From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2008 #1 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, March 21 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 001 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight [] herbie taping with surprise guest JONI ["WATTS, LESLI" ] Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: njc, Barack's Basketball Bracketology [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] NJC punctuation [missblux@googlemail.com] NJC punctuation [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: mystery child on back of DJRD [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: njc, Barack's Basketball Bracketology [Patti Parlette ] Re: NJC punctuation [Smurf ] Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight [Monika Bogdanowicz ] RE: herbie taping with surprise guest JONI ["hell" ] FW: DON'T FORGET BURMA EVENT please join us if you can [Donna Miller ] Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight ["Randy Remote" ] RE: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight a little more herbie ["WATTS, L] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:32:26 -0700 From: Subject: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight Yes, it has been my Joni list avocation ;-) to bring you all a recitation of Joni and other music reviews over the years but I have to confess I am almost stumped tonight after attending the Herbie Hancock taping. Ah well, I am getting older and concise articulation is perhaps no longer my forte - hee! So my review of tonight will be all over the place but hopefully you will get the drift. (I am also exhausted so cut me some slack ;-) The overwhelming feeling is, my God, how did I get so lucky? I remember when I joined the list in 1997, none of us had seen Joni perform live in some 15 years and never expected to ever see her perform live again. When she did the '98 tours we thought we had died and gone to heaven. Then magically there were more events and art exhibits and the PWWAM taping and the 2000 tour and we were alive and thrashing ecstatically once again. Just have to say that once again I won the Joni lottery tonight at the Herbie taping. Lesli and I are the lucky girls. But I digress... We showed up - about 400 of us - and comfortably packed into a small sound stage. Lesli and Pete got front row seats and I got the back but was only about 35 feet away from the stage. I spotted Joni's good friend Charles Valentino ("Val") sitting on a couch nearby with Herbie's wife and daughter and thought this was a good omen. The stage director then somewhat breathlessly started telling us that we were in for some really big surprises tonight and that he has done 31 tapings with other artists but this one was going to take the cake, so to speak. So Herbie and the musicians come out - King of Sax Bob Sheppard, Joni band mate Vinnie Coliauta, Marcus Miller on bass and amazing Lionel from Benin on lead guitar. They play and then everyone keeps talking about "surprises." They do a Q and A from the audience with Herbie. One guy asks why Herbie decided to choose Joni's works for the last album. Of course, Herbie raved on all about Joni. Then he brings her out! She looked absolutely gorgeous. She was wearing a fantastic sort of print coat dress that I saw her in during the 2000 BSN tour which looks like silk jersey and shows the marbled bowling ball of earth and Krishna swinging on a crescent moon and the stars and comets. (I recall back then being amazed that she found the perfect Judgment of the Moon and Stars dress). She then performed the most astounding version of River - all jazz and Herbie inflected style. It was just stunning. Joni's singing voice is amazingly good right now - I felt like I was transported back in time. She then performed Tea Leaf Prophecy and then, surprise, Sonya Kitchell came onstage to back her up on Hana. Everyone was on their feet. I was thinking, well, at least in this setting there will not be anyone bleating out "I Love You, Joni" but yes there was! And it was her own best friend Val who yelled it out with a big grin on his face. It was great! There was some more Q & A with Herbie and now I was just mesmerized by his thoughts. Those who are inspired by Mr. Obama will truly feel quite the same listening to Herbie. I must say with all affection that he likes to talk and expound as much as Joni and every sentence is a gem. Personally, I felt like I was listening to every lesson and word of wisdom ever imparted to me by my father. It may sound weird, but it was very affirming to hear a great like Herbie say so much of what my dad always said to me over the years, be it the true value of life or creativity. A few sound bites from Herbie - success is not measured by fame, celebrity, wealth or power but by how much you give, how much you encourage and by your compassion. He also said that other human beings are never the enemy - that only you can be the enemy and you have to "wake up" from that. Sonya came back on and sang a very jazzy rendition of All I Want. Yes, I was just pinching myself at this point. Herbie also performed Watermelon Man, Cantaloupe and his mindblowing Maiden Voyage - right up there at the top of the most beautiful classical jazz composition you will ever hear. As an encore he brought in artist C Minus to play the turntable to Rockit. Lesli and I talked by cell phone all the way home just ranting and raving. You all can see it yourself on Yahoo on April 1st! Kakki, the most Lucky Girl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:30:56 -0700 From: "WATTS, LESLI" Subject: herbie taping with surprise guest JONI just got home flying hif\gh from the herbie taping. hell we owe you big time for the heads up. when i saw your alert on sunday night i got right on it. most of the nice folk i met in the line had replied on sunday night too.geez! 400 people there. kakki, pete(he's my sweetie) and i tried to sit together but they were getting low in seats. they asked us if we'd accept singles- it would be that or stand. so i waved by to kakki and followed the usher. She seated pete and i together in the front row. Geez! herbie is so damn bright and i could see that twinkle in his eye. as usual he played his ass off, bringing something new and fresh to each tune. the band was killer- vinnie colialuta, sam shepard, flute sax and clarinet, lionel loueke, guitar and marcus miller on bass. there's a lot to tell and i'm tired, i'll try ... kakki had tipped me that val, joni's dancer friend was there so she probably was too, but i hadn't seen her. her sequey was a question to herbie about why he'd chosen joni's work. and suddenly mid show she appeared. she looked glamorous, slim, laughing easily like everything is ok with her. she sounded fabulous. . better i thought than at the kodak theater. or maybe it was just the acoustics. naw she was hitting her stride. she started with river in good good voice, i was on the edge of my seat. then, tea leaf prophecy and hannah with sonia kitchell . i've seen joni alot over the years and she was on. sonya then did ... oh god mind's blank- kakki help? bedtime for me the good news is this is going to be on yahoo music , april 1st and you can see for yourselves bonne nuit lesli ps kakki looked really cute in a dress and matching patent leather ballet flats. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:07:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Taylor Subject: Obama, Joni & Quetzalcoatl njc One thing i adore about Obama, Joni & Quetzalcoatl is that they are black & white & red & yellow (blur to green) These people represent the Medicine Wheel far beyond racial stereotypes. We self=absorbed mortals REALLY NEED to grasp the medicine wheel in this seriously sick age. i live in PA & have finally decided i want Obama for our next President. i really don't want yet another 4 or 8 years of the past argument over Bush vs Clinton regardless of how much i ADORE the Clintons. Our $ick-$ick-$ick world seriously needs a fresh approach Watch what happens in Pennsylvania this month! Perhaps Florida & Michigan will learn why we are called the Keystone State. Exactly WHAT is white or black anyway??? Are there any pure-bloods left besides the genetically weak rednecks who *F* their cousins? The Nazis are into bloodlines. Joni taught me the inportance of being a mutt when i encountered Mingus some 30 years ago. We all know that Joni thinks she's a reincarinated BLACK MAN. Somehow i know that Joni is not torn between Hillary & Obama (like i am). Mutts of the planet UNITE ET NP: in rainbows ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 06:32:15 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight Thanks Kakki and Lesli for sharing your wonderful evening at the Herbie taping. I'm so glad that Joni was there, but I guess seeing Val in the audience was a good tip off that she was. You two are really lucky girls, but I'm so happy for both of you. I'm still curious about the yahoo thing on April 1st. Maybe I missed something from previous post, but where on yahoo can you see the taping? Jimmy In a message dated 3/21/2008 3:38:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kbhla@fastmail.fm writes: > Lesli and I talked by cell phone all the way home just ranting and raving. > You all can see it yourself on Yahoo on April 1st! > ************** Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:31:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: njc, Barack's Basketball Bracketology And DOOK almost lost last night...1 point. Dammit. Bob NP: Badly Drawn Boy, "Born Again" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:46:46 +0100 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: NJC punctuation From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" >> P.S. Does punctuation belong inside the quotes or not? Jim, thanks for finally bringing up an INTERESTING topic here on the list. Punctuation! Punctuation belongs outside quotation marks, unless they are part of the quoted! In my opinion, you put it correctly in: >> And the cliched 'comeback' is "every month is white history month". But not in: >> "American History" always started at "Plymouth Rock," eh? - - because the place is not called "Plymouth Rock,". Also, it is wrong in: >> could you imagine if white people had "white history month?" But would be correct in: He sang "Where have all the flowers gone?" that evening. Happy Easter! Bene ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:46:46 +0100 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: NJC punctuation From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" >> P.S. Does punctuation belong inside the quotes or not? Jim, thanks for finally bringing up an INTERESTING topic here on the list. Punctuation! Punctuation belongs outside quotation marks, unless they are part of the quoted! In my opinion, you put it correctly in: >> And the cliched 'comeback' is "every month is white history month". But not in: >> "American History" always started at "Plymouth Rock," eh? - - because the place is not called "Plymouth Rock,". Also, it is wrong in: >> could you imagine if white people had "white history month?" But would be correct in: He sang "Where have all the flowers gone?" that evening. Happy Easter! Bene ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:12:03 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight Wow indeed, Kakki - SO glad that you and Lesli got to bear witness to this event. Couldn't happen to two nicer folks. Thanks for the as-always elaborate write-up, made me feel like I was in the midst of it all. Let's hope it spurs her on to some further appearances. Bob NP: Porcupine Tree, "Sentimental" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:48:30 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: mystery child on back of DJRD Yep - it definitely is Joni. Bob NP: XTC, "The Man Who Sailed Around His Soul" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:51:49 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: RE: njc, Barack's Basketball Bracketology Bob wrote: And DOOK almost lost last night...1 point. Dammit. *** Yeah, isn't it a pity? Would have been a sweet way to start the tourney. My oldest son (the Joni jokester) happens to be vacationing in FL with his new in-laws and is psyched to be going to the Husky game in Tampa today. I asked him if he'd like to visit some of my Joni friends down there and he said: "Nah. That's okay, Mom." He doesn't know what he's missing! ; ) Bon weekend! Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:55:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: NJC Obama - call for dialogue Well I emailed you privately because I thought you generally wanted to know what the Reverend said. His comments are indeed offensive and you put a spin on them yourself. I took excerpts of things that he said, not putting my opinion in it. I was careful not to do that but you know what? I will just step back from this conversation as anything I say will be thrown out the window at this point. The only thing I will say, if he were a white man, preaching in his Church about white America and black America, saying whites are the chosen people, it would be considered racist. -Monika, stepping back now Barbara Stewart wrote: From: Monika Bogdanowicz To: Barbara Stewart Date: 3/20/08 3:26 PM Subject: [OFFLIST] Re: re; NJC Obama - call for dialogue you'll find my comments on your arguments below. let's start with who I am: a 58 yr old white librarian. I am not an Obama supporter. I have grave reservations regarding his wanting to keep troops in Iraq, and problems with his proposals for universal health care, etc. - frankly, tho I may or may not agree with the delivery, much of what is reported as Wright's statements I can understand or even agree with - am I a "racist", against my own race? > He basically has said things (both racial and controversial) dividing whites and blacks by saying such things like "Aids started as a U.S. govt. plot to wipe out people of color"........... that is not in fact a quote from Wright - evidence not all in yet on source of the AIDS virus - there is a documentary I saw on Sundance that points to a pharma lab / clinic in Africa where they think it might have been first seen that argues that though scientists did whistleblowing at the time it was ignored or covered up by the powers that be - sorry I can't recall title offhand - we just don't know if corporate or govt knew about its generation - we do know that the Reagan administration vilified gay AIDS victims and refused to finance research or take social welfare measures for years >he had compared the U.S to the KKK..... well the historical facts are that the KKK IS American, and that it was tolerated even on official levels in the US for decades - were you around for the years of the genesis of the civil rights mvmt? Are you aware of the number of national politicians (DC) who supported and spoke in the same terms/language as the KKK? they were never denounced while in office - they held power and legislated in this country, sometimes holding their seats for decades - so how can the US not admit that the KKK was part of its legacy of institutionalized racial discrimination? >said God ought to damn America for its racism... here's something bound to get you angry: when I was watching the films of what was happening in New Orleans for well over a week while the gov't did nothing to very little, and the media started the false accusations of wild raping blacks running the streets of New Orleans, I was sitting in front of my TV saying the same - "God damn America for doing this, god damn Bush" with more outrage than the Wright tapes showed - I still feel the same way about it >he said America was creating a racist society which would never elect a black President (apparently not true, eh?) give the quotes - to 'summarize' what you understand to be his remarks is intellectually suspect - it is interpretation, not reportage nor argument ...he is an avid supporter of Louis Farrakhan who has even more controversial/racial/anti semitic views (calling Jews bloodsuckers and saying the entire Jewish religion is a gutter) he is a Methodist!!!!! not a Black Muslim!!! - where did this come from??? - again: give me the quotes, not what you may have heard reported about what he said >....he has blamed "white arrogance" on the problems of America...always speaks about "white america" and what they do against everyone LOL! The mass media speaks in terms of 'black America' and 'white America'!!!! Listen to any of the commentators on the news reporting on the demographic projections of primaries and polls, etc! Is this or is this not a historically racially divided country? Was there slavery in this country or not? Was there systematic discrimination on the basis of skin colour (and religion, and immigration origin) in this country for decades? It is historically documented. I am secure that you are intelligent and well educated enough to understand and know this. So let's go beyond it: is it not true that the social, economic and political implications of generational and institutionalized racism mean that a) there are still remnants of discrimination, overt and covert, and b) that those policies/attitudes created conditions that until very recently (in my adult lifetime) excluded blacks from good jobs, free access to housing in any neighbourhood, porportional presence in higher education, etc etc? IE: that in the lifetime of blacks living today there have been actual or remembered instances of suffering racial discrimination? Who is responsible? A dominant white population. That's simply fact. That you as an individual may not have ever done anything that could be construed as victimizing someone on the basis of race does not belie the generalization that whites were responsible, guilty of and benefitting from racism. Another tack: have you ever generalized, saying "men are sexist" or something similar? Why is Wright's statement any different? It is not racism per se - it is acknowledging that divide. >...he considers black people "the chosen people" And Jewish religious refer to themselves in the same way. And I recall preachers from my childhood saying the same about the Christians. It is a rhetorical flourish or at worst a self-affirmation. So what? What's new? Why when he says it, it is 'racist'? >...separates "black" values from "middle class white" values..(whatever that is) again - watch your TV - this is the terminology and framework of everyday mass media discourse >...and one thing that is more controversial than racial--saying America was to blame for the 911 attacks (only days after the attacks)...bringing it on themselves... He most definitely did NOT say that!! Again you offer interpretive comment as if it were the actual content of his remarks! Who DID say that was Pat Robertson, and other right evangelical leaders. They said because American was morally bankrupted by feminists and gays. Wright actually said that after years of the US invading and bombing populations in other countries (which one sees in context is preceded by his opposition to an agressive foreign policy of military intervention abroad) for the first time it has been experienced here in the 9/11 attack. And further he is aligning himself with the 'blowback' theory (first put out there by the CIA itself, and examined in many mainstream books on foreign policy) that it was the decades of actions of the US abroad that generated the radical social movement in the Mideast that gave birth to Al Qaeda. ie: that our actions in the past had consequences. "Chickens come home to roost" has precisely that meaning. Now that is certainly not the Bush administration explanation for the 'why' of 9/11, but it is a broad current of thought in academic, political and foreign policy circles, both here and abroad. It isn't 'crank' theory, but a part of well reasoned and documented policy alternatives. To criticize American foreign policy does not make one un- or anti-American, but in fact a thinking patriot. This is a democracy after all. > Anyway, I figured I'd send you this offlist as to not offend anyone or spur on chatter about all these comments. These comments have been made public though...check YouTube....and apparently Wright talking about black people as "the chosen people" is just a regular day in his church.. -Monika. As you began the discussion to the list, where I responded to your comment, I am sharing our exchange with the list. I will not contribute further, but since I was taken aback by your initial comments, and it is a huge topic of current affairs, the discussion should be concluded on the list as opposed to privately. No flaming please. A reasoned discussion or none at all. B ==================== Barbara Stewart wrote: Whoa!!!!!! Please do me a favour first .... tell me what was said by Wright that was 'racism'?????? B from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:15:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: NJC Obama - call for dialogue AND And before I shut my mouth for good about this, I will stick with Obama on one thing--I don't agree with what his Pastor said either. I'll go with Obama on that. -M - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:20:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: SV: Hadn't heard this one before... I know Joni had said she was smoking pot as early as 1967. How much did she indulge in that? Only Joni (and perhaps somebody from that time) knows. All I can say is that I have never seen a performance of her visually stoned. However, take anyone from CSNY and you see performance after performance after performance of one or more of them glossy eyed, out of their heads. Although...Joni may have been the type of pot smoker who smoked and nothing was visible when she was stoned. I've known people who smoke up and you wouldn't know they were high unless they told you. So who knows? -M Mark Scott wrote: I know Joni has admitted to doing her share of cocaine during the 70s but I wonder how much she participated otherwise in the whole drug scene. The above seems to imply that she was a spectator to a lot of things rather than a participant. Maybe. Maybe not, too. Mark in Seattle - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:16:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: NJC punctuation Bene wrote: << Punctuation belongs outside quotation marks, unless they are part of the quoted! In my opinion, you put it correctly in: >> And the cliched 'comeback' is "every month is white history month". >> What you say is true for British English, but the opposite is true for written American English. In American English the period -- or full stop, as the British say -- would be within the quotation marks. I always assumed the Brits were getting their own language wrong until I read "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss. The following is from Wikipedia: << Punctuation The traditional convention in American English is for commas and periods to be included inside the quotation marks, regardless of whether they are part of the quoted sentence, while the British style places them in or outside of the quotation marks in accordance with whether or not the punctuation is part of the quoted phrase. The American rule is derived from typesetting while the British rule is grammatical (see below for more explanation). Although the terms American style and British style are used it is not as clear cut as that because at least one major British newspaper prefers typesetters' quotation (punctuation inside) and BBC Newsuses both styles, while scientific and technical publications, even in the U.S., almost universally use logical quotation (punctuation outside unless part of the source material), due to its precision. As with many such differences, the American rule follows an older British standard. The typesetters rule was standard in early 19th century Britain; the grammatical rule was advocated by the extremely influential bookThe Kings English, by Fowler and Fowler. Carefree means free from care or anxiety. (American style)Carefree means free from care or anxiety. (British style)Hello, world, I said. (both styles)The American English rule is often not applied if the presence of the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks will lead to ambiguity, for example in describing commands to be typed into a computer: In the File name text field, type HelloWorldApp.java, including the quotation marks.[8]Before the advent of mechanical type, the order of quotation marks with periods and commas was not given much consideration. The printing press required that the easily damaged smallest pieces of type for the comma and period be protected behind the more robust quotation marks.[9] The U.S. style still adheres to this older tradition in everyday use and in non-technical formal writing. Today, most areas of publication conform to one of the two standards above. However, in subjects such as chemistry and software documentation it is conventional to include only the precise quoted text within the quotation marks. This avoids ambiguity with regard to whether a punctuation mark belongs to the quotation: Enter the URL as www.wikipedia.org, the name as Wikipedia, and click OK.The URL starts with www.wikipedia.. This is followed by org or com.In both styles, question marks and exclamation marks are placed inside or outside quoted material on the basis of logic, but colons and semicolons are always placed outside [10]: Did he say, Good morning, Dave?No, he said, Where are you, Dave?In the first two sentences above, only one punctuation mark is used at the end of each. Regardless of its placement, only one end mark (?, !, or .) can end a sentence in American English. References: Chicago Manual of Style, 15th edition; Harts Rules for Compositors and Readers at the University Press, Oxford. [edit]>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark) - --Smurf _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: NJC punctuation Bene wrote: << Punctuation belongs outside quotation marks, unless they are part of the quoted! In my opinion, you put it correctly in: >> And the cliched 'comeback' is "every month is white history month". >> What you say is true for British English, but the opposite is true for written American English. In American English the period -- or full stop, as the British say -- would be within the quotation marks. I always assumed the Brits were getting their own language wrong until I read "Eats, Shoots and Leaves," by Lynne Truss. The following is from Wikipedia: << Punctuation The traditional convention in American English is for commas and periods to be included inside the quotation marks, regardless of whether they are part of the quoted sentence, while the British style places them in or outside of the quotation marks in accordance with whether or not the punctuation is part of the quoted phrase. The American rule is derived from typesetting while the British rule is grammatical (see below for more explanation). Although the terms American style and British style are used it is not as clear cut as that because at least one major British newspaper prefers typesetters' quotation (punctuation inside) and BBC Newsuses both styles, while scientific and technical publications, even in the U.S., almost universally use logical quotation (punctuation outside unless part of the source material), due to its precision. As with many such differences, the American rule follows an older British standard. The typesetters rule was standard in early 19th century Britain; the grammatical rule was advocated by the extremely influential bookThe Kings English, by Fowler and Fowler. Carefree means free from care or anxiety. (American style)Carefree means free from care or anxiety. (British style)Hello, world, I said. (both styles)The American English rule is often not applied if the presence of the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks will lead to ambiguity, for example in describing commands to be typed into a computer: In the File name text field, type HelloWorldApp.java, including the quotation marks.[8]Before the advent of mechanical type, the order of quotation marks with periods and commas was not given much consideration. The printing press required that the easily damaged smallest pieces of type for the comma and period be protected behind the more robust quotation marks.[9] The U.S. style still adheres to this older tradition in everyday use and in non-technical formal writing. Today, most areas of publication conform to one of the two standards above. However, in subjects such as chemistry and software documentation it is conventional to include only the precise quoted text within the quotation marks. This avoids ambiguity with regard to whether a punctuation mark belongs to the quotation: Enter the URL as www.wikipedia.org, the name as Wikipedia, and click OK.The URL starts with www.wikipedia.. This is followed by org or com.In both styles, question marks and exclamation marks are placed inside or outside quoted material on the basis of logic, but colons and semicolons are always placed outside [10]: Did he say, Good morning, Dave?No, he said, Where are you, Dave?In the first two sentences above, only one punctuation mark is used at the end of each. Regardless of its placement, only one end mark (?, !, or .) can end a sentence in American English. References: Chicago Manual of Style, 15th edition; Harts Rules for Compositors and Readers at the University Press, Oxford. [edit]>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark) - --Smurf _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:22:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight Thank you for that review. It sounds like you had a wonderful time and that it was a lovely time in general. I tried to picture it in my head best I could. -M kbhla@fastmail.fm wrote: Yes, it has been my Joni list avocation ;-) to bring you all a recitation of Joni and other music reviews over the years but I have to confess I am almost stumped tonight after attending the Herbie Hancock taping. Ah well, I am getting older and concise articulation is perhaps no longer my forte - hee! So my review of tonight will be all over the place but hopefully you will get the drift. (I am also exhausted so cut me some slack ;-) The overwhelming feeling is, my God, how did I get so lucky? I remember when I joined the list in 1997, none of us had seen Joni perform live in some 15 years and never expected to ever see her perform live again. When she did the '98 tours we thought we had died and gone to heaven. Then magically there were more events and art exhibits and the PWWAM taping and the 2000 tour and we were alive and thrashing ecstatically once again. Just have to say that once again I won the Joni lottery tonight at the Herbie taping. Lesli and I are the lucky girls. But I digress... We showed up - about 400 of us - and comfortably packed into a small sound stage. Lesli and Pete got front row seats and I got the back but was only about 35 feet away from the stage. I spotted Joni's good friend Charles Valentino ("Val") sitting on a couch nearby with Herbie's wife and daughter and thought this was a good omen. The stage director then somewhat breathlessly started telling us that we were in for some really big surprises tonight and that he has done 31 tapings with other artists but this one was going to take the cake, so to speak. So Herbie and the musicians come out - King of Sax Bob Sheppard, Joni band mate Vinnie Coliauta, Marcus Miller on bass and amazing Lionel from Benin on lead guitar. They play and then everyone keeps talking about "surprises." They do a Q and A from the audience with Herbie. One guy asks why Herbie decided to choose Joni's works for the last album. Of course, Herbie raved on all about Joni. Then he brings her out! She looked absolutely gorgeous. She was wearing a fantastic sort of print coat dress that I saw her in during the 2000 BSN tour which looks like silk jersey and shows the marbled bowling ball of earth and Krishna swinging on a crescent moon and the stars and comets. (I recall back then being amazed that she found the perfect Judgment of the Moon and Stars dress). She then performed the most astounding version of River - all jazz and Herbie inflected style. It was just stunning. Joni's singing voice is amazingly good right now - I felt like I was transported back in time. She then performed Tea Leaf Prophecy and then, surprise, Sonya Kitchell came onstage to back her up on Hana. Everyone was on their feet. I was thinking, well, at least in this setting there will not be anyone bleating out "I Love You, Joni" but yes there was! And it was her own best friend Val who yelled it out with a big grin on his face. It was great! There was some more Q & A with Herbie and now I was just mesmerized by his thoughts. Those who are inspired by Mr. Obama will truly feel quite the same listening to Herbie. I must say with all affection that he likes to talk and expound as much as Joni and every sentence is a gem. Personally, I felt like I was listening to every lesson and word of wisdom ever imparted to me by my father. It may sound weird, but it was very affirming to hear a great like Herbie say so much of what my dad always said to me over the years, be it the true value of life or creativity. A few sound bites from Herbie - success is not measured by fame, celebrity, wealth or power but by how much you give, how much you encourage and by your compassion. He also said that other human beings are never the enemy - that only you can be the enemy and you have to "wake up" from that. Sonya came back on and sang a very jazzy rendition of All I Want. Yes, I was just pinching myself at this point. Herbie also performed Watermelon Man, Cantaloupe and his mindblowing Maiden Voyage - right up there at the top of the most beautiful classical jazz composition you will ever hear. As an encore he brought in artist C Minus to play the turntable to Rockit. Lesli and I talked by cell phone all the way home just ranting and raving. You all can see it yourself on Yahoo on April 1st! Kakki, the most Lucky Girl - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:43:39 +0100 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: NJC punctuation Hi Smurf! How interesting about the punctuation (seriously, I like this stuff)! When I wrote to Jim I was wondering if it might be different in the US, but I guessed it was not.... I was taught, in the UK, to put footnotes after the punctuation, because it looks better, but I don't know if that is standard, my teacher was a poet, I think he made up his own rules. Bene Listening to Easter Mass on the radio and thinking about punctuation. Wondering if there are other people out there with funkier lives...? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:43:39 +0100 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: NJC punctuation Hi Smurf! How interesting about the punctuation (seriously, I like this stuff)! When I wrote to Jim I was wondering if it might be different in the US, but I guessed it was not.... I was taught, in the UK, to put footnotes after the punctuation, because it looks better, but I don't know if that is standard, my teacher was a poet, I think he made up his own rules. Bene Listening to Easter Mass on the radio and thinking about punctuation. Wondering if there are other people out there with funkier lives...? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:50:18 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, gay hockey fans criticize Garden It's a shame it's a crying shame Look at those jokers When Tradition and Taunts Collide: Gay Hockey Fans Criticize Garden By KATIE THOMAS During the final 10 minutes of many Rangers home games, the spotlights focus on Section 407 as Larry Goodman, a longtime season-ticket holder, pumps up the crowd with a goofy dance. As Goodmans routine is broadcast on the giant monitors above the ice, a familiar chant picks up momentum. Ho-mo Lar-ry! the crowd shouts. Ho-mo Lar-ry! The chant is one example of what several gay hockey fans describe as a toxic atmosphere during Rangers games and that Madison Square Garden, which owns the team, is not doing nearly enough to address their concerns...... http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/sports/hockey/21fans.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&ref=sports&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin Not much semblance of a garden. How sad that ANY one has to stay away from ANY place because of who they are. Peace, Patti P. P.S. Hockey has been very very good to my family. My Michael is coaching his Mite team (6 and 7 year-olds) in the state tournament today. It was his volunteer coaching that helped him see that he has a gift for working with kids, which kept him out of the military madness. If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times: Hallelujah! _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:08:50 +0100 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: NJC Obama Hi all, just to say I think Obama did the only thing he could do to protect his integrity. If he has been a follower of Wright for years, then nobody is going to trust him if he turns his back at him from one day to the other - clearly only because of the media attention. In the long run I think he will only benefit from having stood by his friendship with Wright, although he also condemns his words. I'd wish for myself that I'd react like this in a similar situation. What he does in his speech is embrace the good and the bad, and as far as I can see that is what he has to be able to do if he is a unitor, not a divider. Btw., someone said that if he has lost terrain in the debate it may not be because of the Wright incident, but because Clinton is trying to undermine his credibility as a defender of the country. I think that could be potentially more dangerous for him. In any case, if Obama is as honourable as he seems to be, then I don't think there is any reason to think he has lost the elections yet. I'm sure there are more skeletons in Billary's closet than in Baracks, and as for McCain, he seems really dodgy to me. So let's see what comes up next.... Bene ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:35:13 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) Punctuation - inside or outside quotation marks? Jim inquired: > P.S. Does punctuation belong inside the quotes or not? It depends on the punctuation. Rules are different for question marks, commas, etc. Maybe this is helpful: http://grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html Or not. ; ) Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:51:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike and Patti Haskins Subject: Yahoo Music Here's where the Herbie show will be: http://music.yahoo.com/promo-31904706 Look interesting, play by the song, pre and post photos, etc. Can't wait. Hurry April! Patti Haskins blog shop photos ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 06:26:36 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: RE: herbie taping with surprise guest JONI Lesli wrote: > just got home flying hif\gh from the herbie taping. hell we owe > you big time for the heads up. when i saw your alert on sunday > night i got right on it. My pleasure - I'm glad my quick thinking paid off! > there's a lot to tell and i'm tired, i'll try ... kakki had > tipped me that val, joni's dancer friend was there so she > probably was too, but i hadn't seen her. her sequey was a > question to herbie about why he'd chosen joni's work. and > suddenly mid show she appeared. Now I'm even more glad that I sent the heads up to the list, just sorry I couldn't be there with you. I haven't even heard Herbie's album yet (we're on a tight budget) but will get it eventually. But it sounded like a fantastic night, and I'm glad someone from the list was there! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:36:12 -0400 From: Donna Miller Subject: FW: DON'T FORGET BURMA EVENT please join us if you can - ------ Forwarded Message From: "\"Anne Bayin\" " "Anne Bayin" Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:53:08 -0400 To: Subject: DON'T FORGET BURMA EVENT please join us if you can Don't Forget Burma! In October 2007, Toronto staged the second biggest rally in the world in support of the democracy movement in Burma. Come join us again - and bring 10 friends. Six-Month Commemoration of the Crackdown on the Saffron Revolution March 27, 2008 5:30 - 7:30pm City Hall, Toronto *Meet in front of Winston Churchill Statue (South-West corner of Nathan Phillips Square)* Program includes Award-winning writers Karen Connelly and John Ralston Saul Senator Nancy Ruth, The Parliamentary Friends of Burma Olivia Chow, Member of Parliament U Bo Hla Tint, Senior minister of Burmese government in exile The event begins in front of the Winston Churchill Statue with a participatory display in Aung San Suu Kyi masks (provided with a small donation), then moves into Council Chambers for a film, speakers, and a vote against Burma's referendum. News of our support will be broadcast inside Burma. www.canadiancampaignforfreeburma.org This event is wheelchair accessible. - ------ End of Forwarded Message [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:36:55 -0700 From: Russell Bowden Subject: DJRD pics Gang, Who is the kid in the tux...and in the liner notes...who is Krimms? Thanks for the magic...? Whenever I play DJRD..I crawl on my knees to my cd rack to get it out....my pilgramage thang....El Gee...are you still with me on this one....? I LOVE DJRD more than my own oxygen Russ _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ realtime_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:59:19 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight Thanks Kakki & Lesli for giving us the juicy details- what a night of music! Do you think they will make a dvd out of it? Or will it just be the Yahoo online thing? RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:45:22 -0700 From: Subject: Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight Jimmy and all, We only heard that the concert will be shown on Yahoo on April 1st. I found a link to these shows called "Nissan Live Sets", so watch this space! http://music.yahoo.com/promo-31904706 Kakki, off to see my wonderful BOBBY CALDWELL at Catalina Jazz tonight ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: FMYFL@aol.com To: kbhla@fastmail.fm ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:32 AM Subject: Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight Thanks Kakki and Lesli for sharing your wonderful evening at the Herbie taping. I'm so glad that Joni was there, but I guess seeing Val in the audience was a good tip off that she was. You two are really lucky girls, but I'm so happy for both of you. I'm still curious about the yahoo thing on April 1st. Maybe I missed something from previous post, but where on yahoo can you see the taping? Jimmy In a message dated 3/21/2008 3:38:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kbhla@fastmail.fm writes: Lesli and I talked by cell phone all the way home just ranting and raving. You all can see it yourself on Yahoo on April 1st! ************** Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom 00030000000001) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:12:05 -0700 From: "WATTS, LESLI" Subject: RE: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight a little more herbie it seems like you can buy it track by track. i have loved herbie's work since my husband romanticed me with my funny valentine, not so softly playing. like kakki said he seems to be a beloved family member reminding you of your courage, moral compass and creative spark. watching his path all these years has made me admire him even more. like joni. what an wonderful night shared with a compassionate man. lesli ________________________________ From: owner-joni@smoe.org on behalf of Randy Remote Sent: Fri 3/21/2008 12:59 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Wow content - Joni and Herbie tonight Thanks Kakki & Lesli for giving us the juicy details- what a night of music! Do you think they will make a dvd out of it? Or will it just be the Yahoo online thing? RR ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2008 #1 *************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------