no cheese in the centre), a Teepee, a series of rocks that draw the positive and negative energies of the earth to create lay lines, a babbling brook, an orchard, a grass tennis court, and a layout perfect for this gathering. And the hosts could not have been more delighted with us...after all, in their words, they had free admission to an awesome concert every night. I was happy enough to have had access to a cushioned sleep and a hot shower personally... And the food! I couldn't get over that Lucy's boyfriend John came along for this crazy ride and instantly blended right in - an easy task in some ways I guess but not in all ways. I was fortunate to have been put up in The Lodge, which was kitchen central, so everytime I passed through to get something from my room I was treated to the most delicious of scents...sauces, curries, spices, and John laying down yet another layer of pastry to create his sensational bahklava! Breakfasts were a casual and comfortable combination of fresh breads, cereals, fruits, jams, coffee, tea, and as Chris said - fecking hornets. (And despite Delene's problem with my killing living things, I crushed as many of the bastards as I could.) And as always with a Jonifest, what makes the food all the more better is the company and conversation...oh yes, we definitely come for conversation and as I said on more than one ocassion, Jonifests always afford me the best conversations I get anywhere, whether it's Joni talk or NJC politics, people and places. Lunches were typically leftovers from the previous night's supper, which hopefully took some of the pressure off of Lucy, and then of course there were the incredible suppers...Thai, Greek, Italian, and both meaty and vegetarian options (the eggplant parmesan was to die for!), fresh salads and breads, and lots and lots of tasty wines - and not a speck of tofu to be found! There were some nice added treats as well, such as Adriano and Licia's pancakes - I'll leave it to him to share the recipe - needless to say we were all very well taken care of - I don't know how they did it, but Lucy & John (and those who pitched in) did an INCREDIBLE job with the food and drinks. The days were also very open and casual - sometimes there were groups who went hiking, sometimes road trips to surrounding towns, sometimes lingering at Holycombe and indulging in the constant musical magic that happened in every nook & cranny. I enjoyed a short hike with about 10-12 others through the surrounding hills, just soaking in the gorgeous country and the lush greenery and palatial homes in the area. I also took a road trip with Adriano, Licia, Henning & Oddmund to Warwick - I was a bit hesitant at first because I knew it would consume the afternoon and I was afraid I'd miss something, but as it was I made the right call in tagging along - firstly, Adriano, being Italian, employs a somewhat heavy foot on the gas so the trip itself is a bit of a thrill ride. We lit up every "Too Fast" sign along the road to Warwick, and that is even more of an accomplishment as we had 5 bodies in a car that was made for, well, two. Part of our agenda involved finding the right kind of flour for the aforementioned pancakes, so we went in a couple of local shops in Warwick. We toured St. Mary's Church, which had been established around 1100 and was still in use. It was an amazing self-guided tour with lots of interesting history and tombs throughout the church, which personally I found a bit creepy but I certainly appreciated the beauty & history of it. And I think I'm probably the first registered visitor from Greenville, SC! We then stopped at Oken's House to have a cup o' tea, which was very refreshing and after all, no visit to England would be complete without that. We also went in the outside of Warwick Castle, but costs and time didn't allow us to do the entire thing. There was also an outside market, with lots of shops selling everything from DVD's of British TV shows (The Wobbly Wimbles of Walpole Street or some such) to fresh fruits and vegetables. I noticed in a shop window a used game of "Snakes & Ladders" and immediately shouted out the Joni content. (In the USA the game is known as 'Chutes & Ladders' so I had never seen it in Joni's stated incarnation) We took a photo of the game with Oddmund & myself and I said that Patti will have to have a copy of this one - Joni content AND two of her JMDL menfolk! Another outing involved a short walk to Whichford, a beautiful and quaint village (actually, they ALL are) and a visit to The White Lion - after all, besides the requisite cup o' tea in a cafe, a visit to a proper English pub is also in order. Bene, Garret, Mike, Christina, Oddmund & myself made the trip and enjoyed a pint or three, and were joined by Robin & Lieve when they came passing by. A delightful afternoon, and again the stimulating discussion was the highlight. Oh, and about the British Pubs...if you choose to open one you have to know the rules about naming them - simple, really. It's color + animal. There you go. It's like naming your village, just take your last name and add -ford, -ton, -shire or if you're near water add -on-(name of river). I'm currently lobbying to change the name of my own city to Mullerfordshire-On-Reedy. I'll let you know how that comes out. And then of course there are the afternoons that I didn't go anywhere, but rather stayed on the grounds to enjoy beverages (including PIMMS!), jokes, stories, gossip, what have you with fellow festgoers, or music such as the already much-discussed brilliant Beatles session we had with Henning & Dave on guitar, Barry/Cahill on flute and sax, and all of on percussion and vocals. Henning particularly was amazing, his voice taking on Lennon-like or McCartneyesque characteristic, depending on the song. And besides the fact that we sounded damn good if I do say so, it is such joy to just look around and see everyone in a kindred musical spirit. It's moments like this which make the world a small place. But now I'm veering into the musical portion of things - that's probably another post in itself so I'll bring this one to a close and give my fingers and your eyes a break. Bob NP: Greg Laswell, "That It Moves" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:19:34 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Joni Fest 2008 anita, your post deeply touched me, as you did all weekend, so i'm responding here to file my jonifest remembrance. since i'm not really a musician, but find music to be perhaps the most important thing in my life, i got particular pleasure this fest hanging so closely with so many complete musicians, without any sense of separation. one of the strongest binding agents for this fest was dave blackburn. dave had offered to help out if i wanted to do a set. he learned four songs for me, sometimes just from recordings, writing out charts before he left the states, and finding time at holycombe to rehearse with me. he did this for many other people, so that oddmund got to have a blast on 'all i want', and, in just an hour or so, putting together 'jericho' for adriano's direct-to-the-heart vocal. for me, doing 'everything but the girl's' marvelous, sweet sad song 'mirrorball', with les on back-up vocals and robin on perfect percussion, was a dream. then there's the mounds of music dave put together with robin, and with barry and delene (the four of them did a great version of 'dog eat dog'). though dave sounds like a southern california man, he was born and raised in england, and his mother (quite a character) spent an afternoon at holycombe. one of my favorite parts of the fest was a set that robin and dave did for his mother, and any of us who wanted to watch. a very jazz-heavy set. i can't say enough about robin's singing. she's just a phenomenal jazz singer. in the joni vein, the performances i loved the most were 'talk to me', 'chair in a sky', and the brilliant version of 'blue' that she and dave have worked out, in which he's replicated the complete piano part on guitar. other musical highlights (in no order) include: - - anita's set, especially her rocking last song which just built and built. - - chris marshall's first 'tragically hip' song - - though he 'couldn't be arsed' to bring it downstairs, les played 'this must be the place' (the talking heads song, in shawn colvin's arrangement) for me, and it was as great as anything i heard all weekend - - jeff's songs. i can't describe what it is that is so special about his writing, but i can think of any number of huge acts that can't write songs as clear and original and complete as jeff's. i hope you all get to hear them; i deeply hope we all here more. - - queen lulu's sets, especially the sandy denny covers. - - almost any time christina sang, whether unreleased joni with henning, or especially joan baez' 'diamonds and rust' and judy collins' 'someday soon'. the full company 'gift of the magi' was a blast. as has been said, holycombe was just beautiful, so incredibly green. we were also blessed with, i think, amazing weather. we were able to take our morning coffee and cereal outside almost every day. another particular pleasure of this small fest was that almost all of us were able to fit at the same long palace-style dinner table for our evening meal, every night, in a glass roofed, fairy-lit porchlike extension to the building, just off our performance space. i haven't really looked closely at my pictures yet, but i'm hoping many folks got wonderful shots of us at dinner. i have a brilliant shot of john as lieve's explaining to him what it means to have joined the cult! so many other memories. it was truly great to get to hang with garrett, get to know oddmund, bene, christina, lulu and the wonderful john, to bond with barry over '70s white funk (tower of power, sons of champlin, etc.). i know i'm forgetting to mention important moments. i also want to give a huge thanks to les ross, who let me stay with him (and a houseful of guests) for a great weekend in london including much driving around singing along with todd rundgren and a visit to some shithole called wisley gardens. and seeing the site of london 2012! thanks so so much, lesbird. and to mike pritchard and elizabet, who put me up for three glorious days in barcelona, one of the coolest cities in the world. again thanks so very much my friend. finally, back around to anita's beautiful post, i loved all of what she had to say (and i loved reigniting the sense of connection i feel with anita and steph, two of the most special people i've met on this list), but i'm just going to clip: > And then >I go to Joni Fest armed with my questions about the nature and function of >music, and I am graced to be given some answers. >One answer might be that music is about some deeper sharing patrick np - st. germain, land of ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:32:46 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: Mitchell's On the River I just *had* to share this restaurant review. Hey, where's Barangrill? On the river. "Mitchell's serves great summer-shack eats by the river" Do you think this can be real? Check out the picture: http://www.courant.com/features/food/hc-bargainbites0728.artaug28,0,6881602.story It's across from Ferry Park (as soon as that ferry boat docks), and in the waiting line are "corporate suits" (short-sighted businessmen) and "parents with little kids in tow" (kids with jitters in their legs and those wide, wide open stares and the kids got cokes and chocolate bars) "all waiting...". Everybody waiting. You can watch "sea gulls circling a tugboat by the docks." (Seagulls come down and they squawk at me down where the water skiers glide...) "The most expensive thing on the menu is the lobster roll" (lobster pots and sunshine). Yikes. Just a simple restaurant review sends me Joni-orbiting around the sun! (How can I have that JMOCDed point of view? It gets easier and easier to do, when I'm always bound and tied to the wonderful JMDL!) At Mitchell's On the River, you can: Think what you'd like to have For supper Or take a walk A park A bridge A tree A river But I know my needs My sweet tumbleweed I need more quiet times By a river flowing I wish I had a river. I'll have to check this place out. No omelets or stews or fresh salmon frying, so I'll go with the lobster roll. Rolling, rolling, rock and lobster rolling! Love, Patti P., just another silly girl, when Joni love makes a fool of me _________________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_082008 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:53:44 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: Jonifest Report: Best.Fest.Ever Part 1 One intrepid traveler wrote: "So now I'm at Warwick Parkway and I go inside the station to ask the agent about getting to Whichford, or Warwickshire, or Shipston-On-Stour, assuming that this was like asking someone about going to Chicago, or Atlanta, or even Swindon, but no, he said he couldn't help me with any train tickets and suggested I take a cab." Oh, Bob! Ach du Lieber Musik Meister Muller! Don't you know the Joni rules for traveling traveling traveling? You take the big yellow taxi to the TRAIN! The train! Was that station master too busy shuffling cards to give you the right directions? You've got to be like that black crow. I took a ferry to the highway Then I drove to a pontoon plane I took a plane to a taxi And a taxi to a train I've been traveling so long How'm I ever going to know my home When I see it again I'm like a black crow flying In a blue blue sky (or in this moody sky today, as it were) In search of love and music. But at least you found the love and music after all. And all the pretty people there, and picture postcard charms. Don't apologize (no regrets, Coyote) for the detail-mode. Pick up every shiny thing and toss us out all those golden eggs. I tell you we are very hungry now, for a sweeter fare. Fest reports: the more voices on it the better, and the more full-of-detail voices, the better. xo, pp _________________________________________________________________ Be the filmmaker you always wanted to belearn how to burn a DVD with Windows.. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588797/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 18:12:49 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: RE: jonifest Some personal thoughts on fest. I'm not going to do an A-Z of all the people but I would like to single out a few guys (and gals). I agree totally on the overall quality of the music and I was especially happy because the joni music I knew *least *about (and was least interested in) was introduced to me in all its glory by Henning and Cristina, and to a lesser extent by Jeff. I am talking, of course, about the early joni, especially the unpublished joni. Even better than that wonderful discovery was the joni music I am *most*interested in (and wanted joni to do more of) was given a thorough outing by Dave and Robin. I am talking of course, about the 'Mingus' period. I have seen many talented performers at the fests I've attended but I never thought I'd see anyone take the Mingus (and DJRD/Hissing/Hejira) repertoire and make it their own in such an accomplished way. If Dave Blackburn says a song is complicated, it IS complicated, but everything he and Robin did was carried off as if it were merely a three-chord pop song. Absolutely riveting and unforgettable. My only tiny regret was that Robin does not yet know 'Sweet Sucker Dance' and therefore did not do it (nor Wolf/Lindsay), but the pleasure of hearing and seeing Chair in the Sky and Dry Cleaner etc far outweighed that regret. Both couples (H&C; D&R) were marvellous; I just marvelled. Everyone already knew how great Les Ross is, but it's always pin-drop time when he gets up to the mike. Like Houdini, he makes the audience hold their breath but he always gets to the other side of his hi-wire performance. Exquisite, as usual and thanks too for the ride and the company. Jeff, in contrast, was a new treat and what a treat he was. All the other reports about him were true. Non-attendees are in for a treat when the DVDs arrive. And what a modest, lovely man he is too. I look forward to hearing and seeing him in the future but for the moment, e-mail will have to do. Thanks to everyone for the live music we heard and the late night (and afternoon) singalongs where even us professional members of the audience were encouraged to creep out of our foxholes and add a note or two. Thanks too for all the recorded music floating around which was so generously provided by Chris, Garret, Bob, Dave, Jeff, and others. I am extremely happy to have been introduced to the music of the Morelenbaums (thanks DB). My principal personal objectives were to meet old friends, make new friends, eat, drink, sing, talk and make merry to the limit of my ability and energy (I have more of the latter than the former), and like the British Olympic squad I surpassed all expectations, though no gong in recognition of a job well done. Thanks to all the others who made the fest what it was: thanks to the people who I may never see again; it was a pleasure to meet you. To those of you I will see again one day, "hasta la proxima". To Lucy and John (and their merry band of helpers): Magnificent. This fest will stay with me forever. mike in barcelona np  Show of Hands  The Dive (thanks Chris) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:11:51 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Paz, take shelter from the storm! Querido Senor Paz, and everyone else threatened by Hurricane Gustav, I hope you are taking shelter from the storm. Hit the refuge of the roads! (You, who are on the road, must have a safety code, that you can live by.) I remember you writing, just before Katrina hit, that you were packing up and heading out in anticipation of (in your words, if my weak and a lazy mind remembers correctly) "a category four blow-job". Be safe y vaya con Dios. xo, pp P.S. The next storm in the works is named Hanna. We don't want THAT one to start pitchin' in. _________________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_082008 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 18:33:14 +0200 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: NJC Privacy Dear Les, thanks a lot for responding to this; whether anything can be done about the problem or not it is good to know that you are aware that some people are concerned. It seems that quite a few people have signed up without being aware of the privacy issue; perhaps something about this could be included in the email that we receive when signing up? I for my part chose the email list over the on-line forum precisely because I wanted some degree of privacy. I figured that if my private emails to non-listers can't be googled, the ones to the list would stay private too. I think the idea of paying Jeff, perhaps to hire someone to do the reprogramming is good. All the best Bene Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:37:10 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Privacy concerns Many people agreed: > So I support your request to make the list unavailable > to google searches. The JMDL has been hosted (for free) since April of 1998 by Jeff Wasilko and the kind people at Smoe. He/they host many lists (http://smoe.org/lists) and have automated the entire server process which includes an on-line archive (JMDL here: http://smoe.org/lists/joni). There are ways a webmaster can tell search engines not to index a certain page/folder, but many engines ignore those requests anyway. I've asked Jeff in the past to take the archives off-line, but it requires (de)programming on his part and... well, he's busy and really doesn't have an incentive to do so. The (almost) complete JMDL archives are available and searchable at JMDL.com but only to those who are logged in. The average web surfer wouldn't know of their existence as they are not mentioned anywhere. To my knowledge, Google has not indexed the archives there. Ultimately, I feel that if one joins an internet list one has to expect that that list is going to leak into search engines at some point. Comes with the territory. Trying to remove any trace of it from searches would be like trying to stop Joni from smoking. In other words, I'm not sure the request can be fulfilled. Les ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:03:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: RE: winnipeg jonifest, njc?? I would possibly be interested in attending a Winnipeg Jonifest. I love Canada and would be thrilled to see some Canadian prairies! That is something that was missing on my vacation in Vancouver! Anyway, I say possibly because I am not sure what my financial situation will be like next summer and where I will be living/working as I have just begun applying for what would be my second radio job (I'm need to work my way up and out!) which for the most part consists of stations outside of Ohio where I presently live... - -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:15:37 +0200 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [UKJonifest2008] Jonifest 2008 - a tipsy recollection... On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 1:56 AM, Chris Marshall wrote: > > I'm sitting here fairly consumed by the post-fest blues, and even beer > and wine has failed to shift the somewhat f**ked up feeling that has > been following me around since Wednesday. So the post-fest blues are for real it seems. I can report that I don't have them, on the contrary. Maybe it's because I haven't known all of your for so long, maybe I was less involved with the music, I don't know... There was a moment I remember particularly well and which still stays with me. After the Beatles-singing on Saturday when we were all still in the room but the singing was over, there was a point when noone spoke. I guess Henning and Dave were putting away their guitars, Chris was fiddling with the sound system, maybe someone was thinking about getting a cup of tea or going to the loo or whatever, but everyone was quiet. This may be a silly comparison, but if the singing had been the plop! that it makes when you drop a stone in the water the atmosphere in the room was like the circles that you can see in the water afterwards. It felt very good and it hasn't gone away. Plus as I wrote the day I returned home, I found even a few tedious people in my surroundings more fund and easy to talk with, as if the whole experience had straightened something out inside me. Enough...! I hope you'll all get over those blues, otherwise we'll just have to organize another one. We owe it to John and Lucy anyway, we'll get them a royal suite and have food and music sent up every hour...and raindancers... Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:34:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? I joined not too long ago. I started getting into Joni around mid October of 2006. I remember that particular month as that is the month I graduated from Broadcasting school. I believe shortly after being enlightened by Joni's music (probably early or mid November) I went online to search for a messageboard of some kind. I happened to come across this mailing list and was a little hesitant to sign up at first not knowing what I was getting myself into. I was very much hoping that everyone would be kind and welcoming. There are some boards/lists that are very snobby when it comes to new fans. So I had 3 ideas in mind of what I wanted from a Joni list: 1) To be able to learn more about Joni's music as well as Joni herself...I'm always interested in the person behind the art.....and of course search engines can only go so far as fans have access to all sorts of different sites and such 2) To be able to express myself freely about Joni's music 3) To be able to read other peoples' Joni experiences and opinions....I was very curious to what sort of people Joni Mitchell would attract as fans..... So I signed up around then first on digest. I believe I was on the digest for one day! I decided to sign up for the regular ol' list. That is much more to my liking...and now here I am today, for better or for worse. - -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:54:21 -0500 From: Subject: RE: Privacy concerns, NJC Hi-- Long-time member (and lurker!) here. Here are my two cents. I joined the JMDL in September, 1996, about a month after it began. The JMDL was my very first Internet list; I was woefully ignorant about how the online universe worked, and search engines back then were not nearly as powerful as they are now. I was lulled into complacency by the requirement that members had to jump through the hoop of registration in order to post, and I believed that my words were at least somewhat confined to the group I had come to regard as my friends. I posted then using my actual last name, along with my employer's address. Fast-forward to years later. My elderly mother Googled me, and uncovered a fair number of my joking, JMDL comments about Joni minutiae, along with other Google entries related to my professional life. It became clear to me that, if my mother could unearth these tidbits, never meant for general publication, then so could anyone interested in anything about me, or having some authority over, say, my career. In the meantime, I had also acquired a home computer and e-mail address. I immediately removed all traces of my name from my e-mail address. However, all the posts from the past that featured my full name, along with any with the new address that made reference to that name, still come up as Google search results, if the right words are inputted. In the law, there's a time and a place for everything. An individual has a right to free speech, but not to shout "fire!" in a crowded theatre if there is, in fact, no fire. In communications in general, there are things that can be said to one audience or in one context that would not be said in another. Unfortunately, this list has no been around so long that some of us who started out writing to one audience, and in one context, now find ourselves writing to another, broader audience, in a different context. More seriously, our old writings are searchable in ways we never expected, and never could have predicted. I'm with Vince. If the archive is taken offline, then presumably, it will no longer be searchable. At a minimum (and my apologies if this has already been mentioned), is it possible that the archive be online, but not be searchable by any entity, including search engines, which has not taken certain affirmative steps: perhaps by identifying a pop-up letter code, similar to a feature of many anti-Spam programs? And hello, all! It's good to come in from the cold. ;-) Cheers, The former--and future!--Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:14:15 -0700 From: "Lindsay Moon" Subject: Joni downloads on amazon My 15-year-old neighbor let me know that amazon is offering Joni's Blue and several songs are offered up for sale. Nice feature for her! Then, taunting me, she said, "Did you get her new album released last week?" I said, "No, she didn't release an album last week." "Oh, why? Because she's dead??" The little scamp! Lindsay http://www.amazon.com/MP3-Music-Download/b/ref=sa_menu_dmusic1?ie=UTF8&node= 163856011&pf_rd_p=328655101&pf_rd_s=left-nav-1&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=507846&pf _rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=15420ZMPDJDJVCN4SV9N ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:21:47 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: Privacy concerns, NJC Wie blckcrow@chorus.net so vortrefflich formulierte: > I'm with Vince. If the archive is taken offline, then presumably, it > will no longer be searchable. At a minimum (and my apologies if this > has already been mentioned), is it possible that the archive be > online, but not be searchable by any entity, including search > engines, which has not taken certain affirmative steps: perhaps by > identifying a pop-up letter code, similar to a feature of many > anti-Spam programs? Yes, this is possible. It is very easy, in fact. You simply put some so-called meta tags in your web pages and prevent Google (and other search bots) from indexing the pages. I have always used content for testing purposes or demos for clients on my own website and they do never show up in Google search results because they are not added to the search index. It would also be possible to move the complete archive to the jmdl.com website in a way that you can access all the old messages (because you may want to re-read something that you don't have on your computer any more because it wasn't transferred from your old machine back then) after you log in to jmdl.com. So any member of the jmdl.com would be able to read but not non-member visitors to the website. As I have brought up the whole issue, I would like to add that it was never my idea to have anything removed from the web, just have it not show up in Google search results. And this is easily achievable. moni ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) From: M C Subject: Re: coma song njc To go further with Randy's post about the Stone's song "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" bringing Sam Carter out of a coma: What song or songs do you think would bring you out of a coma? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:21:38 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Privacy concerns, NJC On 30 Aug 2008, at 19:21, Moni Kellermann wrote: > Wie blckcrow@chorus.net so vortrefflich formulierte: >> I'm with Vince. If the archive is taken offline, then presumably, it >> will no longer be searchable. At a minimum (and my apologies if this >> has already been mentioned), is it possible that the archive be >> online, but not be searchable by any entity, including search >> engines, which has not taken certain affirmative steps: perhaps by >> identifying a pop-up letter code, similar to a feature of many >> anti-Spam programs? > > Yes, this is possible. > It is very easy, in fact. > You simply put some so-called meta tags in your web pages and > prevent Google (and other search bots) from indexing the pages. As has already been pointed out, meta tags or robots.txt files only have any effect if the search engine chooses to honour the tags. That's not something you can control. > I would like to add that it was never my idea to have anything > removed from the web, just have it not show up in Google search > results. And this is easily achievable. Remember also that anything in the past is not going to disappear as a result of something that may or may not get done now: only future traffic is affected. Cheers, - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 21:44:58 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: Privacy concerns, NJC Wie Chris Marshall so vortrefflich formulierte: > As has already been pointed out, meta tags or robots.txt files only have > any effect if the search engine chooses to honour the tags. That's not > something you can control. No, I can't. But as Google bots DO respond to the tags, it works. http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/topic.py?topic=8459 > Remember also that anything in the past is not going to disappear as a > result of something that may or may not get done now: only future > traffic is affected. This - in my opinion - simply is not correct. You can have pages removed from the Google index. http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35301 moni k. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:09:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: winnipeg jonifest, njc?? I'm also interested in a Winnipeg Jonifest (or an Anywhere Jonifest, for that matter) but, as usual, it depends upon financial situation and so on. Damn that financial situation! But my job is in a bit of upheaval right now, and I'm thinking about the possibility of early retirement if it can be managed, so financial things become somewhat important (damn them once again.) I would camp if I had to but only if I had to! I don't require a room at the Ritz by any means, but running water and flush toilets are good. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:18:38 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Jonifest Report: Best.Fest.Ever Part 1 LMAO!!! You ought to try driving on the WRONG side of a car and the road. I was scared to death (more for the Brits that had no idea I was coming) than myself or the band. Paz (taking a break from hurricane prep) Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Aug 29, 2008, at 7:00 PM, Bob Muller wrote: Until the next one, that is... First of all, I humbly bow before my queen - Lucy, this was truly a blessed, incredible event. You had the vision to foresee how perfect a spot Holycombe would be, if only you would have had the vision to have it catered - ha! This was my first time to England, so as is my nature I had a great sense of trepidation about the unknowns, but where there's a fest there's a way! My trip across the pond landed me at Heathrow at 6AM London time - this was somewhat intentional as I wanted to make sure I had enough time to fumble around and get there in plenty of time. And man, that Heathrow is NOT for the squeamish...sometimes you get signs, sometimes you can conceive of the layout, and other times you have to guess, screw up, and get back on the right track. At least they speak the same language as me. Anyway, I had NO idea how I was going to get to Holycombe from Heathrow, and lots of people had sent me coach schedules, train schedules, so that helped to really confuse me but at least left me with the confidence to know that it could be done. Luckily I ended up at a National Express counter and got a coach ticket to Warwick (the second W is silent y'all) Parkway, even though the ticket agent didn't seem to have any idea of where I was going. As fate would have it, I ended up on the right bus and the driver successfully navigated the entire trip on the WRONG side of the freeway - lucky for him all of the Brits have gotten together and mutually agreed to drive on the wrong side of the road, so this sort of works but like France some of the roads are so narrow that there's only ONE side anyway. So now I'm at Warwick Parkway and I go inside the station to ask the agent about getting to Whichford, or Warwickshire, or Shipston-On- Stour, assuming that this was like asking someone about going to Chicago, or Atlanta, or even Swindon, but no, he said he couldn't help me with any train tickets and suggested I take a cab. There were a couple of vehicles outside that LOOKED like cabs, so I just toted my luggage outside and flashed my "I'm a lost American with a walletful of pounds - please take advantage of me" look, and that did the trick - - I knew the driver was legit because like all good NYC cabbies he was wearing a turban. I showed him the address I was heading and like every other person in England, he had NO IDEA where it was, but his Tom Tom would know, and lo & behold it did. I do have to say that I was still having major freakout seeing the cars coming at us on the other side of the road, and even more of a freakout when the driver deposited me at the doorstep of Holycombe and told me how much I owed him...HOLY COW (although I didn't say that because after all he was an Indian with a turban and all). And I thought my son's college education was expensive! But I was relieved to be there, where I needed to be - and it was still only 10AM! At this point I had been travelling for about 24 hours and was a bit pooped to say the least. Since there was nobody else around (Lucy was coming around 2 and the festing was commencing around 5), I strolled around a bit and found a wooden bench that allowed me to take a little nap, except for getting my first taste of English weather in that it was sunny and hot, then windy & chilly, then even a bit rainy for 10 minutes, and then repeat that cycle for 4-5 hours as I waited for other signs of life. After a while, the nice lady who had been housesitting for the family that owns the house came down and told me that the Lodge was open if I wanted to go in and relax in there...D'oh! And long about then (mid-afternoon), Dave Blackburn with his wife Robin and their friends Barry (aka Cahill) and Delene showed up, and then the fest really got started for me. We took a quick road-trip to a nearby town so that I could replenish my wallet with more pounds and they could get some postcards and other such things. By the time we got back, there was Lucy and John, Garret, Patrick, Mike - familiar faces and voices that told me that Jonifest 2008 was underway. More to follow - but not to worry, I won't stay in this detail mode throughout. Bob NP: Death Cab For Cutie, "Coney Island" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:25:24 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: winnipeg jonifest, njc?? Love Winnipeg and the idea of a PegFest. I would love to go if I am available. Love Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Aug 30, 2008, at 8:31 AM, Mags wrote: as I just wrote to mister muller off list, Im thinking early summer. I am concerned about the monstrous mozzies, so be forewarned, they do like to bite sweet people ;-) Im on it, plans in the works. Do write me and tell me if you are interested, Im making a "people who are interested list" and then I'll get back in touch. I imagine it would be a number around the same as UK Fest. Seems to be a good and manageable number. Im thinking PegFest would be a great name. Mags=Margaret=Peg=Winnipeg hehe Im pretty excited about this and am glad that Muller and Laura are interested too. Im stoked to show you my Canadian Prairie home, and you will know why I love it so much. Paz can attest to that because he and his home boys were here. And Lucy has been here and and ;-) i exist as i am, that is enough ~walt whitman~ - --- On Sat, 8/30/08, Laura Stanley wrote: From: Laura Stanley Subject: RE: winnepeg jonifest, njc?? To: margaret_elmtree@yahoo.ca Cc: joni@smoe.org Received: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 8:34 AM Hi Mags, I think it would be great! What time of year? I'm definitely intersted. Love, Laura __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:35:54 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: njc, Paz, take shelter from the storm! Thanks dear Patti. I can't believe we are facing another monster. It is already a Cat 5. At the moment we are trying to keep the faith and hope it turns. We have wedding to go to tonight for one of our dear friends and she of course is a mess with the city in the midst of an evacuation and 400 pp coming to the wedding. Many friends from Honduras so we will have a house full tonight as most of their hotels have been evacuated and the Mayor has ordered that tourists begin the evac process. Hopefully they will be able to get out from the airport tomorrow am. We plan to wait till early monday before we hit the road. By the time maybe something will change. Plan A is to go to my friends in Meridian, Ms. I will drop a line before we go. I wish everyone well and thanks for the calls and emails as always I feel so loved here. The outpouring of support 3 years ago this week brings tears to my eyes. Have a great Labor Day weekend all. Love Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Aug 30, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Patti Parlette wrote: Querido Senor Paz, and everyone else threatened by Hurricane Gustav, I hope you are taking shelter from the storm. Hit the refuge of the roads! (You, who are on the road, must have a safety code, that you can live by.) I remember you writing, just before Katrina hit, that you were packing up and heading out in anticipation of (in your words, if my weak and a lazy mind remembers correctly) "a category four blow-job". Be safe y vaya con Dios. xo, pp P.S. The next storm in the works is named Hanna. We don't want THAT one to start pitchin' in. _________________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_082008 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:43:47 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: River Rian I agree with you. IMO- River is the kind of song that is born out of a deep melancholy that happens too many during the time of year when the darkness grows. And then, as the song emerges, there is deep healing like the light that is soon to return. I don't view this song as planned but rather brilliantly emoted. A song I have always related to having experienced the holiday disconnect in moving from a place of snowy cold Christmases to the land of sunshiny summer like Christmases. Kate Did Joni write River as a christmas song? I mean, did she really plan "oh, i gotta make a christmas song"? I doubt she did because, imo, the song is not about christmas (but the setting was during christmast time). Rian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:50:53 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? Sometime before the excitement of when people were going to NO for the Pazfest. Sometime After I'd gone to see the JoniBobVan show in LA. Speaking of NO- be safe & godspeed Paz & family & all the residents being threatened by Gustav. Kate, proud husky dog owner! Yay northern dog breeds! >Joni toured with Dylan in fall 1998 and the internet was still new to me (I went online in late 97 or early 98) and about the first things I did an alta vista search on (I am going way back in time) were Samoyeds (my breed of dog) and Joni Mitchell and found both jonimitchell.com and the jmdl - I lurked forever because I was not cool enough to join or smart enough to figure out the hip lingo: NP, NPIMH, etc etc etc., but finally did join to get the Joni news and somewhere on jm.com is about the first thing i ever posted on line: my review of Joni in Chicago. I was so proud! anyway - what about you? Vince< ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #186 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------