From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #614 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, March 20 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 614 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC Obama ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC Obama ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: obama njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Nothing to do with Obama (njc) [] re: NJC Obama ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Fwd: the brain again, njc [Jeannie ] Re: joni, the muse ["Steve T." ] Re: NJC Obama [Jerry Notaro ] re: NJC Obama [Em ] Re: NJC Obama [Em ] Re: NJC Obama [Jerry Notaro ] Re: NJC Obama [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni's "hanging out" days [PassScribe@aol.com] You lucky New Yorkers - njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: NJC Obama [Monika Bogdanowicz ] NJC President John McCain [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Joni's "hanging out" days [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: NJC President John McCain [Jerry Notaro ] RE: NJC Obama ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC President John McCain [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Hadn't heard this one before... ["Les Irvin" ] now, bi racial Obama, njc [Marianne Rizzo ] Re: NJC Obama ["Lori Fye" ] ncj, Ev'rybody's talking 'bout Minister, when all we are saying.... [Patt] re; NJC Obama - call for dialogue ["Barbara Stewart" ] what's race got to do with it? NJC [Mags ] obama njc [Patti Parlette ] Re: NJC Obama - call for dialogue ["Barbara Stewart" Subject: Re: NJC Obama RR>Why is Obama considered black? He is half white.< A question I've asked also. Apparently, Obama defines himself as such. And historically that is how it has been. That is not to say it is accurate, just that it is what it is. For now. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:20:36 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC Obama Jeff, my husband asked me what I thought of the speech. Jeff voted for Hillary in the primary. I've always supported Obama & have shared some of the reasons but never tried to 'sell' him on my choice. After he listened to the speech, Jeff said he felt it perhaps the most amazing speech he'd heard in decades & compared it to one by FDR. He is now in total support of Obama & felt Hillary, as smart as she is, cannot hold a candle to Obama. He was deeply moved by the fact that Obama encapsulated so much of the struggle of the past several decades that he has personally been witness to, while holding strong to his core principles. I was blown away because I didn't expect his opinion to change that radically. I listened to the speech again & heard a lot more than I did the first time. He speaks to everyone who has ever struggled, IMO. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:37:02 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: obama njc Thanks for listening Mack. You are very welcome. I hope you'll give Barrack another chance. I listened again & heard a whole lot more than I did the first time through. I have no doubt that he seeks to unite. And with his intelligence & statesmanship I believe that if anyone can, he can. Kate > In his speech I heard him continually denounce his pastors viewpoints but > not the man. That is the deepest wisdom. If each person could embrace > that > view, wow, what a place this world would be. > > Kate >Kate, impressive post. And very thought provoking. Thank You. Mack< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:58:56 -0700 From: Subject: Nothing to do with Obama (njc) Mack wrote "Ask Kakki." No, Go ask Alice, I think she'll know ;-) "When logic and proportion Have fallen sloppy dead, And the White Knight is talking backwards And the Red Queen's "off with her head!" Remember what the dormouse said: Feed your head. Feed your head. Feed your head" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 01:02:09 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: re: NJC Obama One more obama post from me before its nighty night. Monica, that is interesting that you think he went too far. To me, THANK GOD he said what he did!!! I am so tired of political cautiousness when it comes to politicians running for office saying what they think people want them to hear. Obama scored a home run IMO for standing his ground on this one. Who can't relate to loving someone in their family or circle of friends who has a viewpoint that we cringe at? I think Obama would agree with what you say below. He wasn't excusing his pastor's views at all. However your analogy about German people does not fit. He explained why so many of people of his pastor's generation were angry. It isn't because of some past generational injustice- it is because of injustice they experienced directly in their own lifetimes. This is what he meant about the necessity of addressing the root of anger before we can move on & let go. And he emphatically stated it was time to move beyond anger. That was his whole point in fact. Kate Monica > I think he went a little too far politically by going on about the Pastor being his family and friend.< > you can't hold on to the injustice of the past as an excuse for your racism. You shouldn't be angry with the white people of today because of past wrongs. That doesn't give you a free pass. You only make things worse then by indulging in such thoughts and feelings. I mean, I'm not angry at Germans today scolding them because they killed "my" people and nearly demolished< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 01:20:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Re: Fwd: the brain again, njc I didn't finish the previous e-mail and clicked send instead of draft. Sorry!! I'm tired and could/can no longer elaborate. Your opinion I was referring/replying to you concerns Obama saying he considered Rev. Wright as "family." The link I previously mentioned to you sends you to a lecture by a Neuroscientist givien to a group of medical students. Extremely innaresting! Maybe Obama's definition of "family" is similar to that what the research scientist meant discussing the brain, and coming to an understanding, after a near-death experience, she came back to experience how our planet is truly filled with certain compassionate, loving, peaceful, humans who desire only to make this planet a better place, together as brothers and sisters. Take it as you may, but maybe click on Laura's link to get an inkling of a what many consider, "family,' beyond the sacred circle of our very own similar blood-related beloved families. Truly, Jeannie NR:'The Conquistadors and Crypto-Jews of Monterrey' by David T. Raphael. She's researching our surnames. More reasons to have racism thrown my way. Ohhh, well! Good night! Jeannie wrote: Hello Mack, Fellow Texan/JMDLer, I'm forwarding this link Laura sent us a few days ago. I'm sending it to you since you mentioned something Laura Stanley wrote: Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:45:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: the brain, njc To: joni@smoe.org CC: treegreen1@hotmail.com Hi Ya'll, I'm teaching neuroscience to the med students this term, and one of my students emailed this link to me and the class. It is really good for seeing how we need both hemispheres of our brains to be who we are, BOTH a connected and separate being with the universe. It also shows how our society and world could use us in our right hemisphere a little more. It is the integration of both hemispheres that probably results in geniuses like Joni. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/229 Love, Laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ~nj~ - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:23:27 +0000 From: "Steve T." Subject: Re: joni, the muse Oh love this photo - so natural. Yeah the baby haha! It actually made me think of Crosby's little anecdote which I think I read in the "Both Sides Now" biog. He would 'roll one up' and get Joni to play for other musicians. Come to think of it, he might be offering the photographer one here... I should send this to my father, who is a big fan of Clapton but always dismissed Joni's talent. Steve - ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:28:48 -0700 (PDT) > From: Monika Bogdanowicz > Subject: Re: joni, the muse > > Even the baby is mesmerized! I'm only kidding but in all seriousness, > Joni is very much a musician's musician. I think I have read somewhere that > during that hangout time (whatever you want to call it) Eric Clapton was > very much concentrating on what Joni was doing--watching her fingers trying > to figure out what she was doing. Yeah, Eric Clapton trying to figure out > what Joni was doing on guitar! > I've got to say all those late 60's days of Joni hanging out with > _______ (fill in the blank) seemed like they would have been a good > time. Whenever I read about the little "community" they had back in that > day (Laurel Canyon and all) I'm a little envious I'm not a part of a little > community myself. It just isn't the same nowdays I would imagine. > -M > > David Eoll wrote: > I keep getting drawn back to this picture that I linked to the other day > in a post: > http://tinyurl.com/2lzztn > > And I just find it remarkable. Joni is often referred to as "a > musician's musician", evidenced by jazz genius Herbie Hancock's recent > tribute to her music. And here we have visual evidence of the same. > Joni serenading two of the biggest guys in rock music in the late 60s. > Clapton in particular was almost universally acknowledged as one of the > best rock/blues guitar players then. And he is obviously mesmerized by > her. Okay, maybe its the acid, but still, he's totally digging her. > > Wishing I was EC right there, > David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:49:38 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Obama It also has a legal history, called the "one drop rule." Remember Showboat? One drop of "sub Saharan" blood made you black, or "Colored" in other parts of the world. Jerry > RR>Why is Obama considered black? He is half white.< > > A question I've asked also. Apparently, Obama defines himself as such. And > historically that is how it has been. That is not to say it is accurate, > just that it is what it is. For now. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:05:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: re: NJC Obama - --- in her post Kate wrote: > why so many of people of his pastor's generation > were > angry. It isn't because of some past generational injustice- it is > because > of injustice they experienced directly in their own lifetimes. Not sure if it is still being offered "on Demand" but one of the major cable channels was recently featuring Spike Lee's "4 Little Girls", from 1998, in either the documentaries or specials section. http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/tv/reviews/2239/ This is a good one to illustrate some reasons that a black person of Wright's generation *might* have some anger. (and you know there may be more) Provides perspective. I found it a good thing. Had dinner with my mom last night who is totally 100% Hillary. She says Hillary "deserves" this presidency... hmmmm.... well yeah, but.... Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:11:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: NJC Obama Bob Marley and Charles Mingus were also half white, but it seems no one has trouble thinking of them as black. Just something that occured to me... Em - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > It also has a legal history, called the "one drop rule." Remember > Showboat? > One drop of "sub Saharan" blood made you black, or "Colored" in other > parts > of the world. > > Jerry > > > > RR>Why is Obama considered black? He is half white.< > > > > A question I've asked also. Apparently, Obama defines himself as > such. And > > historically that is how it has been. That is not to say it is > accurate, > > just that it is what it is. For now. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:15:11 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Obama I find it encouraging the that Obama's speech is getting more hit on YouTube than his minister's snippets. Jerry > --- in her post Kate wrote: > >> why so many of people of his pastor's generation >> were >> angry. It isn't because of some past generational injustice- it is >> because >> of injustice they experienced directly in their own lifetimes. > > Not sure if it is still being offered "on Demand" but one of the major > cable channels was recently featuring Spike Lee's "4 Little Girls", > from 1998, in either the documentaries or specials section. > http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/tv/reviews/2239/ > > This is a good one to illustrate some reasons that a black person of > Wright's generation *might* have some anger. (and you know there may be > more) > > Provides perspective. I found it a good thing. > > Had dinner with my mom last night who is totally 100% Hillary. She says > Hillary "deserves" this presidency... > > hmmmm.... > well yeah, but.... > > Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:48:37 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Obama Yes, as long as it's: "Looks like the hapless Cubs are BLOWING another lead!" "I don't mind if you chomp on that gum, but must you always be BLOWING bubbles?" "BLOWING on that Chicago deep-dish pizza will help to cool it" And of course: "I'm gonna BLOW this damn candle out, I don't want nobody comin' over to my table I got nuthin' to talk to anybody about" Bob NP: Joni, "Paprika Plains" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:49:27 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's "hanging out" days In a message dated 3/20/08 2:03:44 AM, Monika writes: > I've got to say all those late 60's days of Joni hanging out with _______ > (fill in the blank) seemed like they would have been a good time. Whenever I > read about the little "community" they had back in that day (Laurel Canyon > and all) I'm a little envious I'm not a part of a little community myself. It > just isn't the same nowdays I would imagine. > -M > Yes, Monika, I would have loved to be a part of THOSE days... or even a "fly on the wall." But I think we all have our "hanging out days"... they're just not always thought of as "important" until we get older. And we can't plan it... those memorable events just have to "happen" on their own. Of course, not all of us have "days" that compare to what happened in Laurel Canyon in the 1960's. You know, we've got our own little "community" right here and, while I've had some good times to remember in my early days, the more recent times I've spent at JoniFests rank right up there with the best of them. And that "Night In The City" - the night after the Carnegie Hall Tribute show in NYC- is one of my most memorable. Kenny B ************** Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00 030000000001) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:15:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: You lucky New Yorkers - njc Chris Stills - Joe9s Pub - March 21st - $15 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:07:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: NJC Obama Well I said that I thought Obama went just a "step" too far in his speech because it just seemed at the time, that it would or could be used against him. Already there are some (not a great number, no, but still) who have turned away from Obama (reading what I read and hearing what I hear) because of his speech. He still has a lot of support no doubt but a few have turned. Plus, the Republican/conservative side is having a FIELD DAY with Obama's speech, particularly the part of the Pastor. They are slamming Obama left and right by saying he is promoting racism or more or less excusing it. Do I think so? No of course not. But are Republicans having a good time with this? Yes. Is it giving them some good leverage? Yes. Working at the radio station I work at, I get insight into the Republican/conservative/right side of things--what the hosts say, what callers say, etc etc. I never agree with a word they say (hey man I need a paycheck and even moreso experience to move on in radio!) but it is interesting to get to get an insight from "both sides now." -Monika, who hates when people use the terms "the left" or the "right"...it is used as a slam against the "other side" - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:16:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: NJC President John McCain I'm not one for polls since they are NOT a good representative sample. You can naturally make statistics look the way you want them to. This is fact but...but...latest polls say that Obama's lead over Hillary has dropped significantly....and that she is now leading him according to the latest gallup poll. I don't know if I can "believe" these polls, as I said, they are not a great way to present reality but a good number of polls have been somewhat accurate. However, that is not my main point here. Just a week or two ago, both Hillary and Obama were leading McCain, if ever so slightly (yes even Obama was only slightly beating McCain in national polls...McCain holds a lot more weight than the media actually shows, don't believe all you see!). The newest polls shows BOTH Obama and Hillary losing to McCain now. Hillary is closer to creeping up on McCain's lead but still BOTH are losing, according to National Polls. Now as I said, polls are not the be all, end all. But just the fact that such a thing is being reported makes my skin crawl (as this was never shown in any polls previously). Could it actually be President John McCain afterall? That is a horrible idea to me. Oh man. President John McCain? That makes me cringe folks. So it seems...Obama is not the ultimate guy to "beat" McCain afterall, as he doesn't have a great lead over him (no lead apparently now and never actually had a great lead over him). No more argument saying Hillary could never beat out McCain as far as I'm concerned making Obama the "prime choice." Nobody is the ultimate person to beat him it seems. He's gaining more momentum...though the media doesn't care to focus on him. -Monika, disturbed by the idea of McCain as Pres - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:27:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni's "hanging out" days True that, as some say. However, our community here is most of the time limited to the net. Sure we've got our Jonifests (I went last year but am crushed there is no Northeast one this year) which have wonderful memories...and everyone means well and seems connected in a way but it isn't the same. There's no adjacent house to me where I could just bring my guitar over and play someone my songs, with no intentions (I mean I play songs at shows but with the intention of being at a show entertaining and so forth). I've got no one to just share songs with or jam just for jamming sake---and by no one I mean not just some random stranger who I found through a musician ad (which I have done when forming bands in the past) but an actual friend who happens to be a musician as well. I've got "musician friends," people who I've played shows with who I know and get along with but no actual kinship with any of those people. They're generally too flaky to have a real friendship with where there would be a bond through music and companionship. It seems in Joni's "hanging out" days, she really had these at the time. Sure, the drugs and the general hippy, happy feeling of "love everyone" probably helped but still it existed. Not to say I don't have times where I hangout with people or with friends or whatever but there is no actual connection generally speaking. I don't know if it is the people I know or the age I am at but almost 95% of the people I do know are flaky and unreliable. Sure, fun to hang out with every now and again but I wouldn't expect anything from them. -Monika PassScribe@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/20/08 2:03:44 AM, Monika writes: You know, we've got our own little "community" right here and, while I've had some good times to remember in my early days, the more recent times I've spent at JoniFests rank right up there with the best of them. And that "Night In The City" - the night after the Carnegie Hall Tribute show in NYC- is one of my most memorable. Kenny B ************** Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:37:21 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC President John McCain To be fair, Monika, McCain is no Bush. He was the first Republican to denounce the Swiftboat attacks on John Kerry and to criticize President Bush for not disavowing them. Jerry > I'm not one for polls since they are NOT a good representative sample. You > can naturally make statistics look the way you want them to. This is fact > but...but...latest polls say that Obama's lead over Hillary has dropped > significantly....and that she is now leading him according to the latest > gallup poll. I don't know if I can "believe" these polls, as I said, they are > not a great way to present reality but a good number of polls have been > somewhat accurate. > However, that is not my main point here. Just a week or two ago, both > Hillary and Obama were leading McCain, if ever so slightly (yes even Obama was > only slightly beating McCain in national polls...McCain holds a lot more > weight than the media actually shows, don't believe all you see!). The newest > polls shows BOTH Obama and Hillary losing to McCain now. Hillary is closer to > creeping up on McCain's lead but still BOTH are losing, according to National > Polls. > Now as I said, polls are not the be all, end all. But just the fact that > such a thing is being reported makes my skin crawl (as this was never shown in > any polls previously). Could it actually be President John McCain afterall? > That is a horrible idea to me. Oh man. President John McCain? That makes me > cringe folks. So it seems...Obama is not the ultimate guy to "beat" McCain > afterall, as he doesn't have a great lead over him (no lead apparently now and > never actually had a great lead over him). No more argument saying Hillary > could never beat out McCain as far as I'm concerned making Obama the "prime > choice." Nobody is the ultimate person to beat him it seems. He's gaining > more momentum...though the media doesn't care to focus on him. > -Monika, disturbed by the idea of McCain as Pres > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:55:52 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: NJC Obama Monica, of course they are having a field day because 1) that is what happens in a presidential race 2) obama criticized the talk show right along with his pastor in his speech 3) just like his pastor, the extreme conservative view is fueled by anger so they are not going to 'get' it (I have one or two in my family who are regular devotees of right wing talk radio so I know about loving people for who they are in spite of their wretched viewpoints) . where would they be without their anger? Some may have turned away but others have jumped on his bandwagon. Such is the nature of this primary time. If he wins the nomination they will be simply frothing beyond belief. That is because he is everything they are not. And that is a threat to them. Kate * Well I said that I thought Obama went just a "step" too far in his speech because it just seemed at the time, that it would or could be used against him. Already there are some (not a great number, no, but still) who have turned away from Obama (reading what I read and hearing what I hear) because of his speech. He still has a lot of support no doubt but a few have turned. < ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:03:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: NJC President John McCain Right, right. He is no Bush certainly but he openly accepted his support (Was that good or bad for his campaign? That seems to be the ?) but he still is a Republican...hence pretty much the opposite of anything I believe...and more importantly...MOST IMPORTANTLY...he is set on making the Iraq War the next Hundred Years War. Unlike that war, he really wants it to last one hundred years or as long as it takes...for what to happen? Iraq to settle and be a democracy? Come on man. That, Jerry, is something I can not ever ever ever ever go for. Does John McCain seem like a "nice" guy? Sure he does. I have no problem with him personally. He seems polite and has done some good work. However I have a problem with him politically. I'm not voting for who seems the nicest but on whose issues I most agree with.... -M Jerry Notaro wrote: To be fair, Monika, McCain is no Bush. He was the first Republican to denounce the Swiftboat attacks on John Kerry and to criticize President Bush for not disavowing them. Jerry > I'm not one for polls since they are NOT a good representative sample. You > can naturally make statistics look the way you want them to. This is fact > but...but...latest polls say that Obama's lead over Hillary has dropped > significantly....and that she is now leading him according to the latest > gallup poll. I don't know if I can "believe" these polls, as I said, they are > not a great way to present reality but a good number of polls have been > somewhat accurate. > However, that is not my main point here. Just a week or two ago, both > Hillary and Obama were leading McCain, if ever so slightly (yes even Obama was > only slightly beating McCain in national polls...McCain holds a lot more > weight than the media actually shows, don't believe all you see!). The newest > polls shows BOTH Obama and Hillary losing to McCain now. Hillary is closer to > creeping up on McCain's lead but still BOTH are losing, according to National > Polls. > Now as I said, polls are not the be all, end all. But just the fact that > such a thing is being reported makes my skin crawl (as this was never shown in > any polls previously). Could it actually be President John McCain afterall? > That is a horrible idea to me. Oh man. President John McCain? That makes me > cringe folks. So it seems...Obama is not the ultimate guy to "beat" McCain > afterall, as he doesn't have a great lead over him (no lead apparently now and > never actually had a great lead over him). No more argument saying Hillary > could never beat out McCain as far as I'm concerned making Obama the "prime > choice." Nobody is the ultimate person to beat him it seems. He's gaining > more momentum...though the media doesn't care to focus on him. > -Monika, disturbed by the idea of McCain as Pres > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:06:42 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: Hadn't heard this one before... March 20, 1968: Eric Clapton, Richie Furay, Jim Messina and Neil Young are all arrested at Joni Mitchell's house on charges of possessing marijuana. http://rockmine.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/today-in-music-march-20th/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:02:20 -0400 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: now, bi racial Obama, njc Randy wrote, >Why is Obama considered black? He is half white. Good point, Randy and one that I have been thinking about. (For example, If someone is both Italian and Polish and happens to have the name Rizzo does that mean she is italian. . is she defined by one feature?) Barak Obama's heritage is influenced by his mother's culture and his father's culture ( his WHOLE family's culture) To call any mixed race person simply "black," is to speak in an incomplete way. Our new governor (of NY) David Patterson is considered our first black (and blind) governor. But look at him. He is very light skinned. Clearly he is of mixed race. He is called black also. hmmmm . . . .. I believe a good term is bi-racial. . . (or perhaps mixed). (tri racial quatro racial cinco racial. . .. . ) Marianne ~ _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:02:24 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC Obama Deb wrote: > And my husband (who I suspect is a closet Obama guy) wonders how many > Christians denounce the subtle anti-semitism they routinely hear from > the pulpit - especially at this time of year. Just about ... none of them. In fact, not that they realize how insulting it is (although some must realize it), most Christians are planning to have a big HAM for Easter dinner. I know my family in Ohio is planning that. Let's eat HAM to celebrating the resurrection of Jesus, who was a Jew. Hmm. I don't observe Easter, other than to watch the neighbor's grandkids run around looking for eggs in their grandparents' vineyard. Very adorable, in a very Norman Rockwell sort of way. But about Obama, here is my latest favorite commentary about him. Listen to the entire clip (which begins with commentary about that idiot Sally Kern), or slide over to minute 2:22 ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n9Z2m3IeI0 Call me a racist if you want, but that's some seriously funny stuff! Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:15:23 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: ncj, Ev'rybody's talking 'bout Minister, when all we are saying.... (C'mon) Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout Minister, Sinister, Banisters and Canisters, Bishops, Fishops, Rabbis, and Pop Eyes, Bye bye, Bye byes All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance (Let me tell you now) Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout Revolution, Evolution, Masturbation, Flagellation, Regulation, Integrations, mediations, United Nations, congratulations All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance And if this gives you an earworm, I have no regrets, Coyotes! Love & Peace, Patti (& John) _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/ZuneADay/?locale=en-US&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Mobile_Zune_V3 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:21:12 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: re; NJC Obama - call for dialogue From: waytoblue@comcast.net : > However, his big problem (or could be big problem which we already see > on this list) is that he didn't denounce his Pastor completely. That > could very, very easily work against him and I can't blame anyone for > feeling strongly about that. The man (the pastor) is still a racist no > matter what amount of love he brings to people in church..or what he > does. If you say something racist, you're racist. It doesn't matter what > you do or what sort of a person you normally are. You're racist. > Simple as that. >But it's not that simple. That doesn't completely define him as a person. I can talk about how much I love the Red Sox but that doesn't completely define who I am. I am a Red Sox fan, yes, but there is a lot more to me. Victor Whoa!!!!!! Please do me a favour first .... tell me what was said by Wright that was 'racism'?????? B from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:39:52 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Hadn't heard this one before... And Joni herself wasn't? Strange... - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Les Irvin Skickat: den 20 mars 2008 17:07 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Hadn't heard this one before... March 20, 1968: Eric Clapton, Richie Furay, Jim Messina and Neil Young are all arrested at Joni Mitchell's house on charges of possessing marijuana. http://rockmine.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/today-in-music-march-20th/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:01:53 +0000 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: Hadn't heard this one before... NJC Hmmm and also on this date, Gloria Estefan fractures a vertebrae.... The band change their name to Gloria Estefan and The Life Support Machine. Bad taste, I know.... Zooby > > March 20, 1968: Eric Clapton, Richie Furay, Jim Messina and Neil Young are > all arrested at Joni Mitchell's house on charges of possessing marijuana. > > > > http://rockmine.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/today-in-music-march-20th/ > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Facebook me! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:50:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: SV: Hadn't heard this one before... Perhaps one of the guys took Joni's pot and the blame for it? Anyhow, I believe this was the time where Stephen Stills was present but when the cops came in he somehow snuck through a window and avoided arrest. I believe Neil Young was very, very angry about Stephen's move. -Monika Marion Leffler wrote: And Joni herself wasn't? Strange... - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Les Irvin Skickat: den 20 mars 2008 17:07 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Hadn't heard this one before... March 20, 1968: Eric Clapton, Richie Furay, Jim Messina and Neil Young are all arrested at Joni Mitchell's house on charges of possessing marijuana. http://rockmine.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/today-in-music-march-20th/ - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:54:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: now, bi racial Obama, njc Yes, that's true. He is bi-racial. Basically, I think, the only reason he is considered "black" is because he looks black. Just as someone like Mariah Carey (who is half black) is considered "white" because she looks white....or Halle Berry is considered "black" because she looks like she is (she too is bi-racial). -Monika Marianne Rizzo wrote: Randy wrote, >Why is Obama considered black? He is half white. Good point, Randy and one that I have been thinking about. (For example, If someone is both Italian and Polish and happens to have the name Rizzo does that mean she is italian. . is she defined by one feature?) Barak Obama's heritage is influenced by his mother's culture and his father's culture ( his WHOLE family's culture) To call any mixed race person simply "black," is to speak in an incomplete way. Our new governor (of NY) David Patterson is considered our first black (and blind) governor. But look at him. He is very light skinned. Clearly he is of mixed race. He is called black also. hmmmm . . . .. I believe a good term is bi-racial. . . (or perhaps mixed). (tri racial quatro racial cinco racial. . .. . ) Marianne ~ _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:56:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: what's race got to do with it? NJC question : what's race got to do with it? answer: everything. Mags - --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail - - --------------------------------- Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:07:27 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: obama njc Kate wrote, and I *so* loved it that I'm gonna tell you again now if you're still listening there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU I was very impressed with his speech. First, I am impressed that he chose to give it, second that he wrote it himself (many candidates do not), & of then I am impressed with the speech itself. Obama continues to strike me as someone with incredible integrity & courage & a very deep intelligence. His mind is that of an alchemist. He took the politically risky road, addressed a very difficult subject honestly while reaching for inspiration. BTW, I think many who have criticized Obama don't really GET how much of that speech was aimed towards those who like his pastor, have deep seated anger about the past. He was challenging them to move forward & away from that anger. I am continually amazed by many of his viewpoints because many are ones I've held dearly inside my heart for a long time. I just never ever expected anyone running for president of this country to address some of the ideas that he does in the way he does. God, if only we'd had the kind of leadership following 9/11 that said it is imperative to address the root of anger! Instead of the toddler cartoon viewpoint of the world as good guys vs evil guys. In his speech I heard him continually denounce his pastors viewpoints but not the man. That is the deepest wisdom. If each person could embrace that view, wow, what a place this world would be. ******** Applause, applause!!!! I'm Patti Parlette and I approve this message of Kate's. The day of the speech, my friend Franco called, in tears. He's a professor of Italian literature, a scholar in humanities. He said: "Finally! A candidate who candidate who can WRITE! And THINK! What greatness! What humility!" People I have talked to around campus keep using the word "brilliant". I just find him so refreshing. Especially compared to the endless delusional or deliberately lying crocks of MERDE that come out of Bush and Cheney's mouths day after day for seven freakin' years, and esp. yesterday when Bush said it's all been worth it and strategic VICTORY and whatever else he said that I can't even think about now or my head will explode. Just my two cents. I don't want to piss anybody off. No pee pee for PP, please! Love, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Watch Cause Effect, a show about real people making a real difference. Learn more. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:16:25 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: Re: NJC Obama - call for dialogue From: Monika Bogdanowicz To:Barbara Stewart Date: 3/20/08 3:26 PM Subject: [OFFLIST] Re: re; NJC Obama - call for dialogue you'll find my comments on your arguments below. let's start with who I am: a 58 yr old white librarian. I am not an Obama supporter. I have grave reservations regarding his wanting to keep troops in Iraq, and problems with his proposals for universal health care, etc. - - frankly, tho I may or may not agree with the delivery, much of what is reported as Wright's statements I can understand or even agree with - am I a "racist", against my own race? > He basically has said things (both racial and controversial) dividing whites and blacks by saying such things like "Aids started as a U.S. govt. plot to wipe out people of color"........... that is not in fact a quote from Wright - evidence not all in yet on source of the AIDS virus - there is a documentary I saw on Sundance that points to a pharma lab / clinic in Africa where they think it might have been first seen that argues that though scientists did whistleblowing at the time it was ignored or covered up by the powers that be - sorry I can't recall title offhand - we just don't know if corporate or govt knew about its generation - we do know that the Reagan administration vilified gay AIDS victims and refused to finance research or take social welfare measures for years >he had compared the U.S to the KKK..... well the historical facts are that the KKK IS American, and that it was tolerated even on official levels in the US for decades - were you around for the years of the genesis of the civil rights mvmt? Are you aware of the number of national politicians (DC) who supported and spoke in the same terms/language as the KKK? they were never denounced while in office - they held power and legislated in this country, sometimes holding their seats for decades - so how can the US not admit that the KKK was part of its legacy of institutionalized racial discrimination? >said God ought to damn America for its racism... here's something bound to get you angry: when I was watching the films of what was happening in New Orleans for well over a week while the gov't did nothing to very little, and the media started the false accusations of wild raping blacks running the streets of New Orleans, I was sitting in front of my TV saying the same - "God damn America for doing this, god damn Bush" with more outrage than the Wright tapes showed - I still feel the same way about it >he said America was creating a racist society which would never elect a black President (apparently not true, eh?) give the quotes - to 'summarize' what you understand to be his remarks is intellectually suspect - it is interpretation, not reportage nor argument ...he is an avid supporter of Louis Farrakhan who has even more controversial/racial/anti semitic views (calling Jews bloodsuckers and saying the entire Jewish religion is a gutter) he is a Methodist!!!!! not a Black Muslim!!! - where did this come from??? - again: give me the quotes, not what you may have heard reported about what he said >....he has blamed "white arrogance" on the problems of America...always speaks about "white america" and what they do against everyone LOL! The mass media speaks in terms of 'black America' and 'white America'!!!! Listen to any of the commentators on the news reporting on the demographic projections of primaries and polls, etc! Is this or is this not a historically racially divided country? Was there slavery in this country or not? Was there systematic discrimination on the basis of skin colour (and religion, and immigration origin) in this country for decades? It is historically documented. I am secure that you are intelligent and well educated enough to understand and know this. So let's go beyond it: is it not true that the social, economic and political implications of generational and institutionalized racism mean that a) there are still remnants of discrimination, overt and covert, and b) that those policies/attitudes created conditions that until very recently (in my adult lifetime) excluded blacks from good jobs, free access to housing in any neighbourhood, porportional presence in higher education, etc etc? IE: that in the lifetime of blacks living today there have been actual or remembered instances of suffering racial discrimination? Who is responsible? A dominant white population. That's simply fact. That you as an individual may not have ever done anything that could be construed as victimizing someone on the basis of race does not belie the generalization that whites were responsible, guilty of and benefitting from racism. Another tack: have you ever generalized, saying "men are sexist" or something similar? Why is Wright's statement any different? It is not racism per se - it is acknowledging that divide. >...he considers black people "the chosen people" And Jewish religious refer to themselves in the same way. And I recall preachers from my childhood saying the same about the Christians. It is a rhetorical flourish or at worst a self-affirmation. So what? What's new? Why when he says it, it is 'racist'? >...separates "black" values from "middle class white" values..(whatever that is) again - watch your TV - this is the terminology and framework of everyday mass media discourse >...and one thing that is more controversial than racial--saying America was to blame for the 911 attacks (only days after the attacks)...bringing it on themselves... He most definitely did NOT say that!! Again you offer interpretive comment as if it were the actual content of his remarks! Who DID say that was Pat Robertson, and other right evangelical leaders. They said because American was morally bankrupted by feminists and gays. Wright actually said that after years of the US invading and bombing populations in other countries (which one sees in context is preceded by his opposition to an agressive foreign policy of military intervention abroad) for the first time it has been experienced here in the 9/11 attack. And further he is aligning himself with the 'blowback' theory (first put out there by the CIA itself, and examined in many mainstream books on foreign policy) that it was the decades of actions of the US abroad that generated the radical social movement in the Mideast that gave birth to Al Qaeda. ie: that our actions in the past had consequences. "Chickens come home to roost" has precisely that meaning. Now that is certainly not the Bush administration explanation for the 'why' of 9/11, but it is a broad current of thought in academic, political and foreign policy circles, both here and abroad. It isn't 'crank' theory, but a part of well reasoned and documented policy alternatives. To criticize American foreign policy does not make one un- or anti-American, but in fact a thinking patriot. This is a democracy after all. > Anyway, I figured I'd send you this offlist as to not offend anyone or spur on chatter about all these comments. These comments have been made public though...check YouTube....and apparently Wright talking about black people as "the chosen people" is just a regular day in his church.. - -Monika. As you began the discussion to the list, where I responded to your comment, I am sharing our exchange with the list. I will not contribute further, but since I was taken aback by your initial comments, and it is a huge topic of current affairs, the discussion should be concluded on the list as opposed to privately. No flaming please. A reasoned discussion or none at all. B ==================== Barbara Stewart wrote: Whoa!!!!!! Please do me a favour first .... tell me what was said by Wright that was 'racism'?????? B from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ( http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HD tDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ) from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #614 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------