From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #28 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, April 12 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 028 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni Lyrics in the news.... ["Jamie's Box of Paints" ] Bad Lyrics njc [Chuck Eisenhardt ] Re: NJC Lyricists [Deb Messling ] Re: NJC Lyricists [Em ] Joni in Japan? ["P. Henry" ] njc, Got MLK? in which David spouts off about politics again WARNING! [Pa] Re: njc, Got MLK? in which David spouts off about politics again WARNING! ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC Lyricists [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Joni Lyrics in the news.... [Catherine McKay ] (NJC) JoniFest Regina? ["Lori Fye" ] njc, Bobby Muller shines on the troops [Patti Parlette ] SV: Joni Lyrics in the news.... ["Marion Leffler" ] RE: njc, Bobby Muller shines on the troops [Patti Parlette ] Re: (NJC) JoniFest Regina? ["Lori Fye" ] njc, How do you stop the Stop-Loss? [Patti Parlette Subject: Joni Lyrics in the news.... http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2008/04/10/news/local/doc47fd46f94c509613389585.txt - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Facebook me! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:51:37 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: worst lyricists njc > This pretty old but if you haven't seen it, here are Blender's 40 worst lyricists: >1 Sting....... This list can't be right, because Rupert Holmes isn't on it. (Piqa Colada, anyone? or how about 'My Sharona', 'YMCA' and 'Ring My Bell') ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:56:02 -0400 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: Bad Lyrics njc ....sure, eveybody writes a stinker now and then, but sometimes, *sometimes*, even just one egregiously bad song can put you on the list..... http://www.accessbackstage.com/america/song/song005.htm ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:17:32 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: NJC Lyricists How could they omit Steve Miller? Abra abracadabra, I wanna reach out and grab ya At 11:09 AM 4/10/2008, you wrote: > This pretty old but if you haven't seen it, here are Blender's 40 > worst lyricists: - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:11:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: NJC Lyricists Even Pulitzer Prize winner Dylan has stinkers. Thinking of the alternative take lyrics to "Desolation Row"...talking about spoon feeding Casanova "the boiled guts of birds". :( thanks Bob. Thanks for that image. I really needed that, sir. Sometimes my brain latches onto that image while I'm sleeping and then I have a stomach ache all night. Em ps Happy Friday everyone! - --- Deb Messling wrote: > How could they omit Steve Miller? Abra abracadabra, I wanna reach > out and grab ya ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:14:04 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: Joni in Japan? A friend sent me this... I usually don't enjoy Grand Finale everybody-on-stage jams all that much but this I kinda liked. All in all a pretty interesting combination people and instruments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdSy7EajyPo&feature=related Cheers, Pat - --- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - --- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:02:45 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Got MLK? in which David spouts off about politics again WARNING! David wrote: So, forgive me for not getting the joke when McCain does his little Jan & Dean routine: "Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb, bomb Iran." I think that's exactly who he is, another immature frat boy who can't wait to get his finger on the trigger of the world's biggest military. And I'm not having any kind of sense of humor at all about that. ***** Friends don't let friends spout off alone. ; ) I can't get over that one. How DARE he make a joke about bombing human beings! I have the same reaction to that as Bush's infuriating: "Bring 'em ON!" way back when. Seems like many dim years ago he said that, when this war was supposed to last (paraphrasing Rumsfeld -- no time to check): "I don't know, 6 weeks, 6 months....") Shrug. Just more bang bang ketchup color to them....yeah, let's attack another country! They remind me of that board game we used to play in college (or university, as the Canadians say). Risk. Remember that one? You'd amass your little plastic pieces and attack a country. Sometimes you'd lose most of your pieces in one country, but then you'd line up some more to attack another country. A big surge. But those were just plastic pieces. These monsters are using our sons and daughters in their game. Their "noble cause." Strong and wrong. You cannot be trusted Do you even know you're lying It's dangerous to kid yourself You go deaf and dumb and blind. You take with such entitlement. You give bad attitude. You have no grace No empathy No gratitude You have no sense of consequence Oh my head is in my hands... Peace, Patti P., on the anti-war path "Hope has two beautiful children. Their names are Anger and Courage; Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain the way they are." (I borrowed that from a sociology prof's sig file....sorry I don't know the author.) _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:37:03 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: njc, Got MLK? in which David spouts off about politics again WARNING! Many disagree on the elected part. Kate > seven years later we have what amounts to an elected-dictatorship where the president claims not to be bound by the law,< David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:03:34 -0700 From: "Lindsay Moon" Subject: Shawn Colvin Song Recommendation (NJC) My radio station has played Shawn Colvin's version of "Crazy" (by Gnarls Barkley) and I love it. When that song used to come on the radio, I'd turn it off. But her version I love. Great guitar by her. I ran home and found it's on iTunes. Yippee! Another song to sing and dance around the grocery store to . Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:04:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni Lyrics in the news.... The other day I came across something that just made shake my head for a second. I came across some Science website (I don't know if it was a little community or from a University [I hope not] or someone's personal site or academic, etc etc). They had articles or essays or whatever in which they were discussing different topics and I came upon a Joni mention. One article/essay/whatever was named "Joni Mitchell must be turning in her grave." Ehhhh, ok? It was an article discussing different areas of land and how they get paved them into something else (man do people love the "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot" bit). Turning in her grave, eh? -M Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:14:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: NJC Lyricists I've always thought that you could have a set of bad lyrics but STILL have a good song if the music is indeed good. However, you could never turn it around. If you had even a set of GREAT lyrics put to horrible music, the song sucks. Period. Of course, I'm not trying to push down the worth of a song's lyrics. I'd split the importance of lyrics to music (in my opinion) to 50/50 even if what I said above might seem a little strange now that I say it is 50/50. Now I wouldn't say that if someone consistently puts out good music with shitty lyrics song after song after song that I would like them....but I can give 'em a pass for a song here or there. Then again, the artists/bands I like generally put out quality songs--consistently good lyrics and music or atleast decent lyrics/good music. Sure, there are songs you don't like but I haven't come across an artist who I like who can only do one or the other. I suppose I wouldn't like them if they did! Here's an example of bad lyrics but in a good song. I love the Who. Big Who fan here. Pinball Wizard is a really good song...strong music....strong vocals...good melody......though the lyrics are all very silly. A pinball wizard? Really? However, I still consider that a good song. -M Em wrote: Even Pulitzer Prize winner Dylan has stinkers. Thinking of the alternative take lyrics to "Desolation Row"...talking about spoon feeding Casanova "the boiled guts of birds". :( thanks Bob. Thanks for that image. I really needed that, sir. Sometimes my brain latches onto that image while I'm sleeping and then I have a stomach ache all night. Em ps Happy Friday everyone! - --- Deb Messling wrote: > How could they omit Steve Miller? Abra abracadabra, I wanna reach > out and grab ya Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:07:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Lyrics in the news.... - --- Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: One article/essay/whatever was named > "Joni Mitchell must be turning in her grave." > Ehhhh, ok? It was an article discussing different > areas of land and how they get paved them into > something else (man do people love the "they paved > paradise and put up a parking lot" bit). Turning in > her grave, eh? Well, y'know, like in some future-time alternate universe, eh? Catherine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:11:15 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) JoniFest Regina? Mags: > Lori, since I know you are reading this one ;-) , you > mentioned a Joni fest in Regina. Were you serious? Catherine: > Lori also asked about things that rhyme with Regina. > Angina? > Auntie Dinah? > South China? > Silly whinah? > > ;-) Mags again: > um, yea, Loori, what rhymes with Regina? Did you > mean Saskatoon? Um , do you need a lesson in > canadian geography? (yes I am joking!!) Regina is > within driving distance for a fest, but really, who would > go there?? ;PPP Very funny, ladies! And yes, I was a bit more than half-serious. Why not? As for who would go there ... raise your hands, people! Regina is actually a very lovely city. I would go, although it would take some planning (as all JoniFests do). Lori Santa Rosa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:32:45 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Bobby Muller shines on the troops You can't pull the wool over our Bobby Muller's eyes! No siree Bob! He'll kick the *covers* off their sleep, for the clumsy things they said: "But Bush's decision will affect only those troops sent to Iraq as of Aug. 1 or later, meaning that those already there still have to complete 15-month tours. Bobby Muller, president of Veterans for America, an advocacy group, said that nearly half of the Army's active-duty frontline units are currently deployed for 15 months, and that Bush's decision leaves them out. "In short, this is a hollow announcement; it has no immediate effect," Muller said. "It is nothing more than political posturing at the expense of our troops. Our soldiers are unraveling and they need their commander in chief to provide immediate relief." That's from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/09/AR2008040902225.html?sub=AR Plus, in 12 months, BushCo will be gone anyway and won't have a thing to say about what happens. (NPIMH: Allelluia Chorus!) They're just throwing us another Bush bone or rubber Thanksgiving turkey, like how we are always "turning a corner" or "Mission Accomplished", etc. Cheap PR tricks. My old dept. head, a lovely gentleman from Murcia, Spain, used to say (when someone was trying to hoodwink him): "Are YOU stupid, or do you think that *I * am stupid?" Anyway, good work, Bobby Muller! Peace, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:36:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: (NJC) JoniFest Regina? I'm always up for a good time with good friends. Have never been to Canada. Bob, hand in air NP: Red House Painters, "Ocean Beach" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:57:57 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Joni Lyrics in the news.... You tell them no no she is still chicken scratching for her immortality;-) Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Monika Bogdanowicz Skickat: den 11 april 2008 17:05 Till: Joni people!; Jamie's Box of Paints Dmne: Re: Joni Lyrics in the news.... The other day I came across something that just made shake my head for a second. I came across some Science website (I don't know if it was a little community or from a University [I hope not] or someone's personal site or academic, etc etc). They had articles or essays or whatever in which they were discussing different topics and I came upon a Joni mention. One article/essay/whatever was named "Joni Mitchell must be turning in her grave." Ehhhh, ok? It was an article discussing different areas of land and how they get paved them into something else (man do people love the "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot" bit). Turning in her grave, eh? -M Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:08:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: njc, Bobby Muller shines on the troops I'm proud to share my name with him...he did a lot of time working for Veterans back in the 80's working with Bruce Springsteen on the "Born In The USA" tour, or maybe it was even before that - I remember seeing pictures of the two of them together in Rolling Stone. And there may be LOTS of me, but there is only ONE Patti Parlette! Bob NP: Los Lobos, "Rio de Tanampa" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:49:44 -0400 From: "Phyliss Ward" Subject: Cayamo Songwriter's cruise NJC I went on this cruise in February and it was a really unique experience. I thought I'd pass along this info on the plans for 2009 in case anyone is interested. I have suggested they do a "Herbie Hancock and Friends" cruise in addition to the "John Mayer and Friends" one they did this year and plan on repeating. One can hope! Hello music lovers, Remember when you fell in love with music all over again? We do - it was Cayamo 2008. And now Sixthman invites you to join us again for Cayamo 2009! The experience of a lifetime awaits you on a new ship, going to new ports, with a new collaboration of artists. Let us guide you on this Journey Through Song, which will explore folk, blues, Americana, and the best singer-songwriters around. JOIN LYLE LOVETT, SHAWN COLVIN, JOHN HIATT, PATTY GRIFFIN, BUDDY MILLER AND MORE ARTISTS TO BE ANNOUNCED THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, as we set sail from Miami February 28th through March 7th. We'll be making stops in Samana, Tortola, St. Thomas and Great Stirrup Cay, a private island where you can relax on pristine beaches and swim in clear blue water. Sixthman is excited to bring you this experience aboard The Norwegian Dawn, your home for 7 days of the most memorable vacation of your life. We know you'll enjoy their brand of Freestyle Cruising with world class restaurants and lounges, three pools and the luxurious spa. Since you sailed with us on Cayamo in 2008, we've got you covered - you will receive pre-sale booking details in late April. We'll send an email with on-sale information, along with your date and time for booking. Prices start at only $999 per person, plus taxes and fees, based on double occupancy. To update your profile and Sixthman username, click this link. For more information about pre-sale details, visit www.cayamo.com . We hope you'll join us on this amazing Journey Through Song! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:21:59 -0400 (EDT) From: chuck eisenhardt Subject: Immortal lyrics njc then, there are these classic lyrical conundrums: "If I was a sculptor, but, then again, no...." "But in this ever-changing world in which we live in..." "Coast to coast, LA to Chicago" ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:06:37 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: RE: njc, Bobby Muller shines on the troops Bobby wrote: I'm proud to share my name with him...he did a lot of time working for Veterans back in the 80's working with Bruce Springsteen on the "Born In The USA" tour, or maybe it was even before that - I remember seeing pictures of the two of them together in Rolling Stone. And there may be LOTS of me, but there is only ONE Patti Parlette! ****** Thanks, Bobby, but surely there is only ONE of all/each of us, despite common names. What's in a name? There are probably a lot of Catherine McKays and Robert Murphys and Robert Mullers and, let's see, who else has a common name....oh yeah! Jimmy Stewart! Kate Bennet, there are probably a few.....there's even more than one Joni Mitchell...and Richard Flynn... And you know there may be more....Michael Flaherty....Debra Shea.... Yet We are (all) stardust, We are (all) golden particles of change...orbiting around the sun. Although.... LOL..... (Friday afternoon sillies).... (writing ooby-shooby, like Marianne, just another silly girl....) I have got a thing that's unique and new to prove I'll have the last laugh on you 'cause instead of one head I got two! Yes! I have an identical cousin, all the way. What a wild duet! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQTqKcojrVY&feature=related You can lose your mind.... When cousins, are two of a kind! Who among us aging children did not love the Patty Duke Show in the mid-to-late 60s? Bon weekend! Love, Patti P.S. Speaking of names, when I was in Germany many dim years ago, we found a "Becker Bier" Hall and my roommate Chris Becker went NUTS grabbing up every coaster and napkin and ashtray and stein she could. It must be neat to have something named after you. My son and his friends, in a h.s. prank, stole a sign from a pizza joint. "Paz's Pizza". When my son moved out, I sent it to Paz. _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:17:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Immortal lyrics njc - --- chuck eisenhardt wrote: > > "Coast to coast, LA to Chicago" > ha ha ha ha! I don't think I ever really paid attention to that before, or else I just never heard it right. It's a good thing that often the music is so catchy for these songs, because the lyrics alone... um... suck. I used to think I paid more attention to lyrics than I really do. We've had that discussion before about whether song lyrics can be poetry and I think now that, no matter how good some of the lyrics might be, they usually don't stand alone whatsoever. Can it be that hard to write good lyrics? Apparently. Catherine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:44:37 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (NJC) JoniFest Regina? > Have never been to Canada. Really, Bob?? Well, you must go!! Since the first time I went to Canada at the age of 14 (a trip to Niagara Falls with my mom, dad, and brothers), I've always felt a sense of freedom in Canada that I simply do not feel in the U.S. (and I was born and raised in the U.S., did my 10 years in the Air Force, all that). I feel it every time I go there. (Last trip was to Estevan in July 2007 to buy Joni postage stamps.) I would like to do a JoniFest in Canada. Not sure if I want to be the head cheerleader for it, but I would certainly commit to being involved in its planning. As for it being in Regina, it could be in Saskatoon, which would probably be more appropriate. I just like to say the word Regina. ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 03:18:52 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, How do you stop the Stop-Loss? WARNING: LONG AND RATHER SERIOUS Dear Joniamigos: I've been wanting to share a both sides now experience I had last Saturday night. I went to see "Stop-Loss", the new film by Kimberly Peirce. I don't usually "do" war movies because they get me too upset (I can't take it, I can't seem to believe it), but this one I had to see because I had a channeled aspiration: to pass out flyers that said, basically: "Support the troops. Bring them home. Stop the Stop-Loss", with some suggestions on how to do that. (I'm stepping up my activism lately. In the past, I have just attended events; nowadays I'm organizing them. Desperate times call for desperate measures.) I went w/ my new friend Amy, and we stood at the end of the dark hallway you enter just before you pick your seats. I don't like to get in anyone's face, so I just held out the flyers and people took them at their will. The movie (I'm trying not to be spoiler here) blew me away. I was holding back from crying -- without much success. (Have heart, will cry.) At least I held in the sobs. The ugliness of this war without end, the magnitude of it...the far-reaching consequences....160,000 of our troops coming home (if they ever do) with varying degrees of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder is just.....unfathomable. (Deep breath.) Trailer is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmePzcsegk4&feature=related As we left the theater, I had a hard time getting a good grip on my grief. I was apologizing to Amy for crying, and she said: "It's okay. I'm impressed that you are crying. But what a movie! To think, that those soldiers are the age of our students!" I stopped in my tracks and said: "Those soldiers are the age of my SONS!" I told her about my son's best friend since first grade -- how he came home from the war totally different, and how he wanted to beat up Michael one time because he doesn't like maple syrup touching his eggs, etc. Any little thing sets him off. They haven't spoken in two years now, which is so heartbreakingly sad. This young man, who has been like my third son (think Crosby Loggins, Kate) can't seem to make it with anyone, socially. There's this war reef around him. And then the magical stuff happened. People started coming up to me and Amy, *thanking* us for handing out the flyers. YES! I was still in tears, and one lady hugged me and introduced me to her husband and her two kids, saying how hard they are trying to keep them away from the recruiters. A few more people stopped by and we had a little peace powwow right there on the paved paradise parking lot. My long-winded point? Little actions -- baby steps -- like this just might bring us all together. We can't give up. Christ, ya know it ain't easy, but we have to keep fighting the good fight. As Ela Gandhi said when I saw her last year: "Yes, it is frustrating, but we must continue!" And if you need something more fiery that, hear David Crosby yelling out: "You've got to speak out, speak out against the MADNESS!" I am heartened to see that the movie is still playing in many theaters this weekend. Rolling Stone gave it 4 stars, I think, fwiw. If anyone plans to see it (which I heartily recommend, evidement), please email me and I will send you the PDF flyers. You will feel good having done a little something. That's a promise that I made! Love & Peace, Patti P., living with war in my heart, every day P.S. In the words of Iraq veteran and chairman of veterans' organization VoteVets.org Jon Soltz (he must be a friend of Bobby Muller's!): "Stop Loss has been one of the most painful Pentagon policies for those who have served in Iraq. While the film examines how the policy might affect one soldier, this issue affects thousands and thousands of those who serve our nation, in a very similar way. Longer and more frequent deployments have been linked to depression and even suicide among our troops and veterans. We must rally behind our troops, and end this destructive policy." And you know, there may be more. Thank you for the space. (Yikes. Now I'm embarrassed. Who do I think I am? The Kitty Welles of the peace movement? xoxo, Smurfy!) _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:32:31 -0400 From: David Eoll Subject: Re: njc, "History will not judge this kindly" > From: Patti Parlette > Subject: njc, "History will not judge this kindly" > > "History will not judge this kindly" And, amazingly, it was none other than former Attorney General John Ashcroft, who's as hard right-wing as they come, that said this. When John Ashcroft is the lone voice of reason in the room, you know things are going horribly wrong. > > Take action right now. Demand Rice resign: > http://www.truemajority.org/condi And you California residents should write to UC Berkeley, where John Yoo is currently a law professor, and demand that he be fired. As a former member of the White House Council's Office he wrote the memoranda enabling this abomination, this desecration of our Constitution, and our shredding of the Geneva Conventions. Those memoranda were the legal 'green-light' stating that Bush had the constitutional authority to do all this: torture, indefinite imprisonment without being charged with a crime, domestic spying, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Its all abhorrent, but the torture is a violation of the Geneva Conventions and, by the standards that we the Allies established at Nuremberg, it is a war crime. And, also by those standards, John Yoo is just as culpable for it as his superiors. We hung people in Germany and Japan for things like this after WWII. Should the California public university system, your university system, be employing war criminals on their faculty? If there isn't a petition for this already, please start one. Peace, David ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #28 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------