From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #70 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, May 18 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 070 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Carly Simon/"Girls Like Us"/guys like them [Mark-Leon Thorne ] David Reader's cello peformance (njc) [Victor Johnson ] njc Ted Kennedy rushed to hospital ["Vince Lavieri" ] Re: NJC: Link to fascinating Gore Vidal interview video with link to help NON-MSM site ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc David Byrne on Robert Rauschenberg ["Jerry Notaro" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:28:07 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Carly Simon/"Girls Like Us"/guys like them Mark, I just loved your analysis of C&S. I never thought of that album in that way before. I knew there was a lot of madness towards the end but the excerpts of lyrics that you chose leads me to believe sanity was on Joni's mind when she wrote that album. I know she was feeling a lot of frustration over John Guerin at the time so, I'm sure that had a lot to do with it. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 04:40:38 -0400 From: robmsteen@aol.com Subject: Re:Those guys & Todd Just to assuage any fears - I have interviewed Todd on several occasions (once for two hours on the making of Something/Anything? which you can find at the site rocksbackpages.com) and he is a good guy, for all his former reputation as a bit of "ladies man". Frighteningly bright and disarmingly honest. Never courted the critics, always does things his way. Oh, and his last CD, Liars, is the best recording I've heard this decade. Love RobB ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 05:29:45 -0400 From: paulcastle@talktalk.net Subject: New to the group Evelyn from northwest Canda @ almassy@qcislands.net asked me to post this on the list for her - ______ I was never lucky enough to hear Joni play when I lived in Matalla. I did get to say "Bon Voyage" to her as she left the caves...she was, climbing down right in front of me from a boulder to the sand in front of the main caves in the village. (There were some more caves over the hill to the east that I lived in after the Greek Police came and kicked everyone out of the caves...this was in late summer/fall of 1970.) My partner and I lived in a little cave overlooking the bay of Red Beach. We shared the cave with a Burmese Scotsman called Neil. Wow, even typing this brings back memories. I am very connected to that place called Matalla on Crete. It used to have no electricity and now it has three ATM machines... But you can still hike the hills with no one about but the sheep and their bells tinkling in the wind. I did see Carey, and heard one story about him: He was playing cards, and someone was leaning over his shoulder. Carey took his cigarette and put it into this person's face! (I did not see this, and the story may have grown, but wild, eh?) _____ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 11:09:06 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: Extremely unprofessional in my opinion (njc) Hi Victor It does sound unprofessional. I personally wouldn't want to take an engagement where the management weren't managing themselves to communicae with each other. How would you be treated if you had taken the gig? Pretty shoddy IMHO. I'd feel as if I'd be working for people who weren't altogether 'there'. Yeah, personal factors aside, if you knew you were in a 'hiring' phase then you should have a hand-over to either your manager or someone who was responsible for communicating these things. YOu're much better off... Zooby On 17/05/2008, Randy Remote wrote: > This is the > > > correspondence that took place. I think this person has been completely > unreasonable. I'm curious what your opinion is. This totally pisses me > off. > > > > This person is a flake-you are probably avoiding future problems > by not getting the job. I was not aware that oral surgery affected > your ability to type. Unprofessional, yes. If her boss was being > evasive, she still could have gotten back to you with something. > Sounds like a lot of excuses when an apology would have been > more appropriate. > RR > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Facebook me! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 12:17:07 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Re: Extremely unprofessional in my opinion (njc) i'm with you on this one victor. if the woman has been left with a flea in her ear about your communications with her, it's one she justly deserves. it takes no effort at all to keep someone informed if only to relate that, in her case, she was unable to 'nail' an appointment her boss. that circumstance is quite understandable. what is not is leaving you hanging. it's just pathetic. someone here said you've likely avoided future grief from the woamn and i'm inclined to agree. and as you say, her loss. big time. les london ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 12:23:05 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Re: NJC: Link to fascinating Gore Vidal interview video with link to help NON-MSM site i'm an avid reader of Gore Vidal's work. his is a voice i've treasured for the last twenty years. whatever he has to say, i'm very disposed to listening to. i may take 'a view' on some of the things he comes away with but they always get me thinking. on matters relating to the US and its government, i listen to Vidal very attentively. for uk listers, and likely available through some streaming site, gore vidal is in an hour-long interview with author and tv presenter melvyn bragg this sunday (18th) on a show called The South Bank show on ITV. ITV have a streaming site for programmes after they air. if you're interested keep an eye on ITV.com. if it is available it'll be there for a week or so after the event. les london (at work today, but, as evident, not working right now.....) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 12:28:30 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Re: We sail tonight for Singapore!!! (njc) oooh, envy is all mine. and four rows back!!!! i saw him at his one london show a year or so ago. i think the first twenty rows were solid 'famous faces'. thom yorke, radiohead, was seen outside the venue going a bit bananas unable to find his ticket. but he found it and entered the melee with the rest of us. jerry hall (no jagger). whole bunch of 'somebodies'. i was up in the gods, alas, but it was a brilliant gig. just brilliant. enjoy, victor!! les london >Just picked up a ticket for Tom Waits at the Fox. 4th row in the >pit! I truly believe he puts on the greatest show on earth... >Victor, elated ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 09:25:51 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Extremely...(njc) Thanks for your responses. It's hard being a passionate, creative person sometimes. This past week was kind of a rollercoaster with lots of ups and downs. One of my best friends, Holley, felt that regardless of who is right or wrong, that she, the airport lady, is the person in power, probably a busy woman, and that I should have been more patient. Frankly, I feel it was a bit over the top for her to "withdraw" her offer, after all that has transpired. This is why I hate communicating by email in sensitive situations. It is so easy to misconstrue where the other person is coming from and to feel confrontational. Of course, with a little communication, this whole situation could have been easily avoided. I actually sent her another email explaining my friend had been shot and killed, virtually 24 hours after I saw him, and that it took a huge emotional toll on me, and apologized if I came across in a negative way. So we'll see what happens. Regardless of what happens, I know that life is for learning and if something doesn't work out and result in the best outcome, then I will know better how to handle things the next time. I remember when I had just moved to Asheville, and had accepted a job from an artist there. She laid me off for no apparent reason after just one month. At the time, I was very distraught and flew to NYC to hang with Bob Muller and company that weekend. Of course, the result was two new songs, Heavenly Eyes, Boomerang Love and the eventual recording of Parsonage Lane. I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend! Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 09:55:26 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: David Reader's cello peformance (njc) This is David Reader's senior recital that a friend provided to us. It is heart-achingly beautiful and I invite any of you to listen to it. Recorded November 11, 2006. http://www.atlantaliverecording.com/David%20Reader.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:43:11 -0400 From: "Vince Lavieri" Subject: njc David Byrne on Robert Rauschenberg from today's NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/opinion/16byrne.html?th&emc=th Bob the Builder By DAVID BYRNE Published: May 16, 2008 I APPROACHED Bob Rauschenberg in the mid-'80s to design a cover for the Talking Heads record "Speaking in Tongues." I had recently seen some of his black-and-white photo collages at Leo Castelli's gallery on West Broadway and thought they were amazing, and I wondered what he would do with an LP cover. Skip to next paragraph Enlarge This Image Collage by Robert Rauschenberg; courtesy David Byrne It was not unusual for a pop musician to approach a fine artist in those days; other contemporary artists had collaborated with pop bands in the late '60s and early '70s. I was pleasantly surprised, though, when Bob, who died this week, eschewed simply reproducing a work on the album jacket in favor of re-envisioning what the whole LP package could be. His package consisted of a conceptual collage piece in which the color separation layers  the cyan, magenta and yellow images that combined to make one full-color image  were, well, deconstructed. Only by rotating the LP and the separate plastic disc could one see  and then only intermittently  the three-color images included in the collage. It was a transparent explication of how the three-color process works, yet in this case, one could never see all the full-color images at the same time, as Bob had perversely scrambled the separations. Needless to say, the design posed some production problems for Warner Bros. Records, so it ended up a limited, but very large, 50,000-copy edition, released in addition to the regular, mass-produced version. Luckily, everyone shared in the crazy idea of making radical art that could also be popular. Nowadays there might be concerns about the return on investment, but at that time the label let these matters slide. I later became friends with Bob and his collaborators, and it was an incredible world to enter. I sensed immediately that Bob had never become cynical about his work. Even after he found success, he continued to see the world as a work of art that simply hadn't been framed yet. Bob's way of talking was a challenge to many  he spoke in constant puns and metaphors, like a stream-of-consciousness poet, and one had to suspend traditional forms of speech, understanding and discourse and go with the flow. It was liberating, if you could hang in there, and never mundane. Conversation was like one of his pieces: a crazy mishmash of images, multiple layers and references, and a spray of allusions that were simultaneously silly, profound and beautiful  he was the Neal Cassady of the art world. His life, and his relation to those around him, was just like his work; there was no separation and he never went out of character. The love of the world that was in the work was also in the man. Bob drank heavily. In the '80s, I discovered him once at his studio on Lafayette Street, in mid-afternoon, with a glass of Jack in his hand. I, rock 'n' roll guy, was amazed to see an established artist living one aspect of the rock 'n' roll life much more intensely than I ever dared. I did wonder if some of the beautiful jumps and leaps in his conversation were partly alcohol-related, but his output remained transcendent, so I figured he was managing it. Being around Bob was often like being on some kind of ecstatic drug  he inspired those around him to not only think outside of the box, but to question the box's very existence. He was driven to challenge himself. For his globe-spanning project, Rauschenberg Overseas Cultural Interchange, Bob collaborated with artisans and small factories in Chile, China, Cuba, Germany, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, the Soviet Union, Tibet and Venezuela over many years. In pre-"it is glorious to be rich" China, Bob worked with the oldest paper manufacturer in the world, while in India he worked with mud-manure straw clay. Suspicious of Bob's motives, some countries forced him to wade through red tape, and his open attitude toward materials and creativity occasionally confounded his traditional artisan collaborators. The results, though, were sometimes wonderful, especially when he managed to break his own mold. Bob was extraordinarily generous. I don't mean he gave away art  though he did that, too  but he was generous with his time and with his ideas and spirit. He started Change Inc., a foundation that awards grants to emerging artists who can't pay their rent, utility or medical bills. No questions asked. He was, of course, famous for making art out of everyday junk he found on the street. One summer I went down to Captiva Island, Fla., where Bob had his main studio. I stayed across the road in one of the houses he had "saved," and I spent a week or so writing a few songs. When I returned to New York, I left behind a pair of worn-out tennis shoes. A ghostly image of them showed up in a painting not long after. Bob's generosity of vision was, it seemed to me, more profound than the financial kind. His openness and way of seeing was contagious and inspired others in their own work  not to imitate and make pseudo-Rauschenbergs, but to see the whole world as a work of art. As corny as that may sound, that's what he sometimes did. David Byrne is a musician and visual artist. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 07:44:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Extremely unprofessional in my opinion (njc) I don't think it was right for that woman to not get back to you. It is very unprofessional. Employers expect the most out of you so you would think it would go the other way as well. However, it seems to me that employers dictate everything by their time, not yours. Unless of course you find yourself a good job with a good boss that is... Unfortunately, your situation is not all that uncommon. In my experience of applying for jobs and seeing friends/family apply, such a thing often happens. No communication despite multiple attempts at trying to reach someone even if just to be told, "sorry, the position has been filled." It isn't right but it's not uncommon. Sad but true. Sometimes the unprofessionalism of companies really baffles me. A couple of years ago when I was going to broadcasting school, I had an interview for an internship for a DJ/production company. I spoke with the head guy over the phone and set up the interview with him giving me the exact address over the phone. So I get to the place which is in a building with other suites. His suite was locked and it was about 10 minutes before my interview. Well, I thought maybe he is running late. I wait and wait and wait and wait in my car (it was winter mind you and you could see the entrance from outside). 10 minutes pass. 20. 30. Finally, at 45 minutes I see a lady inside coming from another suite. I ask to use a phone at her company which she allows (I don't have a cell). I call the guy up, he doesn't answer, so I leave a message. The lady who let me use her phone asked me who I was waiting for. I explained I was waiting for the guy at the dj/production company. She tells me he moved his company to another location although she didn't know where. Even moreso, she told me he had moved his company to this other location a few weeks ago and hasn't come back here in that time. She told me she would bet his suite is empty. So...a waste of time, effort, and gas. The gas part really pissed me off because this company was about 45 miles away and I drove all that way hoping to start an internship....and to sum it all up, I called the guy numerous times after this and he never returned my call. -Mon - -Monika "We all come and go unknown..." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 08:11:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: RE: Extremely unprofessional in my opinion (njc) Victor wrote: I think this person has been completely unreasonable. I'm curious what your opinion is. This totally pisses me off. Hi Victor, Sorry to hear you went for this waste of time ride. In my experience, this type of thing is not worth my energy, and I try not to take it personally even though sometimes that is very hard. I don't find any use in thinking who's right or who's wrong but rather move on quickly. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and be tolerant regardless of my situation. In this one, I would have considered that there might have been somebody who had more time than I did or maybe even needed more time and was glad she didn't get back with them soon. Also, we can never know people's situations... like the oral surgery which is very hard on some people so they stay on sedating pain meds for days. So, I'm of the opinion, "there's no one to blame , no there's no one to name as a traitor here." Your circumstances just didn't fit hers. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 08:23:15 -0700 (PDT) From: KEVIN DOHENY Subject: Joni & Johnny To my knowledge there is no video of Joni singing with Chuck Mitchell but watching her sing Girl from the north country with johnny cash on you tube, gave me a glimpse of what that may have looked like..Although something tells me the way she looks at Johnny is a liitle different than the way she looked at chuck..lol. We are so lucky to have such easy access to these jewels..Joni on video is rare as it is but to have her with johnny is just priceless to me. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 12:18:16 -0400 From: "Vince Lavieri" Subject: njc Ted Kennedy rushed to hospital Has not been announced why but the Chicago Tribune says stroke like symptoms. Whatever we think of the man, he has been a major player in American life. This year is the 40th anniversary of the murder of one brother and 45th of the other brother. I request prayers. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 09:46:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC: Link to fascinating Gore Vidal interview video with link to help NON-MSM site I adore Gore (Vidal) too! Brilliant man. I'll never forget his description in the early days (when people were much more afraid to criticize the presidency than they are now) of the invasion of Iraq- calling it 'onward christian soldiers' Kate >I heard this excellent interview on the radio the other day. The audio stream, video stream and transcript are here: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/14/legendary_author_gore_vidal_on_the AMY GOODMAN: How do you want to be remembered? GORE VIDAL: I don't give a goddamn.< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 13:10:45 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Carly Simon/"Girls Like Us"/guys like them Interesting, Mark, that you should bring up C&S. I'm always interested in what people's perceptions of songs, or in Joni's case, the positioning of songs on her albums are because they are placed in the sequence they are in for a reason. I can't find my C&S currently but oddly enough I was thinking the last night or so before I fell asleep of the two songs "Trouble Child" and the juxtaposition of that song being followed by "Twisted". One being an in-depth yearning to help an institutionalized soul who can't function under current societal norms and "can't live life and...can't leave it" but hints with subtlety of her weariness of ever-changing accepted behavioral health standards - "they're friends but they're foes too" followed by "Twisted" a song that mocks and taunts the behavioral health care field in a light-hearted manner. I think it perhaps was Joni's way - without yet being directly critical as she will later in her career - of once again questioning cultural norms "They all laugh at angry young men, They all laugh at Edison and also at Einstein" - though not penned by her - referencing those whose thoughts or actions places them outside cultural norms (scientists and artists in particular) who can be dismissed as mad by many in the milieu of their times but are later viewed to be brilliant. Her self-portrait in the manner of Van Gogh on TI and using his favorite color "indigo" in the title to convey a more palpable sense of the sterile "depression" label and would be a much more overt statement of this juxtaposition of "madness" and what is now viewed as brilliance. Both songs speak to "madness" - though Trouble Child still can't help but reflect on love - "you know you really can't give love in this condition, though you know how you neeeeeeeeed it" - as you say madness or the nervous preoccupation that you might be tending towards some form of madness or regressing psychologically ie. in "Help me", it really is the predominant theme and now I think about it throughout the album, and of course the ever-present exploration of "the anatomy of love - the scene of the crime" which she would only later exorcise. I personally think (FWIW) that this obsessive need to introspectively examine love's "many faces" reached it's zenith primarily in her reflections while journeying as "a defector of the petty wars that shell shock love away" that comprise most of the album "Hejira" and would be a sort of epiphany for her as later works focused more and more on other, more external subjects. (I know I'm opening myself here for criticism btw). All of the songs speak to madness or "irrationality" and love (except Twisted which doesn't address love - and interestingly the only song on the album that is not her composition) - with "Down to You" and "Trouble Child" written from a more enlightened, philosophical and cautiously worded perspective. "Free Man In Paris" seems a curious contender at first with "Help Me" segueing into it. I've long understood the song to be written about David Geffen - when they were a bit more amiable - and see it as written from his perspective. He is finally free in one of Joni's most cited cities, Paris, where he can get away from all the superficiality and people "trying to get ahead, trying to be a good friend" to being able to go "cafi to caberet, thinking how I'll feel when I find that *very good friend of mine *- in other worlds a romantic interest that wants something other than a favor to get ahead. So the love theme is consistent, and I suppose the "irrationality" as well as he has to travel half-way across the globe just in the hope of finding "true love". Anyways - as yet another Mark notes - I really liked your interesting take on an album. It got me to thinking of C&S once again which I had heretofore seen as a project that largely explored Joni's vulnerabilities and like so many of her earlier works, a sort of continuing analysis of love. It seems to be one of her lighter albums as well in relative terms, with Twisted, Raised On Robbery (a great song but I still have a hard time imagining Joni wrote it as it is so different from all her other songs) being upbeat and almost comical and Just Like This Train having a slower pace but showing a Joni who can look at love and her relationship(s) with some train metaphors and "tit for tat" kind of glee. Maybe that had something to do with the album's broad popular appeal as well. Stay in Touch...yes I still believe that was written regarding her daughter Kilauren even though you are right some of the other songs on TTT do reference her relationship with Donald. Even though it is written about that initial giddy meeting/trying to impress/getting to know phase of a familial relationship it could just as easily apply to the "court and spark" phase of a romantic relationship, that's why I think it is so brilliant. :-) I'm not a Joni expert by any means but I found this from a 1998 review in the JMDL Library: "Mitchell said in a recent interview the tentatively tender "Stay in Touch" is about getting to know her now grown daughter, Kilauren". Let light hearts remake us Let the worries hush - -Mark in Florida ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 15:52:05 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: njc David Byrne on Robert Rauschenberg Thanks for this article, Vince. David Byrne became good friends with Rauschenberg, and his description of Bob is right on. Today is a small service (familiy and close friends only) for Bob, and one day in June is when the community will get to celebrate his life. Jimmy ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 16:56:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: njc David Byrne on Robert Rauschenberg hi Jimmy, where did RR live? in Tampa? or? I noticed the news article of his death was "datelined" Tampa. Yeah Rauschenberg was like god when I was in school in the early 80's. Now that's got me wanting to research which of the other pop-art-who-crossed-over-into-photo-realism (and more) big guys are still living. Em - --- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > Thanks for this article, Vince. > David Byrne became good friends with Rauschenberg, and his > description of Bob > is right on. Today is a small service (familiy and close friends > only) for > Bob, and one day in June is when the community will get to celebrate > his life. > > Jimmy > > > ************** > Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on > family favorites at AOL Food. > > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > I have a Sportster ON PURPOSE. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 20:12:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: njc David Byrne on Robert Rauschenberg Em wrote: > Yeah Rauschenberg was like god when I was in school in the early 80's. > Now that's got me wanting to research which of the other > pop-art-who-crossed-over-into-photo-realism (and more) big guys are > still living. Em, He was part of the world renowned Graphicstudio at USF in Tampa for many years. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 04:08:46 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Smurfday! Then Nate's Day Before the clock strikes midnight, I just have to pop in and wish notre cher Smurfadelica un tres bon anniversaire. That's what they would say in France, on Main Street. Or maybe I'll go to Rome, and say: Buon compleanno, il puffo! Sending you an armload of bright balloons, et bisous, like bright flags hung out on holidays, Patti P., a little bit corny, a wildwood flower wavin' for ya P.S. And to Bob and Val and Nate the Great, I am wishing you a wonderful graduation day tomorrow. Bob, try not to burst with pride and joy. It's your family's own shining hour. High five and big hugs! May Nate's dreams never lose their grandeur coming true. _________________________________________________________________ Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the im Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?souce=EML_WL_ GoodCause ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #70 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------