From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #50 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, May 2 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 050 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joe Jackson sings Joni & Todd show [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joe Jackson plays Joni [PassScribe@aol.com] re: The Old Man is Snoring [c Karma ] njc, End the war in Iraq [Patti Parlette ] Re: The Old Man is Snoring [Jerry Notaro ] Re: The Old Man is Snoring ["Randy Remote" ] RE: The Old Man is Snoring [c Karma ] Simple sorrow [David Sapp ] Re: Simple sorrow [Jerry Notaro ] Earhart/Lind/Oakley/Liebfruamilch sjc [Jeannie ] Carole King supports Hillary Clinton NJC [Moni Kellermann ] Re: Simple sorrow ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Simple sorrow [] Joe Jackson sings Joni & Todd show [Patti Parlette ] NJC Not only Joni ["Oddmund Kaarevik" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 07:49:14 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joe Jackson sings Joni & Todd show It was...I can send it to you. Like I said, Joy Askew does the vocals so don't think you're going to be hearing Joe sing it. You will find out when you get caught up. :o) Bob NP: David Baerwald, "Why" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 08:26:24 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joe Jackson plays Joni > recorded? > > > It was...I can send it to you. Like I said, Joy Askew does the vocals so > don't think you're going to be hearing Joe sing it. > > No, no, Bob... that's fine! Just hearing Joe play the piano on it should be a treat and (to tell the truth) I don't think I've ever heard Joy Askew so I'd be interested in hearing her too. Can you "You Send It"? Thanks, as always, Kenny B ************** Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:05:05 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: re: The Old Man is Snoring I've been off-list for about a month, and just trying to catch up on the digests. I saw this thread and thought I'd chime in, hope I'm not too late. I agree that "Taming the Tiger" is about Joni's struggle to maintain control against the record industry machine, a slighitly more vitriolic version of "For The Roses." She may well have picked up Sophia Loren's analogy referring to fame and the artist's ability to manage it. The line "Boring, the old man is snoring and I'm taming the tiger" I believe is reference to Bob Dylan having feigned falling asleep while at a listening review of "Court and Spark." Bob did her no favors responding to her work in public in that fashion. Joni's perception was that other industry people present read into that and dismissed her work to a lower echelon. Perhaps if Dylan (simultaneously releasing the brilliant, "Blood on the Tracks") had embraced C&S or had not mocked it, permission to vilify HOSL might not have been given. Hence, Joni associated that event with a harder uphill battle to maintain her integrity rather than the smooth flight it might have been. Just my HO. CC "And then I looked at myself here, chicken scratching for my immortality." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:10:15 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, End the war in Iraq Dear American Joniamigos (and kind regards to all the rest): As you know, today is the 5th anniversary of "Mission Accomplished." Prompted by an email from truemajority.org, I just called my Congressperson, Joe Courtney. (They teasingly call him "Landslide Joe" in DC because he won the closest race in the country last November....by less than 100 votes....67 maybe?) I'm so glad I called. What good reception! The aide did NOT tune me out, in fact he said he would "absolutely" give Joe my message ("Please tell him to do everything he can to end the war in Iraq.") I told him that today is the 5th anniversary of "Mission Accomplished" and asked him if he was getting a lot of calls. He said "Not really. You'd be surprised how few calls we get...unless it's about gas prices." I opined that people can be selfish, and that they forget that kids are dying every day in Iraq. I could "feel" his smile through the phone lines. He took my name and address and said he was "absolutely thrilled" to get my call. In fact, we had a hard time ending the call. Friends of spirit! Just think, if we got to be half a million strong and could make a difference! When I have talked to legislators before, they have all assured me that phone calls and petitions and letters DO make a difference. And even if you know, like I did, that your congressperson is "hooray for our side", I'm sure s/he would welcome the encouragement to carry on. Remember what Herbie said! It only takes a minute. Aim the hoses on 'em! You can find the phone number you need here: http://www.truemajority.org/responsibleplan/callin/index.php?district=CT02 Please spread the word if and/or as you see fit. Power to the people! Peace, Patti P. on a dove soapbox today ; ) "We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people. " -- Martin Luther King, Jr. _________________________________________________________________ Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Contribute/Default.aspx?source=TXT_TAGHM_MSN_Make_IM_Yours ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 12:17:37 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Old Man is Snoring > I've been off-list for about a month, and just trying to catch up on the > digests. I saw this thread and thought I'd chime in, hope I'm not too late. > > I agree that "Taming the Tiger" is about Joni's struggle to maintain control > against the record industry machine, a slighitly more vitriolic version of > "For The Roses." Let's say, far less subtle :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:12:38 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: The Old Man is Snoring From: "c Karma" > The line "Boring, the old man is snoring and I'm taming the tiger" I > believe is reference >to Bob Dylan having feigned falling asleep while at > a listening review of "Court and >Spark." Hmmm...could be a reference to Bob-good insight >Bob did her no favors responding to her work in public in that fashion. >Joni's >perception was that other industry people present read into that >and dismissed her >work to a lower echelon. Perhaps if Dylan >(simultaneously releasing the brilliant, >"Blood on the Tracks") had >embraced C&S or had not mocked it, permission to vilify >HOSL might not >have been given. Hence, Joni associated that event with a harder >uphill >battle to maintain her integrity rather than the smooth flight it might >have been. Might be stretching it here, though. As far as I know, that story was made public in later interviews by Joni. She's always gotten mixed reviews from the critics-but HOSL did quite well, following C&S which was her huge commercial success. If Dylan falls asleep listening to your record, the forecast is platinum! R ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:47:27 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: RE: The Old Man is Snoring Yes, true that Joni has perpetuated this story in more than one interview over the years. Perhaps because she can't let go of it, and views it as a career misstep. This isn't the only example of her rebelling against male imperialism in the record industry. My chorus of one still believes that "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow" is written in direct illustration as a result. She has viewed herself as creatively isolated by the "original sin" mentality..."and he pins me with that serpent to that Ethiopian wall...wash my guilt from Eden, wash and balance me." It's surfaced again on "Shine" with her references to St. Augustine. CC - ---------------------------------------- > From: guitarzan@hughes.net > To: ckarma@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: The Old Man is Snoring > Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:12:38 -0700 > > From: "c Karma" >> The line "Boring, the old man is snoring and I'm taming the tiger" I >> believe is reference>to Bob Dylan having feigned falling asleep while at >> a listening review of "Court and>Spark." > > Hmmm...could be a reference to Bob-good insight > >>Bob did her no favors responding to her work in public in that fashion. >>Joni's>perception was that other industry people present read into that >>and dismissed her>work to a lower echelon. Perhaps if Dylan >>(simultaneously releasing the brilliant,>"Blood on the Tracks") had >>embraced C&S or had not mocked it, permission to vilify>HOSL might not >>have been given. Hence, Joni associated that event with a harder>uphill >>battle to maintain her integrity rather than the smooth flight it might >>have been. > > Might be stretching it here, though. As far as I know, that story was made > public in later interviews by Joni. She's always gotten mixed reviews from > the > critics-but HOSL did quite well, following C&S which was her huge commercial > success. If Dylan falls asleep listening to your record, the forecast is > platinum! > R > > _________________________________________________________________ Back to work after babyhow do you know when youre ready? http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentid=5797498&ocid=T067MSN40A0701A ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:05:23 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: Simple sorrow Someone posted this lyric from For the Roses... Remember the days when you used to sit And make up your tunes for love And pour your simple sorrow To the soundhole and your knee ... and suddenly I was struck by Joni's use of the word "simple" to describe the sorrow... have just been wondering about that off and on all day... why is it as simple sorrow? Why didn't she just say sorrow? Knowing Joni I know she used that word for a purpose but it is escaping me. Well I'm going back to Yahoo live sets to watch Tea Leaf Prophecy. So does anyone have any ideas about the simple sorrow?... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 16:21:32 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Simple sorrow Makes the lines much more lyrical and poetic. There is the double s sound, like smooth and silky. Simple sorrow is much more descriptive. It reduces the size of an abstract concept, and then localizes to the guitar and knee, like honey pouring from the heart into the heart of music. The imagery is pure genius, let alone listening to the sound the words and then music make. Jerry > Someone posted this lyric from For the Roses... > > Remember the days when you used to sit > And make up your tunes for love > And pour your simple sorrow > To the soundhole and your knee ... > > and suddenly I was struck by Joni's use of the word "simple" to describe the > sorrow... have just been wondering about that off and on all day... why is it > as simple sorrow? Why didn't she just say sorrow? Knowing Joni I know she > used that word for a purpose but it is escaping me. Well I'm going back to > Yahoo live sets to watch Tea Leaf Prophecy. > > So does anyone have any ideas about the simple sorrow?... signing off for now, > Peace, David > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:31:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Earhart/Lind/Oakley/Liebfruamilch sjc Between 3rd and 5th grades, during my little catholic school library studies, I learned about Amelia Earhart, Jenny Lind and Annie Oakley and was so impressed with their unique lives. I turned out to become a tiny scholar on the topic of their achievements, becaming my heroines and models for life. I was thinking about this last night, having finally relaxed myself after watching Tracy Ullman's new Showtime series, "State of The Union," with much needed laughter (I couldn't stop laughing.) She is absolutely awesome! Well, I asked myself, after pondering this period of my childhood, "Was I setting myself up for Joni, even as a little girl?" I could never learn enough about Jenny Lind, Annie Oakley and Amelia Earhart those three years that I didn't even want to play with the kids I had nothing in common with anyway and instead would go out to my tree, sit in between the two large branches and read and read and read during recess and then my mom would whisk me off to the public library again and again for another round of books when I finished off the ones I had already read. Now I can see the correlation and sychronicity. After wanting to model Mother Mary, first and foremost, due to the love for her I learned from an old Belgian nun I adored, Sr. Vitalis, I wanted to be like them. As kids, you reach for the skies and like Amelia, I fell from the skies when I found no one to share everything I felt with, eventually suffering with pre-adolescent depression when I could find no girls to relate to, other than discovering what the boys and the birds and the bees were all about and smoking cigarettes and that was about it. Until along came this amazing, beautiful girl, who called herself, Joni Mitchell, and who whisked me off into the wild Blue yonder and I found what I was looking for and I'm still standing here, along with Rickie Lee, Jones, clandestinely sipping the milk of the Madonna. And, it truly takes the heart of Mary these days when mankind get weak and broken, the way it is, with the chards of glass houses shattering because they could no longer withstand and many, many Humpty-Dumpties are now splattering down the mountains. Jeannie NP: ~"Farm Girl,' by Ry Cooder, from his latest record, 'My Name Is Buddy,' (based around the stories of a talking cat and one of the best albums I ever heard) Farm Girl We ran out of cheese in Goleto town so we sat right down by the big oak tree Little farming town, by the deep green sea Watch the tide roll out, watch the tide roll in Farm girl, walking along, singing a song by the big oak tree Farm girl, how would you like to be friends with a poor boy like me? Mama always says strangers can be friends Come along with me, it's almost suppertime We don't have too much, set yourself right down Tell me who you are Tell me where you've been Then Reverend Tom, he says, "Thank you for this day I had never dreamed that we'd get this far. Bless this little place, everybody here There's a brighter side, I can see it clear" Farm girl, walking along, singing a song by the big oak tree Farm girl, how do you like to be friends with a poor boy like me? Farm girl, walking alone, seen some hard time in the country Farm girl, still got the time to be friends with a poor boy like me ~nj~ - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:40:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: RE: The Old Man is Snoring c Karma wrote: My chorus of one still believes that "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow" is written in direct illustration as a result. She has viewed herself as creatively isolated by the "original sin" mentality..."and he pins me with that serpent to that Ethiopian wall...wash my guilt from Eden, wash and balance me." It's surfaced again on "Shine" with her references to St. Augustine. CC Can someone please clarify how St. Augustine fits in the picture of the story? Did it have something to do with Augustine leaving his mother, Monica, stranded on the beach, maybe? Thanks, Jeannie ~nj~ - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 22:52:25 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Carole King supports Hillary Clinton NJC http://tinyurl.com/6ls9uz (it's a flash video which contains audio only) I found this interview very interesting, she talks about HRC and later about Tapestry and her career... Enjoy! moni k. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- http://hillforceone.blogspot.com in-flight entertainment: her stump speech in its many variations ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 17:26:48 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Simple sorrow On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Jerry Notaro wrote in part: > Makes the lines much more lyrical and poetic. There is the double s sound, > like smooth and silky. I agree about the double "s" sound and it's lyrical use. I think, though, that maybe she was ahead of her time, as always, and was trying to differentiate the "sorrow" from something pathological with a label and a "cure" that can be prescribed with some money. It's no secret one of the things Joni dislikes most about the recent evolution of English is the inundation of it with terms derived from psychology As Joni states in the song Hejira "there's comfort in melancholy, when there's no need to explain, it's as natural as the weather in this moody sky today". That speaks for itself. And though I have yet to really revisit at the lyrics of the song or what they may represent, "Don't interrupt the sorrow" ... "damn right" (HOSL) ... on first thought they speak to me of letting the sorrow resonate with you and experiencing it as a natural mood instead of popping the latest pill (the most recent study making MSM news shows anti-depressants to be no more generally no more effective that placebos, with a noticeable difference only in the severely clinically depressed). I think the reference in FTR was an early indication of her dislike of the overuse of labels becoming more and more frequently used in our language that imply pathology and the consequence of which is an overmedicated society viewed as the norm today. Mark in Florida. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:29:16 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Simple sorrow From: "David Sapp" > Remember the days when you used to sit > And make up your tunes for love > And pour your simple sorrow > To the soundhole and your knee ... > > and suddenly I was struck by Joni's use of the word "simple" to describe > > the sorrow... have just been wondering about that off and on all day... > > why is it as simple sorrow? Why didn't she just say sorrow? Besides the poetic illiteration Jerry mentioned, the theme of the song is how he became this busy star with obligations and star maker machinery. She is remembering a part of him that is lost, a sad, beautiful folk singer. More Joni genius that she can squeeze so much meaning into the lyrics. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 10:58:22 +1200 From: Subject: Re: Simple sorrow David wrote: > Remember the days when you used to sit > And make up your tunes for love > And pour your simple sorrow > To the soundhole and your knee ... > and suddenly I was struck by Joni's use of the word "simple" to describe > the sorrow... have just been wondering about that off and on all day... > why is it as simple sorrow? Why didn't she just say sorrow? I've always thought she meant "simple" as in the way the sorrow was expressed, in "simple" terms, rather than the sorrow itself being simplified. In other words, the lyrics refer to someone expressing themselves in simple terms before, and maybe they've lost that simplicity over time. Just my $0.02 Hell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 00:34:51 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: Joe Jackson sings Joni & Todd show Kenny B wrote: Hey, Bob, Do you know if that Joe Jackson version of Joni's "Down To You" was ever recorded? Is it in your "covers" collection somewhere? I'd really love to hear THAT one. Still getting caught up with emails after a week away. How was the Todd show that you and Mrs. scjoniguy attended? (You could pm me on this one.) **** Welcome home, Kenny B! For those who don't know (I know you and Bob know), Joe Jackson was on the original list of performers for the Carnegie Hall Tribute (02/01/2006), but dropped out for whatever reason. And thanks for bringing up the Todd show again. I've been meaning to share a message from a new friend. She also loves Joni and may pop in here someday, but right now she is working super-hard on the Obama campaign, where we met. She said she is the "biggest Todd phreak ever" so I sent her Bob's review. She wrote (and gave me permission to share): "I caught Todd on the beginning of this tour at the Calvin in Northampton. One of THE most riproaring concerts I've ever seen him play, and a real review of his complete career. Also, a complete 180 turnaround from his last tour for "Liars", which was very synth-driven (loved that, too). So cool that some Joni fans are also Todd fans. And here I thought I was the only one. ;^) " Darn right. Joni fans are cool! "Play it cool, play it cool...." Love, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Contribute/Default.aspx?source=TXT_TAGHM_MSN_Make_IM_Yours ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 20:16:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Carole King supports Hillary Clinton NJC Rock on Carole. Maybe now I'll read your part in Girls Like Us........... -M Moni Kellermann wrote: http://tinyurl.com/6ls9uz (it's a flash video which contains audio only) I found this interview very interesting, she talks about HRC and later about Tapestry and her career... Enjoy! moni k. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- http://hillforceone.blogspot.com in-flight entertainment: her stump speech in its many variations - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 20:25:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Simple sorrow Well as mentioned, the double "s" is probably deliberate for effect. As for the actual meaning, this song is directed at a musician who is now in the middle of the music business going from this to that and probably in the middle of some chaos as fame and success have their price. I think Joni was referring to a time before this musician was famous and he just played his songs mainly for himself, expressing himself just for that alone. Before the fame and such, it was much simpler as his problems then were probably of his making--things that everyone deals with but things that everyone can get through. Now, because of all this fame, those problems from before seem "simple" in comparison...and almost innocent because then this musician only played music for the sake of playing music. -Monika David Sapp wrote: So does anyone have any ideas about the simple sorrow?... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:11:05 +0200 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: NJC Not only Joni But also Alanis Morissette did quite recently do a Yahoo music live show here's the link for those of you who like that fellow canadian (who some years ago in a sad song, played your Joni...) I for one think her new single "Unerneath" is catchy and good, and really has her signature. Here's the link: http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/--59775764 Best Oddmund ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #50 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------