From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #179 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, August 26 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 179 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! ["Marian Russell" ] Re: JMDL Cookbook ["Marian Russell" ] Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! [David Eoll ] Re: JMDL Cookbook [Catherine McKay ] Re: Kay's playing out [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! ["Randy Remote" ] Re: UK JoniFest [Michael Paz ] Fw: Book on Ebay ["Marian Russell" ] Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! ["Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! I didn't know that the book had had a special printing for the 2003 Jonifest. The description sounds really nice, with hardcover and Claude's 2003 Jonifest logo on the back cover. I would be interested to hear about the 2003 reproductions. Did everyone who attended the 2003 get one? were they prizes? maybe they were sold for the cost of the reproduction (a cost which I think would be okay)? The JMDL Cookbook is really great, IMO. The recipe names and bios are very entertaining to read and the recipes are great. The idea for the cookbook was conceived by Julie Z. Webb (who hosted the very first Jonifest ever in Pittsburg) and Bev (the Fishpond) who is, among other things, a very talented photographer (sent me some amazing concert photos of Jonatha Brooke). The cover was designed by Don Rowe and displayed a great portrait of Joni painted by Marilyn Urbanski. Jerry Notaro helped with the editing. I haven't seen some of these names on the list for a long time and I miss them. Marian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Gross" To: ; "'Michael Flaherty'" ; "'Jerry Notaro'" ; ; "'Joni List'" ; "Marian Russell" Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:42 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > Marian wrote (in part): > >> The book is indeed a copy. There are only four originals - >> one that got sent >> to Joni and three that were given as gifts or prizes at the >> 1998 (or was it >> 1999) Jonifest (to Ashara, John van Tiel, and Bern). I >> don''t even have an >> original copy in the original binding because I >> couldn't find another binder >> like the ones that were exact duplicates of Joni's. >> Every other version that >> isn't in these original bindings is a copy that someone >> printed out themselves >> from a Word or .pdf file and bound in some manner of their >> choosing, the one >> on eBay being one of those. The understanding with which >> the Word and .pdf >> files were distributed was that any printed copies would be >> made for the >> personal use of the persons to who they were distributed >> and not for >> publication or sale. > > I pulled my copy from the shelf and it is a stiff cover and spiral bound > edition with the following on the outside of the back cover: > > "(Jonifest 2003 logo) > > First published in 1999 and presented to Joni as a gift, this limited > edition reproduction celebrates Northeast Jonifest 2003. August 8-11 at > Full Moon Resort in Oliverea, New York. > > Jonifest 2003 logo by Claudia SanSoucie" (and a beautiful logo it is!) > > Yes, there's a lot of personal information in these pages, but no more > than could be gleaned by someone with the time and inclination to dive > into the smoe archives. > > If the copy for sale is a photocopied or printed MSWord document, that's > just wrong. But if it's one of these Jonifest editions, I don't see that > we have grounds to stop its sale. > > I'm neither a lawyer nor a librarian, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn in > Pittsburgh last week. ;-) > > Brian, back to deep lurkdom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:06:21 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! From: "Marian Russell" > The understanding with which the Word and .pdf files were distributed was > that > any printed copies would be made for the personal use of the persons > .......... to whom ......... they were distributed and not for publication > or > sale. Which means that it falls under the "fair use" policies of US copyright law, and as such is no different than any other book sold by a used bookseller. I don't see what the big deal is. This is like finding one at a garage sale. If the person selling had more than one, it might mean something shady was going on. RR, contributor, "You're So Squares", a recipe I keep losing myself. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:32:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Randy, This has nothing to do with Fair Use. A used book sold by a bookseller means the original rights holder(s) were initially compensated by assigning license to the publisher. This makes it "legally acquired." That was never done in this case. It is the same as if you gave a tape of your original songs to someone and they tried to sell it without your permission. Jerry Randy Remote wrote: > From: "Marian Russell" >> The understanding with which the Word and .pdf files were distributed >> was >> that >> any printed copies would be made for the personal use of the persons >> .......... to whom ......... they were distributed and not for >> publication >> or >> sale. > > Which means that it falls under the "fair use" policies of US > copyright law, and as such is no different than any other book > sold by a used bookseller. > I don't see what the big deal is. This is like finding one at a garage > sale. If the person selling had more than one, it might mean something > shady was going on. > RR, contributor, "You're So Squares", a recipe I keep losing myself. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:37:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! I have it in Word. I've sent Richard a copy. If anyone else wants the file, email me. Jerry Richard Flynn wrote: > Wish I'd been around then. I like to cook. It may not be beautiful, but > I'd love a pdf if it isn't too much trouble. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jerry > Notaro > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:32 PM > To: Loren Carter; Marian Russell; Joni List > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > Yes. I'd like to add it is definitely WORTH that much. They are beautiful. > I > treasure my copy. I can't imagine anyone giving theirs away. > > Jerry > > >> Marian, >> >> I would love to have a copy of the PDF of the cookbook, but if I can get > the >> one from eBay off the streets, then I won't need it. But, let's see >> what >> happens when the dust settles from the eBay front. If it turns out that > the >> bidding gets too stupid or combative, I'll be back at your door, with my > hat >> in my hand. But for now, let's wait to see what the future holds. >> >> thanks for the offer, >> Loren >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Marian Russell >> To: Loren Carter ; Joni List >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:39:53 PM >> Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >> >> Hi Loren - >> >> It is very kind of you to offer to bid for this book, within reason. >> However, I can send you the .pdf file if you want it (it would be a >> whole >> lot cheaper for you!). >> >> I will let everyone know what, if anything, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Loren Carter" >> To: "Joni List" >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:32 PM >> Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >> >> >>> All, >>> >>> To keep the book out of the "public domain", I'm prepared to big a >>> stupid >>> amount to keep it "just among friends" (if I can be so pretentious). >>> >>> I'm always looking for something "Joni" to give to my wife. And I'll >>> keep >>> an eye on this, to safeguard and to keep our family together. Unless >>> someone else on the list wants it. I've heard and read of its' >>> existence, >>> but have never seen a copy. >>> >>> I'll let everyone know if I'm lucky enough to "win" it. If eBay pulls > it, >>> there's no worry. But if the sale continues I'll do my best (within >>> reason) to get it. >>> >>> humbly, >>> Loren >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Marian Russell >>> To: Michael Flaherty ; Jerry Notaro >>> ; Merk54@aol.com; Joni List >>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:32:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >>> >>> I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to >>> complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the > violation >>> is. >>> Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and >>> accommodating. >>> >>> Marian >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Michael Flaherty >>> To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List >>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM >>> Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >>> >>> >>>> .This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It >>> was >>> never meant to be made available to the public. >>> >>> How can it be pulled??? >>> >>> Marian >>> >>> - >>> >>> Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would >>> probably >>> be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page >>> there >>> is a >>> link for reporting the listing. >>> >>> As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it >>> to >>> her. >>> >>> Michael Flaherty >>> (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth >>> saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:57:15 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: JMDL Cookbook This is a fine kettle of fish. I just read the Ebay entry....it's interesting certainly. The seller is listed as 'Memy's Books' who (apparently) also has a 'bookshelf' on a Facebook-style site for social bibliophiles. She's a young Kuwaiti girl.... my, this book has traveled.... anyone who want's to communicate with her circuitously could join this site and add her as a friend...just search 'Memy's books' Don't bid against yourselfves...Currently there have been 4 bids, at about $26, with 2 days and some hours left. I never submitted a recipe, but since I had been considering my 'Hot Dog on a Twinkie' perhaps that's for the best. Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:08:37 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook Are you sure about the Facebook-style site thing, Chuck? I think the seller's name is: m e r r y s books (not m e m y's) Awww, I would have loved to have tried your hot dog twinkie thing, but what lyrics would you have used for the name???? Marian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Eisenhardt" To: Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:57 PM Subject: JMDL Cookbook > This is a fine kettle of fish. I just read the Ebay entry....it's > interesting certainly. > > The seller is listed as 'Memy's Books' who (apparently) also has a > 'bookshelf' on a > Facebook-style site for social bibliophiles. She's a young Kuwaiti > girl.... my, > this book has traveled.... anyone who want's to communicate with her > circuitously could > join this site and add her as a fri end...just search 'Memy's books' > > Don't bid against yourselfves...Currently there have been 4 bids, at > about $26, > with 2 days and some hours left. > > I never submitted a recipe, but since I had been considering my 'Hot Dog > on a Twinkie' > perhaps that's for the best. > > Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:13:09 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! (NJC) That particular version of the cookbook is one (of 60 or 75 or so) that I printed and bound myself for the 2003 Jonifest. They were intended as "give aways" at that festival. I also tried to object to the listing on eBay, but there's not really a proper category for objecting. I'm not sure there's much that can be done about it. Perhaps writing directly to the seller would be a better tactic. (Guilt works, sometimes.) Lori Santa Rosa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:10:08 -0400 From: "Rob Argento" Subject: RE: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Well, in THAT case this is a true illegal reproduction. When EBay contacts you b you can even argue that it is a FORGERY of a valuable piece in that only four originals were made and one presented to Joni herself. Maybe it wasnbt such a good idea to spread the PDF. The fact that the PDF (or was it a WORD file) was distributed only recently could possibly imply that the current seller knows more about this then is admitted. The seller even writes in the description bIf there was a title page, it is not here. I am only assuming this book has no ISBN or copyright.b Methinks he doth protest too much. But Wait! b but now Brian writes that there are printed editions from Jonifest 2003. Can it be one of those? The plot thickens! /Robban From: Marian Russell [mailto:marian@jmdl.com] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:44 PM To: Marian Russell; robert@argento.se; 'Michael Flaherty'; 'Jerry Notaro'; Merk54@aol.com; 'Joni List' Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! The understanding with which the Word and .pdf files were distributed was that any printed copies would be made for the personal use of the persons .......... to whom ......... they were distributed and not for publication or sale. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Marian Russell To: robert@argento.se ; 'Michael Flaherty' ; 'Jerry Notaro' ; Merk54@aol.com ; 'Joni List' Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:38 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! The book is indeed a copy. There are only four originals - one that got sent to Joni and three that were given as gifts or prizes at the 1998 (or was it 1999) Jonifest (to Ashara, John van Tiel, and Bern). I don''t even have an original copy in the original binding because I couldn't find another binder like the ones that were exact duplicates of Joni's. Every other version that isn't in these original bindings is a copy that someone printed out themselves from a Word or .pdf file and bound in some manner of their choosing, the one on eBay being one of those. The understanding with which the Word and .pdf files were distributed was that any printed copies would be made for the personal use of the persons to who they were distributed and not for publication or sale. Jerry's point seems to be that these are, in any case, copyrighted by virtue of having been printed and that no one other than the compiler/contributors has the right to print or copy them for sale. I really don't know what the exact laws are, if any, that should apply here and will be grateful for any input to provide as arguments if/when eBay contacts me. Marian - ---- Original Message ----- From: Rob Argento To: Marian Russell ; 'Michael Flaherty' ; 'Jerry Notaro' ; Merk54@aol.com ; 'Joni List' Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! You may be right. I have not seen the book and am not in it but i can appreciate the feelings involved. I mean only to point out the legal aspects of it all and that Ebay is probably not going to take anyone personal feelings into account. I am sure that the person that presently owns it also has feelings in the matter, albeit not personal, but still. Loren's suggestion is probably the best - to outbid everyone else and take it out of circulation - until the next one turns up that is. The tapes and Bob's cover compilations are a bit different. They are legal but "boarderline". While the songs/arrangements are protected by copyrights and such, we may use these personally but are breaking some law if we sell them to others. We all know that and have respected the rules there.This book is not a copy but rather an "original" first and only edition. Now concerning the PDF-edition that some of us have, that may very well be another story. /Robban On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:27:49 +0200 "Marian Russell" wrote: > Well, if you were in the book, maybe you would feel >differently? I don't really like the idea that non-JMDL >people have access to all the personal bios of the >contributors, and I made the complaint to ebay as the >compiler on behalf of other contributors who might also >feel worried about this. > > What is the difference between this and tape tree items >that have hit ebay? This seems about as bad to me. I >guess the only difference is that it's the JMDL >contributors who are the victims vs. Joni and her music. > > I tried to email the seller, but I have to get access to >my ebay account first and I can't remember my password. > I'm not mad at the seller, just worried that this is >being sold at all - it was never meant for that. I think >it would be at least polite to also contact the seller >and explain the situation, maybe see if some agreement >could be reached with the seller to remove the item. > > Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:15:24 +0100 From: Leslie Ross Subject: UK JoniFest 'ello everybod well, that's another 'fest under the belt. a blinder there's always a 'most valued player' for me at these fests. last year that honor fell to angela gold and her seemling endless knowledge of songs. previous honorees being victor victorola johnson. this year we can point readily at david blackburn, in from california with his wife robin, as simply brilliant performers and generous help to all the rest of us in need of musical support. in fact, from thursday evening kick-off when david, robin and their friends cahill and delene started the first of nightly sets, it was clear we were being gifted with some stellar musicianship. dave's arrangements (mostly in standard tuning, i might add......) of joni's songs were just superb. robin's singing, eloquent and beautiful. the venue was outstanding. set in the english cotswolds, a truly inspired choice by queen lulu (lucy hone). honey coloured stone buildings set in rolling english hills. quintessentially english and a delight. and as always at the jonifests, a terrific musical experience. i don't know where to begin. there was such a staggering range of simply wonderful performances both 'staged' and informal. for instance, nearly all of saturday afternoon was turned over to beatles songs played by henning olsen and dave blackburn and sung along to in amazing harmony by the rest of us. it was magical. dave caught all these on a digital recorder. i heard some of the playback and it's really really good! dave is going to do production magic on these and all the performances and make them available to anyone interested. i'm jumping all over the place in order of performances. last night we were up til four in the morning and frankly the prospect of getting bed is getting the better of me. but here are a few of the performances that stand out for me. partick leader's performance of everything but the girl's mirrorball. jeff hankin's performance of the self penned 'the vow' and one about a soldier and also one of shakespeare's sonnets set to music. dave blackburn and robin adler's arrangements of 'blue' and 'both sides now' adriano lucatteli's wife licia's version of plaisir d'amour with a great humming chorus accompaniment from the audience. chris marshall's two tragically hip songs 'the luxury' and 'fiddler's green' christina friess-neilsen's 'diamonds and rust' with harmony by jeff hankin. okay, i'm fading pretty fast now. gotta get some shuteye. i don't think i've covered anything like all the great stuff we did over the weekend. sleep will go a long way towards recovering that situation. huge thanks to lucy hone for organising this and to her boyfie john for peerless help above and beyond.... leszzzzzzzzz..........(london and bed.....oh, hello pillow, i missssed you.........) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:18:58 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! (NJC) I just wrote to the seller, quickly explaining the circumstances of the cookbook's existence and requesting that they "do the right thing and pull this listing." We'll see ... Lori Santa Rosa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:07:28 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: 'SHINE' on a freebie, to a good home, 100% JC I have one extra "SHINE" that I will give away, "to a good home". It was store-bought & I will send it anywhere, without charge. Details: If there is more than one request, I'll pull one at random. Please respond off list to jlamadoo@sbcglobal.net Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:50:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Loren wrote: Marian, I would love to have a copy of the PDF of the cookbook, but if I can get the one from eBay off the streets, then I won't need it. But, let's see what happens when the dust settles from the eBay front. If it turns out that the bidding gets too stupid or combative, I'll be back at your door, with my hat in my hand. But for now, let's wait to see what the future holds. thanks for the offer, Loren Hi Loren, What if another bidder on this list does just as you are and uselessly raises the cost trying to rescue the cook book? I don't think we should bid on it. Because of the possible legal consequences and out of respect for those in the book, I hope the seller will pull it. I've offered off of eBay via email to the seller to pay for the cook book as a form of mediation hopefully encouraging them to pull it off eBay asap. If they agree, I'll give it to you Loren. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:51:41 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: women - now, hillary campaign, njc From: "David Eoll" > Leave it to the Democratic Party to somehow engineer a close race when > the Republican brand name is in the toilet. Michael Moore has a great article on that subject in the new Rolling Stone: How The Democrats Can Blow It ...In Six Easy Steps. A blueprint for losing the most winnable presidential election in American history. http://tinyurl.com/57j4v4 >If America is dumb enough to pick John McBush, then > we'll deserve whatever we end up getting. America could choose the Democratic candidate and still lose-it's happened twice already. It mystifies me why the Dems haven't made an issue of the massive voter frauds that have taken place in the past two presidential races. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:35:32 -0700 From: "Lindsay Moon" Subject: JMDL Cookbook < Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Yes. I'd like to add it is definitely WORTH that much. They are beautiful. I treasure my copy. I can't imagine anyone giving theirs away. Jerry>> Maybe it was Joni . ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:11:08 -0400 From: David Eoll Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > From: Loren Carter > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > Marian, > > I would love to have a copy of the PDF of the cookbook, but if I can get the one from eBay off the streets, then I won't need it. But, let's see what happens when the dust settles from the eBay front. If it turns out that the bidding gets too stupid or combative, I'll be back at your door, with my hat in my hand. But for now, let's wait to see what the future holds. > > thanks for the offer, > Loren Marian, I would also like a pdf copy, if that's okay. It sounds intriguing, and I'm an avid cook. And, like Loren, I would like to contribute if there's ever another edition. Thanks in advance, David Eoll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:28:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: UK JoniFest Yay, Les! Thanks for the first report of Jonifest UK 2008! It sounds wonderful, as I knew it would be. And what a treat to know that there are one or two people outside Canada who've heard of the Tragically Hip. I know it's early, but... more fest reports, please! and pictures too!! - --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Leslie Ross wrote: 'ello everybod well, that's another 'fest under the belt. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:34:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook That occurred to me too. Maybe she needed some bread or some dough, so she sold her best recipes. How sad that would be though. I got a copy at fest 2003 as well. I haven't made any of the recipes though because I'm a slob and would probably have spilled stuff all over it and wrecked it, which is the usual fate of any of my cookbooks. - --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Lindsay Moon wrote: < Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Yes. I'd like to add it is definitely WORTH that much. They are beautiful. I treasure my copy. I can't imagine anyone giving theirs away. Jerry>> Maybe it was Joni . ; ) __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:41:28 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Kay's playing out > From: "Kay Ashley" > Subject: Kay's playing in NYC on Wed & Thu night (8/27 & 8/28) SJC > And Lastly, I just found out that I received 4 "Honorable Mentions" in the Billboard World Songwriting Contest. Congratulations, Kay, on your songwriting HM's. Sorry I can't make your shows this coming week but keep us posted on future shows. Kenny B ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:20:00 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! The files were apparently offered for free, for personal use, so they were aquired, with permission of the originators. There was nothing to compensate because the authors understood their work would be distributed informally, and did not expect compensation. I think if someone tried to market multiple copies, it would be of legal merit-but I could be wrong, and I see your point. It is the same as the songs in a sense, as in neither case was publishing relinquished by the author(s). But I think it is more like a church cookbook, you know it's gonna get passed around, borrowed, lost, refound, etc. RR btw I would like the Word file, Jerry-thanks~ From: "Jerry Notaro" > This has nothing to do with Fair Use. A used book sold by a bookseller > means the original rights holder(s) were initially compensated by > assigning license to the publisher. This makes it "legally acquired." That > was never done in this case. It is the same as if you gave a tape of your > original songs to someone and they tried to sell it without your > permission. > > Jerry > > Randy Remote wrote: >> From: "Marian Russell" >>> The understanding with which the Word and .pdf files were distributed >>> was >>> that >>> any printed copies would be made for the personal use of the persons >>> .......... to whom ......... they were distributed and not for >>> publication >>> or >>> sale. >> >> Which means that it falls under the "fair use" policies of US >> copyright law, and as such is no different than any other book >> sold by a used bookseller. >> I don't see what the big deal is. This is like finding one at a garage >> sale. If the person selling had more than one, it might mean something >> shady was going on. >> RR, contributor, "You're So Squares", a recipe I keep losing myself. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:30:16 -0400 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: Michelle Obama, njc Hi, I just caught the last half or so of Michelle Obama's speech during the democratic convention. I was very impressed. (I hope to see the parts of her speech that I missed.) She gives me hope in the possibilities for our future. If Barak wins the election I believe this will have a positive influence in the African American community and consequently in the world community. It is time for us to come together and do what ever we can to help get Barack Obama elected. I am glad that Hillary Clinton has risen to the occasion and is putting her support behind the democratic nominee. . . very democratic of her. . . We must have this change in order to support the proletariat. Biden? I really do not know enough about him. I guess he is there for now to smooth out the ticket. I can hardly believe that the race is this close at this time. . that so many people would vote for McCain. . . as they did GWBush. I think the abortion issue tips the scales with many voters. The other thing that tips the scales, I believe, is big money. . . my humble opinions . . . love to all XO Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo _Gallery_082008 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:50:06 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: UK JoniFest Hi Les Thanks for the report. It sounds like it was a ton of fun as usual. Get some pics up and some music posted somewhere so we can eavesdrop. paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Aug 25, 2008, at 4:15 PM, Leslie Ross wrote: 'ello everybod well, that's another 'fest under the belt. a blinder there's always a 'most valued player' for me at these fests. last year that honor fell to angela gold and her seemling endless knowledge of songs. previous honorees being victor victorola johnson. this year we can point readily at david blackburn, in from california with his wife robin, as simply brilliant performers and generous help to all the rest of us in need of musical support. in fact, from thursday evening kick-off when david, robin and their friends cahill and delene started the first of nightly sets, it was clear we were being gifted with some stellar musicianship. dave's arrangements (mostly in standard tuning, i might add......) of joni's songs were just superb. robin's singing, eloquent and beautiful. the venue was outstanding. set in the english cotswolds, a truly inspired choice by queen lulu (lucy hone). honey coloured stone buildings set in rolling english hills. quintessentially english and a delight. and as always at the jonifests, a terrific musical experience. i don't know where to begin. there was such a staggering range of simply wonderful performances both 'staged' and informal. for instance, nearly all of saturday afternoon was turned over to beatles songs played by henning olsen and dave blackburn and sung along to in amazing harmony by the rest of us. it was magical. dave caught all these on a digital recorder. i heard some of the playback and it's really really good! dave is going to do production magic on these and all the performances and make them available to anyone interested. i'm jumping all over the place in order of performances. last night we were up til four in the morning and frankly the prospect of getting bed is getting the better of me. but here are a few of the performances that stand out for me. partick leader's performance of everything but the girl's mirrorball. jeff hankin's performance of the self penned 'the vow' and one about a soldier and also one of shakespeare's sonnets set to music. dave blackburn and robin adler's arrangements of 'blue' and 'both sides now' adriano lucatteli's wife licia's version of plaisir d'amour with a great humming chorus accompaniment from the audience. chris marshall's two tragically hip songs 'the luxury' and 'fiddler's green' christina friess-neilsen's 'diamonds and rust' with harmony by jeff hankin. okay, i'm fading pretty fast now. gotta get some shuteye. i don't think i've covered anything like all the great stuff we did over the weekend. sleep will go a long way towards recovering that situation. huge thanks to lucy hone for organising this and to her boyfie john for peerless help above and beyond.... leszzzzzzzzz..........(london and bed.....oh, hello pillow, i missssed you.........) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:49:47 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Fw: Book on Ebay This is what I received from the owner of the book in reply to my request to withdraw it from the auction. If anyone has any input as far as a legal position - words that I can use in a reply - it would be most appreciated. it's hard not to see her point of view. Thanks in advance, Marian - ----- Original Message ----- To: marian@jmdl.com Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:04 AM Subject: Book on Ebay Hello Marion, I seemed to have caused a tempest in a teapot by putting the JM book on Ebay. I found 2 of them at a local flea market shop. I bought just one and paid for it. This book shows no indication that it is copyrighted, is it? I feel I now own the book and can do what I want with it. The fact that it was never meant to be sold does not mean that it can't legally be sold, if I bought and paid for it. Am I wrong? I sell some things on Ebay and have some other employment. I made about $7000 to $8000 last year so I am far from wealthy. I was excited to see that there was so much interest in this book, as I can use the money. I am more honest than most people. I'm not saying this to brag, it is simply fact. I make it a point not to do the wrong thing, and hold myself to high standards. In the future I am sure that other copies of this book will turn up, as estates are settled, etc. Perhaps this is how these books came to be in a small NH city I'm not sure. At any rate, I am willing to correspond with you about this, and perhaps you can explain to me why I don't have the right to sell this. Right now I can't see that I am doing anything wrong legally. The book, as far as I've looked, does not state that it can't be sold. I'll look forward to hearing from you. Mary merrys_books ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:03:05 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Marian, Jerry is right on about copyright (as if anyone would doubt him). Ebay should be set up for that. Just tell them it is copyrighted & that this is a copy of the original which the seller has no right to sell. I've had my own headaches over this kind of thing because someone who I knew a long time ago decided to record some of my older songs & to sell them (sounds crazy & it is a long story)! When I found out I told them that I had the copyright (which I do because I have recorded & written proof) so they took it off the market. So, anyone in the business such as Ebay should understand violation of copyright. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:16:59 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Thanks, Kate. It's good to know that to make a request to remove it is on solid legal ground. I've have gone ahead and replied to her, using some of the words from Jerry's earlier messages. Let's see what she says. Also maybe Laura's kind offer of some $ to remove it will be successful. Marian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:03 AM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > Marian, > > Jerry is right on about copyright (as if anyone would doubt him). Ebay > should be set up for that. Just tell them it is copyrighted & that this is > a > copy of the original which the seller has no right to sell. > > I've had my own headaches over this kind of thing because someone who I > knew > a long time ago decided to record some of my older songs & to sell them > (sounds crazy & it is a long story)! When I found out I told them that I > had the copyright (which I do because I have recorded & written proof) so > they took it off the market. So, anyone in the business such as Ebay > should > understand violation of copyright. > > Kate ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #179 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------