From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #34 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, April 17 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 034 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Windfall [] RE; The Windfall ["Anita Tedder" ] Re: RE; The Windfall [Bob Muller ] SV: RE; The Windfall ["Marion Leffler" ] The Windfall [Michel BYRNE ] RE: RE; The Windfall ["Anita Tedder" ] Re; The Windfall ["Anita Tedder" ] The Windfall, another thing ["Anita Tedder" ] Joni Mitchell Retro Covers, Volume 25 [Bob Muller ] Girls Like Us ["James Leahy" ] Re: The Windfall (Everything For Nuthin) Discussion ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Bob and Joni Jeopardy [PassScribe@aol.com] RE: Girls Like Us [anon anon ] tonight's Democratic debate njc [Deb Messling ] Re: The Windfall (Everything For Nuthin) Discussion ["Mark Angelo" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:55:55 -0700 From: Subject: Windfall Mark, That is my favorite line, too! I never liked the music but loved the lyrics in the song and also thought it was generally about greedy people and also maybe about bitterness with her ex. (Apologies to Klein). It seemed so personal that I would never have imagined it was about her maid! Then again, the droning music of the song kind of perfectly reflects the sense of unforgiving, somewhat seething rage in the lyrics. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:24:42 +0100 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: RE; The Windfall My belief in myself as a Joni know-all has taken a severe knock this morning when I read my digest. What is this song 'The Windfall?' What album was it on? Then I wondered if, as everyone seems to hate so much, that the experience for me of hearing it was so traumatic that I've blocked it out. Do I need to go back to my therapist and report myself as suffering with PTSD? I've been through my albums and just can't see it. Whilst I'm writing, my mate Amy Wadge has her new album out 'Bump'. She's just had her baby. It's a super album, recorded in just two days and, as a consequence, feels mighty real. It also includes a song called 'These are the songs' which starts off saying "15 years old with a bashed up guitar, just trying to learn some chords. I played Joni till my fingers bled, big head full of big time thoughts.' There's a whole lot more to the verse, but the chorus then reads: " These are the songs that saved my life, these are the songs that saved my soul. These are the anthems on which we all survive. Sing along with me." It's very stirring and I think folk here would appreciate the song, as well as the album. It really has some super, super songs. Best new album since 'Shine' and Jenny Goodspeed! Check Amy out at: www.amywadge.com I think she also has a page on my space, and if anyone can send a link for that Windfall song - or just tell me where it is, I'd be most grateful...or looking at the comments, maybe I won't! Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:40:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: RE; The Windfall On Night Ride Home, nestling between "Cherokee Louise" and "Slouching". Bob NP: Arrested Development, "Tennessee" ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:05:57 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: RE; The Windfall Night Ride Home, track 4. Don't kill the messenger - but hey, I am recovering from pneumonia right now, so what else can happen to me? Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Anita Tedder Skickat: den 16 april 2008 11:25 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: RE; The Windfall My belief in myself as a Joni know-all has taken a severe knock this morning when I read my digest. What is this song 'The Windfall?' What album was it on? Then I wondered if, as everyone seems to hate so much, that the experience for me of hearing it was so traumatic that I've blocked it out. Do I need to go back to my therapist and report myself as suffering with PTSD? I've been through my albums and just can't see it. Whilst I'm writing, my mate Amy Wadge has her new album out 'Bump'. She's just had her baby. It's a super album, recorded in just two days and, as a consequence, feels mighty real. It also includes a song called 'These are the songs' which starts off saying "15 years old with a bashed up guitar, just trying to learn some chords. I played Joni till my fingers bled, big head full of big time thoughts.' There's a whole lot more to the verse, but the chorus then reads: " These are the songs that saved my life, these are the songs that saved my soul. These are the anthems on which we all survive. Sing along with me." It's very stirring and I think folk here would appreciate the song, as well as the album. It really has some super, super songs. Best new album since 'Shine' and Jenny Goodspeed! Check Amy out at: www.amywadge.com I think she also has a page on my space, and if anyone can send a link for that Windfall song - or just tell me where it is, I'd be most grateful...or looking at the comments, maybe I won't! Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:05:49 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: The Windfall I'm with Mark on this one. I agree that the real-life events behind the song are tacky, petty, and, yes, show Joni as at times incredibly unaware of her privilege in life. But taken as an angry song about greed it works really well imo. I love the guitar work and backing vocals especially, but the clever punchy lyrics too (yep, even the jaguar pun!). Definitely one of my favourites from NRH (better than anything on the B-side, imo, except Two Grey Rooms). I only wish i didn't know what inspired the song in the first place. One reviewer presumed the speaker was addressing a boyfriend, or some hanger-on, which is how I interpreted it too. So I'm glad Joni wrote, recorded and released the song, but I wish she'd kept totally schtum about the connection with her maid. (Except that it's now evidence of art being created from the petty dross of life, I suppose.) Sorry guys. Mich _________________________________________________________________ Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap http://www.bigsnapsearch.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:23:46 +0100 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: RE: RE; The Windfall Thanks Marion. Sorry to hear you're so poorly. Keep well! Anita - -----Original Message----- From: Marion Leffler [mailto:marionleffler@telia.com] Sent: 16 April 2008 11:06 To: 'Anita Tedder'; joni@smoe.org Subject: SV: RE; The Windfall Night Ride Home, track 4. Don't kill the messenger - but hey, I am recovering from pneumonia right now, so what else can happen to me? Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Anita Tedder Skickat: den 16 april 2008 11:25 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: RE; The Windfall My belief in myself as a Joni know-all has taken a severe knock this morning when I read my digest. What is this song 'The Windfall?' What album was it on? Then I wondered if, as everyone seems to hate so much, that the experience for me of hearing it was so traumatic that I've blocked it out. Do I need to go back to my therapist and report myself as suffering with PTSD? I've been through my albums and just can't see it. Whilst I'm writing, my mate Amy Wadge has her new album out 'Bump'. She's just had her baby. It's a super album, recorded in just two days and, as a consequence, feels mighty real. It also includes a song called 'These are the songs' which starts off saying "15 years old with a bashed up guitar, just trying to learn some chords. I played Joni till my fingers bled, big head full of big time thoughts.' There's a whole lot more to the verse, but the chorus then reads: " These are the songs that saved my life, these are the songs that saved my soul. These are the anthems on which we all survive. Sing along with me." It's very stirring and I think folk here would appreciate the song, as well as the album. It really has some super, super songs. Best new album since 'Shine' and Jenny Goodspeed! Check Amy out at: www.amywadge.com I think she also has a page on my space, and if anyone can send a link for that Windfall song - or just tell me where it is, I'd be most grateful...or looking at the comments, maybe I won't! Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:39:05 +0100 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: Re; The Windfall Well, well, well. Thanks for the info and OF COURSE I know it. I so often go on about synchronicity and me and this list and here it is again. I have a day off work. I am writing a defence to a claim for damages by this seemingly nice (at the time) chap. It's so UNFAIR you wouldn't believe it. I have just written a 5 page epic response which I am summarising as we speak, but it currently ends: "His lack of care for both the house and the garden, combined with his bullying, arrogant and pompous nature had begun to tarnish all the fond memories of our lovely, beautiful home. We decided we would never ever want to let our house again because it might mean we would have to deal with people, like him, unreasonable and totally unable to accept personal responsibility in daily life." I probably won't send it like that, but it is how I feel. Then you guys talk about 'The Windfall' and Bob and Marion send me to it. Of course I remember it now. So I am playing it as we speak. I LOVE IT!!!! It's sent for me today!!! No trauma at all - a cathartic deliverance. He drives a red Porsche, I drive a 7 year old Nissan Micra and he's suing me. Yup - he'd 'eat your young alive, for a Jaguar in the drive.' Anita NP- The Windfall (on repeat) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:45:19 +0100 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: The Windfall, another thing MMmmmmm, yeah - It is kinda funky ....you should see my groovy moves as we speak.......You want, you want, you whaaaannttttt!!!!!!!!! Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:12:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Joni Mitchell Retro Covers, Volume 25 Well, I'm a day late and (thanks to the taxman) a dollar short, but here is this month's revival - a very fun and interesting mix. You'll find it downloadable here: http://download.yousendit.com/4645DC787B78FF17 And it will contain: 1. Dick Hyman - Big Yellow Taxi 2. Txarango - Both Sides Now 3. Frente - You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio (live) 4. Bill Laswell - Blue 5. Leni Stern - Court & Spark 6. Monty Alexander's Ivory & Steel - Big Yellow Taxi 7. Mama's Boys - This Flight Tonight 8. Dianne Davidson - Carey 9. Tom Clay - Both Sides Now 10. Christine Tobin Band - A Chair In The Sky 11. Christine Tobin Band - The Priest 12. Dave Douglas - Roses Blue 13. The Travellers - The Circle Game 14. Kenny Vehkavarra & Silvio Simone - Big Yellow Taxi 15. Denny Brooks - Both Sides Now 16. Complexblue - All I Want 17. Danny Cox - The Urge For Going Enjoy, and as Winnie the Pooh says, "Happy Winds-day!" Bob NP: Joni, "Answer Me, My Love" ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:52:24 -0400 From: "James Leahy" Subject: Girls Like Us Sheila Weller states in the book's acknowledgments that "Joni sent word that she did not want to be grouped in a book with two others." How typically Joni. Weller's book also mentions Joni's maid Dora (Dora says "Have children!"), who seems like she had been working for Joni for a long time before "Windfall" was recorded. The author mentions all the gifts and Club Med holidays Joni bestowed on her piano-painting maid. This book gives a much more detailed picture of what Joni was like as a person than anything I've read before. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:35:37 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: The Windfall (Everything For Nuthin) Discussion I have read all the opinions about Joni's song "The Windfall" from NRH. Interesting tidbit to learn it was penned about her maid, in my mind I always thought it was about some spurned love interest of hers. Unlike most other opinions, I have to say it has always been one of my favorite songs on the album. I love the sequence of guitar chords she chose, and the I think the lyrics of the song totally fit in with her social commentary at the time reflected in titles of albums such as "Dog Eat Dog" and there was much anger in the lyrics of many of her songs. Lyrics such as these taken from The Windfall "In the land of litigation The courts are like game shows Take what's behind the curtain The jury cries" are really not much different than "I saw a little lawyer on the tube He said "It's so easy now anyone can sue" "Let me show you how your petty aggravations can profit you!" from The Three Great Stimulants and countless other references to lawyers even appearing as late as TTT in No Apologies: "Tire skids and teeth marks What happened to this place Lawyers and loan sharks Are Laying America to waste" Unlike one poster, I think the lyrics "You'd eat your young alive, for a Jaguar in the drive" are brilliant and summarize in one sentence the excesses of a culture of consumerism that is imploding now and from which the MSM is not even able to distract the average American. Finally in her brilliant album Shine, she simply puts forth the obvious social and resultant environmental commentary which she has been proffering for decades to little fanfare, but as the review in Mojo states, she does so without the anger and disbelief that was evident in earlier works, saying that "If I had a heart I'd cry", and delivers the devastating message she has warned of for so long just like Mojo says "We're going to hell in a handbasket. Have a nice day". Human worship of it's own ego as she states has poisoned our own home. Now if I can just believe that miracles are possible, as she commented in the EPK for Shine. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:13:49 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: Night Ride Home locus Does anyone know what happened to the kitten? The song is prettier than the story. Leave it to Joni to create something beautiful out of what must have been a horrible end to their otherwise pleasantly surreal evening. I guess that's what true artists do. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Muller" To: "Randy Remote" ; Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:29 PM Subject: Re: Night Ride Home locus > took with Larry to Canada ie home.> > > Nope - Hawaii is the correct answer, but we do have some nice parting > gifts for you Mr. Remote. > > Here's an excerpt from an interview with Chris Douridas in 1994: >......................... >......................... > JM: -- because they were with their rockets at the beginning of the > evening and this little kitten was in there. But the whole thing was kind > of surreal and enchanted. > LK: Like a film. > JM: Yeah, it was like this funny little film. > ********************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:46:15 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob and Joni Jeopardy > loveuconn@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: Bob's Encyclopedia of Joni > > Notre ami Kenny B (that rhymes! ha ha....in some office sits a poet) wrote: > > "Bob, your knowledge of all-things-Joni (and you're ability to > seemingly find these things so easily) never ceases to amaze me. If they ever have a > Jeopardy tournament with all Joni-related categories, I'd bet on you to win." > > **** > > Moi, aussi! Or if "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" had a Joni game, he would > definitely be numero uno on my "call a friend" list. Don't you get three > "call a friends" or whatever? (Actually though, by virtue of his initials, he > should be #2, as he said himself!) But then again, you could call anyone on > this list who could be sitting in front of his/her computer and, thanks to > Les & JMDL.com & CO, we'd get the answer. (TIC! "She knows the answer....) > > A Joni Jeopardy game would be so fun! > > Patti, your Jeopardy! game show preview had me LOL! Great stuff! Now, I know what we can do at the NEXT JoniFest: make up some Joni quiz show games, as you've suggested. And, with your mind and wit, I nominate YOU as Mistress of Ceremonies. Kenny B ************** It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:58:32 -0400 From: anon anon Subject: RE: Girls Like Us It's nice to learn more about Dora AND Betsy...> From: jleahy@sympatico.ca> To: joni@smoe.org> Subject: Girls Like Us> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:52:24 - -0400> > Sheila Weller states in the book's acknowledgments that "Joni sent word that > she did not want to be grouped in a book with two others." How typically > Joni.> > Weller's book also mentions Joni's maid Dora (Dora says "Have children!"), > who seems like she had been working for Joni for a long time before > "Windfall" was recorded. The author mentions all the gifts and Club Med > holidays Joni bestowed on her piano-painting maid.> > This book gives a much more detailed picture of what Joni was like as a > person than anything I've read before.> > Jim _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653 A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:45:29 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: tonight's Democratic debate njc At breakfast this morning, Husband and I started talking about the issues that are most important to us in the upcoming election, and we named five: global warming, the economy, Iraq, health care, and energy. (okay, I'd also add civil liberties, housing, education...but you get my drift). 35 minutes into tonight's debate on ABC, and so far not one substantive question has been raised. All the questions so far have been about Rev. Wright, and the "cling to guns and religion" thing, and "Who can win?" and "polls say thus and so." Damn, damn, damn, I despise the media. I wish one of the candidates would just say, "This is bullshit! Please ask us a question about the issues!" But they're playing the media's game, and it makes both of them look bad. :-( - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:12:20 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: The Windfall (Everything For Nuthin) Discussion - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kate Johnson Date: Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:13 PM Subject: Re: The Windfall (Everything For Nuthin) Discussion To: Mark Angelo Cc: joni@smoe.org Well put, Mark. Like you, I don't think the lyrics to The Windfall are beneath Joni at all; I think the personal aggravations that spurred on the writing of the song are every bit as important as a broken heart or commentary on broader issues in society, and that Joni has put them out there for us to relate to (or not), just like the rest of her songs. This has never been one of my favourites, but I have always thought it full of sharp observation about those who want everything for nothing -- this particular maid being just one example of someone who sees what the wealthy have and feel it is her right to have it, as well; that 'But for the grace of God, there go I." Kate of the North http://xoetc.antville.org Who Does She Think She Is? On 16-Apr-08, at 10:35 AM, Mark Angelo wrote: I have read all the opinions about Joni's song "The Windfall" from NRH. ... Unlike one poster, I think the lyrics "You'd eat your young alive, for a Jaguar in the drive" are brilliant and summarize in one sentence the excesses of a culture of consumerism that is imploding now and from which the MSM is not even able to distract the average American. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:06:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: tonight's Democratic debate njc It is because the media is a piece of shit. They already have this whole election figured out. As far as polls go, if one more person tells me "this poll says this" or "that poll says that" as a response to something I am going to lose it man. So the media can f off...the only real important people in this campaign are Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John McCain. -M, who had the most hellish day...personal stuff...family stuff...hospital stuff... P.S. My apologies for my weird post. I haven't even watched the debate yet. Haven't even had a chance...haven't been home since morning... Deb Messling wrote: At breakfast this morning, Husband and I started talking about the issues that are most important to us in the upcoming election, and we named five: global warming, the economy, Iraq, health care, and energy. (okay, I'd also add civil liberties, housing, education...but you get my drift). 35 minutes into tonight's debate on ABC, and so far not one substantive question has been raised. All the questions so far have been about Rev. Wright, and the "cling to guns and religion" thing, and "Who can win?" and "polls say thus and so." Damn, damn, damn, I despise the media. I wish one of the candidates would just say, "This is bullshit! Please ask us a question about the issues!" But they're playing the media's game, and it makes both of them look bad. :-( - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:39:59 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Re: Girls Like Us Emerging from lurkdom to post a link to Janet Maslin's review in Thursday's New York Times. She articulates much of what I've wanted to say about the book. I'm kind of surprised that so many seem to be reading the book in sections, one artist at a time. I guess because I'm equally interested in the lives of all three, I'm enjoying just reading it thru regular-like. Also wanted to address a comment someone--Bob?--made about Ms. Simon attaining her fame and success largely due to her beauty and "rich family." (Um, except for the beauty part, THAT would be Paris Hilton.)This is an old canard that hopefully will be put to rest by this book, if nothing else. Yes, Simon was born into a well-to-do family, but she and her siblings were not the ultra-rich heirs most people think they were (and as the book details, her childhood may have been privileged, but it was also emotionally, er, challenging!) She "made the most" of her advantages by writing, singing, playing, and recording music a lot of people loved. You can't "buy" a string of hit singles and albums, nor the kind of longevity her work enjoys (which is all the more remarkable because she never did the kind of incessant touring that is usually required.) Also, they don't give out Best Song Oscars (and repeated nominations) to those who are "merely" beautiful. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/books/17masl.html?ref=arts On 4/14/08, Deb Messling wrote: > I'm almost done with the Joni sections. It certainly held my interest. Her portrayal of Joni's pregnancy seems especially empathetic, and very fair. Overall, thought, it's still not the portrayal I'm waiting for. As James said, it's mostly about her relationships with men. I can't say that part wasn't interesting, and I was once again struck by how many former lovers have such high regard for her. Still, despite enjoying all the love affair stuff, I would have been interested in hearing more about her work, and about her struggles as a woman in the sexist music business. > > And in a book that seeks to place these musicians in some kind of feminist narrative, I wonder why Weller omitted any discussion of Joni's well-documented hostility to feminism. > > > At 10:26 AM 4/14/2008, you wrote: > > > Has anyone had a chance to read Sheila Weller's new book, Girls Like Us? I bought it the other day and read all the Joni sections. There's a ton of stuff I hadn't heard before, mostly about Joni's relationships with men. That said, I do not think it is 'yellow journalism'. It seemed fairly thoughtful and, from what I can tell, pretty accurate (with the exception described below); it seems like a decent document of the changes that were happening for women, and for all of us, in the sixties and seventies. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deb Messling -^..^- > dlmessling@rcn.com > http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - -- Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my sweet ass. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #34 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------