From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #9 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, March 27 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 009 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: who did that? [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: DJRD [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] NJC Re: sweet dreams are made of Joni [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: carly simon, njc ["Mark Scott" ] Juno Awards ["Barbara Stewart" ] Juno Awards ["Barbara Stewart" ] Re: Boston hotel question NJC [Mr Smurf Smurfy ] Comments on some recent Joni news [David Sapp ] njc - re: Nanci Griffith [we3kings ] pric 27-Mar-2008 ["Jeffw" ] Re: Wright reconsidered NJC [Doug ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:40:39 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: who did that? Rian, my guess is Olivia Newton-John. Bob NP: Counting Crows, "Come Around" (lovin' the new one...) - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:52:57 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: DJRD A brilliant slice of life portrait. And one of the tracks I couldn't fully appreciate in 1977 but certainly do now. Cotton Avenue, the title track, and Talk to Me all knocked my socks off right from the get-go. Time, maturity, and life experience has allowed the rest of it to sink in. Bob NP: Counting Crows, "Cowboys" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:01:03 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: sweet dreams are made of Joni Well, it was actually called "Jonifest '08" and unfortunately was cancelled as there were not enough people to sign up. We have had some amazing times, though - and plenty more in store. You can check out some of the past get-togethers here: http://jmdl.com/jonifest/ Bob NP: The Raconteurs, "Top Yourself" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 05:37:46 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: carly simon, njc Hmm...That's a good question, Rian! Some of my personal favorites are: Boys in the Trees Coming Around Again Hello Big Man Have You Seen Me Lately Letters Never Sent The Bedroom Tapes Her first 2 albums are very good too: Carly Simon Anticipation Enjoy exploring Carly! Mark in Seattle - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rian Afriadi" To: "jonipeople" Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: carly simon, njc > okay, i bought her "No Secret" last week, and I love it. > > which album should i take next? > > rian > ps. if you love joni, then you'll like jt, carole, carly, and > cohen... am i correct? > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:55:06 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: Juno Awards The official Juno site has a 'history' tab which leads one to 'past winners / nominees'. This is a searchable database. Just enter "Joni Mitchell" and your other search criteria ..... http://www.junoawards.ca/archive_past.php B from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:01:41 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: Juno Awards the WINS were: 2001 - Best Vocal Jazz Album (winner) Artist: Joni Mitchell Title: Both Sides Now 1976 - Female Vocalist of the Year (winner) Artist: Joni Mitchell Number of nominations 17 Number of wins 2 - ---- Incredible!!!!!! I would have sworn she'd won more than that!!!! B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:02:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Smurf Smurfy Subject: Re: Boston hotel question NJC Ali, dear, we should talk. My phone # is 617-308-6517. I have lost yours. Today is a chemo day so maybe later tonight, like after nine my time? XO, - --Bob On Mar 25, 2008, at 6:10 PM, Alison E wrote: Hey Boston jonipeople, can anyone offer suggestions for a good hotel near Boston University? I'm looking for something comfortable in a safe neighborhood that has a walkable feel if possible. I may be attending a conference there in early June. Any help would be greatly appreciated as Boston is one of the only cities in which I have not spent a lot of time! If only it were Topsfield....;-) hugs, ALison np: all things considered ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:06:51 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: Comments on some recent Joni news The news about Joni singing River at the Herbie Hancock show was really exciting... it must be at least 35 years since Joni has performed that song... I wonder how Herbie convinced her that it was no longer a role for an inginue... can't wait to hear it. The news about the new and expanded Fiddle and the Drum ballet was even more exciting... I wonder if Joni is going to compose some new tunes to be included in the new rendition... one can only hope... ... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:49:57 -0700 (PDT) From: we3kings Subject: njc - re: Nanci Griffith i think Nanci is great! "Where does the love go when it dies? Hey, I want you to know...love never dies... it is sheltered here very safe inside and it's left you with a friend out in the madness..." Her ex, Eric Taylor, put out one of my all-time favorite albums, "Shameless Love" in the early '80's. It was re-issued in 2004. Nanci sings on four of the songs. If you'd like to listen to a little, go here: www.bluerubymusic.com/listen.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:41:19 +0900 From: "Jeffw" Subject: pric 27-Mar-2008 [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of price27-Mar-2008.zip] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:52:26 -0400 From: Doug Subject: Re: Wright reconsidered NJC I agree completely David, and you said it far better than I ever could. When I first heard the audio clips, I didn't hear racism. I heard the plain unvarnished truth. I believe most white people are not aware of the existence of racism, because it doesn't affect them. His 9/11 remarks were right on too. A fair number of Americans including GWB, his cronies and maybe the people who voted for him, are blinded by arrogance. All in my humble opinion, of course! Doug (a white Canadian person) David Eoll wrote: > *sigh* I thought a long time before sending this. I stayed out of > the Obama/Wright thread for the most part, and now that the flames > have died down, why on earth would I want to stoke that up again? > Honestly, I'm not trolling here. Something just wasn't sitting right > with me about it. And I don't feel like biting my tongue about it. > Most of the Obama/Wright argument seemed to revolve around whether > Obama had sufficiently condemned Wright's racist rhetoric. But, it > always seemed to be a given that Wright's rhetoric was racist. So I > watched some of it. I know of three clips that seemed to have gotten > the most airplay on YouTube. There's the God Damn America one, the > 9/11 America's chickens coming home to roost one, and the rich white > men screed. I'm assuming the last one was the one that people are > talking about being racist. > > Funny thing though, I wasn't really offended. Like, at all. I am a > white man, not rich but not poor either, but definitely in the white > man caste, or "mold", that Wright is talking about. So, since his > remarks are, I assume, to be considered racist towards whites, and > since I am a white myself, shouldn't I feel offended? The thing I > found is that I agree with a lot of what he said. Not all of it, the > HIV conspiracy stuff I think is out there, and there was one point he > made in the "rich white men" spiel that I thought was border-line > sexist, but even that I'm not sure of. (I'll elaborate below) But, I > didn't find any of it racist, at least not by my definition of the > word. So, am I just a self-hating white, suffering from liberal > guilt, or does Wright have a point? Is America ruled by rich white men? > > Well, let's see. > > There have been five, count 'em five, black senators in US history. > And two of those served during Reconstruction. The other 3 were all > elected since 1967, never more than one serving at any given time. So > since Reconstruction, the US Senate has either been 100% or 99% white, > depending on the year. And of course, there has never been a black > president. And there have only been 3 black governors, all three in > the past quarter century, two took office only in the past couple of > years, and one of those was not even elected to the office (Gov. > Spitzer's recent replacement in NY). > > Since 1922 there have been 35 women elected to the US Senate. 20 of > those were elected since 1987, 16 of those are currently serving. > Before the 1980s there were never more than 2 women serving at a time, > and usually 1 or 0. So the Senate was usually between 98% and 100% > male. It is only 84% male now, so there has been a huge improvement > in the past 2 decades. But considering that men make up slightly less > than half the population, they're still clearly overrepresented in the > Senate. And, again, there has never been a female president. > > To put these numbers into perspective, there have been 1,904 Senators > in US history, only 35 of them women, and only 5 of them black. And, > or course, there have been no black or female presidents out of 43 total. > > On to wealth. In 2003, there were 40 Senators that were millionaires. > 90 Senators had wealth (defined as assets minus debt) over $100,000. > That puts 90% of Senators in the top 40% of wealthiest Americans, and > 40% of Senators in the top 5% of the wealthiest Americans. About half > of US Presidents were from the top 3% of the wealthiest Americans, and > more than a quarter of US Presidents (including the current one) were > from the top 1% of wealthiest Americans. > > And since it can be argued, and I'd be happy to argue it, that the > course of this country is controlled just as much, if not more, by > large corporations, as by our elected government, lets look at the > race and gender makeup of America's board rooms and executive suites. > After all, they write a lot of the more influential legislation > themselves, and then bribe ... er, I mean lobby the Congress to pass > it. In the Fortune 500, only 8% of board members are black. Better > than in government, interestingly, but still not representative of the > population as a whole. Only about 10% of board members are female. > The numbers are worse in the executive suite. About 97% of the senior > executives in the Fortune 1000 are white, and about 95% are male. > And, is it necessary to point out that ALL of these people are rich? > > Rich. White. Men. > > So, when Rev. Wright states that the country is ruled by rich, white > men, and you need to be from that "mold" in order to advance beyond a > certain level, he's just stating a fact. He jumps the tracks a bit by > claiming that Hillary has never had to work twice as hard for the same > reward, as Obama has had to. That's just flat out wrong. Clearly, > women have been marginalized pretty much to the same extent as racial > minorities, at least at the top levels of government and business. > One may argue that they have been marginalized to an even greater > extent because they make up a majority, not a minority, of the > population. I don't know if I'd call that sexist, or just a denial of > sexism, but it is ignorant to say that Hillary belongs to the same > privileged class that white men do. > > But, I just don't hear racism. I don't hear hatred of whites either. > I hear anger and frustration. And I hear a stubborn refusal to sweep > America's ugly stain of racism under the carpet. I don't consider > calling attention to racism where one sees it to be racism, and that's > all I hear Rev. Wright doing. A country that has in 232 years never > elected a black president and has only elected 5 black Senators out of > 1904 is racist. > > I should also at this point define what I mean by racism. I was > steeped in western Massachusetts feminism and racial studies when I > was at UMass in the late 80s. And in such schools of thought, racism > and sexism are defined a bit more narrowly than how most people might > define those terms. Racism isn't just about discrimination or > intolerance based on race. Its about power, and how those with power > (whites in this case) oppress those without it (blacks). Likewise, > with sexism. So, clearly under those definitions, it is simply not > possible for a black person to be guilty of racism, nor for a woman to > be guilty of sexism. > > Now, I tended to dismiss alot of that as overly dogmatic when I was > younger, and got into some heated discussions over it. But, I have > come to see the point of it. Consider the case of an abusive > husband. He beats his wife just like he's beaten other women in his > life because he hates women. Now, his wife may come to hate men > because of her husband's treatment of her. But, does that make her a > sexist? Not in my book. She hates men because a man has beaten the > crap out of her on a weekly basis. He just hates women because he's > an asshole. Well, more to the point because he's sexist. Neither of > their hatred is liable to lead to the healing that they both obviously > need, but her anger is at least understandable, justified even. Dare > I say righteous? Likewise, after 400 years of slavery, terrorism, > KKK, lynchings, Jim Crow, and continued discrimination, I think black > people in America have earned the right to be pissed off. Is being > angry the way out out of this mess we're in? Maybe, maybe not. I > don't know whether Martin's way or Malcolm's way leads to racial > justice. And I don't think Wright is all the way one way or the > other. I know I prefer Martin's way, but I also know that Martin, > Malcolm, and Wright, and Obama have experienced the butt end of racism > as neither I nor any other white person in America ever will. Except > for maybe John Howard Griffin. > > I understand that not everyone buys into that definition of racism and > sexism. Even the dictionary has multiple definitions, some that lean > more toward what I described, and some that lean more toward the > broader definition that probably most people adhere to. But, > regardless of what we call it, my point is that there is something > distinctly different between the discrimination that whites have used > to claim superiority over blacks, and the prejudice that many black > people have adopted because they're sick and tired of being treated > like second class citizens and would just rather not have much to do > with white people because of that. > > I would love nothing better than to close the book on racism. But, I > don't think we can just click our heels and magically transform > ourselves into a post-racial society. America needs serious therapy > to solve its racial problems. That starts with stopping the denial > that we still have a racial divide in this country. And pointing that > fact out does not constitute racism. > > I realize that many of the people on this list may disagree strongly > with some or all of the above. I'm really not trying to change any of > y'all's minds. People I think have decided how they feel about this > issue, but its always good in my book to see a new perspective that > you may not have considered. I really just had some against-the-grain > opinions that were gnawing at me and I wanted to get them off my > chest. I really wasn't intending to rekindle the thread, but, of > course, that's kind of out of my hands now. So fire away, if you like. > > Respectfully, > David Eoll ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #9 *************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------