From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #45 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, April 27 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 045 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni remarks [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Worst Joni covers [Monika Bogdanowicz ] SJC Timeless [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: (NJC) How to sing like a planet ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni and birds [David Sapp ] Re: Joni and birds ["Mark Scott" ] Re: Worst Joni covers [Bob Muller ] Re: Joni remarks ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Joni and birds ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Throwing the lightness on these things ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Worst Joni covers ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: SJC Timeless ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Worst Joni covers NJC [Bob Muller ] Re: Worst Joni covers NJC ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Lucy In The Sky With Diamond, NJC ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: SJC Timeless ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Worst Joni covers, this time NJC [Rian Afriadi ] Re: Lucy In The Sky With Diamond, NJC+Clockwork Orange by Stanley Kubrick [Rian Afriadi ] Re: Joni and birds ["T Peckham" ] Re: Worst Joni covers, this time NJC ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Joni and birds ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Joni and birds ["T Peckham" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 06:54:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni remarks Thank you for sharing. As for the pedal steel, it is a guitar. You play it with a slide but it differs from slide guitar because it is placed down (sort of like a dulcimer) on a stand and it is not shaped like a regular guitar. It has the strings, the neck, and all but it is more rectangular in shape. It sounds slicker and more crisp than playing slide guitar which of course you play slide guitar with a regular ol' guitar but just with a slide on your finger. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_steel_guitar -M Mark Angelo wrote: pedal steel ... is that like drums, percussion? (my question) ********** - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:24:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Worst Joni covers What are the worst Joni covers you have ever heard (Bob?)? Feel free to post some links as I'm curious and I need a good laugh. There's the good, the bad, and the ugly. I'm looking for the ugly here... -Monika - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:08:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: SJC Timeless I was just reading a recent interview with Roger Waters in which he said "timeless songs are truthful songs." I think he hit something there. He also said that "music is communicating feelings to human beings" which I also like. This makes me wonder something about Joni...we all know that Joni's lyrics express some truth in them whether it be truth to life truth to herself to you, etc etc. We all know Joni's words hit us deeply. They are, for lack of a better word, emotional. You can feel it. However, Joni has said that when she composes music she starts playing around with different chords/tunings until she feels like she has captured the right emotion in them. She "plays" what she "feels." Now I'm sure a lot of musicians sort of go through that process too but some pay strict attention to theory as well. I suppose I've never heard someone who said they "search" for the right chord of "feeling." I guess all musicians do so in a way without even realizing. I wonder though how much Joni attributes to her music/chords vs. her lyrics when it comes to self expression. That would be something I would ask her, if I were a journalist, doing an interview (but I'd phrase my question a bit better). -Monika - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:40:19 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: (NJC) How to sing like a planet Has anyone heard the famous Taos hum? I've never been there but apparently many can hear it. > Scientists say the Earth is humming. Not just noise, but a deep, > astonishing music. Can you hear it? > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/a/2008/04/23/notes042308.D TL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:19:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Throwing the lightness on these things Well 'tis the weekend folks. Here, in good ol' Ohio, we've been having beautiful weather lately. Yesterday it was sunny and 81! My kind of weather. Unfortunately, because it is Ohio, Tuesday it's going to be 43. Go figure. Anyway, in the midst of enjoying this beautiful weather I went grocery shopping with my brother Thursday morning, as always. Now I always enjoy what people say about the music I listen to who are not fans of it or not familiar with it and my brother has said quite a bit about Joni (more bad than good..). Anyway, we were listening to DJRD and in my brother's half awake stage (we shop early and he stays up late) he perked up when he heard the line, "put me at the top of your danger list." For whatever reason in his demented mind (nothing against the line or the song which I love but he is demented nonetheless) he really enjoyed that line and automatically texted it to a few people. He told me he thought it was good and that it sounded like a line from a movie. He occasionally says it now at random.... Just some triviality for your weekend... -Monika - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:07:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: Worst Joni covers Anyone singing Both Sides Now in Japanese! There are dozens of them, and somehow our Covers King manages to find more :) Jerry Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > What are the worst Joni covers you have ever heard (Bob?)? Feel free to > post some links as I'm curious and I need a good laugh. There's the > good, the bad, and the ugly. I'm looking for the ugly here... > -Monika > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:05:25 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: Joni and birds There was a recent discussion about Joni's use of bird imagery. Without doing extensive research I've found only three albums... not counting live albums or compilations... that do not have a reference to a bird in some fashion. And they are: Court and Spark Wild Things Run Fast Dog Eat Dog ... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:28:31 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Joni and birds - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Sapp" that do not have a reference to a bird in some fashion. And they are: > > Court and Spark from 'Trouble Child' 'the peacock is afraid to parade' > Wild Things Run Fast from 'Underneath the Streetlight' 'I swear on the be-bop boys Chasing the black bird' > Dog Eat Dog from 'Shiny Toys' 'Walking on the beach at the end of the day Between the sand and the seagulls' Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:04:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Worst Joni covers While I love me some Joni covers, there have been quite a few turkeys I have stumbled upon over the years. Cheesy BSN's notwithstanding, here are a couple of real cringers in my opinion: "Blonde In The Bleachers" by Squiddly - taken from the All-Canadian "Back To The Garden", these folks completely dismantle the melody, rhythm, and lyrical intent of Joni's song. While I love a reinvention, this one is just too far off the mark for my tastes. http://download.yousendit.com/DEBD3B6D716EE679 "Rainy Night House" by Chad Jasmine - I don't know what's worse here, the rinkly-tink toy piano/harpsichord or Chad's vocals - both entities hit so many wrong notes and shifting rhythms it's truly tough to listen to, and Chad's opening screech sets the tone. http://download.yousendit.com/700554E244758BA0 As is always the case, beauty and ugliness is in the eye of the beholder, and you might just find something to behold here. But I don't. Bob, off to answer the beckoning of his hissing lawn NP: Kenny Wayne Shepherd, "While We Cry" ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:41:24 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni remarks Interesting about the pedal steel. What a strange, strange ...guitar. I would have never guessed. Kind of like the dulcimer as you say. I knew Joni played dulcimer during her early period, but I didn't realize how many songs, especially on Blue I'm thinking, until I saw some of the live performances recently on YouTube. The diary in it's entirety with all comments is here: Joni Mitchell Returns To "Shine" It was more of a "cheer-leading" effort than a critical review as all I had to go by were the lyrics which mesmerized me as usual, in that she conveys so much with such clarity and brevity, published on her web site well before the CD release, and some short samples which Amazon put up just days earlier I believe. So no I didn't get my 15 minutes of fame with my review up their with the countless others on her website but I think it will serve as my gift I will lay at the alter of Joni for helping me all these years since I was a teenager growing up in and Saudi Arabia, discovering and listening to C&S over and over. Because I was forced to travel so much from an early age, I identify with the lines of "Hejira" more than any other work, although in all honesty I can identify with every single one of them. "You know it never has been easy, whether you do or do not resign, whether you travel the breadth of extremities, or stick to some straighter line" (Hejira) Mark in Florida. On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote in part: > Thank you for sharing. As for the pedal steel, it is a guitar. You > play it with a slide but it differs from slide guitar because it is placed > down (sort of like a dulcimer) on a stand and it is not shaped like a > regular guitar. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:45:50 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni and birds Excellent work there Mark, you must have a photographic memory when it comes to all things Joni!! I immediately recognized the C&S reference, but the other two would be fairly obscure to me. Mark in Florida. On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Mark Scott wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Sapp" > that do not have a reference to a bird in some fashion. And they are: > > > > > Court and Spark > > > > from 'Trouble Child' > > 'the peacock is afraid to parade' > > Wild Things Run Fast > > > > from 'Underneath the Streetlight' > > 'I swear on the be-bop boys > Chasing the black bird' > > Dog Eat Dog > > > > from 'Shiny Toys' > > 'Walking on the beach at the end of the day > Between the sand and the seagulls' > > > Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 14:08:05 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Throwing the lightness on these things Just briefly scanned those lyrics...one of the many songs in which she references birds...this time the eagle for it's clarity and wisdom - and other songs for the man-made notion of "justice". ...(as opposed to the omnipresent crow which is more akin to her references to the serpent, or humanity's base naked desire - which she employs liberally in this song - and Song For Sharon off the top of my head). My favorite lines from the song: "Here in Good-Old-God-Save-America The home of the brave and the free We are all hopelessly oppressed cowards Of some duality Of restless multiplicity ( Oh say can you see)" I'd say you need to keep 'just one good eye' on that brother of yours identifying with such sentiments!! Mark in Florida. On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote in part: > Anyway, we were listening to DJRD and in my brother's half awake stage > (we shop early and he stays up late) he perked up when he heard the line, > "put me at the top of your danger list." For whatever reason in his > demented mind (nothing against the line or the song which I love but he is > demented nonetheless) he really enjoyed that line and automatically texted > it to a few people. He told me he thought it was good and that it sounded > like a line from a movie. He occasionally says it now at random.... > Just some triviality for your weekend... > -Monika > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:32:18 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: Re: Joni and birds Wow thanks Mark... so there are birds in every single album... ... signing off for now, Peace, David Mark Scott wrote: - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Sapp" that do not have a reference to a bird in some fashion. And they are: > > Court and Spark from 'Trouble Child' 'the peacock is afraid to parade' > Wild Things Run Fast from 'Underneath the Streetlight' 'I swear on the be-bop boys Chasing the black bird' > Dog Eat Dog from 'Shiny Toys' 'Walking on the beach at the end of the day Between the sand and the seagulls' Mark in Seattle - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 14:26:21 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Worst Joni covers Bob, Well with a name like "Squiddly" I think I'll just take your word they probably don't do justice to Blonde in The Bleachers... Stop allowing the the lawn to hiss btw (I've always seen the reference as being to the keep-up-with-the-Jones' man-made world concept of excesses, such as unnatural lawns sprinkled and tended to in the heat of summer - let me know if I'm off the mark here, and delight in "fresh plowed sod" with carefree natives or make a victory garden or something similar! Mark in Florida. On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Bob Muller wrote in part: > While I love me some Joni covers, there have been quite a few turkeys I > have stumbled upon over the years. > > "Blonde In The Bleachers" by Squiddly - taken from the All-Canadian "Back > To The Garden", these folks completely dismantle the melody, rhythm, and > lyrical intent of Joni's song. While I love a reinvention, this one is just > too far off the mark for my tastes. > > Bob, off to answer the beckoning of his hissing lawn > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:13:30 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: SJC Timeless Interesting. Especially about timeless songs expressing fundamental truths. I've heard Joni talk as well about her composing and here's my wild off the top guess: She composes the music first, as you say searching for chords and sounds, and later the lyrics. She will then change the melody of the song to some extent to accomodate a certain word or phrase if she feels it's relevant. She considers herself a painter first, and that she is "painting with words". But she is not fond of most poetry (with certain obvious exceptions as it gets ... too deep). I'd say that considering she has gone to the effort to find many dozens of different "open tunings" o the guitar which fit her sentiments, that maybe her music has the edge when it comes to self expression. I've seen her express her clarity of vision in different interviews, and her being a wordsmith seems almost something that comes naturally and she is gifted with. So I'm thinking that her experimentation with so many different types of musical instruments, (and complex tunings with some such as the guitar producing unique chords) indicates to me she considers almost equally important when it comes to self expression, but that the music has the edge. There are two artists I have listened to quite a bit in the past, Kate Bush and Tori Amos. They remind me more of each other than they do Joni but the piano and confessional style of singer-songwriting is similar to an extent. To me, their lyrics are so personal, as are Joni's, but unlike Joni they are often incomprehensible (to me) as they often reference things so personal that the references are nearly indecipherable. In the case of these two, it is often the palpable emotion in their vocals as well as the music rather than the lyrics themselves which gives me a "feeling" of what they are singing about. They are among my favorite singers, although Tori REALLY disappointed me with her follow-up to "The Beekeeper" with her "Tori Takes On" 5 different personnas in her latest effort "American Doll Posse" - just too complex and convoluted for me so far, maybe one day it will "grow" on me as did her other works. I always come back to Joni though, preferring the clarity of the lyrics - which as you observed are "timeless", the inimitable voice, and the unique guitar tunings and chords. Just my two cents anyways. Mark in Florida. On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > I was just reading a recent interview with Roger Waters in which he said > "timeless songs are truthful songs." I think he hit something there. He > also said that "music is communicating feelings to human beings" which I > also like. > This makes me wonder something about Joni...we all know that Joni's > lyrics express some truth in them whether it be truth to life truth to > herself to you, etc etc. We all know Joni's words hit us deeply. They are, > for lack of a better word, emotional. You can feel it. > However, Joni has said that when she composes music she starts > playing around with different chords/tunings until she feels like she has > captured the right emotion in them. She "plays" what she "feels." Now I'm > sure a lot of musicians sort of go through that process too but some pay > strict attention to theory as well. I suppose I've never heard someone who > said they "search" for the right chord of "feeling." I guess all musicians > do so in a way without even realizing. I wonder though how much Joni > attributes to her music/chords vs. her lyrics when it comes to self > expression. That would be something I would ask her, if I were a > journalist, doing an interview (but I'd phrase my question a bit better). > -Monika > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:51:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Worst Joni covers NJC My idea of "lawn care" is pretty simple, actually. the majority of the property is plant & flower beds, perennials. Don't have to do anything there. What grass I have is a combination of centipede and bermuda that chokes out weeds and is drought-resistant so I don't ever mess with fertilizers, chemicals, weed killers, or watering. And when I do have to cut it, I use my battery-powered mower. I do enjoy getting out and tending to it and have to get out fairly early in the day so I don't become mosquito food. Bob NP: Smashing Pumpkins, "Farewell & Goodnight" ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:12:06 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Worst Joni covers NJC Bob, yeah I agree perennials are the way to go. Season-long, even year long color here in the swamp state...oops I mean "the sunshine state". Growing up, when I was not trying to figure out Joni's social commentary on THOSL and subsequent works "Mingus, etc" I was often memorizing the botanical latin names of plants as I perused plant encyclopedias for fun - don't everyone be jealous all at once now - but seriously gardening is my favorite pastime next to my pets, I just wish I had more land like you to grow things. With all those mosquitoes, sounds like you are not too far from FLA, USA. Mark in Florida. On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Bob Muller wrote: > > > My idea of "lawn care" is pretty simple, actually. the majority of the > property is plant & flower beds, perennials. Don't have to do anything > there. > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:22:47 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Lucy In The Sky With Diamond, NJC Rian I never knew the song had anything to do with Lucy the hominid, but interesting tidbit. I have heard the song so many times by the Beatles, Elton John, and umpteen covers...that I can barely listen to it. Doesn't mean I don't think it's not a good song. Same thing with "Big Yellow Taxi" on Shine. On my iTunes playlist I have it deselected as I have heard it sooooooooo many times I simply cannot bare to hear it even one more time for now, regardless of how brilliant the words in that simple ditty by Joni were. (I will make a small sacrifice at the alter of Joni for that remark). I can see why it was included, as it summed up simply decades ago what most of the songs on Shine speak to. I didn't know the specifics about Lucy but briefly it appears she was a hominid, that is to say an ape closely related to human beings and where humans can trace their ancestry. Hominids are members of the biological family *Hominidae * (the "great apes"), including the extinct and extant humans, chimpanzees , gorillas, and orangutans. (h/t Wikipedia) So when I think of "Lucy" I think of the few remaining chimpanzees who are our closest relatives, gorillas, and orangutans that are being decimated in search of bushmeat and will join the ranks of all the other extinct species as human population, forever anthropocentric, exponentially explodes. And it saddens me. For they are gone or soon to be gone forever, and have been the writing on the wall for decades of the future of most if not all of Homo sapiens. Maybe I will see the song in that light now, and have a fresh perspective, but those surreal words you use from the song speak to me more of of somebody "tripping" than anything else right now. Mark in Florida. On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:49 PM, Rian Afriadi wrote in part: > The story that a scientist named a hominid "Lucy", after The Beatles's > song > Lucy In The Sky With Diamond really makes me sick. Ever since i heard the > story, the beautiful Lucy dissapeared. It's painful to imagine a hairy > ape-like female hominid smiling in the sky everytime i listen to the > song.. I > can't get rid of that imagination. Is it just me? Do you feel the same? > Rian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:36:38 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: SJC Timeless - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Angelo" To: "Monika Bogdanowicz" Cc: "Joni people!" Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: Re: SJC Timeless > Interesting. Especially about timeless songs expressing fundamental > truths. > > There are two artists I have listened to quite a bit in the past, > Kate Bush > and Tori Amos. For years people on this list talked about Kate Bush and I had never paid that much attention to her. At some point I broke down and bought a used copy of 'Hounds of Love' and it just didn't click with me. Then a friend sent me the lyrics to 'Wuthering Heights' and later gave me the cd 'The Whole Story'. WH gave me a frame of reference as I love the story and thought Kate captured its spirit so beautifully in the song. I was also intrigued by some of the other songs on 'The Whole Story'. So I dug out 'Hounds of Love' again and started really paying attention when listening to it. Now it is a favorite of mine. I ended up getting the remastered version with some bonus tracks on it from Amazon and I think it's one of the great pop or whatever you want to call it records of my time. they often reference things so > personal that the references are nearly indecipherable. In the case of these > two, it is often the palpable emotion in their vocals as well as the > music > rather than the lyrics themselves which gives me a "feeling" of what > they > are singing about. I understand completely what you are saying here although Tori Amos is just a bit too obscure for my taste, at least what little I know of her (a sampler tape that a friend made for me years ago). Rickie Lee Jones is another performer that I have come to reverence all most as much as Joni and there are many of her songs that are the same way. I call it impressionistic although I don't know if that's the right term to apply to it. The songs make me feel something. I develope my own interpretations of what they mean to me. Sometimes just the emotion in Rickie Lee's voice is enough to make me feel very deeply even though I might not be feeling or thinking about whatever she was when she sang the particular song. > > I always come back to Joni though, preferring the clarity of the > lyrics - > which as you observed are "timeless", the inimitable voice, and the > unique > guitar tunings and chords. I agree that there is a wonderful clarity to most of Joni's lyrics. In my case, however, certain songs relate to certain aspects of my life so they come to mean something to me that they might not necessarily mean to someone else. And the longer you are on this list, the more you will find that people interpret Joni's lyrics in all kinds of ways. And who's to say which interpretation is the 'correct' one? Except, of course, for my interpretation of 'your notches liberation doll' which I *know* is the right one ;-) (reference to an old thread that still rears its head from time to time) Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:58:17 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: SJC Timeless On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 7:36 PM, Mark Scott wrote in part: > So I dug out 'Hounds of Love' again and started really paying attention > when listening to it. Now it is a favorite of mine. I ended up getting the > remastered version with some bonus tracks on it from Amazon and I think it's > one of the great pop or whatever you want to call it records of my time. > I was lucky enough to be introduced to Kate's music with the earlier "Never For Ever". Yes "Hounds of Love" is a remarkable work of Kate Bushs' with the one side being themed with one song segueing into another, and the other side containing disparate but truly memorable songs. I believe the album was promoted (unsuccessfully) to firmly plant Kate as a household word in the US as she is in her native Britain where she is highly revered. It didn't work, however, "Running up that Hill" (A deal with God) was perhaps Kate's biggest domestic "hit". "The Big Sky" was a commercial Big Flop unfortunately and her music never received the revered status in the US as in always has in her native England. The song, "This Woman's Work", because of the inclusion in a popular American film (...alright really because of Kevin Bacon), brought a tiny bit more recognition. (Americans are not shallow, they just elect the like of GWB for two terms). Interestingly, after people kept mistaking Tori Amos for Kate Bush early on when she was playing in gay bars for a living, she bought a copy of Hounds of Love. She loved it as I recall, and loaned it out and it was never returned which Tori was fine with, as she saw the similarities herself, and did not want to end up being overly influenced by this fantastic singer/songwriter. > > Rickie Lee Jones is another performer that I have come to reverence all > most as much as Joni and there are many of her songs that are the same way. > I call it impressionistic although I don't know if that's the right term to > apply to it. The songs make me feel something. I develop my own > interpretations of what they mean to me. > I have never really given her music an honest, sit-down-and-listen-to-a-whole-album-listen. I will have to do that. With the ridiculous price of CD's when they cost pennies to manufacture, and little goes to the artist, I have pretty much stopped buying them all together. "Shine" was an exception of course, as I knew every single song would be worth my while - except "Big Yellow Taxi" - which I cringe at only because I cannot listen to it the melody even one more time - it was a very prescient little ditty, and I understand it's inclusion, but ... honestly...I HATE IT I HAVE HEARD IT A GAZILLION TIMES - not really, it's brilliant lyrically but she has so many other song's that would have fit in equally as well...such as The Tealeaf Prophecy (Lay Down Your Arms) which I can't stop listening to which she chose to do with Herbie. The lyrics: "Don't Have Children When You Are Grown Because this world is shattered The wise are mourning And the fools are joking Oh what does it matter?" would have fit in perfectly as well with the fundamental theme of "Shine". " Sometimes just the emotion in Rickie Lee's voice is enough to make me feel very deeply even though I might not be feeling or thinking about whatever she was when she sang the particular song." Yeah, Tori affects me the same way. For instance her live performance aptly and with some irony named "Welcome to Sunny Florida" - the concert was taped in West Palm Beach when we were having one of our rain deluges - has a rendition of "Sugar" on it, with an additional part where she is almost wailing, that always gets to me emotionally no matter and I had never particularly thought much about or really liked the original version of the song. When I read that she composed it basically on the spot, and all the while was thinking of the late Freddie Mercury in miniature form standing on her shoulder, I interpret that outpouring of emotion as being about his loss (correctly or incorrectly) and it floors me every time. I agree that there is a wonderful clarity to most of Joni's lyrics. In my > case, however, certain songs relate to certain aspects of my life so they > come to mean something to me that they might not necessarily mean to someone > else. And the longer you are on this list, the more you will find that > people interpret Joni's lyrics in all kinds of ways. And who's to say which > interpretation is the 'correct' one? > True, I stated earlier today, maybe even in this thread, how I related to all of Joni's work, but that "Hejira" seemed to come up particularly, because of living in something like 11 different states and being raised in the Middle East - the word Hejira being of Arab origin for "journey" (Kuwait, then Saudi Arabia and a brief period in Nigeria) and incessant moving and traveling. "Real isn't how you are made," said the Skin Horse. "It's a thing that happens to you." - The Velveteen Rabbit - has a meaning that is accepted by most everyone as involving one of life's two greatest needs, those being security and then significance (the "accepted" meaning of the words, you become real by becoming significant to other people). But I always viewed the words as meaning you are largely a product of your own life's experiences. So to me they will always mean both... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:27:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: Re: Worst Joni covers, this time NJC Jerry wrote: Anyone singing Both Sides Now in Japanese! There are dozens of them, and somehow our Covers King manages to find more :) Jerry >>> IMO, Japanese singing English song is not "ugly"/"bad", it's funny. As you know, Japanese can't pronounce words like flu, blue, clouds, tower, life, rocking etc without a proper training. Their language makes them like that. Is there any Japanese here? Rian who is lonely because his favorite family relative now works in Japan (teaching Bahasa Indonesia to Japanese) _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:47:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: Re: Lucy In The Sky With Diamond, NJC+Clockwork Orange by Stanley Kubrick Mark #3 (from Florida) (#1 from Seatlle, #2 from Sydney) wrote: Rian I never knew the song had anything to do with Lucy the hominid, but interesting tidbit. >>>> Here's a cut from an article that I found from Encarta Encyclopedia : ..... In 1973 Johanson began to search for fossil remains of hominines, the primitive ancestors of modern humans, in the Hadar Valley in the Afar region of northeastern Ethiopia. He made his most famous discovery in 1974 when he unearthed a 3 million-year-old skeleton of a female hominine. Johanson informally named his discovery Lucy, after the song Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds by British rock music group the Beatles.. Formally, Johanson decided the skeleton belonged to a previously unknown species of primitive hominines belonging to the genus Australopithecus (see Australopithecines). He assigned it the classification A. afarensis (Southern Ape from the Afar region). The skeleton, about 40 percent complete, revealed that Lucy had a small brain, but walked erect much like modern humans.. Johansons discovery dealt a major blow to the previously common belief that fully erect posture evolved alongside larger brains and tool-making skills. A. afarensis demonstrated that bipedalism (walking upright on two feet) had evolved much earlier than large brains. ..... Mark also wrote : So when I think of "Lucy" I think of the few remaining chimpanzees who are our closest relatives, gorillas, and orangutans that are being decimated in search of bushmeat and will join the ranks of all the other extinct species as human population, forever anthropocentric, exponentially explodes. And it saddens me. For they are gone or soon to be gone forever, and have been the writing on the wall for decades of the future of most if not all of Homo sapiens. >>>> When I was 10, i had a chance to hug a small orangutan (a tamed one) (or perhaps that orangutan who hugged me). It was sooo warm (but smells REALLY BAD!!!) Rian PS. As if you didn't know : in bahasa melayu/bahasa indonesia, orang = man, utan (hutan) = forest/jungle. So, never call orangutan simply "orangs" PS #2 : The word "orang" is actually used as the title of Clockwork Orange by Stanley Kubrick. So, it has nothing to do with oranges. Clockwork Orange = Clockwork Man. If you have seen the movie, you'll get the meaning... On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:49 PM, Rian Afriadi wrote in part: > The story that a scientist named a hominid "Lucy", after The Beatles's > song > Lucy In The Sky With Diamond really makes me sick. Ever since i heard the > story, the beautiful Lucy dissapeared. It's painful to imagine a hairy > ape-like female hominid smiling in the sky everytime i listen to the > song.. I > can't get rid of that imagination. Is it just me? Do you feel the same? > Rian _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:11:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: Re: Joni and birds Banquet from ForTheRoses also has a reference about Seagull. Go find it! Rian NP. Joni - 2 Grey Rooms (demo) _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:20:33 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Re: Joni and birds Too easy! :-) ;-) "I took my share down by the sea Paper plates and Javex bottles on the tide Seagulls come down And they squawk at me Down where the water skiers glide . . . " On 4/26/08, Rian Afriadi wrote: > > Banquet from ForTheRoses also has a reference about Seagull. > Go find it! > Rian > NP. Joni - 2 Grey Rooms (demo) > > _____________________________________________________________________________ > _______ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > - -- Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:37:25 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Worst Joni covers, this time NJC Rian from Indonesia wrote:>>> IMO, > Japanese singing English song is not "ugly"/"bad", it's funny. As you > know, > Japanese can't pronounce words like flu, blue, clouds, tower, life, > rocking etc without a proper training. Their language makes them like > that. > Is > there any Japanese here? > Rian > Yes sometimes it can be a scream - I guess I'm not being PC - oh well - but I recall the movie "Lost in The Translation" which I was one of the few who didn't particularly care for apparently, but I couldn't stop laughing at the scene with the Japanese call girl (IMDB "Premium Fantasy Woman") *Premium Fantasy woman *: Mr. Kazu sent me, premium fantasy. My stockings. Rip them. [*sounds like "lip them"*] *Premium Fantasy woman *: Rip my stockings. Yes, please, rip them. *Bob *: What? *Premium Fantasy woman *: Rip them. HEY! Rip my stocking! *Bob *: Hey? Lip them? Lip them? What? - ------------------------------ [*rolling around on the floor, waving her legs in the air*] *Premium Fantasy woman *: Oh Mr. Harris! Don't touch me! Mr. Bob Harris! Just rip my stocking! Also the word "rice" You hungry for some "lice"? NP: Two Grey Rooms ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:42:15 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni and birds That was fast Terra!! Now what exactly are Javex bottles? Canadian version of Chlorox? And are they swirling in the gyre twice as big as the continental US in the Pacific Ocean? "Plastics Make It Possible" ummmmmmmm yeah...... NP: Two Grey Rooms On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 12:20 AM, T Peckham wrote: > Too easy! :-) ;-) > > "I took my share down by the sea > Paper plates and Javex bottles on the tide > Seagulls come down > And they squawk at me > Down where the water skiers glide . . . " ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:59:34 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni and birds OK, I just looked it up on the internet. Yeah they are plastic bottles of Canadian Chlorox (bleach). I really need to brush up on my early Joni. When I was old enough to finally appreciate the musical direction she was going in instead of expecting more of the C&S formula as well as gain perspective in life to understand the social commentary that as she was increasingly writing about I pretty much stopped listening to C&S and all previous works. In fact I need to purchase them all again except for C&S as they were all albums I have long since lost somewhere in my many moves. Mark in Florida. On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 12:42 AM, Mark Angelo wrote: > That was fast Terra!! Now what exactly are Javex bottles? Canadian version > of Chlorox? And are they swirling in the gyre twice as big as the > continental US in the Pacific Ocean? > > "Plastics Make It Possible" ummmmmmmm yeah...... > > NP: Two Grey Rooms > > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 12:20 AM, T Peckham > wrote: > > > Too easy! :-) ;-) > > > > "I took my share down by the sea > > Paper plates and Javex bottles on the tide > > Seagulls come down > > And they squawk at me > > Down where the water skiers glide . . . " ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:00:43 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Re: Joni and birds Hi Mark, I just happened to look in about five minutes after Rian posted the challenge. It came to me right away because, of course, it's from the first song on *For the Roses, *which was the first Joni album I bought. It remains--if forced to choose--my favorite (with *Hejira* coming in a very close second). I was aware of Joni but for some reason hadn't really picked up on her--how I "missed" *Blue* when it first came out, I'll never know--but the Stephen Davis review in Rolling Stone convinced me I had to hear this album. (That was back in the days when RS, while sometimes wrong-headed, at least had good writers who were passionate about music.) I just went over to the JM library and reread it; it sounds a little dated here and there, but it's beautifully written and still conveys the essence of the album and does exactly what it's supposed to do: make me want to drop everything and just listen to the record again. http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=257 As for Javex, I wondered for the longest time exactly what it was--not sure when or where I finally read that it was just a cleaning product--nothing exotic as I had imagined it might be! On 4/26/08, Mark Angelo wrote: > > > OK, I just looked it up on the internet. Yeah they are plastic bottles of > Canadian Chlorox (bleach). I really need to brush up on my early Joni. When > I was old enough to finally appreciate the musical direction she was going > in instead of expecting more of the C&S formula as well as gain perspective > in life to understand the social commentary that as she was increasingly > writing about I pretty much stopped listening to C&S and all previous works. > In fact I need to purchase them all again except for C&S as they were all > albums I have long since lost somewhere in my many moves. > > Mark in Florida. > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 12:42 AM, Mark Angelo > wrote: > > > That was fast Terra!! Now what exactly are Javex bottles? Canadian > > version of Chlorox? And are they swirling in the gyre twice as big as the > > continental US in the Pacific Ocean? > > > > "Plastics Make It Possible" ummmmmmmm yeah...... > > > > NP: Two Grey Rooms > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 12:20 AM, T Peckham > > wrote: > > > > > Too easy! :-) ;-) > > > > > > "I took my share down by the sea > > > Paper plates and Javex bottles on the tide > > > Seagulls come down > > > And they squawk at me > > > Down where the water skiers glide . . . " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - -- Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my sweet ass. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #45 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------