From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #184 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, August 29 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 184 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Mariona and Marian [missblux@googlemail.com] NJC Garret the multiperformer [missblux@googlemail.com] If you are ever in a coma njc ["Randy Remote" ] re: Mariona and Marian ["marian" ] Re: NJC Garret the multiperformer [Garret ] Re: cookbook and privacy concerns [Jerry Notaro ] Re: privacy, njc [Laura Stanley ] Re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? [Laura Stanle] Re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? [Jerry Notaro] re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? [Mags ] Re: privacy, njc [Moni Kellermann ] Re: River [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: cookbook and privacy concerns [Moni Kellermann ] Re: Strathmore Joni Tribute [Bob Muller ] Jonifest 2008 & Dutchfest 2008 [Bob Muller ] Re: Joni Mitchell Covers, Volume #103 & More Covers ["ron" ] Privacy concerns, NJC ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: privacy, njc [Laura Stanley ] Re: Jonifest 2008 & Dutchfest 2008 ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Privacy concerns, NJC [Vince ] Re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? [Lucy Hone ] NJC privacy [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: privacy, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: jonifest [Garret ] Re: jonifest [Garret ] RE: cookbook and privacy concerns ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: cookbook and privacy concerns ["Marian Russell" ] Joni's lyrics and psychological aspects ["Marian Russell" Subject: Fest reports Hi everybody, well, I used up all my hankies drying my tears of regret for not having been able to go to the fest and am finally ready to thank everybody who took the trouble to report to the list. Sounds like you all had a wonderful time! And reading the reports I feel I know you better now though I wasn't there. I hope that somebody will load up pictures and maybe even music, that would be so great! Another matter: in some replies to Marian, her name was spelled Marion. That's alright with me but if you would like a cookbook file make sure you mail the right Marian (Russell) since I don't have it. Love to you all, ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:47:19 +0200 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: NJC Garret the multiperformer Are you saying he not only sings like an angel but he can dance too?! Bn Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:37:25 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: raindance Did anyone thank Garret yet for the resounding success with his raindance? SHAME ON YOU ALL!! mike NP Here I Dreamt I Was An Architect - Decemberists NPIMH Garret - The Fields of Athenry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:43:35 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: If you are ever in a coma njc Sam Carter lost consciousness after contracting severe anaemia but was brought back to life when "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" was blared into his ears. The anthem was the first single the retired baker from Stoke in Staffordshire ever bought, released in 1965 when he was just 17. Despite only being given a 30 per cent chance of survival, he woke from his coma after his wife Eva, 65, took the doctor's advice and played him his favourite tunes through a set of earphones. After three days of listening to the local Stoke station Signal 2, his eyes opened as soon as he heard the sound of Mick Jagger's vocals and Keith Richards' guitar riff. Sam said: "I can't remember much from being in a coma, but I do remember that when that song came on it took me right back to when I was a youngster. "I could remember how excited I was to get it down at the record shop. "I suddenly had a burst of energy and knew I had a lot more life left in me and that's when I woke up - to the sound of the first song I ever bought." Same, who has three children and six grandchildren, added: "I would love to thank Mick and the rest of the Stones personally - I feel they really did help wake me from my coma." Wife Eva said she had switched on the radio at Stoke's City General Hospital in a last-ditch attempt to bring him back a fortnight ago, after growing increasingly frustrated with his lack of progress. She said: "I didn't really think it would work. "I couldn't believe it when he started opening his eyes and looked at me. It was like we had been given another chance." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:30:57 -0700 From: "marian" Subject: re: Mariona and Marian Thank you, Bene. I wish I could have attended. We vacationed this year in the Cottswolds not far from Stroud, but I couldn't manage to make this trip coincide with the time of the Jonifest because of the schedules of other family members. It is such a wonderful experience to share the love of Joni's music with so many other people, and to be present for and bask in their various renditions of her songs, and just to hear all the wisdom that everyone has to share, not to mention the good humor and good fun. I'm glad for everyone who could experience this at the most recent fest in the UK. Maybe next time! I'm not so far away, just family visits and vacations with grandparents and aunts and uncles and grandchildren and their schedules have to take priority for awhile. All the best, Marian - ---------------------------------------- From: missblux@googlemail.com Sent: 29 August 2008 00:45 To: "Joni LIST" Subject: Mariona and Marian Hi Marion, it's a pity you could not make it! Just to say that I wish I remember who it was I spoke to in Holycombe about you, there was a real confusion between German Marion in Sweden and American Marian in Austria, and coming home I wanted to email the person but I forgot! Bene Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:12:18 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Fest reports Hi everybody, well, I used up all my hankies drying my tears of regret for not having been able to go to the fest and am finally ready to thank everybody who took the trouble to report to the list. Sounds like you all had a wonderful time! And reading the reports I feel I know you better now though I wasn't there. I hope that somebody will load up pictures and maybe even music, that would be so great! Another matter: in some replies to Marian, her name was spelled Marion. That's alright with me but if you would like a cookbook file make sure you mail the right Marian (Russell) since I don't have it. Love to you all, ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:52:37 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: NJC Garret the multiperformer Ha - this is how vicious rumours start;-) GARRET NP - Faggot, Dyke, Freak, Whatever (a radio show about LGBT in school. this is tugging on the heart strings) On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:47 AM, wrote: > Are you saying he not only sings like an angel but he can dance too?! > > Bn > > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:37:25 +0200 > From: "Mike Pritchard" > Subject: raindance > > Did anyone thank Garret yet for the resounding success with his raindance? > SHAME ON YOU ALL!! > mike > NP Here I Dreamt I Was An Architect - Decemberists > NPIMH Garret - The Fields of Athenry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:51:34 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: cookbook and privacy concerns Moni, Did you find the cookbook using Google? Is that what you are saying? I was unaware it was posted anywhere and that it can be freely downloaded. If that is true, please let us know so I don't need to personally send it out one by one which is what I have been doing for all these years. If it isn't, then your comparison doesn't fly. Jerry > Wie Kate Bennett so vortrefflich formulierte: >> Moni, I'll try. There are gigantic ranges of comfort that people have about >> their privacy. For example, Joni wrote very personal songs. In interviews >> & concerts she would share much about her life with complete strangers. >> Much of her personal life is archived & accessible & will be for generations >> to come. I don't see any difference between that & what is shared on lists >> such as this. Some people don't feel comfortable sharing their personal >> thoughts while others, by nature of their personality or perhaps their >> profession, feel just fine. Hope this helps a bit. Kate > > Hi, Kate, > > thank you for taking your time. > > I am not wondering why people are sharing personal stories on a LIST. > That, of course, is the purpose of a list like this here. That's why I > read the messages. > > The point is that there is a difference between sharing personal details > with a certain number of people and sharing it with everyone who is on > the web and can handle Google search. > > And there is a difference between sharing a personal story with some > people and letting anyone know something about you. > > I love all this "Web 2.0" stuff. I am on Facebook, I have a MySpace page > at http://www.myspace.com/kellerfrau and I have a blog about something > special at http://hillforceone.blogspot.com. (Thank you, Google, for > indexing this and show this message in your search results). The > difference between all these things and being a member of the list here > is that with a MySpace page I control what I display and I intentionally > want anyone in the world to know. With the list, I only want to > communicate with list members and do NOT want any internet user on this > planet to know. > > Joni Mitchell is a performer and as such her work is accessible online. > I do object to the idea that "much of her personal life is archived and > accessible". Her artistic work may be, but for sure not her personal life. > > This mailing list's archive does not have to be freely accessible on the > internet and be searched by Google. It could as well be stored and being > accessed by members only and just not show up in Google search results. > > And I still cannot see the benefit from everything being displayed by > Google. > > moni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:12:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: privacy, njc Moni wrote: What I ask myself is why hundreds of people here on this list do not care about their privacy. Hi Moni, It might be better to ask the hundreds of people on this list if they care about their privacy, and if they don't, then ask them "why" rather than asking yourself... I mean how could you be expected to answer that question? Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:40:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? Looking for guitar tabs to Joni's songs I got a bonus... the JMDL! Looking back at the tabs I printed off I see Carey wins for the earliest in my notebook at 8/27/02. So, I guess that's about when I joined the JMDL. I remember bringing my guitar to Thanksgiving dinner at my husband's parents' house that year because once I found the tabs, a whole new world was opened for me. The new world of the JMDL opened more slowly. I had no idea what it really was. I thought it was more like a public forum where strangers post and then go on their way rather than a community where people actually knew each other. I posted right away but didn't introduce myself for quite a while until somebody asked the list who I was. It is cool to have a group of friends like ya'll. I can't express how good it is to find people who have the same passion for Joni and for music as I do. It truly has opened up a whole new world for me. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:55:39 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? February 18, 1997. I still have my welcome email from Les (albeit automated:) Jerry > Looking for guitar tabs to Joni's songs I got a bonus... the JMDL! Looking > back at the tabs I printed off I see Carey wins for the earliest in my > notebook at 8/27/02. So, I guess that's about when I joined the JMDL. I > remember bringing my guitar to Thanksgiving dinner at my husband's parents' > house that year because once I found the tabs, a whole new world was opened > for me. > > The new world of the JMDL opened more slowly. I had no idea what it really > was. I thought it was more like a public forum where strangers post and then > go on their way rather than a community where people actually knew each other. > I posted right away but didn't introduce myself for quite a while until > somebody asked the list who I was. > > It is cool to have a group of friends like ya'll. I can't express how good it > is to find people who have the same passion for Joni and for music as I do. > It truly has opened up a whole new world for me. > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:03:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? I dont remember the year that I found Joni Mitchell dot com. I do remember reading with great interest, all the bits and pieces of information about Joni, concerts, well, every little thing was magic for this reader. I often thought about joining the discussion list, but didnt. Not until April of 200. in response to my new to the list but not to joni mitchell post, jimmy, muller, and others sent me private letters of welcome. that in itself blew me away. most of all, i loved the kibitzing, the humour, the warmth. and the knowlege of all things joni that i had yet to learn. i was quiet for a while, but then began to write, for writing is what i do. and i spilled much into these joni streets back then. i cannot take it back, because it's out there, floating in cyber space, but geeze, i guess that's another one of those lessons eh ;-) like catherine mckay, i used to write a lot more, and now i don't. and having a big break from a lot of things, i'm finding my energy realigning to a place where writing now and again feels pretty good. sometimes, this list feels like a bit of a journal, a communicado between friends. i've met and grown to love and honour many of the list members, and that's what happens when you attend joni fests. it's incredible, magic. alas and alack, everything comes and goes, marked by lovers and styles of clothes. i no longer wear my doc martens, however, i'm surrounded by laughter, love and good friends. i've worn my life on this list like some banner, and suddenly realized that was probably not the best thing for me to do. but them's the brakes, and not that i am comparing myself to joni, but that's the kind of banter that comes out of me. the personal stuff. because i am interested in the grass roots dig down deep stuff of life, and the people in it. anyway, jimmy is a love, and has been one i've admired for all these years. his kindness and welcome not only made me feel all warm and fuzzy, he encouraged me to post, and for that, i'm ever grateful. i love ed too btw ;-) and your best friend david, a namesake for my brother, the love and kindness he has shown me during those times of my dave, well, i'll carry that always, too. gah. enough said lol! i love that when i read the words of those i know, i can hear their voices. mags, fighting down the golden rod* i exist as i am, that is enough ~walt whitman~ __________________________________________________________________ Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:20:46 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: jonifest blues Jeff wrote: But the fest was more than the sum of its parts, more than the music even. I realized last night after writing only about the music that we're talking about a different experience. I had not felt it during the french fest as i was too busy with details. But this time it felt like what i have read about the jewish chabath: the feeling of being away from all daily and wordly concerns and being immersed in more spiritual (and of course musical) concerns. In fact, i am experiencing for the 1st time the post fest blues which has been written about in previous years. So last night i listened to Christina & Henning cds and also Bob's Sweet Sixteen. I'm sure rave reviews must have been written before by Bob and others when they came out. My 2 cents are that what we have here are known and unreleased Joni songs performed in the Joni spirit but with contemporary arrangements. Bottom line is: it's like discovering an unreleased album in the vaults, with great songs. A must for Joni fans IMHO More info at www.bigyellowtaxi.dk Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:15:28 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: privacy, njc Wie Laura Stanley so vortrefflich formulierte: > Moni wrote: > > What I ask myself is why hundreds of people here on this list do not > care about their privacy. > > > Hi Moni, > > It might be better to ask the hundreds of people on this list if they > care about their privacy, and if they don't, then ask them "why" > rather than asking yourself... I mean how could you be expected to > answer that question? > > Love, Laura > I am sorry if my English as a foreign speaker doesn't hold up 100% all the time. As the subject has come up before (and was largely ignored) I therefore concluded that people do not care much about privacy because otherwise they would either not write anything personal or object to having their personal thoughts indexed by Google search. By writing what I did write I thought I was asking the members on the list in case they do not object to maybe enlighten me, why that is. I apologize for having not used the correct phrasing by writing "I ask myself" if that is misleading. moni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:10:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: River Ah, River, a song that is close to my heart. It was one of the first few songs I really connected with that so pulled me into my Joni journey as I like to call it. Anyhow, when I first got into Joni (a couple years back now before Xmas) I remember seeing "River" on all sorts of Christmas lists. At first it angered me so! I realized the song is NOT a Christmas song and anyone who would take such a moving, intense song like "River" and associate it with the wonderful, happy time of Christmas really wasn't paying attention to the words. Sure it mentions Christmas and brings up images of the cold and decorations and such but when you get down to it, that is really the background of the song. It is not the entire picture! It is not particularly a carol, eh? Anyhow, I don't get angered by that anymore. The more recognition Joni gets for her music, the better. Put it on every Christmas list and Christmas cd. Lord knows it is a million times better than any actual happy, dappy Christmas song. In my honest opinion, the minute a song is actually about Christmas, it becomes sort of lame. I love that Joni could evoke Christmas related images in such a beautiful way without making her song cheesy.... - -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:25:17 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: cookbook and privacy concerns Wie Jerry Notaro so vortrefflich formulierte: > Did you find the cookbook using Google? No. > Is that what you are saying? No. That is not what I was trying to say. > I was unaware it was posted anywhere and that it can be freely > downloaded. If that is true, please let us know so I don't need to > personally send it out one by one which is what I have been doing for > all these years. If it isn't, then your comparison doesn't fly. > > Jerry I was not aware that my words were related to the cookbook issue at all other than I replied to a message thread that has it in the subject line. moni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:22:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Strathmore Joni Tribute Me! Me! Me! (he said jumping about)... Hi Ronnie, thanks for the post and congratulations on the tremendous show. Of my many obsessions, Joni covers are right there on the tippy top of the heap. (I also manage the JoniUndercover database on the site). I have quite a collection of audio and video and would love to add this show to it. Please keep us posted. Bob NP: Patti Smith, "Waiting Underground" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:37:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Jonifest 2008 & Dutchfest 2008 I made it back LATE last night after 24 straight hours of travel, I have a long weekend ahead and LOTS of reporting to do, so stay tuned for that. First I have to go to the airport and file a claim for my bag which didn't make it from Chicago... In the meantime, here is a lovely picture of me and my Dutch brother John van Tiel who showed me an amazing time in the land of the dykes - more (much more) about that & Jonifest later today. Here we are in Amsterdam, having just finished a couple beverages and a walking tour of Amsterdam, waiting on a railcar: https://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01FT0NjR3M5bEEwTVE9PQ Bob, the beamingly happy guy in the orange shirt who is not afraid of keeping his privacy because putting my heart out to you all has paid back more than I ever could have imagined. (That being said I do respect the wishes of those who want to retain their privacy). NP: Iris Koch, "Marcie" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:35:40 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Covers, Volume #103 & More Covers hi bob wrote > Ron Greer (missing in action) missing, but not totally out of action :-) came across this covers site (which i guess bob's already familiar with) if you scroll down you'll find some joni covers - already in the database & around halfway down theres a write up on joni, specifically on covers of river, and there are links two joni duets - "you can close your eyes" with james taylor, & "girl from the north county" with johnny cash. (video also on youtube) ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:03:07 -0700 From: Russell Bowden Subject: since you brought it up again Gang, Privacy between hundreds of people??? Kate, Michael F. and Jerry N..... I appreciate your thoughtful and level-headed concerns (I'm always open to constructive criticism) and thank you for it. So, it's off ebay, however, I will be receiving one of the books and I swear to whomever that I won't post it on the net or share info outside the MANY people who divulge personal concerns on a nearly daily basis to the WORLD WIDE internet. Besides, I'm in it and I like to cook. Love, Russ Mischief Managed _________________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yaho o_082008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:11:46 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Privacy concerns, NJC Moni, I understand your hesitations. I googled myself the other day and found a couple of my inputs to the list. Strangely enough, just a couple, and no-one knows why those and not others. Anyway, I was surprised because I did not know that conversations on the list are archived and available through google. And I was not thrilled, either. It's like you said, the things you say on the list are meant for group members only. I don't mind strangers to me finding my thoughts on joni matters or even private matters but I would mind if my neighbours or students did! My point: I would like to share confidences and opinions with friends and keep acquaintances at a certain distance. A complete stranger whom I have never met and never will meet can't do anything with the information they get but people who actually know who you are can. So I support your request to make the list unavailable to google searches. A little paranoia can go a long way:-) Marion ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:14:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: privacy, njc Hi Moni, No apology really needed. What is "private" is a matter of opinion. I care about my privacy, but my definition of what is private might not be yours. So if I post something personal it doesn't necessarily mean I don't care about my privacy... it might mean instead I don't consider a particular personal thing private. Love, Laura - --- On Fri, 8/29/08, Moni Kellermann wrote: > From: Moni Kellermann > Subject: Re: privacy, njc > To: "Laura Stanley" , joni@smoe.org > Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 1:15 PM > Wie Laura Stanley so vortrefflich formulierte: > > Moni wrote: > > > > What I ask myself is why hundreds of people here on > this list do not > > care about their privacy. > > > > > > Hi Moni, > > > > It might be better to ask the hundreds of people on > this list if they > > care about their privacy, and if they don't, then > ask them "why" > > rather than asking yourself... I mean how could you be > expected to > > answer that question? > > > > Love, Laura > > > > I am sorry if my English as a foreign speaker doesn't > hold up 100% all > the time. > > As the subject has come up before (and was largely ignored) > I therefore > concluded that people do not care much about privacy > because otherwise > they would either not write anything personal or object to > having their > personal thoughts indexed by Google search. > > By writing what I did write I thought I was asking the > members on the > list in case they do not object to maybe enlighten me, why > that is. > > I apologize for having not used the correct phrasing by > writing "I ask > myself" if that is misleading. > > moni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:01:06 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Jonifest 2008 & Dutchfest 2008 GREAT pic Bob, thanks for sending it. Can't wait to hear all about Amsterdam! Tushie >>> Bob Muller 8/29/2008 8:37 AM >>> I made it back LATE last night after 24 straight hours of travel, I have a long weekend ahead and LOTS of reporting to do, so stay tuned for that. First I have to go to the airport and file a claim for my bag which didn't make it from Chicago... In the meantime, here is a lovely picture of me and my Dutch brother John van Tiel who showed me an amazing time in the land of the dykes - more (much more) about that & Jonifest later today. Here we are in Amsterdam, having just finished a couple beverages and a walking tour of Amsterdam, waiting on a railcar: https://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01FT0NjR3M5bEEwTVE9PQ Bob, the beamingly happy guy in the orange shirt who is not afraid of keeping his privacy because putting my heart out to you all has paid back more than I ever could have imagined. (That being said I do respect the wishes of those who want to retain their privacy). NP: Iris Koch, "Marcie" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:28:32 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Jonifest 2008 & Dutchfest 2008 I know this guy. He gave me a wonderful tour of Amsterdam and an amazing lunch and of course such great company. Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Aug 29, 2008, at 8:37 AM, Bob Muller wrote: I made it back LATE last night after 24 straight hours of travel, I have a long weekend ahead and LOTS of reporting to do, so stay tuned for that. First I have to go to the airport and file a claim for my bag which didn't make it from Chicago... In the meantime, here is a lovely picture of me and my Dutch brother John van Tiel who showed me an amazing time in the land of the dykes - more (much more) about that & Jonifest later today. Here we are in Amsterdam, having just finished a couple beverages and a walking tour of Amsterdam, waiting on a railcar: https://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01FT0NjR3M5bEEwTVE9PQ Bob, the beamingly happy guy in the orange shirt who is not afraid of keeping his privacy because putting my heart out to you all has paid back more than I ever could have imagined. (That being said I do respect the wishes of those who want to retain their privacy). NP: Iris Koch, "Marcie" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:09:25 -0400 From: Vince Subject: Re: Privacy concerns, NJC So I support your request to make the list unavailable to google searches. So would I. Vince On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Marion Leffler wrote: > Moni, I understand your hesitations. I googled myself the other day and > found a couple of my inputs to the list. Strangely enough, just a couple, > and no-one knows why those and not others. Anyway, I was surprised because > I > did not know that conversations on the list are archived and available > through google. And I was not thrilled, either. It's like you said, the > things you say on the list are meant for group members only. I don't mind > strangers to me finding my thoughts on joni matters or even private matters > but I would mind if my neighbours or students did! My point: I would like > to > share confidences and opinions with friends and keep acquaintances at a > certain distance. A complete stranger whom I have never met and never will > meet can't do anything with the information they get but people who > actually > know who you are can. So I support your request to make the list > unavailable > to google searches. A little paranoia can go a long way:-) > > > > Marion ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:34:11 +0100 From: Lucy Hone Subject: Re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? HI everyone Recovering from Post FEST blues and saw this thread, replying on the back of the lovely Jimmy's mail...hello Ed also and Belated Happy Birthday to Mingus too xxxxxxxxxxx to you David and to David as well! Kisses and hugs all round! I joined the JMDL on, I think, Xmas Eve 2002. I had, as I have many times in my life thought I ought to learn a few more songs and having got back into listeing to (old) Joni during 2000 after a long period of adjustment in my life. I thought to my self hmmmmmmmm, I would like to play "Circle Game" and "Little Green" maybe someone out there has heard of Joni still and maybe someone might have a few details of her songs! - for someone so gregarious you would have thought I had all sorts of knowledge but I am very lazy in some ways. I had also not really used the search facilites of the web that much and So, hesitantly, I put thw words into a search engine... Blimey! what a shock I got. thousands of mentions of Joni, and the JMDL was there. I grtabbed the songs before my system crashed and then signed up for the digest and here I have been ever since. I lurk, I post - usually about non joni things - I have been to three fests because Joni people are an interesting, warm and intelligent bunch of people. First Fest in 2003 was astonishing and I have great memories of it all. French FEst, 2005, was again an wonderful gathering of people and talents, just as in the US...and the most recent Fest in the UK was no different. Lovely people, staggering talent. I am not a Joni-aholic, and have never done the "need to know everything about her" or any other artist I like for that matter. I love the humanity, the occasional whackiness, the arguments, the high dudgeon that is taken, the real caring that goes on here. I have to say I do not devour every digest - too busy (sometimes life and love get in the way - a favourite line from Judi Tzuke). What I do appreciate is that this is a virtual community and it has its virtual fluctuations; immigrants and emigrants,long stay visitors, temporary tourists, agitators, pacifists and constant stalwarts. Like any neighbourhood you find people you gel with, those you will be on nodding terms with, those who you might seek to avoid if possible. I think that the searching for things Joni becomes secondary to some of us, myself included. It's the changing patterns of our lives that hold us here, or not and for me I am a resident of this valley having hitch hiked here on the whitelines of the free way with NO regrets Coyote! - see I even sort of like Hejira as an album now! NPIMH memories of UK Joni Fest 2008. Lucy, sometimes Queen Lulu of England, sometimes just plain daft! xxxxx Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:58:47 EDT >From: FMYFL@aol.com >Subject: Re: njc when did you join the JMDL and how did you find it? > >It was about the same for me, Vince. I found JoniMitchell.com back in '97. My >best friend David Mingus (who's birthday was yesterday) was/is a bigger fan >of Joni than I am. He didn't have a computer, so I would print off all the >Joni Bio pages for him to read. I knew about the JMDL, but didn't join until Jan >or Feb. '98 when Wally announced a Joni writing contest. Mingus wanted to >write a story, but you had to belong to the JMDL in order to enter. So I joined >and David was able to submit his story on my computer. I just read the digests >and never posted for several months. It was prior to the Joni/ Dylan tour that >I started posting. Wally had asked Pearl, Mingus, and I to photograph her >Atlanta concert which was on her birthday. I missed the JMDL get-together prior >to the concert since we had stage passes and were setting up our photography >equipment. So, I just got to meet Pearl and Marsha Doyle (remember her??? sour >grapes. LOL) It was exciting leaning on the stage watching Joni, even though >my good camera's battery was dead!!! I just pretended to take pics, but David >and Pearl got some good shots. I just wish I would have listened to Pearl and >gone to the hotel where Joni was staying, and I could have had my photo taken >with Joni just like Muller. > >I don't post that much anymore due to time, threads I've seen many times, and >the fact that Joni hasn't toured. Still, after 10 yrs on this list, I've met >so many wonderful people at several Jonifests, I still stay. > >Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:38:28 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Privacy concerns, NJC I second that! > So I support your request to make the list unavailable > to google searches. > > So would I. > > Vince > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Marion Leffler > wrote: > >> Moni, I understand your hesitations. I googled myself the other day and >> found a couple of my inputs to the list. Strangely enough, just a couple, >> and no-one knows why those and not others. Anyway, I was surprised because >> I >> did not know that conversations on the list are archived and available >> through google. And I was not thrilled, either. It's like you said, the >> things you say on the list are meant for group members only. I don't mind >> strangers to me finding my thoughts on joni matters or even private matters >> but I would mind if my neighbours or students did! My point: I would like >> to >> share confidences and opinions with friends and keep acquaintances at a >> certain distance. A complete stranger whom I have never met and never will >> meet can't do anything with the information they get but people who >> actually >> know who you are can. So I support your request to make the list >> unavailable >> to google searches. A little paranoia can go a long way:-) >> >> >> >> Marion ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:59:43 +0200 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: NJC privacy Hi Kate and the rest, I've contributed to the privacy discussion before, here are my views, they are issues that I think others should think about as well. I work at a university, and I know for a fact that teachers google their students and students google their teachers or search for their facebook or MySpace profiles or any blogs that they may have. I am sure that it is the same in other professions, if you people have clients or neighbours or whatever, they will eventually look you up, especially those who habour any kind of strong feelings for you, admiration, love, hate, whatever. Jilted lovers, your ex-lover's new lover, or just colleagues who you'd not like to have an intimate personal relationship with but who for some reason are curious about you. The kind of persons in your surroundings that you'd normally keep at a comfortable distance can go on the internet and find all the stuff you wouldn't tell them in private. I've explained the following to a few other people, but here goes. When I first signed up I was in a pretty bad state, partly because someone had broken my heart. I wanted to talk to people about something ELSE, but obviously had to go and mention his name in appr. the third email I sent to the list, because he is an outstanding singer. It was over between us, and I was not interested in appearing as being obsessed with him - since I was trying to lose that obsession. I wrote about his music, feeling sure that this was an email list, and I had never heard of emails that were googleable. I soon realized that they were, so I changed my email address and stopped signing as Benedicte (nowadays I care less!). I had written several emails under my old name, and I cannot understand how it is that, lo and behold! even today, when I google my own name and Joni, ALL that comes up are the two posts I wrote mentioning him! When I realized that my posts could be read by others I felt somewhat betrayed, because I had not been warned about this. Yes, anyone who wants to find out about you will find out, and there are hundreds of people on this list who will read your personal stuff, etc. Yet if the list was not public they'd have to sign up first and then start googling. It's like your front door: anyone who wants to get in will get in, but if you lock it, fewer people will even try. If you leave it open they may think you are in fact an exhibitionist. These are my thoughts....! Love, Bene ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:31:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: privacy, njc I've been watching the posts about privacy concerns and so on, wondering what I really think about it. As so often happens, I look at things from both sides and have difficulty landing squarely on either side of the fence, so I think I'll just sit on it for now. It doesn't bother me as much as it does some people, I guess, despite my having put out there some stuff that is probably pretty personal. There are certain topics I would not discuss on a list like this, my job being one (besides possibly putting myself in a bad way if I said anything negative about my job, I would also risk boring the crap out of everyone.) I have googled my own name and came up with stuff from the jmdl, but also stuff about other people who happen to have the same name as mine, since mine is a fairly common name. I have no idea how stuff gets on google. I have also wondered why google chooses the particular things it does, since a few jmdl discussions I've been part of will show up on a google search, but these are only a few of very many. So why those particular posts? I think the jmdl serves not only as a way of people discussing with other people the works of Joni Mitchell, but also a lot of very personal stuff and that may be because her music does affect us so profoundly and I think that most of us are probably deep thinkers who see the interconnectedness of things and see many links between what Joni puts into words and the truths of our own lives. The jmdl is also a bit of a research tool, though so, if you cut it off (take it off a google search for example), then you are also closing off that research section that covers discussions about Joni's lyrics, her life and so on. You could possibly put the Joni-only stuff out there and make it searchable, but that wouldn't eliminate all of the personal stuff. So, if it came down to a vote of whether the archive should or should not be searchable, I would have a hard time making that decision. P.S. I did understand the "ask myself" thing since I have studied other languages and although I've forgotten how to say it in German, I do know that the French for "wonder" is "se demander", which means "to ask oneself." - --- On Fri, 8/29/08, Laura Stanley wrote: > > No apology really needed. > > What is "private" is a matter of opinion. I > care about my privacy, but my definition of what is private > might not be yours. So if I post something personal it > doesn't necessarily mean I don't care about my > privacy... it might mean instead I don't consider a > particular personal thing private. > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:43:49 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: jonifest Hi all, Another Jonifest over. When's the next one? I had the fortune of heading to Cambridge with Chris following the fest. This way, I didn't have to deal with them auld post fest blues alone. Yesterday we had a lovely day at Anglesey Abbey in Cambridge. Today, back to work. Oh man the tiredness!! Speaking of post-fest blues, that part actually really sucks. I was overcome by these shifting states of emotion on Monday that i found difficult to name. Ooohhhh. I've really enjoyed reading the reports sent in, so thanks to you all for that. I do not think i can match them. There are so many wonderful memories that i don't know where to start. this email is really just a reflection of whatever comes to mind. Performances of Dry Cleaner, Hejira, River, Blue, Dreamland, Dog Eat Dog, Talk to Me, Carey, Borderline, Black Crow (oh this was soooo much fun!!), All I Want, Born to take the highway, Dr. Junk, Yvette In English.... and these are just some of the Joni songs that knocked me socks off. Yis've heard about the beatles songs and so much more already. The venue was beautiful. I'll have photos up in a day or so, so you can see the beauty of this place for yourself. Holycombe is the perfect fest venue. It is pretty and intimate, and is in walking distance (5? 10 mins) to the town of whichford, with its norman church (st. michael's), beautiful houses, a cute pub selling the local beer druid's fluid- all in typical cotswold style. When Lucy said she had found the perfect venue she was not lying. HOlycombe used to be a scarap yard, a local eyesore. Now, it has two cottages and a studio, a pond (with ducks and all), an orchard, a stone cricle, and a moat, and plenty of open space. I thought the buildings were cute, each bedroom was unique, and the angel room, which became our performance space, was a perfect size for our group. It was wonderful meeting up with all of those that i've met before and putting faces to names and, in some cases, meeting people i did not know from the list. Hanging out with Chris, Mike, Lucy, Bob, Patrick - - you guys make me laugh. this is no easy task given that i'm a grumpy fecker;-) One thing we tend not to mention too often about joni fans is the filthy senses of humour they have;-) Getting to meet Jeff was an immense pleasure. I wish we'd chatted more. When the recordings of fest emerge i think everyone on the list should listen to this man's music. I'd love to hear recordings. I know i must have said that to you a whole lot (not that i was counting but it was about 1,312 times i'd say) over the weekend Jeff, but i really meant it. The Vow was stunningly beautiful, and i think it's a song i'd like to sing at some point to someone special. The superman song struck a chord and the song the Marine, well, i would like to say how priveleged i felt listening to you sit with Dave and sing it early on monday. The great paragraph: Putting faces to Bene and Oddmund was great, Oddmund's energy and Bene's calm conversation - these are some very cool people; getting to know Anita a little more was great - thanks for that conversation, you know the one; making John's acquaintance and laughing about - well, maybe i should not say here, lol, but i'm sure you know what i'm talking about if i say "dirty buggers, you don't have to pay for that" - was great. John there are websites; Lieve, a great and gentle wit as ever who gave a great speech to thank Lucy and John; Donna - i'm looking forward to reading the book, it was great to sit with you and swap accents; Adriano and Liccia (sorry for the spelling) - you two stunned me with your performances, i know we did not get to speak very much but seeing you guys perform *nearly* made me want to get up and sing! and the rose, well, it's great; Henning, king of the beatles sing a long, it was great to hear you perform; Steph you had such a calm presence - and i loved your great 80s haircut in the pictures;-) Laurent, we did not chat a huge amount either - great song choices. Delene i enjoyed your musical contributions - when you played the Dulcimer i thought you were going to take flight; Barry Cahill - Cahill - Cahill (try it the irish way;-) your music added a new layer to the rich musical experience over the weekend. Cristina singing the gift of the magi - i will be first in line to hear this one when it emerges from the recordings, that was spectacular. You have a wonderful voice. I have been listening to your albums, you and Henning really rock. I was playing the Treasures of Joni Mitchell cd at home this morning and my housemate was loving it. Les Ross treated us to a short song session that made hairs stand on end, not to mention providing many laughs. . Robin, you impressed us all. Your voice, your presence, your ability to stay up so late!! I'm happy to have met you. And Dave. Mr Music Man himself. Thanks for the fun guys. I could not possibly mention everything that made an impression across the weekend but i hope i've managed to give a flavour of how it was for me. The chatter, the singing, the comfort and the peace of the weekend will stay with me. Now, gotta go and pick up some ingredients. Talk to yis later, GARRET NP - just hearing the sounds of the computer room around. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:46:55 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: jonifest Oh - and how could i forget to mention the fun of Robin's birthday, Lucy and John posing when they were given gifts from the gang, and the late late last night! Oh that was fun. Lots of beautiful, if drunken, singing (that bottle of vodka was a good idea damnit;-) And then the induction dance. I have never laughed so hard. Tears were falling from my chin!! Great stuff. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:46:26 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: cookbook and privacy concerns I don't object to what Moni, Marian & Bene are asking. I was trying to make an entirely different point in case this is not possible. Which is to encourage people to share their thoughts on this list who say they are unwilling if this is a public list, by pointing out the similarities between Joni's public openness & that of this list. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:32:08 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: cookbook and privacy concerns Writing what I feel now fixes it in your mind even though tomorrow I've already moved on I am not what I was yesterday but people remember me especially if I hurt them said something wrong I do not want to be remembered by the words I write, the things I say I am growing and changing every day I am not what I said or wrote before I am not the mistakes I made I am what I learned thereby and what I am now today which if I wrote it down would be fixed in your mind even though tomorrow I will have moved on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: RE: cookbook and privacy concerns >I don't object to what Moni, Marian & Bene are asking. I was trying to >make > an entirely different point in case this is not possible. Which is to > encourage people to share their thoughts on this list who say they are > unwilling if this is a public list, by pointing out the similarities > between > Joni's public openness & that of this list. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:05:33 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Joni's lyrics and psychological aspects In a certain branch of psychology, the thinking is that people have different ways of being in the world. Some people relate to the world in a primarily visual way, for others their sense of hearing is predominant, for others the sense of touch is most important. I am wondering if we can deduce anything about Joni from the lyrics of her songs. For example, the song For The Roses seems to me to be very auditory - I heard it in the wind last night it sounded like applause but also tactile and visual - chilly now, end of summer, no more shiny hot nights again auditory, but also visual: it's just the arbutus rustling and the bumping of the logs then again visual: and the moon swept down black water\ like an empty spotlight Does anyone have any thoughts about describing the lyrics of Joni's songs in this way? Are their other aspects (e.g., sense of taste) that appear in her lyrics? Marian ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #184 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------