From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #612 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, March 19 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 612 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Tenement Castle ["Kate Bennett" ] JMDL retrospective NJC ["Vince Lavieri" ] Re: 80s music njc [Lucy Hone ] Re: Previous elections (SJC at the end) ["Vince Lavieri" ] Anthony Minghella dies njc ["Vince Lavieri" ] Re: Anthony Minghella dies njc ["Vince Lavieri" ] RE: The Seeding of Summer Lawns, P.S. about vigils tomorrow njc [Sherelle] njc [Marianne Rizzo ] Re: JMDL retrospective NJC [David Eoll ] NJC Obama [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Previous elections (SJC at the end) [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: NJC Obama [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: NJC Obama [Catherine McKay ] Re: Obama, Wright, the UCC njc [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Anthony Minghella dies njc [Jeannie ] Re: NJC Obama [Monika Bogdanowicz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:00:00 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: The Tenement Castle Hi Kenny, I frequented the Tin Angel back when I was in high school but sadly, it is no longer there. Kate >I've also walked by The Bitter End many times over the years (on Bleeker Steet) but don't remember seeing The Tin Angel. I think The Bitter End building is still there but I think the venue is gone< Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:15:43 -0400 From: "Vince Lavieri" Subject: JMDL retrospective NJC I think Vince was dismayed by his own not always keeping the peace... Actually the JMDL does quite well with political debates, in my opinion. Some highlights: Columbine, the NATO action against Serbia in support of Kosovo, the 2000 Presidential election, the post-2000 President election period, September 11th, the invasion of Afghanistan (I was one of the few against it), the 2002 elections, the invasion of Iraq, and the 2004 elections. (We were strangly more quiet on the 2006 elections.) Some other notable themes have been guns and gun control, rap music and my support (support? adoration and hero worship!) of Eminem, whether Brokeback Mountain was a good movie, and the most controversial thread title of all which was "Joni's pussy" (memory fails if that was actually about a cat but whatever it was about, it sure riled people up as a thread title, I think, rightly). We have always come through well, sometimes with some flames, but generally with a lot of learning and passion along the way. I hope we always engage in such discussions. There are a lot of well informed people here, even amongst those who do not agree with me (lol!). I have always used the discussions here as a gage of what educated, literate people are thinking. The fact that there are no one's opinions that I care more about than JMDLers is why I always have my membership here. Vince On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 2:23 AM, David Eoll wrote: > > > Having said that, I would like to echo Vince's dismay at the heat > getting turned up in a couple of recent posts about the campaigns. It > must be some of that anger that Monika warned us about. Lets try to > remember why we are here on this list and keep the discussions amicable. > I know I'm a relative newcomer and maybe its not my place to say, but > ... I'm just saying: let's keep it friendly or drop the political > discussions altogether. There are scads of other forums on the Internet > for that kind of thing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:24:23 +0000 From: Lucy Hone Subject: Re: 80s music njc Hi Kakki..... 60's music? I will forgive you your typo...I don't think XTC were born in the 60's! Well as fans of Joe you will be pleased to know that Joe has retained his roots in the South of England, has a beautiful flat in Southsea with exquisite sea views, and comes home regularly. I know because I am still in touch with his best friend, who was Nick's best friend, who lives in his flat when he is away.. Mark and Joe go back to the 60's as friends and musicians and were both on the same record lable A and M at one point. Joe and Mark lived on the outskirts of Portsmouth. I think it was Paulsgrove but it might have been Porchester (they are next door to each other). I could phone Mark to check but it hardly matters. I am sure some fan site or Wikidpedia will have the facts that fans like. I got together with Nick in 1982 when he was an A and R man and product person for Pye Records which later became PRT records...I have met so many oddly famous people through this time it is silly really. (the Imagination days were so wierd)....... and got to know Mark then. Nick had to give up that job to take over the family jewellers in 1985. Joe was making big noises musically from before I met Nick and did move to New York, that is true... and I know that he lived there a lot but left there about 4 years ago. This must seem like a "story" Kakki, but it is the truth. His apologies to Nick's sister for not being able to attend the funeral are in a beautiful card - apparently. A number of occasions during my time with Nick he had all sorts of people play with his band. Joe came a few times, Spike Edney (who had been with Nick in their years of backing people such as Edwin Starr, Marvin Gaye and Ben E King and who went on to be with Queen for years) regularly played. We also had Rabbit Bundrick live with us in his times of not being allowed to play with the Who (oh boy do I have some stories from that time). Roger Taylor from Queen had to come along one sunday night as Spike (who was Rogers paid companion at that time) was playing and Roger had to accommodate Spike on that occasion. Small pub, bemused locals...very funny.. Ian Duck, (who had been Elton John's guitarist from the Tumbleweed Connection days and still a dear friend to me) was a close friend of Nick's and mine and remained friends to us both. I also used to sing with the band as back up but only on certain occasions and my drumming on Rawhide was something not to be missed!!! Nick had always been in the music scene as his cousin Mike (Hugg) was drummer for Mannfred Mann and Nick learned harmonica from Paul Jones. At Nick's funeral his band, and other friends played some of his favourite songs before the coffin arrived. It was the same day as the opening night of the local music festival. Nick had always supported the headliners with his blues band and the year before had been his last one, he knew this and so did the crowd. It was poignant. So loved was Nick in this town that the headline group (I think it was one of the incarnations of Marmalade or Mungo Jerry or some other 60's - -70's band) took Nick's spot, and allowed the tribute to Nick to close the show. An hour and a half of about 36 of the musicians with whom he had played since he had his first band at 11. Graham Mabey and Dave Houghton, both of whom have played with Joe on a regular basis in the past and more recently were on stage. It was an amazing night to recognise Nick's place in local music history and his place in the lives of others who had really gone a long way in the wider and more exuberant world of music. It all ended with "Knocking on Heavens door" lighters held aloft in the crowd, me, Nicks first wife her two children (my step kids) and my Sam and Liz all on stage singing with the band. The crowd singing fit to burst and huge video screens overhead on stage playing footage of Nick from the previous year.. Sorry I have rambled but I think most people I know somewhere along the line have their connections with famous people in the music scene, it is like that. I just don't look on those I know well as anything other than friends who do a job and it has no reflection on me as a person, I just happen to know them. Joe is someone I met a few times but I know his best friend so I am up to date more so than others. Gosport where I live is a funny seaside town but there are quite a number of famous people who have done musical things who came from here. Nat Gonella who was a trumpeter in the 40's and 50s lived and died here and when he died they had this enormous New Orleans style funeral with a huge band winding its way around the town to the graveyard. Nat's bench is about 500 yards from my home and we have Nat Gonella square in town! Enough I need to get on with the day I hope you can up date your friends who are fans of Joe with the news. Lucy kbhla@fastmail.fm wrote: > Lucy, > > What a great story that you and your ex-husband were friends with Joe > Jackson! You should know this bit was the main topic of conversation > tonight with my neighborhood friends who also are fans of him and > Joni. We all had previously thought he was a New Yorker! Thanks and > I love your 60s music choices, too! Kakki > >> JOe JAckson was a really good mate of my late ex husband. Joe is a >> local man and is such a lovely guy. I met him a few times and he is >> such a brilliant pianist. He still has a house near mine which a >> friend >of mine lives in when Joe is on tour or living in Berlin, >> which he does a lot. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:26:07 -0400 From: "Vince Lavieri" Subject: Re: Previous elections (SJC at the end) A tiny correction, lovingly offered, sorry David. Chicago by Graham Nash was not written about Chicago 1968, it was written in response to Chicago 1969, the Conspiracy 8 later 7 Trial. The image of Bobby Seale being gagged and chained to a chair by Judge Julius Hoffman is one of the stark images of the song, written about the trial which began in September 1969. I recently saw Chicago 10 at the Landmark in Chicago, 2828 N Clark, now anyone in Chicago has no excuse not to go see that amazing documentary. Almost all of the footage was never seen before, and the trial is portrayed with the actual transcripts. This is your must see movie of the year if you are anywhere near Chicago. Vince On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 1:39 AM, David Eoll wrote: > A great song about Chicago 1968 is Chicago (We Can Change > the World) by Graham Nash on his first solo album Songs For Beginners. > Its a fantastic record. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:48:34 -0700 From: Subject: Re: 80s music njc Hi Lucy, > Hi Kakki..... 60's music? I will forgive you your typo...I don't think XTC > were born in the 60's! No, I meant that old 60s album compilation you wrote about the other day! Some of my fave songs and artists were on it - including the Zombies ;-) What a fabulous narrative you have written! You should be writing a book - you have wonderful memories. > This must seem like a "story" Kakki, but it is the truth. Oh no, I thought it was the truth! Sometimes I think of archaic meanings when choosing my words (think it stems from going to old-fashioned schools when I was young). You got me worried so I looked "story" up in the dictionary and learned it doesn't always mean what I thought but one of the archaic meanings is that it is a root of of the word "history." Your own personal (and real) history. At any rate, this is amazing reading. I think you should send in a sort of monthly music column here - it's great! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:40:05 -0400 From: "Vince Lavieri" Subject: Anthony Minghella dies njc I have few details, I am rather shocked, he is two years younger than me. I loved his Talented Mr. Ripley and Cold Mountain. English Patient will always be his masterpiece. A true giant in cinema with his own vision. Rest eternal grant him O God and let light perpetual shine upon him. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:43:54 -0400 From: "Vince Lavieri" Subject: Re: Anthony Minghella dies njc more info from the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/movies/19minghella.html?ref=europe Anthony Minghella, 54, Director, Dies By DAVID CARR Published: March 19, 2008 Anthony Minghella, the British filmmaker who won an Academy Award for his direction of "The English Patient,"died Tuesday morning in London. He was 54. [image: Anthony Minghella in Pictures]Slide Show Enlarge This Image Phill Bray/Miramax Ralph Fiennes and Kristin Scott Thomas in "The English Patient," for which Anthony Minghella won the Oscar in 1997 for best director. More Photos > The cause was complications of surgery he had a week ago to treat tonsil cancer, said Leslee Dart, his publicist. The son of parents who made ice cream on the Isle of Wight, off the coast of England, Mr. Minghella used expansive tastes in literature and a deep visual vocabulary to make lush films with complicated themes that found both audiences and accolades. Mr. Minghella's films, which also included "Breaking and Entering"(2006), "The Talented Mr. Ripley"(1999) and "Cold Mountain" (2003), used a careful eye for cultural and historical detail to explore ways in which the dynamics of class often pushed people into corners that they had to fight or scheme their way out of. His gift for building fully realized worlds within worlds also found expression in opera. Mr. Minghella directed an acclaimed staging of "Madama Butterfly"in 2006, and he was commissioned by the Metropolitan Operato direct and write the libretto for a new work by the composer Osvaldo Golijov that was scheduled for the 2011-12 season. Mr. Minghella recently completed work on "The No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency," an adaptation of an Alexander McCall Smith novel, which was filmed in Botswana, in southern Africa, for HBOand the BBC as the pilot of a series. He worked as a writer and a director in both theater and television. Samuel Beckettwas a particular fascination; Mr. Minghella organized a star-studded tribute to Beckett in 2006. After his movie-directing debut in "Truly Madly Deeply,"a made-for-television production that was released theatrically in 1990, Mr. Minghella went on to adapt a number of novels for a series of well-reviewed films. In addition to winning the directing Oscar in 1997 for "The English Patient"  which garnered a total of nine Oscars, including best picture  Mr. Minghella also received an adapted-screenplay nomination. In 2000 his screenplay for "The Talented Mr. Ripley" was nominated as well. That same year Mr. Minghella joined a fellow director, Sydney Pollack, to form Mirage, an independent production company that concluded a three-year first-look deal with the Weinstein Company earlier this month. They collaborated as producers on a number of films and worked on each other's films as well. "He was interested in the magic," Mr. Pollack said. "Not fake magic, like hiding the ball under the cup, but real magic, the kind that occurs between people. Nowadays, everybody making movies wants to get the clothes off fast and the guns out quick, he was just the opposite. He was interested in the poetry, lavishing the viewer with story, and scope and richness. Look at what you got for your $12 ticket with Anthony." "There was a real authenticity to his work," Mr. Pollack added. "He made movies about the world that we live in, where stuff happened that no one could have anticipated." Mr. Minghella recently stepped down from his position as chairman of the British Film Institute, an organization that promotes making films in Britain. Anthony Minghella was born on Jan. 6, 1954, and grew up on the Isle of Wight, where his parents, immigrants from Italy, ran an ice cream factory. An outsider even in his native land, Mr. Minghella took on large historical issues in his work, like the human consequences of epic warfare in "Cold Mountain," about a soldier's journey across an American landscape battered by the Civil War. Closer to home, his film "Breaking and Entering" examined the interlocking lives of thieves and their victims in today's London, a place where he believed immigrants are less assimilated than tolerated. "But while we share the geographical space, we don't share much else," he said to The New York Times in 2006 in talking about the film, which was based on his first original screenplay since "Truly Madly Deeply." "We're not particularly well integrated. One of the curiosities can be the differences, rather than the similarities, between people walking down the street  differences in expectation and privilege, in wealth and opportunity. It's not tension or aggression, but a kind of guarded indifference. We coexist rather than create communities." Mr. Minghella's concern with seeing beyond roles assigned by hierarchy or education extended to the work itself. "Anthony was the opposite of the prissy, hysterical director," said Peter Gelb, general manager of the Metropolitan Opera. "He was calm and intelligent and persuasive, whether he was talking to a board member or a member of the stage crew." In what was viewed as a risky move at the time, Mr. Gelb chose Mr. Minghella to direct "Madama Butterfly," which opened the Met's 2006 season. Although Mr. Minghella was a trained pianist, he was an opera neophyte before the "Butterfly"product ion, which originated at the English National Opera in London. "Everyone here had every reason to be suspicious of him because they knew his opera credentials were limited," Mr. Gelb said. "But he set the tone at the first rehearsal  he told the people in the production that he wanted them to read the text to him before they sang a note. The message was clear, that they were not only opera singers, but actors as well." The subsequent production, which included blended cinematic elements (a series of movable screens) along with creative stagecraft (Cio-Cio-San's son was rendered as a puppet) pleased critics and audiences alike. Mr. Minghella is survived by his wife, Carolyn Choa, who choreographed the "Butterfly" production; his son, Max; his daughter, Hannah; his parents, Eddie and Gloria Minghella; his brother, Dominic; and three sisters: Gioia, Loretta and Edana. With a large, bald head, and a thick frame, Mr. Minghella had the physical affect of dockworker, but when he opened his mouth, it was clear he was an omnivorously literate person. "I can't think of a conversation that I had in the last five years that didn't include a reference about what book he was reading," said Scott Rudin, who produced a number of films with both Mr. Minghella and Mr. Pollack. "He was the first person to pick up the phone and talk about some amazing play he had seen in North London, and a few days later there would be a script on my desk." Mr. Pollack said the history of successful production collaborations between directors was so short as not worth measuring, but said that while he and Mr. Minghella often disagreed about particulars  "We fought plenty"  they had values in common. "We both know what was junk and what was good," Mr. Pollack said. "There were a lot of movies that we planned together and are now not going to be able to do. It's sad for me, but it's also too bad that people won't see those movies." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:02:18 +0000 From: Sherelle Smith Subject: RE: The Seeding of Summer Lawns, P.S. about vigils tomorrow njc Patti, I will be thinking of you as you put on this peace vigil my friend! I'm so proud of you! Sherelle> From: loveuconn@hotmail.com> To: joni@smoe.org; treegreen1@hotmail.com; sherellesmith@hotmail.com> Subject: The Seeding of Summer Lawns, P.S. about vigils tomorrow> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:39:10 +0000> > > Hi Loves:> > I don't know if I have got a thing that's unique and new (probably not), but I'm sharing it just in case:> > http://www.waxy.org/archive/2008/02/29/joni_mit.shtml> > Okay, I'm hopping back up on the peace train. One-track/clickety clack mind today. Still lots to do for the vigils tomorrow: arrange a party for the press, make signs & banners in this manner, go bring your good friends too, and YKTMBM (Joni-speak for "etc.")!> > Love,> > Patti P.> > P.S. Find a vigil near you:> > http://www.5yearstoomany.org/article.php?list=type&type=5> > (650 at that site)> > or > > moveon.org> > (861 at this one)> > > > _________________________________________________________________> Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power.> http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:11:55 -0400 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: njc enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZs4svzVX_4 fall in love today _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:05:38 -0400 From: David Eoll Subject: Re: JMDL retrospective NJC Vince Lavieri wrote: > and the most controversial thread title of all which was > "Joni's pussy" (memory fails if that was actually about a cat "That cat was best f*** I've ever had." - - Steve Martin Whether someone thinks of Steve Martin as an movie actor or as a stand-up comic is kind of an indicator or which generation one belongs to, eh? (he was a comic), David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:01:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: NJC Obama Alright, I will put my two cents in. I actually saw some of this speech live on tv. I missed the beginning in which Obama condemned his pastor's words but not the man himself. I was a little confused when I tuned in since at the bottom of the screen it said, "Obama talks about Rev. Wright, etc" and everything I was hearing at this point was yes, race and whites/blacks, but also in the bigger picture what Obama always talks about--hope, change, unity, etc etc. I thought this speech was pretty consistent with everything else he has said. So I must admit I was waiting for Obama to start talking about his pastor which he didn't at that point. Of course, they then had people talk about the speech on MSNBC and I had a conversation about it with the homecare health aid who comes in to take care of my Mom a few hours a day (who also watched the speech). So needless to say, I was filled on the details. I have a few things to mention here. First off, right after the speech, some lady on tv said this was "the most important speech since Martin Luther King Jr." Come on now. Please. Let's not even try and compare the two. MLK Jr. is MLK Jr. He was a great, great man...but not by words alone...by action and the movement he started rolling. He wasn't helping people while trying to get their vote... So let's move on, shall we? Secondly, overall as a regular speech, it was a good speech. As I said, consistent with what Obama talks about and what he stands for. However, his big problem (or could be big problem which we already see on this list) is that he didn't denounce his Pastor completely. That could very, very easily work against him and I can't blame anyone for feeling strongly about that. The man (the pastor) is still a racist no matter what amount of love he brings to people in church..or what he does. If you say something racist, you're racist. It doesn't matter what you do or what sort of a person you normally are. You're racist. Simple as that. You could be a cop, a nurse, a doctor, a reverend, save millions and millions of lives but if you say something racist, that still makes you a racist (and personally you go down in my book...and perhaps I avoid you as much as I can...I'm prejudiced against prejudiced people you see). I think Obama made a mistake in trying to address this whole Pastor debacle. Last but not least, I find it a little strange that the man who is so focused on words and a very good orator lets someone else's racist words go by so freely. "Words don't matter?" Right? Obama's been the guy who has been running his campaign on his speeches, his promises of change, his "words" so to speak and he lets that go by. Hmm. I don't think Obama himself is racist or anything like that. In fact, I think it is all a but silly to be tied to anyone else's words or actions other than your own. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to "speak" for me or to have to answer for someone else because he/she is close to me. But...as....sometimes people forget...this is a campaign and he is a public servant now. Ok I lied. I have one more thing to say. It was mentioned that black people can play the race card and that whites have to be oh so careful about what they say in order to not be considered racist. I agree with that. A bit ago, Bill Clinton was in trouble for saying that "black voters vote for Obama." That was considered racist (even though the majority do so it is true). Also, could you imagine if white people had "white history month?" People would be throwing KKK sheets at us! -Monika - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:06:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Previous elections (SJC at the end) I graduated High School in 2003 and I clearly remember doing speeches supporting Gore or Bush in 10th grade or perhaps 9th. Anyway, in 2004 I was out of high school, in college but I was not a citizen yet. That is why I could not vote for Kerry as I would have. -M David Eoll wrote: > From: Monika Bogdanowicz > Subject: NJC Previous elections > > I supported Kerry although I couldn't vote > I remember the Bush-Gore showdown back when I was in high school. I > was in 10th or 11th grade I'm puzzled, Monika, that you were in high school in 2000, yet were still unable to vote in 2004. Did you skip some grades? End the F***ing War, David NP: Graham Nash, Songs For Beginners. - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:10:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: NJC Obama - --- Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > Also, could you imagine if white people > had "white history month?" Every month is White History Month. A little less so in February. :/ ps: I wish people would quit comparing Obama to MLK as well. Its like calling Joni a folksinger. Maybe some overlap...but *not* the same.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:18:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: NJC Obama Right on. Or saying some new female singer is the "next Joni Mitchell" as has been said many times now...but there can only ever be one of anyone who is truly great. -M Em wrote: ps: I wish people would quit comparing Obama to MLK as well. Its like calling Joni a folksinger. Maybe some overlap...but *not* the same.... - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:29:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Obama - --- Em wrote: > --- Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > > Also, could you imagine if white people > > had "white history month?" > > Every month is White History Month. A little less so > in February. > > :/ > Yup. Gotta agree with that. When there are disadvantaged people in any society, for whatever reason, then any kind of equity program is supposed to assist in raising those people up so that they are truly equal to those members of society who have always enjoyed freedom, although they may not realize it. For those of us in North America, if you are white, male, straight, able-bodied, born here (in whichever country you live in), English-speaking, possibly Christian, then you have a lot of taken-for-granted freedoms that others who don't fall into those categories do not necessarily have. That's why we have such things as employment equity programs and Black History month. Maybe one day, she said hopefully, we won't need these things anymore because we will all have the same advantages. We will all have nice houses, decent schools and good jobs and plenty to eat, and no one will look down on us for colour of skin, financial situation, religion, education or lack thereof. I generally find black history, or any kind of history for that matter that doesn't dwell on white guys "discovering" things that other people already knew about, extremely interesting and I wish we had more of that stuff. Not meant to knock Monika, of course, because I think your question was asked with good intentions, but those kinds of questions are often asked by people who have all the advantages and therefore can't understand what it must be to not have those advantages. Catherine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:37:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Obama, Wright, the UCC njc Well I'm glad he and his church have done great good to help people but..still...nonetheless....it doesn't change the fact that he said racist comments. You say something racist you're still racist no matter what you have done. You can't use the past as an excuse to be angry at the country or at white people. Hell, I've never done anything to anybody because of their color or religion. Don't be angry at me because I'm white or because I'm this or that. I personally didn't want to go into Iraq or Afghanistan even. You know what I mean? That's all. -Monika Vince Lavieri wrote: A few comments on Rev. Jeremiah Wright. I know him. We belong to the same church body, the United Church of Christ. He is a very good man and an excellent pastor, a Christian prophet in our times. I would not have used the precise colorful language that he did - but damn, it was effective. He called out truth to power. I don't mind Senator Obama distancing himself as he did, his role is different. For me, what did Wright say that was so wrong? Our nation did support apartheid in South Africa, we did use nuclear weapons without blinking, we have been as a nation in the wrong many times and there are times a preacher must call nation, society, and culture to account. Wright said many things that need to be said. Wright has spoken strongly denouncing homophobia, by the way, and we in the UCC are the only mainline denomination that has made a stance for marriage equality. Wright has led the people of Trinity UCC into astounding generousity. They have funded new church starts in Chicago, in Gary, and now in Benton Harbor, Michigan. These are expensive propositions because it is not just a church in the white sense that is being started, but a church that deals with job training, education, building families, building community in places where hope has been lost. They have given millions - millions - for others. You might have heard of other members of Trinity UCC - Oprah Winfrey, the rapper Common are the two best known other than Senator Obama. To see a man's thirty year career in ministry be battered by a few youtube clips just really dismays me. Wright is a former Marine, a scholar of immense accomplishment, a man of the church. Taking out of context of even a particular sermon, but taking out of context a man's entire career a few snippets for youtube and judging him on that - very sad. Obama's speech was brilliant, and what we need of a political leader. He distanced from Wright as he needs to for reasons of the body politic, and has spoken eloquently on the reality of race in this country. I love him all the more for that. And I have admired Barack Obama for a long time - I began following his career in 1996. I put the Obama bumper sticker on the jeep in early 2007. I have such hopes for the good an Obama presidency will bring this nation. I also take a stand with my colleague Jeremiah Wright. Those who want to know more about Wright and Trinity UCC might look at ucc.org and you can also there find Obama's speech to General Synod 26 of the UCC, in Hartford last July, I was there and it was a wonderful speech. Jeremiah Wright is a charming man who always surprises when he preaches. The last time I heard him preach, April 2007, he began by singing Barbra Streisand's "The Way we Were." Anyone who has struggled with a congregation wanting to never change and to only live in the past, think about the words, how apt they were - he has a great voice by the way and had us all singing along. For those who see things in other perspectives, I pray that I may be loving and kind to you. There is some anger out in the church world - the African American pastoral community is none too pleased these days with the judgment that white Americans have made on what blacks can and cannot say in church, especially when things are taken out of context and not taken into account with the whole of the message which can not be conveyed in 5 minute youtube clips. Clergy in the UCC are a bit disturbed that one of our own is being attacked - for the same reasons. The UCC has been under much attack lately, our stance on the war in Iraq and other matters, some of long standing, leave us as America's oldest church body in our congregationalist roots, but not the most popular with the powers that be. The fact that UCC member Barack Obama spoke to the UCC General Synod has moved conservative forces to file IRS accusations against us; one of our own cannot speak at a church meeting? There is something out there called the Institute for Religion and Democracy that has long targeted the UCC and I find it not surprizing that just certain youtube clips have "suddenly" appeared. These are my overlong thoughts. I retire to pray for a spirit of love and peace as we approach the anniversary of the war. Forgive me all that I have said and done that has been been offered or received in such a spirit of peace. Vince - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:39:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Re: Anthony Minghella dies njc He was so young. I can't help but shed a few tears because he fought against so many hard rocks and powerful waves at all odds and made it his own, his way. I saw him being interviewed by Charlie Rose or one of those finer interviewee's show and was totally rocked out with Anthony Minghella. On the movie, Cold Mountain, there was this moving, powerful scene for me, when either the Yankees or Rebels fell down a side of the mountain and got caught into this large ravine and the so called "enemy" were kind of hesistant, imo, to shoot their fellow brothers and countrymen, stating killing them from such an easy vantage point was like being at a Thanksgiving "turkey shoot," when they let out thousands of turkies into a confined area to get killed for a banquet of goodwill, giving thanks for all one has. May Mr. Anthony Mingella rest now from all the goings-on of our planet. He was heaven sent to Earth from before the moment of his birth. Heavenbound as he did his duties for mankind right here on Earth Now he's Heavenbound through the Universe, be him English, Italian, Native-American or whatever. Jeannie ~One with One in the Universe My mind flies very high Your beauty has power That's as good as it gets, brother I can't ask for more. There's something about you~ ~~John Trudell~~ Vince Lavieri wrote: more info from the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/movies/19minghella.html?ref=europe Anthony Minghella, 54, Director, Dies By DAVID CARRindex.html?inline=nyt-per> Published: March 19, 2008 Anthony Minghellat-per>, the British filmmaker who won an Academy Award for his direction of "The English Patient,">died Tuesday morning in London. He was 54. aragraph>/obituaries/18cnd-minghella.ready.html', '18cnd_minghella_ready', 'width=465,height=420,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes')> [image: Anthony Minghella in Pictures]Slide Show Enlarge This Images/19minghella_CA0.ready.html', '19minghella_CA0_ready', 'width=520,height=543,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes')> minghella_CA0.ready.html', '19minghella_CA0_ready', 'width=520,height=543,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes')> Phill Bray/Miramax Ralph Fiennes and Kristin Scott Thomas in "The English Patient," for which Anthony Minghella won the Oscar in 1997 for best director. More Photos > The cause was complications of surgery he had a week ago to treat tonsil cancer, said Leslee Dart, his publicist. The son of parents who made ice cream on the Isle of Wight, off the coast of England, Mr. Minghella used expansive tastes in literature and a deep visual vocabulary to make lush films with complicated themes that found both audiences and accolades. Mr. Minghella's films, which also included "Breaking and Entering";124183;327653&inline=nyt_ttl>(2006), "The Talented Mr. Ripley"w>(1999) and "Cold Mountain" (2003), used a careful eye for cultural and historical detail to explore ways in which the dynamics of class often pushed people into corners that they had to fight or scheme their way out of. His gift for building fully realized worlds within worlds also found expression in opera. Mr. Minghella directed an acclaimed staging of "Madama Butterfly"5;64379;347531;30671;340837;307510;30672;329008&inline=nyt_ttl>in 2006, and he was commissioned by the Metropolitan Operaropolitan_opera/index.html?inline=nyt-org>to direct and write the libretto for a new work by the composer Osvaldo Golijov that was scheduled for the 2011-12 season. Mr. Minghella recently completed work on "The No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency," an adaptation of an Alexander McCall Smith novel, which was filmed in Botswana, in southern Africa, for HBO/index.html?inline=nyt-org>and the BBC as the pilot of a series. He worked as a writer and a director in both theater and television. Samuel Becketteckett/index.html?inline=nyt-per>was a particular fascination; Mr. Minghella organized a star-studded tribute to Beckett in 2006. After his movie-directing debut in "Truly Madly Deeply,"a made-for-television production that was released theatrically in 1990, Mr. Minghella went on to adapt a number of novels for a series of well-reviewed films. In addition to winning the directing Oscar in 1997 for "The English Patient"  which garnered a total of nine Oscars, including best picture  Mr. Minghella also received an adapted-screenplay nomination. In 2000 his screenplay for "The Talented Mr. Ripley" was nominated as well. That same year Mr. Minghella joined a fellow director, Sydney Pollack>, to form Mirage, an independent production company that concluded a three-year first-look deal with the Weinstein Company earlier this month. They collaborated as producers on a number of films and worked on each other's films as well. "He was interested in the magic," Mr. Pollack said. "Not fake magic, like hiding the ball under the cup, but real magic, the kind that occurs between people. Nowadays, everybody making movies wants to get the clothes off fast and the guns out quick, he was just the opposite. He was interested in the poetry, lavishing the viewer with story, and scope and richness. Look at what you got for your $12 ticket with Anthony." "There was a real authenticity to his work," Mr. Pollack added. "He made movies about the world that we live in, where stuff happened that no one could have anticipated." Mr. Minghella recently stepped down from his position as chairman of the British Film Institute, an organization that promotes making films in Britain. Anthony Minghella was born on Jan. 6, 1954, and grew up on the Isle of Wight, where his parents, immigrants from Italy, ran an ice cream factory. An outsider even in his native land, Mr. Minghella took on large historical issues in his work, like the human consequences of epic warfare in "Cold Mountain," about a soldier's journey across an American landscape battered by the Civil War. Closer to home, his film "Breaking and Entering" examined the interlocking lives of thieves and their victims in today's London, a place where he believed immigrants are less assimilated than tolerated. "But while we share the geographical space, we don't share much else," he said to The New York Times in 2006 in talking about the film, which was based on his first original screenplay since "Truly Madly Deeply." "We're not particularly well integrated. One of the curiosities can be the differences, rather than the similarities, between people walking down the street  differences in expectation and privilege, in wealth and opportunity. It's not tension or aggression, but a kind of guarded indifference. We coexist rather than create communities." Mr. Minghella's concern with seeing beyond roles assigned by hierarchy or education extended to the work itself. "Anthony was the opposite of the prissy, hysterical director," said Peter Gelb, general manager of the Metropolitan Opera. "He was calm and intelligent and persuasive, whether he was talking to a board member or a member of the stage crew." In what was viewed as a risky move at the time, Mr. Gelb chose Mr. Minghella to direct "Madama Butterfly," which opened the Met's 2006 season. Although Mr. Minghella was a trained pianist, he was an opera neophyte before the "Butterfly"77;7682;426728;254724;331170;226997;86333;86326;124261&inline=nyt_ttl>product ion, which originated at the English National Opera in London. "Everyone here had every reason to be suspicious of him because they knew his opera credentials were limited," Mr. Gelb said. "But he set the tone at the first rehearsal  he told the people in the production that he wanted them to read the text to him before they sang a note. The message was clear, that they were not only opera singers, but actors as well." The subsequent production, which included blended cinematic elements (a series of movable screens) along with creative stagecraft (Cio-Cio-San's son was rendered as a puppet) pleased critics and audiences alike. Mr. Minghella is survived by his wife, Carolyn Choa, who choreographed the "Butterfly" production; his son, Max; his daughter, Hannah; his parents, Eddie and Gloria Minghella; his brother, Dominic; and three sisters: Gioia, Loretta and Edana. With a large, bald head, and a thick frame, Mr. Minghella had the physical affect of dockworker, but when he opened his mouth, it was clear he was an omnivorously literate person. "I can't think of a conversation that I had in the last five years that didn't include a reference about what book he was reading," said Scott Rudin, who produced a number of films with both Mr. Minghella and Mr. Pollack. "He was the first person to pick up the phone and talk about some amazing play he had seen in North London, and a few days later there would be a script on my desk." Mr. Pollack said the history of successful production collaborations between directors was so short as not worth measuring, but said that while he and Mr. Minghella often disagreed about particulars  "We fought plenty"  they had values in common. "We both know what was junk and what was good," Mr. Pollack said. "There were a lot of movies that we planned together and are now not going to be able to do. It's sad for me, but it's also too bad that people won't see those movies." ~nj~ - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:53:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: NJC Obama Oh I understand what you're saying. But in a way by having all those things like affirmative action and black history month spurs inequality to linger or perhaps not linger so as much as throw it in your face that we're not all equal. I understand in a way sometimes things like that are needed to help but in many ways they harm...in the grand scheme of things. It is even difficult to assess and really try and change or accept. In the end, as you said, I wish we all were equal. It's very difficult to even think that racism is alive and well, even in 2008. Luckily, it is not as horrible as it was back in the days of segregation and so on. However, it is nice to see how welcoming America is to have a black man running for President. Although I have to mention something that I heard on the radio the other day. I was listening to an afternoon show and before going into commercials they always have "drive by comedy" playing clips of standup comics. Well this one guy was going on about how people are so happy that perhaps, just perhaps, finally a black man will be President. Equality is here! Etc etc. The comedian then said something like, "equality is here? We're 43 black Presidents away from equality!" I assure you it was much funnier when listening to it...sort of one of those you-had-to-have-been there moments. -M Catherine McKay wrote: Yup. Gotta agree with that. When there are disadvantaged people in any society, for whatever reason, then any kind of equity program is supposed to assist in raising those people up so that they are truly equal to those members of society who have always enjoyed freedom, although they may not realize it. For those of us in North America, if you are white, male, straight, able-bodied, born here (in whichever country you live in), English-speaking, possibly Christian, then you have a lot of taken-for-granted freedoms that others who don't fall into those categories do not necessarily have. That's why we have such things as employment equity programs and Black History month. Maybe one day, she said hopefully, we won't need these things anymore because we will all have the same advantages. We will all have nice houses, decent schools and good jobs and plenty to eat, and no one will look down on us for colour of skin, financial situation, religion, education or lack thereof. I generally find black history, or any kind of history for that matter that doesn't dwell on white guys "discovering" things that other people already knew about, extremely interesting and I wish we had more of that stuff. Not meant to knock Monika, of course, because I think your question was asked with good intentions, but those kinds of questions are often asked by people who have all the advantages and therefore can't understand what it must be to not have those advantages. Catherine - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #612 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------