From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #6 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, March 25 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 006 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- a new short feature film njc ["Vince Lavieri" ] Re: Happy Easter from Bo ["Anita Tedder" ] Earth Hour [Mark-Leon Thorne ] SV: Earth Hour ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: SV: Earth Hour [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: SV: Earth Hour [Catherine McKay ] Re : Earth Hour, NJC [rian afriadi ] Listening to Shine ["William Elliott" ] Re: Shine Listening [rian afriadi ] njc, 4,000 Americans dead in Iraq [Patti Parlette ] njc, tripping at the White House Easter egg roll [Patti Parlette ] Joni mention [Dave Blackburn ] Re: njc, 4,000 Americans dead in Iraq [J Kendel Johnson ] Joni Mitchell thong [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Obama and Lieberman, njc [Marianne Rizzo ] Re: Joni Mitchell thong [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] njc, Obama's Mama taught him the deeper meaning [Patti Parlette ] Re: njc, 4,000 Americans dead in Iraq ["Randy Remote" ] RE: Obama and Lieberman, njc [Patti Parlette ] Re: Joni Mitchell thong ["Donna Binkley" ] njc please take time to listen ["Vince Lavieri" ] Re: Joni Mitchell thong [Victor Johnson ] Re: Joni Mitchell thong NJC [Bob Muller ] obama and lieberman, njc [Marianne Rizzo ] njc, Ach du Lieberman! [Patti Parlette ] njc, Ach du Lieberman! [Patti Parlette ] Re: Joni Mitchell thong [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Shine Listening & a Trip to Joni's Chelsea "Home" [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Wright reconsidered NJC [David Eoll ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:55:16 -0400 From: "Vince Lavieri" Subject: a new short feature film njc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF7Y (note that in the ceremony scene, military backup is provided by sharpshooters comedian Sinbad and assassin for hire Sheryl Crow as GI Hillary lands in a war zone under enemy fire accompanied by Robin, here played by minor Chelsea Clinton - some feel it is impausible for a mother to take a child into active fire station in a war zone but that is small stuff compared to the bogus claim that the First Lady was ever under active fire in 1996, something we'd all remember ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:26:45 -0000 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: Re: Happy Easter from Bo Bo, you wrote: "Hello to everyone! I've been missing for a few months...from everyone..myself included...missing in these creepy reflections of past actions and the prices paid....you know what I mean...the "what ifs"." Bo, sounds like you've been having a really hard time. Do take good care. You also mention "And I've been thinking...I really don't want to meet Joni...as overwhelming a moment as that may be...it would only be a snap-shot." I know I've shared this before here, but what my experience on the two occasions I met her was how down to earth and ordinary she was. I know lots of people on the list have met Joni and would probably concur. I was quite afraid I'd fall down with feeling overwhelmed the first time, but she had a really awful cold and we simply talked about cold remedies. There was just me, my partner Steph, Larry Klein and Joni outside the Hotel Warwick in Paris and we chatted for ages. I imagined I might fall over trying to explain how hearing 'I think I understand' was the most important moment in my life, but I ended up telling her about The Importance of Vick Vapour Rub! She even offered to take a photo of me, Steph and Larry and I said No, it was all fine. I could have had a photo taken BY Joni - and I said no, it was just lovely to chat and it looked like she needed an early night! You also say "I think about Joni and what she must feel as she works through the events in her life using her extraordinary and multiple talents." There's not too ways about how many of us here on the list have been likewise supported and helped in our darkest moments by Joni's 'extraordinary and multiple talents' but I have also helped by meeting her ordinariness. I wonder if that's what also sustains her - her ability to be ordinary as well as a mystic. Perhaps a requirement for mysticism is to be down to earth. You mention Tibet - well, the Dalai Lama has such a quality of the down to earth and ordinary, I feel. He really does have a wonderful, deep laugh (when things aren't as grim as they are at the moment). So, in my darkest times when I have felt: "it's being unable to really climb up the ladder from sandy, gritty darkness to take a wee look into the light, only to read such crap, that keeps me retreating to the safety under the covers, safe from the sunlight and waiting for the night...the safety of darkness...know what I mean?" Didn't someone write 'People will tell you where they've gone, they'll tell you where to go but till you get there yourself, you never really know." So I know this may only only work for me and I know we all have to find our own ways back from darkness, but these days I try to do the most simple and ordinary things I can and things that bring back to here and now. In my younger days, I'd play more Joni (and Dory Previn at that time), drink or do some drug or indulge in other really dangerous and risky behaviours. What seems to work for me these days are gardening, cooking and cleaning. Several folk have helped me with that - and a big help to me was ordinary, down to earth Joni with her snotty cold! Wishing you, Bo, and all on this list Peace, Anita x ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:54:28 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Earth Hour Hello people. Just a reminder that Earth Hour is on again next Friday for the second year. Sorry for the no NJC tag but I'm sure this is a cause Joni would support. It is an initiative by the Australian organisation, World Wildlife Fund. The idea is that everybody (including businesses) switch off lights and non essential electricals for one hour to save on greenhouse gases. It started last year in Sydney with 2.2 million people and 2,100 businesses turning off the lights for one hour at 8PM which is the equivalent of shutting down 48,616 cars. It was such a success that other cities are joining in this year. The cities involved are: Aalborg, Aarhus, Adelaide, Atlanta, Bankok, Brisbane, Canberra, Chicago, Christchurch, Copenhagen, Dublin, Manila, Melbourne, Montreal, Odense, Ottawa, Perth, Phoenix, San Francisco, Suva and Lautoka, Sydney, Tel Aviv, Toronto and Vancouver. http://www.earthhour.org Shine on... Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:38:03 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Earth Hour Hi Mark, thanks for the link! I see from it that the time for Copenhagen is 8pm next Saturday (29th). I'm in even though I don't live in Copenhagen but close enough. How about you, Bene? And Odd? Of course this will mean that the jmdl will be very quiet for a hour at different times next weekend:-) Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Mark-Leon Thorne Skickat: den 24 mars 2008 10:54 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Earth Hour Hello people. Just a reminder that Earth Hour is on again next Friday for the second year. Sorry for the no NJC tag but I'm sure this is a cause Joni would support. It is an initiative by the Australian organisation, World Wildlife Fund. The idea is that everybody (including businesses) switch off lights and non essential electricals for one hour to save on greenhouse gases. It started last year in Sydney with 2.2 million people and 2,100 businesses turning off the lights for one hour at 8PM which is the equivalent of shutting down 48,616 cars. It was such a success that other cities are joining in this year. The cities involved are: Aalborg, Aarhus, Adelaide, Atlanta, Bankok, Brisbane, Canberra, Chicago, Christchurch, Copenhagen, Dublin, Manila, Melbourne, Montreal, Odense, Ottawa, Perth, Phoenix, San Francisco, Suva and Lautoka, Sydney, Tel Aviv, Toronto and Vancouver. http://www.earthhour.org Shine on... Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:46:15 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: SV: Earth Hour Oops. Yes, I meant to say, Saturday at 8PM. You don't have to be in one of those cities to participate. Check out the website. I remember last year how extraordinary it was to see the whole city in darkness. I'm just glad some airplane didn't fly into the Sydney Harbour Bridge. It was amazing to see the skyscrapers go dark too. I guess they would be shamed if they left their lights on for the world to see. The Sydney Opera House in darkness was incredible too. Usually for special events, they throw more lights on it. Go on, Oddmund, dim the way for Oslo. I noticed, the UK is not involved. What's with that? Mark in Sydney On 24/03/2008, at 9:38 PM, Marion Leffler wrote: > Hi Mark, > thanks for the link! I see from it that the time for Copenhagen is > 8pm next > Saturday (29th). I'm in even though I don't live in Copenhagen but > close > enough. How about you, Bene? And Odd? > Of course this will mean that the jmdl will be very quiet for a > hour at > different times next weekend:-) > > Marion > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr > Mark-Leon > Thorne > Skickat: den 24 mars 2008 10:54 > Till: joni@smoe.org > Dmne: Earth Hour > > Hello people. Just a reminder that Earth Hour is on again next Friday > for the second year. Sorry for the no NJC tag but I'm sure this is a > cause Joni would support. It is an initiative by the Australian > organisation, World Wildlife Fund. The idea is that everybody > (including businesses) switch off lights and non essential > electricals for one hour to save on greenhouse gases. It started last > year in Sydney with 2.2 million people and 2,100 businesses turning > off the lights for one hour at 8PM which is the equivalent of > shutting down 48,616 cars. It was such a success that other cities > are joining in this year. > The cities involved are: Aalborg, Aarhus, Adelaide, Atlanta, Bankok, > Brisbane, Canberra, Chicago, Christchurch, Copenhagen, Dublin, > Manila, Melbourne, Montreal, Odense, Ottawa, Perth, Phoenix, San > Francisco, Suva and Lautoka, Sydney, Tel Aviv, Toronto and Vancouver. > > http://www.earthhour.org > > Shine on... > > Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:02:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: SV: Earth Hour - --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > I remember > last year how extraordinary it was to see the whole > city in darkness. > I'm just glad some airplane didn't fly into the > Sydney Harbour > Bridge. It was amazing to see the skyscrapers go > dark too. I guess > they would be shamed if they left their lights on > for the world to > see. I'm looking forward to it. I live downtown and there are always lights on all around. I'm pretty sure that most of the office buildings in Toronto are participating. I know mine is. I hope it's a clear night because I want to sit out on my balcony and see stars in the sky. Catherine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 05:19:49 -0700 (PDT) From: rian afriadi Subject: Re : Earth Hour, NJC Jakarta may not participate in Earth Hour program, but we have another version of earth hour. For more than 3 days a year, we don't use any electricity!!! Are Indonesians that eco-friendly?? Hmmm... not really. It was electricity blackout. The government fails to provide us enough electricity. And it was a disaster. Jakarta is a huge city inhabited by more than 15 millions people. But... Last year, i had one of those stupid blackout while I was studying for my advanced accounting final exam. ("DAAAAAMN!!!!") Rian who hates accounting but must face it since he works for the taxation authority. NP- Carly Simon - You're So Vain ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 05:25:12 -0700 From: "William Elliott" Subject: Listening to Shine When Shine was released last fall, I was -- after listening to it a few times -- quite disappointed. But, however much I may try, JM is, to me, something like a siren and I cannot ignore her. Over the last few months, I've played Shine in the car, to and from work, and I've really come to love it. My only complaints are: BYT seems an unnecessary filler and the half-baked lyrics of STRONG. My transformation illustrates how JM's music requires repeated listening over time to form a full appreciation. In 1981, when I first listened to Hejira, I couldn't get past Coyote and Ameila because everything else on the album sounded, to my uninitiaited, adolescent ears, similar and unformed. But, after a few concentrated listenings, it struck me like a revelation and, twenty seven years later, I'm still listening to it. Shine on the pioneers... Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential.

_______________________________________________________________
Get the Free email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com
Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator – Much More! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 05:33:12 -0700 (PDT) From: rian afriadi Subject: Re: Shine Listening i used to hate "Hana", but since the day i created JoniQuiz : Shine, i love the song, and play it at least once a day at the office. but these days i'm digesting Carly Simon's No Secret, which is great. rian np carly - we have no secret ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:07:17 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, 4,000 Americans dead in Iraq NPIMH: Neil Young singing at the end of Let's Impeach the President: "Thank GOD! Thank GOD!" I'm singing that to Gene and Vince for posting about this. "It gets so lonely, when you're walking, and the streets are full of strangers." I heard that we hit 4,000 last night and I wanted to write to the list but I was too emotional and decided to just shut this damn computer and TV off and just pray and be peaceful and shine in the dazzling darkness that restores us in deep sleep to face a new day, a new way to carry on in the morning. Last Wednesday, on the fifth anniversary of the beginning of the Iraq war, I, for the first time, *organized* a vigil on campus. MoveOn.org sent me all these rules and regulations (CSNY TIC: who needs them?) and it made me a little nervous. But I went ahead anyway, and it was wonderful (more on that later), despite the heavy rain and a low-turnout. (Where have all the flowers gone?) Anyway, in anticipation of the parties for the press, I had to study the facts. Look at these facts and figures scrawled in the local paper: "In neighboring Storrs, a number of protesters also gathered close to and within the University of Connecticut campus Wednesday. "It's a big, big anniversary -- five years of this disaster," said Patti Parlette, a UConn employee who organized a protest on campus because she didn't know of any others. Parlette said 3,990 U.S. troops have died in the war, while 29,395 have been wounded and 2,100 attempted suicide. She said the war has caused 82,000 to 89,000 Iraqi casualties and 4.5 million Iraqi refugees. Parlette said she was disappointed more protesters didn't turn out after surveying the crowd of about 25. "Everyone should care about this, every American.", added fellow protester and UConn employee Amy Deflumere." *** Right on, Amy. Right on Vince and Gene and the rest of you. I cannot comprehend how people do not rise up and say: STOP IT! Stop the madness! What the F#$K? How many more? And for how long? ONE HUNDRED YEARS? (Oh, my head is in my hands.) The media, of course, didn't make a big deal of the anniversary, but the next day there was a little graph in the paper that showed that ONLY 28% of Americans polled know *approximately* how many U.S troop deaths there have been in Iraq (down from 55% in 2004). For me, this election has always been: "It's the WAR, stupid!" But now more Americans are getting into it because the economy is tanking. Well, DUH! "It's the WAR'S effect on the ECONOMY, stupid!" (Not you guys, of course, I mean everyone else.) A new book out estimates that the cost of the war will be THREE TRILLION. Bush said: "The successes we are seeing in Iraq are undeniable.....The battle in Iraq is noble. It is necessary and it is just, and with your courage the battle in Iraq will end in victory." How can that sorry excuse for a human being sleep at night? And Cheney says we have been making "phenomenal progress" as he spends the fifth anniversary of the war fishing off the Sultan of Oman's boat. And when asked about popular opinion about the war, he replies: "So?" Deep breath. Thanks for the space. I have to get to work now. Put on the day. Teach the children well and hope that their fathers' hell will quickly go by. Wage peace. Love, Patti P., who's living with war in her heart every day Feel any safer?????? 4000 Americans dead over a dick-waving or pissing contest. Bin Laden must be laughing his ass off. 4000 dead, many more wounded, hated around the world, dollar is falling and the economy is in the shitter. But we're winning right? And oh yeah! as Dylan said "God is on our side." I'm not against wars----just the Iraq war. gene - - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vince Lavieri" To: "Joni people!" Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 7:40 PM Subject: 4,000 Americans dead in Iraq > It has just been announced that the death toll has reached 4,000 Americans > > and how many tens or hundreds of thousands of Iraqis > > and for no reason on earth other than than philosophic demands of right > wingers > > Vince ************** _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:01:22 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, tripping at the White House Easter egg roll Help me! I'm tripping! Someone snuck into my house in the dazzling darkness last night and slipped some orange sunshine into my orange juice. I *know* I bought the low-acid variety, but I'm tripping. I just saw George and Laura and Jenna and La Grande Dame Bush on CNN, hosting the annual Easter Egg Roll. George was hugging the Easter Bunny. Laughing it all away, chortling and guffawing with his shoulders heaving up and down, looking more like Alfred E. Neuman than ever. And who are all those plasticene people, with looking-glass ties, shaking his hand and smiling? Do you think this can be real? Shiny happy American children rolling Easter eggs on the White House lawn. And the children in Iraq? They see blood running down the streets. And the millions of the lost and lonely one, who call out to be released.... I'd like to see some HEADS rolling on the White House lawn. (Not literally, of course.) Love, Patti P., all riled up this morning NPIMH: Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Strawberry Fields. Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about. Strawberry Fields forever. Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see. It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out. It doesn't matter much to me. Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Strawberry Fields. Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about. Strawberry Fields forever. No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low. That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right. That is I think it's not too bad. Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Strawberry Fields. Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about. Strawberry Fields forever. Always no sometimes think it's me, but you know I know when it's a dream. I think I know I mean "Yes," but it's all wrong. That is I think I disagree. Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Strawberry Fields. Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about. Strawberry Fields forever. Strawberry Fields forever. Strawberry Fields forever. _________________________________________________________________ Test your Star IQ http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_HMTAGMAR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:03:21 -0000 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: Joni as a mystic I wrote: "There's not too ways about how many of us here on the list have been likewise supported and helped in our darkest moments by Joni's 'extraordinary and multiple talents' but I have also helped by meeting her ordinariness. I wonder if that's what also sustains her - her ability to be ordinary as well as a mystic." Well, I was writing all this about being down to earth and ordinary this morning in a very well meaning but rather intense way and so I go downstairs for a cup of coffee with my dear beloved Steph. There I am - all heart felt, feeling touched and moved and I talk AT Steph (who has just come in from the garden and is making the coffee) and I say 'What do you think of Joni? Do you reckon she is a mystic?' She carries on putting the coffee in the pot and goes to get some milk and, as she comes back, says 'Mmmmmm. Now, tell me again. What was all that about Joni and her lipstick?' Lol and lol again! There I am looking for my down to earth....I live with her! Anita ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:11:28 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Joni mention We've been engrossed in watching the entire West Wing series on DVD and in Season Five the deputy head of NASA is trying to get the White House deputy communication director Josh Lyman excited about putting a man on Mars. She has him look through a telescope at the Orion nebula and she tells him "this is where stars are born. I guess Joni Mitchell was right; we really are stardust..." Dave > And there's also a Joni mention in "Into The Wild" which I watched > last night - the scene in Slab City when Raney encourages Alex/ > Chris to go talk to the young singer/songwriter across the lot, > referring to her as "our Joni Mitchell". > > Always fun to see/hear a Joni reference when it's not expected. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:21:30 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: njc, 4,000 Americans dead in Iraq According to FBI stats, approximately 100,000 Americans have died within the U.S. since 9-11in our ongoing war against each other -- an average of 47 per day. I can't understand why we don't track that. How come that daily/monthly/annual tally is not reported on the news every night? Where's the outrage, the protests, the urgent search for solutions to violence within our own country? J in Dallas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:29:15 -0700 From: Russell Bowden Subject: Total Shine listenings. Gang, Good question...I received Shine for Christmas and have listened to it app 5 times...Like I said earlier...I've heard most of this before and it was much better the first time(s) around. Love, Russ _________________________________________________________________ Test your Star IQ http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_HMTAGMAR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:44:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Joni Mitchell thong I bet you never thought you'd see "thong" and "Joni Mitchell" in the same phrase, no? Anyway, I was browsing through cafepress.com for Joni buttons/stickers that maybe I will buy in the future (particularly the "what would Joni do?" one) and came across the "Both Sides Now" thong: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/search/design_prod2.aspx?q=joni+mitchell&rn=&ru=&p=smallhands.208968601&pNo=208968601&id=22651972&fpt=&opt=&c=0&pg= Who would have thought such a thing even existed? Granted they have this "Both Sides Now" theme on regular ol' things like shirts, bags, and so forth. -M - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:57:14 -0400 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: Obama and Lieberman, njc WHAT? (I am coming in late here.) Obama supported the lieberman? When, I wonder, did he speak to re-elect leiberman? makes me wonder Marianne >From what I can gather, when you are new in the Senate, you>are assigned a mentor to show you the ropes, but Lieberman>claimed Obama chose him. Obama has also spoken at a rally>to re-elect the weasel.>RR _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ realtime_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:14:58 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell thong Rad and fad and in-betweens, and feeling sexy in my jeans And sometimes worn by even Queens I've looked at thongs that way But now I'm going to take them back They hurt my crotch, they ride my crack and left some unappealing tracks I'm sending them away I've looked at thongs from both sides now From "Ooooo" to "Ewwwww", and still somehow, It's thong's illusion I recall I really can't wear thongs at all Bob NP: Damien Rice, "Accidental Babies" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:24:31 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Obama's Mama taught him the deeper meaning A friend of spirit just sent me this article on Obama's mother. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/us/politics/14obama.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1& emc=eta1 Very interesting woman. Joni-like free spirit! I know that she was the kindest, most generous spirit I have ever known, and that what is best in me I owe to her. How sad that she is not here on earth to see the fruits of her love's labour. Peace, Patti P.S. One of our professors just popped in to say that Obama's speech last week was "the best speech I have ever heard in my life. So smart!" (He's 54.) This person is not given to hyperbole. Then I complained that only 28% of Americans know approximately how many soldiers have been killed, and he nodded and said: "THAT is why McCain could win. Any why Bush won twice." Reality bites! _________________________________________________________________ How well do you know your celebrity gossip? http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:23:56 -0400 From: djp Subject: Re: Joni mention Odd how they didn't use a reference to the conquered moon. djp Dave Blackburn wrote: > We've been engrossed in watching the entire West Wing series on DVD and > in Season Five the deputy head of NASA is trying to get the White House > deputy communication director Josh Lyman excited about putting a man on > Mars. She has him look through a telescope at the Orion nebula and she > tells him "this is where stars are born. I guess Joni Mitchell was > right; we really are stardust..." > > Dave > >> And there's also a Joni mention in "Into The Wild" which I watched >> last night - the scene in Slab City when Raney encourages Alex/Chris >> to go talk to the young singer/songwriter across the lot, referring to >> her as "our Joni Mitchell". >> >> Always fun to see/hear a Joni reference when it's not expected. >> >> Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:44:53 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: njc, 4,000 Americans dead in Iraq From: "J Kendel Johnson" > According to FBI stats, approximately 100,000 Americans have died within > the U.S. since 9-11in our ongoing war against each other -- an average of > 47 per day. > I can't understand why we don't track that. How come that > daily/monthly/annual tally is not reported on the news every night? > Where's the outrage, the protests, the urgent search for solutions to > violence within our own country? > J in Dallas Why isn't it publicized? I think it would raise the question of class inequity, which the corporate media, driven by advertising, pushing the dream of spend, borrow, spend, more, more, more, is not eager to talk about. To expand on your point, a 'meter' like the one at the Beverly Hills Hard Rock Cafe that shows the rising human population (rolling over like an odometer in fast motion) and the declining rain forest, in acres (moving in the opposite direction) would be a good reality check, too. Unfortunately, the point of the evening news is not to educate and inform, it's to sell cars, Happy Face Beer, and war. Urp. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:24:51 +0000 From: "Steve T." Subject: Re: Man From Mars Nice to hear this song mentioned. Was always struck by the deep sense of loss Joni portays in it. Oh and the ref. to an earlier song is nice: 'And the wiring in the walls' Any guesses? Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:04:15 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: RE: Obama and Lieberman, njc Marianne came out to wonder: WHAT? (I am coming in late here.) Obama supported the lieberman? When, I wonder, did he speak to re-elect leiberman? makes me wonder *** after RR wrote this: >From what I can gather, when you are new in the Senate, you >are assigned a mentor to show you the ropes, but Lieberman >claimed Obama chose him. Obama has also spoken at a rally >to re-elect the weasel. *** Now me, the chirp for Lamont and Obama. Ned Lamont ran against Lieberman in the Fall 06 senate race, and I was a "Ned Head". Oh my my, *don't* get me going on Lieberman! (Ha ha....I can just see some of you old-timers sitting back laughing right now: "Out of the fire like Catholic saints comes Parlette and her DEEP complaint about Joe Lieberman -- thar she blows!") First, don't believe a word Lieberman says. He will say or do anything to get elected. RR, I cringed when you first brought this up. "What's too painful to remember, we simply chose to forget." I was like a little kid with my fingers in my ears screaming: "I don't HEAR you! SHUT UP, YOU BIG DOO-DOO HEAD!" (Just kidding. You know I love you.) But then I took my fingers out of my ears and did a little digging/remembering. Yes, Obama supported Lieberman in the Spring of 06, until Lamont soundly defeated Creeperman in the August 06 Democratic primary (that so many of us in CT gave so much time and heart and soul to! Damn him!). Then Creeperman decided that HE knows what is best for our country and ran as an IND, causing us Lamont people to work many more long hours into the cold dark nights and eventually -- unbelievably -- lose to him on Joni's b/day 2006. ANYWAY, back to Obama, he came out for Lamont in October. (Now, haven't you ever made a new friend that you thought was pretty cool at first, and then later learned s/he was a creep? Or not what s/he appears to be? "Smiling faces, they lie. They don't tell the truth." A wolf in sheep's clothing? I submit that that is what happened here. Maybe Traitor Joe was nice to Barack when he was new, and little Barack looked up to him as a senior Senator.) "Ned Lamont has waged an impressive grass roots campaign to give the people of Connecticut a choice in the November Senate election," Obama wrote. "Please join me in supporting Ned Lamont with your hard work on-the-ground in these closing weeks of the campaign..... Obama has also given $5,000 to Lamont's campaign through a political committee. "Ned Lamont and I share a commitment to bringing our troops home safely from Iraq, to achieving energy independence, to helping all our citizens realize the American dream, and to empowering the American people to reclaim their government," Obama wrote. source: http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2006/10/26/lamont_gets_lift_from_obama_lieberman_campaigns_with_landrieu/ Pour moi, Lieberman ranks right up there w/ Bush and Cheney. The unholy trinity of warmongers. The Evil Father Cheney, The Son of a Bush, and the Unholy Ghost, who transforms and recreates himself in any old way that suits him. He said that no one could dissuade him from running except for a "higher authority." Sounds like someone else we know, doesn't it? Just some inchoate thoughts written w/ about 20 interruptions! ; ) Love, Patti P. P.S. If you want more on Lieberman, babies I got it! _________________________________________________________________ Test your Star IQ http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_HMTAGMAR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:15:00 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell thong Well I had to have one and that's that! It'll be shipped in 7-9 days - but don't expect any pictures in the profile section of jmdl.com! db >>> Monika Bogdanowicz 3/24/2008 1:44 PM >>> I bet you never thought you'd see "thong" and "Joni Mitchell" in the same phrase, no? Anyway, I was browsing through cafepress.com for Joni buttons/stickers that maybe I will buy in the future (particularly the "what would Joni do?" one) and came across the "Both Sides Now" thong: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/search/design_prod2.aspx?q=joni+mitchell&rn=&ru=&p=smallhands.208968601&pNo=208968601&id=22651972&fpt=&opt=&c=0&pg= Who would have thought such a thing even existed? Granted they have this "Both Sides Now" theme on regular ol' things like shirts, bags, and so forth. -M - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. - ------------------- Text.htm follows -------------------

Well I had to have one and that's that!  It'll be shipped in 7-9 = days - but don't expect any pictures in the profile section of jmdl.com!&nb= sp;
 
db

>>> Monika Bogdanowicz <motitan75@yahoo.com> = 3/24/2008 1:44 PM >>>
  I bet you never thought you'd see = "thong" and "Joni Mitchell" in the same phrase, no?  Anyway, I was = browsing through cafepress.com for Joni buttons/stickers that maybe I will = buy in the future (particularly the "what would Joni do?" one) and came = across the "Both Sides Now" thong:
  http://www.cafepress.com/cp/search/design_p= rod2.aspx?q=3Djoni+mitchell&rn=3D&ru=3D&p=3Dsmallhands.20896860= 1&pNo=3D208968601&id=3D22651972&fpt=3D&opt=3D&c=3D0&= ;pg=3D
  Who would have thought such a thing even existed? = ; Granted they have this "Both Sides Now" theme on regular ol' things like = shirts, bags, and so forth. 
  -M

   &n= bsp;  
---------------------------------
Looking for last = minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:22:02 -0400 From: "Vince Lavieri" Subject: njc please take time to listen All of the fuss, all of the denunciations of Jeremiah Wright - I finally got the whole sermon that we have only heard parts of, the explosion sound bytes. Today - on a Miami Dolphins football forum - I finally found the link to the whole sermon. http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/21/t ... 11-sermon/ http://essence.typepad.com/news/2008/03 ... rev-j.html Please click the sermon on there and listen to all of it. This is a pastor who faithfully serves Jesus Christ. Those who do not believe it, take the chance and listen to the whole sermon. May God forgive all who were so quick to villify and attack this good pastor. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:50:03 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell thong Would you wear it on a boat with a goat, Would you wear it in a box with a fox? Would you wear it in a pond with a duck? Victor ; On Mar 24, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Donna Binkley wrote: > Well I had to have one and that's that! It'll be shipped in 7-9 > days - > but don't expect any pictures in the profile section of jmdl.com! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:56:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell thong NJC I believe in this particular case the fox will wear it on her box. Bob NP: Sweet Harmony, "Woodstock" ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:10:48 -0400 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: obama and lieberman, njc Patti, you impress me with your reconciliation synopsis: >(Now, haven't you ever made a new friend that you thought was pretty cool at first, >and then later learned s/he was a creep? >Or not what s/he appears to be? >"Smiling faces, they lie. They don't tell the truth." >A wolf in sheep's clothing? I submit that that is what >happened here. >Maybe Traitor Joe was nice to Barack when he was new, and little Barack looked up to him as a senior Senator.) I want to believe it. It's hard to believe that obama would tolerate lieberman. In a sense we thought that lieberman was okay at first, right? . . . I mean, "my guy, Al" put him on the ticket with him, right? Well, Neither candidate (Obama nor Clinton) is perfect. . . each are wrapped up in politics and the politic is imperfect. Who would be best for the country? I still do not know. but what I do believe is, whom ever wins, we have got to get behind them and support them with all we've got. Marianne ~ ~ ~ _________________________________________________________________ Test your Star IQ http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_HMTAGMAR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:35:38 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Ach du Lieberman! Quelle coincidence! Yesterday a CT newspaper took back its 2006 endorsement of Traitor Joe. This is from Salon.com: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:56 EDT "We Don't Know This Sen. Joe" There are more than a few people who've been upset by Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman's continued march rightward. Apparently, that number includes at least one newspaper that in November of 2006 endorsed Lieberman over Democratic primary winner Ned Lamont. In an editorial Sunday, the New London Day walked back its endorsement of Lieberman, who has been very publicly backing Republican John McCain for the presidency. In the editorial, the paper said: "When The Day endorsed Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman for re-election in November 2006 it was supporting a candidate who demonstrated a history of pragmatic leadership and a willingness to seek bipartisan solutions. We wonder what happened to that senator ... While Sen. Lieberman remains experienced, he is no longer even-handedly principled ... Rather than building the bridges The Day expected when it endorsed Sen. Lieberman, he appears busy burning bridges with the party of which he is allegedly still a member. Perhaps the senator is positioning himself for a top cabinet post in a McCain presidency. But if the Democrats prevail, and enlarge their control of the Senate, it is hard to imagine this Connecticut senator being welcomed back with open arms." http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/03/24/lieberman/index.html *** I'm pretty sure the Clintons supported Lieberman. And so did a lot of Republicans and their money money money. And so did Karl Rove. (The Republican nominee was a joke.) As a pollstander for Lamont on election day, chatting w/ Lieberman's pollstanders, I was able to confirm that they were "paid volunteers". All the Lamont people played "for free." Enough already, I know. Sorry, amigos! ; ) Love, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:35:38 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Ach du Lieberman! Quelle coincidence! Yesterday a CT newspaper took back its 2006 endorsement of Traitor Joe. This is from Salon.com: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:56 EDT "We Don't Know This Sen. Joe" There are more than a few people who've been upset by Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman's continued march rightward. Apparently, that number includes at least one newspaper that in November of 2006 endorsed Lieberman over Democratic primary winner Ned Lamont. In an editorial Sunday, the New London Day walked back its endorsement of Lieberman, who has been very publicly backing Republican John McCain for the presidency. In the editorial, the paper said: "When The Day endorsed Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman for re-election in November 2006 it was supporting a candidate who demonstrated a history of pragmatic leadership and a willingness to seek bipartisan solutions. We wonder what happened to that senator ... While Sen. Lieberman remains experienced, he is no longer even-handedly principled ... Rather than building the bridges The Day expected when it endorsed Sen. Lieberman, he appears busy burning bridges with the party of which he is allegedly still a member. Perhaps the senator is positioning himself for a top cabinet post in a McCain presidency. But if the Democrats prevail, and enlarge their control of the Senate, it is hard to imagine this Connecticut senator being welcomed back with open arms." http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/03/24/lieberman/index.html *** I'm pretty sure the Clintons supported Lieberman. And so did a lot of Republicans and their money money money. And so did Karl Rove. (The Republican nominee was a joke.) As a pollstander for Lamont on election day, chatting w/ Lieberman's pollstanders, I was able to confirm that they were "paid volunteers". All the Lamont people played "for free." Enough already, I know. Sorry, amigos! ; ) Love, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Watch Cause Effect, a show about real people making a real difference. Learn more. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:26:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell thong Joni said in a 1999 interview that the following verses were some of the original verses of Both Sides Now. However, she wrote those verses a year before writing the rest of the song and felt like she was in a "different" place a year after so she decided not to include them. -M Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: Rad and fad and in-betweens, and feeling sexy in my jeans And sometimes worn by even Queens I've looked at thongs that way But now I'm going to take them back They hurt my crotch, they ride my crack and left some unappealing tracks I'm sending them away I've looked at thongs from both sides now From "Ooooo" to "Ewwwww", and still somehow, It's thong's illusion I recall I really can't wear thongs at all Bob NP: Damien Rice, "Accidental Babies" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. ------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:45:05 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine Listening & a Trip to Joni's Chelsea "Home" > From: Monika Bogdanowicz > Subject: Shine listening > > Well it's been a little while now since Shine was released. That being > said, when was the last time you listened to it? Just curious. > -M > Well, I actually have listened to it a few times since it was released and just sat down a few nights ago specifically to listen to it (on a night when I was home alone) so I could really absorb it. My initial reaction was less than overwhelmed when it first came out; I really loved "One Week Last Summer" and "If I Had A Heart" the most (and still do). Upon repeated listens (and confirmed the other night), I must admit that I like the first half most ("Hana" and "Bad Dreams" have really grown on me). Out of the second half, I'm drawn most to "Night of The Iguana" and, to a lessor degree, "Strong & Wrong." I didn't like the title track from day one and still don't, and still don't understand the need for the latest incarnation of "Big Yellow Taxi.' Speaking of Big Yellow Taxis, Ro & I went into Manhattan on Sunday (Easter dinner at Wo Hops... yeah, that's right!) and I visited the old Joni "hangin' out" places. The "Tin Angel" may be gone but The Bitter End is still there and the space that the Tin Angel occupied is still there. I also visited 41 W. 16th Street- the building where Joni had an apartment, where she reportedly wrote "Chelsea Morning." I was hoping to see a doorman (there is none) or someone going in or out of the building 'cause I was going to ask them if they knew which apartment had been Joni's and maybe wrangle a "peek" inside. Outside the building, leaning against the wall of an adjoining building, was an old mattress; as I took a picture of Joni's old place, Ro said, "Ken, maybe that's the mattress JONI SLEPT ON!" As you can see, Ro sometimes accompanies me on my crazy little trips but mixes her sense of humor with a bit of good-natured sarcasm. If anyone would like photos from this trip emailed to them, let me know. Kenny B ************** Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00 030000000001) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:07:09 -0400 From: David Eoll Subject: Re: Wright reconsidered NJC *sigh* I thought a long time before sending this. I stayed out of the Obama/Wright thread for the most part, and now that the flames have died down, why on earth would I want to stoke that up again? Honestly, I'm not trolling here. Something just wasn't sitting right with me about it. And I don't feel like biting my tongue about it. Most of the Obama/Wright argument seemed to revolve around whether Obama had sufficiently condemned Wright's racist rhetoric. But, it always seemed to be a given that Wright's rhetoric was racist. So I watched some of it. I know of three clips that seemed to have gotten the most airplay on YouTube. There's the God Damn America one, the 9/11 America's chickens coming home to roost one, and the rich white men screed. I'm assuming the last one was the one that people are talking about being racist. Funny thing though, I wasn't really offended. Like, at all. I am a white man, not rich but not poor either, but definitely in the white man caste, or "mold", that Wright is talking about. So, since his remarks are, I assume, to be considered racist towards whites, and since I am a white myself, shouldn't I feel offended? The thing I found is that I agree with a lot of what he said. Not all of it, the HIV conspiracy stuff I think is out there, and there was one point he made in the "rich white men" spiel that I thought was border-line sexist, but even that I'm not sure of. (I'll elaborate below) But, I didn't find any of it racist, at least not by my definition of the word. So, am I just a self-hating white, suffering from liberal guilt, or does Wright have a point? Is America ruled by rich white men? Well, let's see. There have been five, count 'em five, black senators in US history. And two of those served during Reconstruction. The other 3 were all elected since 1967, never more than one serving at any given time. So since Reconstruction, the US Senate has either been 100% or 99% white, depending on the year. And of course, there has never been a black president. And there have only been 3 black governors, all three in the past quarter century, two took office only in the past couple of years, and one of those was not even elected to the office (Gov. Spitzer's recent replacement in NY). Since 1922 there have been 35 women elected to the US Senate. 20 of those were elected since 1987, 16 of those are currently serving. Before the 1980s there were never more than 2 women serving at a time, and usually 1 or 0. So the Senate was usually between 98% and 100% male. It is only 84% male now, so there has been a huge improvement in the past 2 decades. But considering that men make up slightly less than half the population, they're still clearly overrepresented in the Senate. And, again, there has never been a female president. To put these numbers into perspective, there have been 1,904 Senators in US history, only 35 of them women, and only 5 of them black. And, or course, there have been no black or female presidents out of 43 total. On to wealth. In 2003, there were 40 Senators that were millionaires. 90 Senators had wealth (defined as assets minus debt) over $100,000. That puts 90% of Senators in the top 40% of wealthiest Americans, and 40% of Senators in the top 5% of the wealthiest Americans. About half of US Presidents were from the top 3% of the wealthiest Americans, and more than a quarter of US Presidents (including the current one) were from the top 1% of wealthiest Americans. And since it can be argued, and I'd be happy to argue it, that the course of this country is controlled just as much, if not more, by large corporations, as by our elected government, lets look at the race and gender makeup of America's board rooms and executive suites. After all, they write a lot of the more influential legislation themselves, and then bribe ... er, I mean lobby the Congress to pass it. In the Fortune 500, only 8% of board members are black. Better than in government, interestingly, but still not representative of the population as a whole. Only about 10% of board members are female. The numbers are worse in the executive suite. About 97% of the senior executives in the Fortune 1000 are white, and about 95% are male. And, is it necessary to point out that ALL of these people are rich? Rich. White. Men. So, when Rev. Wright states that the country is ruled by rich, white men, and you need to be from that "mold" in order to advance beyond a certain level, he's just stating a fact. He jumps the tracks a bit by claiming that Hillary has never had to work twice as hard for the same reward, as Obama has had to. That's just flat out wrong. Clearly, women have been marginalized pretty much to the same extent as racial minorities, at least at the top levels of government and business. One may argue that they have been marginalized to an even greater extent because they make up a majority, not a minority, of the population. I don't know if I'd call that sexist, or just a denial of sexism, but it is ignorant to say that Hillary belongs to the same privileged class that white men do. But, I just don't hear racism. I don't hear hatred of whites either. I hear anger and frustration. And I hear a stubborn refusal to sweep America's ugly stain of racism under the carpet. I don't consider calling attention to racism where one sees it to be racism, and that's all I hear Rev. Wright doing. A country that has in 232 years never elected a black president and has only elected 5 black Senators out of 1904 is racist. I should also at this point define what I mean by racism. I was steeped in western Massachusetts feminism and racial studies when I was at UMass in the late 80s. And in such schools of thought, racism and sexism are defined a bit more narrowly than how most people might define those terms. Racism isn't just about discrimination or intolerance based on race. Its about power, and how those with power (whites in this case) oppress those without it (blacks). Likewise, with sexism. So, clearly under those definitions, it is simply not possible for a black person to be guilty of racism, nor for a woman to be guilty of sexism. Now, I tended to dismiss alot of that as overly dogmatic when I was younger, and got into some heated discussions over it. But, I have come to see the point of it. Consider the case of an abusive husband. He beats his wife just like he's beaten other women in his life because he hates women. Now, his wife may come to hate men because of her husband's treatment of her. But, does that make her a sexist? Not in my book. She hates men because a man has beaten the crap out of her on a weekly basis. He just hates women because he's an asshole. Well, more to the point because he's sexist. Neither of their hatred is liable to lead to the healing that they both obviously need, but her anger is at least understandable, justified even. Dare I say righteous? Likewise, after 400 years of slavery, terrorism, KKK, lynchings, Jim Crow, and continued discrimination, I think black people in America have earned the right to be pissed off. Is being angry the way out out of this mess we're in? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know whether Martin's way or Malcolm's way leads to racial justice. And I don't think Wright is all the way one way or the other. I know I prefer Martin's way, but I also know that Martin, Malcolm, and Wright, and Obama have experienced the butt end of racism as neither I nor any other white person in America ever will. Except for maybe John Howard Griffin. I understand that not everyone buys into that definition of racism and sexism. Even the dictionary has multiple definitions, some that lean more toward what I described, and some that lean more toward the broader definition that probably most people adhere to. But, regardless of what we call it, my point is that there is something distinctly different between the discrimination that whites have used to claim superiority over blacks, and the prejudice that many black people have adopted because they're sick and tired of being treated like second class citizens and would just rather not have much to do with white people because of that. I would love nothing better than to close the book on racism. But, I don't think we can just click our heels and magically transform ourselves into a post-racial society. America needs serious therapy to solve its racial problems. That starts with stopping the denial that we still have a racial divide in this country. And pointing that fact out does not constitute racism. I realize that many of the people on this list may disagree strongly with some or all of the above. I'm really not trying to change any of y'all's minds. People I think have decided how they feel about this issue, but its always good in my book to see a new perspective that you may not have considered. I really just had some against-the-grain opinions that were gnawing at me and I wanted to get them off my chest. I really wasn't intending to rekindle the thread, but, of course, that's kind of out of my hands now. So fire away, if you like. Respectfully, David Eoll ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #6 *************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------