From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #46 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 28 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 046 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni and birds ["Mark Angelo" ] Night of the iguana ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: (NJC) How to sing like a planet ["Steve Petrica" ] NJC Kate Bush [Chuck Eisenhardt ] Re: NJC Kate Bush [Catherine McKay ] Re: SJC Timeless NJC now ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Denny doc on BBC2 (NJC) [Bruce Eggleston ] Re: (NJC) How to sing like a planet [Jeannie ] Re: Lucy In The Sky With Diamond, NJC+Clockwork Orange by Stanley Kubrick ["Mark Angelo" ] "White Eyes Lies" ["Mark Angelo" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 03:58:59 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni and birds Hi Terra, You are the second or maybe third poster whose favorite album is FTR. My first purchase was C&S, naturally I know it by heart, but rarely play it these days. FTR is up there among her best, I wonder if so many like it because it was the last heavily piano-dominated album until...Shine I believe. If I had to pick my favorite I think it would be Hejira, I love the guitar tunings and the lyrics. And THOSL. Also TTT has such interesting open tunings and I love the lyrics from that period of time when she was reunited with her daughter and told the the whole recording industry "Good Riddance" to their plethora of songs about one night stands and the misguided fortune (videos comprised of half naked women slithering over fancy cars, bling, plenty of imagery of fiat currency) that accompanies you with being "Number One". I need to refresh myself with pre-FTR material (except Blue) as I haven't listened to it for what seems like ages. Almost 4 am EST. Think I'll sleep til 1 pm again just cause Joni does it too...... "In the middle of this continent, in the middle of our time on Earth" Stay in touch... Mark in Florida. On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:00 AM, T Peckham wrote: > Hi Mark, > > I just happened to look in about five minutes after Rian posted the > challenge. It came to me right away because, of course, it's from the first > song on *For the Roses, *which was the first Joni album I bought. It > remains--if forced to choose--my favorite (with *Hejira* coming in a very > close second). > > I was aware of Joni but for some reason hadn't really picked up on > her--how I "missed" *Blue* when it first came out, I'll never know--but > the Stephen Davis review in Rolling Stone convinced me I had to hear this > album. (That was back in the days when RS, while sometimes wrong-headed, at > least had good writers who were passionate about music.) I just went over to > the JM library and reread it; it sounds a little dated here and there, but > it's beautifully written and still conveys the essence of the album and does > exactly what it's supposed to do: make me want to drop everything and just > listen to the record again. > > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=257 > > As for Javex, I wondered for the longest time exactly what it was--not > sure when or where I finally read that it was just a cleaning > product--nothing exotic as I had imagined it might be! > > > On 4/26/08, Mark Angelo wrote: > > > > > > OK, I just looked it up on the internet. Yeah they are plastic bottles > > of Canadian Chlorox (bleach). I really need to brush up on my early Joni. > > When I was old enough to finally appreciate the musical direction she was > > going in instead of expecting more of the C&S formula as well as gain > > perspective in life to understand the social commentary that as she was > > increasingly writing about I pretty much stopped listening to C&S and all > > previous works. In fact I need to purchase them all again except for C&S as > > they were all albums I have long since lost somewhere in my many moves. > > > > Mark in Florida. > > > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 12:42 AM, Mark Angelo > > wrote: > > > > > That was fast Terra!! Now what exactly are Javex bottles? Canadian > > > version of Chlorox? And are they swirling in the gyre twice as big as the > > > continental US in the Pacific Ocean? > > > > > > "Plastics Make It Possible" ummmmmmmm yeah...... > > > > > > NP: Two Grey Rooms > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 12:20 AM, T Peckham > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Too easy! :-) ;-) > > > > > > > > "I took my share down by the sea > > > > Paper plates and Javex bottles on the tide > > > > Seagulls come down > > > > And they squawk at me > > > > Down where the water skiers glide . . . " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss > my sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:59:08 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Night of the iguana I watched part of the film Night of the iguana on TCM last night. (It was on very late so I didn't make it to the end. I fell asleep much against my will, damn!). I hadn't seen either film or play before. I think Joni captured the essence of Shannon very well but I wonder why she left out Hannah? Oh well, one can't have everything. This morning I was surfing the internet and stumbled upon a Swedish website, www.lastfm.se . They have several groups and you can create your own radio. There is a Joni group/discussion list with more than 300 members whose average age is 27. I was surprised to find so many young people, I had the impression that most of Joni's fans are at least middle-aged. So I was prejudiced and I'm glad I'm wrong! So Bene, Odd and others in the Scandinavian region, if you don't already know about this website, check it out! (Of course, anybody can but the language is Swedish). Have a nice weekend, Marion ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:05:36 -0400 From: "Steve Petrica" Subject: Re: (NJC) How to sing like a planet I love New Mexico, but the times I've been in Taos it has sung to me only in the metaphorical sense. Maybe I just don't have the ears for it. :-( Steve On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:20 AM, "Kate Bennett" wrote: Has anyone heard the famous Taos hum? I've never been there but apparently > many can hear it. > > > Scientists say the Earth is humming. Not just noise, but a deep, > > astonishing music. Can you hear it? > > > > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/a/2008/04/23/notes042308.D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:36:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni and birds For the benefit of Mark & others who may not know about it, there is a lyric glossary that defines terms like Javex Bottles and others. Makes for some interesting and educational reading: http://jonimitchell.com/research/glossary.cfm Bob NP: Stone Temple Pilots, "Piece Of Pie" ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:24:29 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: NJC Kate Bush a couple of thoughts on Kate Bush.... 'The Whole Story' is probably the best place to start an encounter with her music. There is a video version, certainly out on DVD by now, which gives a 'even more whole story' because you see some of her talents other than singer/songwriter - dance, theater, performance art, and being just generally videogenic. Barbara and I had the amazing experience of first seeing one of tracks (Cloudbusting) at the Wilheim Reich Museum (his former home and laboratory) in the company of Mary Boyd Higgins, the Trustee of his estate. In the video, Don Sutherland plays Reich (strange casting!) and Kate Bush play's Peter Reich (his son). The video portrays Reich's 'arrest' for contempt of court resulting from his refuse to submit to trial over charges brought by the FDA. Reich was jailed, where he subsequently died, and tons of his scientific works burned, (in 1957 America) Some folks might remember 'Orgone boxes' which Reich developed to treat cancer by focusing on the patient the free life energy (Orgone) that he believed he had discovered and verified experimentally. Orson Bean, a humorist who appeared often on Jack Paar, was a proponent, as was William Steig. The strange apparatus seen in the Cloudbusting video and on the album is meant to represent a 'cloud buster' but it is in reality a listening device used in WWII to detect incoming bomber attacks, pre-radar. There are a couple of actual cloud busters on the grounds at Organon, the Reich Museum in Rangeley, ME. Riech used these to effect cloud formations and was widely credited with the ability to cause rain to fall when none was forecast, and with breaking several droughts. Reich and Peter also used the devices against UFO's but that's another whole story. I think I can dig up a photo of an actual Cloudbuster, which were constructed to project rather than concentrate Orgone energy into the atmosphere. It also turned out that the UFO's didn't like it (rather like 'Indian Love Call' in 'Mars Attacks'. There is an amazing video of a live performance ('79) in London at Hammersmith Odeon that has acquired legendary status, This show was performed on two successive evenings and never again.( I just now took a Google to see if this is available on DVD and yippie! it is....) Kate is mesmerizing here. Each 'song' is staged as live musical theater. Couldbusting is not performed here. ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:21:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Kate Bush Chuck, this is very interesting. I had no idea. If you go to Youtube and do a search on "Kate Bush Cloudbusting", you will find a couple of interviews (the one called Interview #2 is longer and better, IMO) as well as the video of the song itself. - --- Chuck Eisenhardt wrote: > a couple of thoughts on Kate Bush.... > ... > > Barbara and I had the amazing experience of first > seeing one of tracks > (Cloudbusting) at the Wilheim Reich Museum (his > former home and > laboratory) in the company of Mary Boyd Higgins, > the Trustee of his > estate. In the video, Don Sutherland plays Reich > (strange casting!) and > Kate Bush play's Peter Reich (his son). The video > portrays Reich's > 'arrest' for contempt of court resulting from his > refuse to submit to > trial > over charges brought by the FDA. Reich was jailed, > where he subsequently > died, and tons of his scientific works burned, (in > 1957 America) ... > The strange apparatus seen in the Cloudbusting video > and on the album > is meant to > represent a 'cloud buster' but it is in reality a > listening device > used in WWII to detect > incoming bomber attacks, pre-radar. There are a > couple of actual > cloud busters > on the grounds at Organon, the Reich Museum in > Rangeley, ME. Riech used > these to effect cloud formations and was widely > credited with the > ability to > cause rain to fall when none was forecast, and with > breaking several > droughts. Catherine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:39:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: SJC Timeless NJC now no argument on the small amount going to the artist which is why so many are doing it for themselves...but the price of cds includes other expenses such as studio time & paying musicians... in addition, much like the high cost of pharmaceuticals for expample, the price of the product reflects the marketing dollars (which covers a whole spectrum of personal expenses, not just media advertising) spent to promote the product Mark in Fla >With the ridiculous price of CD's when they cost pennies to manufacture, and little goes to the artist< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:49:48 -0600 From: Bruce Eggleston Subject: Re: Denny doc on BBC2 (NJC) The music review cannon is littered with statements such as "the next Beatles", "the next Bob Dylan", "the next James Taylor", etc. This is far from exclusive to Joni or women in general. I find it just a simplistic way to indicate the type of music the subject is playing, so precious line inches could be devoted to more substantive matters concerning the performer. Most artists consider this type of reference a curse. Bonneville Bruce > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:30:55 +0100 > From: "Anita Tedder" > Subject: Denny doc on BBC2 > > I quite understood where you are coming from. Even at the time, I > actually > found the comparisons quite bewildering and it wasn't until I > discovered > feminism and realised what a sexist old world it was that I began to > understand the position women performers in many artistic fields > were placed > in. 'The next this' or 'The next that'. It just didn't seem to > happen to men > in the same way. 2 guitarists, a bass player and drummer were never > the > 'next Beatles'. They were always the band they were. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:29:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Re: (NJC) How to sing like a planet I could hear Pachamama's ('Mother Earth' in the Quechua tongue of the Incas) hum in Machu Pichu, Peru, the loudest. OMG!!! Jeannie Steve Petrica wrote: I love New Mexico, but the times I've been in Taos it has sung to me only in the metaphorical sense. Maybe I just don't have the ears for it. :-( Steve On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:20 AM, "Kate Bennett" wrote: Has anyone heard the famous Taos hum? I've never been there but apparently > many can hear it. > > > Scientists say the Earth is humming. Not just noise, but a deep, > > astonishing music. Can you hear it? > > > > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/a/2008/04/23/notes042308.D ~nj~ - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:38:21 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni and birds Bob, Thanks for the link. Indeed a useful site for Joni references in her lyrics. Just scanning it briefly, I noticed Reverend Pearson was missing "who threw away the vain old God" ... someone here may want to add that reference from "Shine". The poor man paid a heavy price for a lifetime's work when he decided to commit the "heresy" of casting away the idea of a 'hell". NP: One Week Last Summer (Shine) On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Bob Muller wrote in part: > For the benefit of Mark & others who may not know about it, there is a > lyric glossary that defines terms like Javex Bottles and others. Makes for > some interesting and educational reading: > > http://jonimitchell.com/research/glossary.cfm > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:56:38 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Lucy In The Sky With Diamond, NJC+Clockwork Orange by Stanley Kubrick When I was in Nigeria for about 6 months decades ago, there were some monkeys out back, in cages as I remember. Yeah they do have a smell to them, I wonder what we smell like to them?? (Thinking Dr. Zira the chimpanzee psychologist from Planet of the Apes now...). And lots of bats, and these huge lizards all over the buildings, everywhere. Monitor lizards that have become an "exotic pest" like in South Florida perhaps. I don't understand the hullabaloo about all the introduced "exotic pests" for the most part (I know I'm definitely gettting into non-PC area here), except for maybe the large Boa constrictors or whatever they are in the Everglades. What's wrong with Schefflera trees growing in the wild in South Florida etc?? Coconut trees spread to practically all tropic shores long ago. It is merely accelerated migration, just as we have accelerated climate change, accelerated population growth, etc. Yes it competes with native vegetation but native vegetation has gotten here and evolved from elsewhere at some point in time and is always in competition with itself. The only constant is change. Everything is always in flux. We humans have merely accelerated the rate of change of our society - Future Shock - and with that overload of information, choices, and of practically everything else, due to our addiction to burning (formerly) cheap fossil fuels. That will change as demand has outstripped supply which any geologist could have predicted would happen decades ago. I want to watch that movie Clockwork Orange now that you mentioned it - and I'd have never guessed the name didn't involve "orange" but "orang". I've seen a couple of his other movies but it was when I was very young in Kuwait and I don't recall most of their content. Eyes Wide Shut was good though, too bad it ruined Nicole's relationship with Tom *ick* (what an ego!) and sent him scrambling for yet another woman 6 or 7 inches taller. Repetition-compulsion?. I bet he had a tall mother or father. Very Freudian. I watched Dr. Strangelove by Stanley Kubrick 7 months ago for the first time, in one of my rare movie-watching binges. It was memorable (especially the ending), with Peter Sellers playing 3 characters. Think of all that fuel we burned (wasted) back in the Cold War flying all of those modified Boeing 707's continually 24/7. The Air Force still consumes more than half of all fuel that the US Government uses - even with all the supposed technological advancements. Right now On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 11:47 PM, Rian Afriadi wrote in part: > > >>>> > When I was 10, i had a chance to hug a small orangutan (a tamed one) (or > perhaps that orangutan who hugged me). It was sooo warm (but smells REALLY > BAD!!!) > > Rian > PS. As if you didn't know : in bahasa melayu/bahasa indonesia, orang = > man, utan (hutan) = forest/jungle. So, never call orangutan simply "orangs" > PS #2 : The word "orang" is actually used as the title of Clockwork Orange > by Stanley Kubrick. So, it has nothing to do with oranges. Clockwork Orange > = Clockwork Man. If you have seen the movie, you'll get the meaning... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:31:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Hello its me, njc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsezr0qiFIc ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:08:12 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: "White Eyes Lies" I'm bored and blue so why not stir up some controversy? As I've said before the lyrics from "Shine" have mesmerized me, long before I heard them put to music. It's as if Joni is able to tell some shameful truths about mankind's respect for his fellow man and for the natural world of which he has tried to distance himself for so long, with disastrous consequences which most of humanity is still in denial (we as a species are capable of deception, as are a great many other species which enable them to survive, however, we are arguably unique in our capacity to self-deceive. We're so busy being cell-phone zombies or indoctrinated with television propaganda we don't have time to worry about the suffering we have wrought upon our fellow man but more just as importantly upon our fellow flora and fauna we have evolved with and from (well the fauna anyways). In Shine she does not mince words, she keeps metaphors to a minimum, and simply states the obvious so eloquently which everyone is so busy avoiding in her songs dealing with man's relation with man and with the natural world of which he has tried to control and conquer. These lyrics, there are so many, are quite damning IMHO of the Western culture and the paradigm we find ourselves in, and of the Caucasian race for that matter: I feel like Geronimo I used to be as trusting as Cochise But the white eyes lies He's out of whack with nature And look how far his weapons reach! To me she is once again praising the wisdom of the native American Indians, as she has done in countless songs before, and their respect and the "holiness" they endowed the Earth with, it's air, it's water, it's earth, it's many living things. But she is accusing Europeans and their descendants (Americans, Australians, etc.) of being duplicitous as they were some 200 hundred years ago here and even earlier in Central and Southern America and having caused the genocide of millions and millions of native American peoples. "But the white eyes lies" - I don't see any other interpretation of this, there is purposely no ambiguity. The white man, and his paradigm of looking at the natural world and for that matter other races as something to exploit. Her reference to "look how far his weapons reach" speaks to America's obsession with the military as in the real world power, "might is right", is what matters to preserve a lifestyle that is unsustainable and depends on the the continuing (muted) screaming of native trees, animals, and peoples on continents too far to be "real" to us - out of sight, out of mind. I think she is saying with that sentence that the white man understand that the ends justify the means, whether it is cloaked as "Good Ole God Bless America (here we are still worshiping our own ego)" or "terrorists" or "criminals" or "them". He will rationalize it as "manifest destiny" or whatever fits current socially accepted standards. Anything will be done to preserve the Western (European-American) paradigm and the New York City - London - Tel Aviv axis will be maintained and will prosper at all costs, damn the consequences to the rest of the planet. It is a sweeping criticism of Western imperialism, of which America is simply continuing that maintained by our British forebears, of a paradigm in which "economy" and notions of being prosperous and "nature" are necessarily at odds with each other, a belief system that has placed chimpanzees, which share 99 percent of our DNA, on the verge of extinction. (This particular as well as clear-cutting of forests, the lungs of the Earth, is actually more complex, as races on all continents destroy their own homes in an effort to survive and make copies of themselves). But to those burgeoning industrialized countries such as China and India, they've played the game for so long and now they are actually at the stage of attaining the faltering American Dream, who is going to necessarily slap them and say "Sorry, it's been real but the party's over", no more McMansions or Buicks (quite tellingly China's number one selling car) because now you are using the limited resources we need in ever increasing amounts since you tried for so long to be just like us. it is no accident that the US has chosen to use spent nuclear waste, depleted uranium, to "blanket" huge swaths of the Middle East. When exploded, it forms dust so minute it is easily breathed into the human body where it remains for years, emitting radiation and disrupting cellular functions, causing cancers and deformities, especially in the young, whose DNA is replicating much more rapidly. Not to mention other life forms. And it has a half-life of 4.5 billion years, the same age as the Earth itself. "The white eyes lies" ... you won't hear our Military acknowledging this, in fact it is increasingly known that the cluster of maladies known as Gulf War Syndrome, affecting troops returning from Kuwait, Afghanistan, and Iraq is almost certainly caused by DU. But never mind, scream the Ad Empires, "Buy this, buy that!!", and Americans have thus far have been indoctrinated to distract themselves with notions that happiness can be achieved with acquisitions from their Shopping Mall Regimes. "And look how far his weapons reach!" The exploded dust can be caught up in winds and blown far, far away. Depleted uranium is quite simply a nuclear weapon. But I fear the weapons of which she speaks which reach so far have even more devastating and immediate consequences. And I think of "Iran Kitty" and Admiral Fallon's resignation and the increasingly negative light in which Iran is cast by the MSM (I canceled my TV subscription over 6 months ago, as what they reported and what I observed became increasingly absurd to me) and "Iran Kitty's" increasing alliance with Russia and China and it's dropping of the US dollar for oil trade. (See "Iran Oil Bourse" and Saddam did the same thing shortly before US invaded Iraq). And bad, bad, (at least that is what the propaganda is) "Iran Kitty" would complete a US quest for controlling the world's largest known oil reserves in a triangle containing Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran. But that is stating the obvious, and it shouldn't be done...right? Anyways, that's my sobering take on those verses in the context of the song "This Place" from Shine. Anyone with a different (or similar) take on the verses? Oh and I am far past the stage of being outraged or even surprised by any of it as I once was any longer - "If I had a Heart I'd Cry" though ... Mark in Florida. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #46 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------