From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #590 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, March 1 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 590 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni's Voice (smoking!) [missblux@googlemail.com] RE: Joni's voice [Michel BYRNE ] Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) [Victor Johnson ] Joni, smoking and more ["Oddmund Kaarevik" ] njc, Kalo mina! [Patti Parlette ] Joni and Stills (and Judy) [Patti Parlette ] Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) [KEVIN DOHENY ] njc, Kalo mina P.S. [Patti Parlette ] Women, njc [Laura Stanley ] Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) ["Some Millers" ] Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Hillary or Barack? njc [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Hillary or Barack, njc [Laura Stanley ] Re: O my what the Hill?, njc [Laura Stanley ] RE: Hillary or Barack, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Hillary or Barack, njc ["Randy Remote" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:47:42 +0100 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Joni's Voice (smoking!) Eric said: i feel like a broken record stating this yet again BUT i MUCH prefer joni's post Hejira voice ~ particularly post Night Ride Home. Me: Call me a broken record too, because I have said this before: my no 1 Joni album is Hejira, my no 2 is BSN, and I love BSN especially because first time I heard it I was so touched with her mature voice. The history in it! But I don't know what is wrong with saying that smoking damaged her voice. Yes, she says this is not so and that some sort of physical therapy fixed it. I don't hear any difference and wonder if she was given some sort of alternative treatment that she believed in but that didn't really work. What if she herself is not sure what is wrong with her voice but is fed up with everyone going on about it for the past fifty years which seems to be as long as she has smoked? I don't think she is above that sort of reaction. I tend to say that I don't like Travelogue because there are tracks on it that really annoy me. But then I put it on and there are tracks that are SO MOVING.... So I'm with you, some of the way! Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:24:07 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: RE: Joni's voice I'm with you on that one, Eric - though i wouldn't want to place joni in some league of greats. I can admire the range and warmth of her voice in the pre-Hissing records, but it doesn't get me in the pit of the stomach like her later voice - when i first heard the low notes of '(a night) like this' in NRH, i thought i was in heaven. And her 'low' versions of Case of You, Both sides Now and Last Time I Saw R, to me beat the originals hands down. What i loved about her high register is the way she could use it as a counterpoint to a lower melody - at its most spine-tingling in Song for Sharon. But like somebody said recently, when she tried the same sort of thing on Come in from the Cold, it sounded pained and strangled (fitting, for the song maybe, but painful to listen to). That said, though, the ease of her voice in the mid-70s is wonderful - on C&S, HSL and Hejira. I DO mostly like J's voice on Shine, but the vocal of This Place is to my ears painful and ugly - notes cutting half way, undefined wobbles - it does shock, as the first sung track on the album. No other track on Shine shows quite the same weakness, and I'm surprised she went for that take as the definitive one. What makes things unnecessarily frought in discussing the voice issue is Joni's own defensiveness verging on arrogance. Contrast how relaxed she was about it on the BBC Dog Eat Dog interview - freely admitting she was losing range, and joking that she might be reduced in her later years to talking her songs. Now instead she comes across as self-deluded and arrogant. Just my opinion! ... Regards to all. Mich > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 03:00:13 -0500 > From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org > To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #475 > > onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, March 1 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 475 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > NYT review of kd lang 2/29 ["Barbara Stewart" RE: Joni and Stills (and Judy) [KEVIN DOHENY ] > Tift Merritt sjc ["Richard Flynn" ] > Re: Tift Merritt sjc [Jerry Notaro ] > kd lang Variety review 2/29 ["Barbara Stewart" more on k d [Michel BYRNE ] > A Joni Fan on American Idol, SJC [rian afriadi ] > Joni's Voice (smoking!) [Eric Taylor ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:08:35 -0500 > From: "Barbara Stewart" > Subject: NYT review of kd lang 2/29 > > February 29, 2008 > Music Review > A Hardy Cowgirl Endures the Pain and Longing on the Trail to Love By > STEPHEN HOLDEN ( > http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/stephen_holden/i ndex.html?inline=nyt-per > ) > > A prairie wind swept through the Allen Room on Wednesday night as the > singer K. D. Lang ( > http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/k_d_lang/index.h tml?inline=nyt-per > )and a five-member band conjured big-sky country where romantic dreamers > infused the wide-open spaces with swooning desire. Listening to Ms. > Langbs languid interpretations of songs from her new album, > bWatershedb (Nonesuch), as well as selections from her older records, > an image surfaced of the singer as a hardy cowgirl, lost in reflection > as she leans on a fence post and gazes toward the horizon. > The concert was the second of Ms. Langbs three performances in Lincoln > Center ( > http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/l/lincoln_c enter_for_the_performing_arts/index.html?inline=nyt-org > )bs American Songbook series. As Ms. Lang pointed out, she is actually > Canadian. But records like bA Wonderful World,b her 2002 duet album with > Tony Bennett ( > http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/tony_bennett/ind ex.html?inline=nyt-per > ), in which they sing standards associated with Louis Armstrong ( > http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/louis_armstrong/ index.html?inline=nyt-per > ), have established Ms. Lang, 46, as one of the two or three great > under-50 interpreters of American popular standards. > Ms. Lang likes to take her time. Possessed of one of the worldbs most > beautiful and steady pop voices, she flexes her instrument like a sleepy > cat stretching on a carpet. As she unabashedly luxuriates in the sound > that she makes, her showmanship and sheer enjoyment of playing the diva > transform the angst and self-questioning of her lyrics into a personal > credo: If you can manage all that pain and longing, emotional turbulence > can be pleasurable. > As she savored Neil Young ( > http://movies.nytimes.com/person/1300573/Neil-Young?inline=nyt-per > )bs bHelplessb on Wednesday, the first syllable of the title became a > drawn-out cry of loneliness, the drums delineating a slow pounding > heartbeat, the pedal steel guitar evoking the wayward wind moaning > through the rafters of a barn. Equally impressive was her rendition of > bThe Valley,b her fellow Canadian Jane Siberrybs take on the 23rd > Psalm, which like bHelplessb comes from her previous album, bHymns of > the 49th Parallel.b This funereal folk-rock meditation built slowly from > a simple voice and piano introduction into a mighty oracular statement > by a pilgrim walking through the valley of the shadow of death. > Ms. Langbs excellent quintet included Grecco Buratto on guitar, Joshua > Grange on pedal steel guitar, Daniel Clarke on keyboards, Ian Walker on > bass and Danny Frankel on drums. All but Mr. Frankel supplied discreet > vocal harmonies. > The most accurate description of Ms. Langbs music is still the one she > applied to her 1989 album, bAbsolute Torch and Twang.b The torch part > comes from the dreamy side of Peggy Lee ( > http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/peggy_lee/index. html?inline=nyt-per > ), a North Dakota farm girl whose b60s ballad style remains the ne plus > ultra of a dreamy passivity. The twang comes from another Lang idol, the > country singer Patsy Cline ( > http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/patsy_cline/inde x.html?inline=nyt-per > ), in whom true grit battled heartbreak and won by a hair. In bWatershedb > the two aspects are boldly overlaid. The instrumental textures, > dominated by steel guitar are country-rock with a western tilt. Strings > playing long, flat lines supply a thread of urbanity. > Like most of Ms. Langbs songs, those on bWatershedb lack the grandeur > of bHelplessb or bThe Valley.b But their descriptions of desire and > ambivalence portray the vulnerable self-questioning introvert inside the > swaggering tomboy. In bFlame of the Uninspired,b she says: > My very nature is to criticize > And cut myself down to size > On the cusp of compromise > To living hell. > In another song she calls this gap between her inner turmoil and outer > confidence bshadow and the frame.b > If the old obsession with romantic love, expressed in bConstant > Craving,b the driving ballad that remains her biggest hit and which she > performed on Wednesday, still nags, she has acquired some perspective. > In the song bOnce in a While,b she laments, bLove beyond reason/Is a > love so hard to find.b She is not quite ready to abandon the search. > from : > Barbara L.Stewart, MLS > Library - Sesame Workshop > 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA > tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 > barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org > "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that > matter." - ML King > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:21:12 -0800 (PST) > From: KEVIN DOHENY > Subject: RE: Joni and Stills (and Judy) > > I was all excited seeing the subject hoping you could somehow meld together the careers of joni, steven and judy...garland..lol..Oh well collins is almost as great haha...The key to me knowing who plays on what is my undying love for liner notes(I know i am not alone)..I sometimes red them before I listen for the first time and re read them again and again in case I missed something...One of my favorite "discovery" came with Carole King's Will you love me tomorrow...The liner notes say backing vocals by the "mitchell-taylor upstairs downstairs choir" or something like that..I never gave it a second thought..until I listened closely and figured out it was Joni and James..Now when i listen to it I focus on the backing vocals more than the actual song..lol..the song is a classic and to hear joni on it makes it even better...So your homework tonight kids is to break out your joni records(LP's are easier to read) or cd's and read those liner notes...Hope all are well! XOXO Kev > > David Eoll wrote: Didn't know about Stills on Blonde In The Bleachers. In fact I'd never > really focused on the harmonies in that song. They are something else, > though, thanks for pointing them out. I'm only hearing Stephen sing the > "Very long"s near the end. The harmonies nearer the beginning of the > song sound like Joni's usual style of harmonizing with herself (I call > it the Joni quartet). But, I could be wrong. And the two electric > guitars (one in each channel) are unmistakably Stills. And once again, > I've listened to that album 1000 times and never noticed. Sheesh. > > Since there appear to be a few Stephen Stills fans on the list, I'd be > remiss if I didn't point out his fantastic accompaniments on Judy > Collins' album, Who Knows Where The Time Goes. He's all over that album > on bass and guitars. The standouts, for me, are Pretty Polly and First > Boy I Loved. The latter song, in particular, is just beautiful anyway, > and Stills plays wonderful fills throughout on electric. The last verse > is a reference to him (Judy and he were an item then), and he plays that > part with particular flair. :) > > Before I get off this sub-topic, I have to let you Stills fans know what > happened after Stills finished doing those sessions with Judy. He paid > the engineer a few hundred bucks to record some demos for him of some > songs he'd been working on. It was April 1968, so Buffalo Springfield > was in the process of disintegrating, and CSN had yet to come together. > But, three of the demos were of songs that ended up on the first CSN > album. About half a dozen others appeared on Stills first few solo > albums, including a couple songs from Manassass. This reel of demos > gathered dust for nearly 4 decades and recently surfaced and was > released as Just Roll Tape. If you're a Stills fan _at_all_, you simply > must check it out. Its rough in places, the levels are off, and the > guitar's not miked very well, but what the hell do you expect? They're > demos. And the man was on fire. > > Back to Joni and Blue. I knew that J.T. appears on that album, but I > was never sure where. Wiki says he's on "California", "All I Want", "A > Case of You". That certainly sounds like it could be him, but I'm not > nearly as familiar with his playing. My question is, I know he and Joni > had a relationship at some point. Is James appearance on Blue before, > after, or during that relationship? Anyone know? > > I'm glad I found this list. I love talking about music with other music > lovers almost as much as I love listening to music. Well, I guess > "almost" is a bit of a stretch. But, I do like discussing music. I'm > glad to be here. > > Toodles, > David > > > > - --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:33:05 -0500 > From: "Richard Flynn" > Subject: Tift Merritt sjc > > I liked Tift Merritt's first two records a lot, but I can't stop playing her > new one, "Another Country." In the liner notes and in interviews, she has > said that thematically it is inspired by Hejira. > > > > http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2008/02/24/2008-02-24_tift_me > rritt_knows_about_living_in_anoth.html > > > > "You try not to make your life parallel other artists'," Merritt says. "But > I couldn't help but think of the time [Joni] took her trips. I must have had > some of the same feelings." > > > > I LOVE this record and recommend it with great enthusiasm. > > > > Sample and read more about it at > > http://www.tiftmerritt.com/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:52:33 -0500 > From: Jerry Notaro > Subject: Re: Tift Merritt sjc > > Richard, > > Always been a Tift Merritt fan. Love her first album. Will have to get the > new one. Doesn't surprise me at all that she is "Joni inspired." > > Jerry > > > > I liked Tift Merritt's first two records a lot, but I can't stop playing her > > new one, "Another Country." In the liner notes and in interviews, she has > > said that thematically it is inspired by Hejira. > > > > > > > > http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2008/02/24/2008-02-24_tift_me > > rritt_knows_about_living_in_anoth.html > > > > > > > > "You try not to make your life parallel other artists'," Merritt says. "But > > I couldn't help but think of the time [Joni] took her trips. I must have had > > some of the same feelings." > > > > > > > > I LOVE this record and recommend it with great enthusiasm. > > > > > > > > Sample and read more about it at > > > > http://www.tiftmerritt.com/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:09:08 -0500 > From: "Barbara Stewart" > Subject: kd lang Variety review 2/29 > > http://www.variety.com/story.asp?l=story&r=VE1117936352&c=34 > Posted: Thurs., Feb. 28, 2008, 2:45pm PT > kd lang > (Allen Room; 550 seats; $100 top) Presented inhouse. Opened, reviewed Feb. 27, > 2008, closed Feb. 28. > > Band: kd lang, Grecco Buratto, Joshua Grange, Daniel Clarke, Ian Walker, Danny > Frankel. > > By DAVID SPRAGUE ( > http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=bio&peopleID=1357 ) > If there were still room on primetime television schedules for a good > old-fashioned variety show, the network exec who signed kd lang up for one > might well be rewarded with a left-field hit, judging by the flair she > displayed at this intimate warm-up gig advancing her upcoming North American > tour. > Not to say that lang is the next Carol Burnett -- although she did display > copious self-effacing humor. But the combination of stylistic dexterity, warm > wit and easygoing banter that permeated her 90-odd minutes onstage was > reminiscent of a vintage episode of the short-lived -- but much-loved -- skein > hosted by Johnny Cash. > The Canadian singer brought Cash -- and a slew of old-school country greats - -- > to mind when she bounded onto the stage, beaming, guitar slung over her > shoulder, to deliver a swooning rendition of "Upstream." That song, drawn like > much of the set from lang's just-released Nonesuch disc "Watershed," carried > numerous delayed-reaction emotional depth-charges. The multi-tiered approach > imbued the preponderance of the new material, a tenor lang explained -- -- in > introducing "Flame of the Uninspired" -- by rolling her eyes at "the laziness > of stopping at darkness as fodder for songwriting." > No such laziness reared its head at this perf, with lang proffering guitar > picks to lined-up aud members like a priest distributing communion and riffing > on everything from the sex appeal of her band members to her belief that the > banjo -- which she wielded credibly on "Jealous Dog" -- is "a chick magnet." > She showed equal aplomb in engaging the audience up close and personal, > leaving the stage to show off waltz-time dance steps as well as some > vaudeville-era hoofing. The nattily dressed singer delivered several of the > set's tunes from unexpected spots in the room, even parking herself at one > couple's table to sing a loungey "Smoke Rings." > While lang didn't reach into her back catalog often during the course of the > evening, she did tap the Canadian Songbook at regular intervals -- ironic, > given that the perf was presented as part of the venue's American Songbook > series. She put her individual stamp on several classics from her homeland, > including a gripping take on Jane Siberry's "The Valley" and a version of > Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" in which she used little more than pained > expression to convey the depth of despondency inherent in her interpretation. > As ever, lang's voice was pristine and remarkably supple, with woodsy baritone > notes giving way to keening trills reminiscent of her muse Roy Orbison. But > more than simply interpret songs, lang positively inhabits them, guiding > listeners through their dark corners with an all-too-rare loving care. > > ========= > > > from : > Barbara L.Stewart, MLS > Library - Sesame Workshop > 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA > tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 > barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org > "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that > matter." - ML King > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:20:20 +0000 > From: Michel BYRNE > Subject: more on k d > > This repeats what others have said, I know, but I saw k d on the first night > of her tour, in January in Glasgow (Scotland), and yes, she was breathtakingly > good. Her command of her voice just seems so effortless, and even when she > seemed to be improvising, her pitch and her phrasing were absolutely > faultless. I too was hoping she'd do Case of You or Jericho, but the three > canadian songs she did cover (Jane Siberry's The Valley, Neil Young's Helpless > and Cohen's Hallelluia) she totally made her own - the Young and Cohen in > particular were even better (much better, which I didn't think was possible) > than on the Hymns CD. She's obviously grown into them. > I'm not convinced she would have made as good a job of the joni songs, > especially Case of You. They're more of a risk with a live audience, in that > they're not 'catchy' or easy to get a grip on like Helpless and Hallelluia > are. > Must say too, she was superb with the audience. Glasgow folk don't like > silence - if there's a gap they'll fill it, and there was plenty heckling (all > friendly), but k d responded well, with humour and good grace. > I'd recommend to anyone to go and see her live. Unforgettable! > Mich > _________________________________________________________________ > Who's friends with who and co-starred in what? > http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:08:32 -0800 (PST) > From: rian afriadi > Subject: A Joni Fan on American Idol, SJC > > From the very first time i saw her singing Carole King's Beautiful, i knew she must be a fan of Joni. A Carole fan must be a James Taylor fan must be a Joni fan must be a Carly Simon fan. > > Then she sang a Carly's song... > > So, i checked americanidol.com to find her info. > > And yes, she is a Joni fan. > > And she is Brooke White. > > > Rian > NR. Mahatma Gandhi's Speeches. > > > _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 01:58:05 -0500 (EST) > From: Eric Taylor > Subject: Joni's Voice (smoking!) > > i feel like a broken record stating this yet again BUT i MUCH prefer joni's post Hejira voice ~ particularly post Night Ride Home. > > i find most Joni fans prefer her pre Hissing Of Summer Lawns. > > There seems to be a great divide over this album so just let me state that it is unquestionably my least favorite of all Joni albums (although i LOVE Sweetbird) > > Apparently i am among the very few fans who joniphiles who thinks she just keeps better with each album. > > i LOVED Dog Eat Dog & Chalkmark when they came out! Night Ride Home made me realize we are dealing with a genius not seen since Yeats. b u t Turblent Indigo convinced me that our world has NEVER witnessed an artist quite like Joni. > > Obviously i am in the vast majority for absolutely ADORING Travelogue. > > SHINE propels me to conclude she is our world's most original artist since Beethoven!!! > > May i just say that IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF that people "blame" Joni's latest greatest vocals on cigarettets! > > MY GOD she only sounds warmer & better with every album > > Apparently i am the only JMDL member who appriciates Joni's latest music more than ever before (pleae prove me wrong people!) > > i could quote Joni from MOJO on the 'stupidity' & 'ignorance' of people who blame her deeper voice on tobacco but ARE u too lazy to read it??? > > All i can say is that Joni BY FAR is the most important artist since daVinci..... > > The big question is: would u want to sound the same way u did 40 years later? > > i can't blame Biz & Joplin for wanting to break her leg > > Our Joan IS surviving HISTORY unfolding soooo beautifully & i am SO grateful that i am aware of what a HUGE contribution she continues to make! > > IS EVERYONE STUCK IN THE 70's?????? > > It's SAD to see that everyone seems to judge Joni by her early folk stuff. > > i am a Joni fan who appriciates her music more with every album > > Not lying! > > > ET > > > NP: > > ------------------------------ > > End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #475 > ********************************* > > ------- > Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- > Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm) _________________________________________________________________ Telly addicts unite! http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 07:07:40 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) On Mar 1, 2008, at 1:58 AM, Eric Taylor wrote: > > May i just say that IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF that people "blame" > Joni's latest greatest vocals on cigarettets! > > MY GOD she only sounds warmer & better with every album > > Apparently i am the only JMDL member who appriciates Joni's latest > music more than ever before (pleae prove me wrong people!) > > i could quote Joni from MOJO on the 'stupidity' & 'ignorance' of > people who blame her deeper voice on tobacco but ARE u too lazy to > read it??? > Why are you bringing this up again? Yes, someone's voice will change naturally as they age. And yes, smoking cigarettes constantly affects the voice as well. That's not an opinion, its a fact. If you talk all day and shout a lot that will affect your voice. It's a very delicate instrument that needs to be taken care of. To claim anything to the contrary is ignorant. Both are factors, period. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:50:57 +0100 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: Joni, smoking and more Hi Eric ! No, you're not the only one preferring the old Joni, and the Joni with the smoky voice. No, you're not the only one finding "Travelogue" a beautiful piece of work. No,you're not the only one preferring the later Joni to the helium-Joni of the late 60's and early 70's. No, you're not the only one who has read and appreciated the Joni interview in Mojo. I absolutely loved it. Joni can sometimes strike me as so clearsighted in interviews. I loved the part Monica reffered to, where Joni speaks about her music as a river, everchanging. I loved the story when Joni learnt what spekaing the truth my lead to (Half-empty church) I also loved to read the commentary of Joni's albums at the end. And no I'm not blaming Joni for smoking and "destroying" her voice. Joni's voice is beatiful as evers, imo. But, I believe Kay has a good point when she is stating that Joni is in deep denial, when she doesn't admit that smoking has done anything with her singingvoice whatsover. I can hear the smoke when she sing, to me it's beautiful, but yes it pisses someone off. I 've also been heartbroken by people on the list loving the 70's material only and dissing everything new (esp. Travelogue, TTT and also CMIRS) But, hey it's a free world. You love the new stuff, some love the old. I think it's great the we have different opinions, can discuss and live with the disagrrement. But I understand that vulnerable feeling of being a loving and enthusiastic minority. And I cherish your enthusiasm Eric. Your Love for Shine and other Joni music has been richely spread out to the list, and count me as one for someone appreciating it. But don't take people's lack of suport for your personal statements as an attack on you. The just don't agree. Doesn't mean they don't like you or appreciate you, that is what I've lived and learned here, on in my fourth year on the Joni Mitchell discussion list. Shine on Eric. You're not alone ! Love ! Oddmund, Norway NP: Jane Siberry: Are we dancing now (Map III) i feel like a broken record stating this yet again BUT i MUCH prefer joni's post Hejira voice ~ particularly post Night Ride Home. i find most Joni fans prefer her pre Hissing Of Summer Lawns. There seems to be a great divide over this album so just let me state that it is unquestionably my least favorite of all Joni albums (although i LOVE Sweetbird) Apparently i am among the very few fans who joniphiles who thinks she just keeps better with each album. i LOVED Dog Eat Dog & Chalkmark when they came out! Night Ride Home made me realize we are dealing with a genius not seen since Yeats. b u t Turblent Indigo convinced me that our world has NEVER witnessed an artist quite like Joni. Obviously i am in the vast majority for absolutely ADORING Travelogue. SHINE propels me to conclude she is our world's most original artist since Beethoven!!! May i just say that IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF that people "blame" Joni's latest greatest vocals on cigarettets! MY GOD she only sounds warmer & better with every album Apparently i am the only JMDL member who appriciates Joni's latest music more than ever before (pleae prove me wrong people!) i could quote Joni from MOJO on the 'stupidity' & 'ignorance' of people who blame her deeper voice on tobacco but ARE u too lazy to read it??? All i can say is that Joni BY FAR is the most important artist since daVinci..... The big question is: would u want to sound the same way u did 40 years later? i can't blame Biz & Joplin for wanting to break her leg Our Joan IS surviving HISTORY unfolding soooo beautifully & i am SO grateful that i am aware of what a HUGE contribution she continues to make! IS EVERYONE STUCK IN THE 70's?????? It's SAD to see that everyone seems to judge Joni by her early folk stuff. i am a Joni fan who appriciates her music more with every album Not lying! ET NP: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:55:36 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Kalo mina! Kalo mina! That's what a redneck on a Grecian isle says on the first day of a new month. Happy New Month! Let's hope it's a good one, without any fear. Here in the U.S. it's the beginning of an interesting month on the campaign trail (this Tuesday will tell us a lot) and for some who enjoy it, the beginning of March Madness (college basketball championships). Today our men Huskies (ranked #15) play U West Virgina from (Morning) Morgantown at noon. On Tuesday our women play Rutgers, the only team who has beaten us this year. UConn women rule. Our women must have everything, our women must have everything! So good luck to Jimmy's Gators and Bob and Joseph's Tar Heels, and everyone else's teams and/or alma maters and presidential candidates. We'll try to keep the noise to a minimum or off-list ("these things that you and I suppress"), but sometimes the excitement comes spilling out into the streets here, so please bear with us. (Uh oh! Bear? TIC!) Black bear in the orchard At night he's in my garbage cans He's getting so bold but no one wants to shoot him He's got a right to roam this land. Kalo mina & bon weekend! Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:12:12 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: Joni and Stills (and Judy) Hi David in NH (isn't the snow pretty today?) and All: Since you have a mighty mighty thirst to know more about our friends (these troubadours who have acted out their parts, one could say!), I recommend this book in case you missed it: "Hotel California: The True-Life Adventures of Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young, Mitchell, Taylor, Browne, Ronstadt, Geffen, the Eagles, and Their Many Friends" by Barney Hoskyns Lots of Joni content (if I recall, even some chapter titles were some of her lyrics), and some good photos, to boot. I just ordered it as a birthday gift for an old h.s. friend (she went to Florida) and see that it's now out in paperback. Peace, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 05:31:36 -0800 (PST) From: KEVIN DOHENY Subject: Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) BRAVO! Eric! Well said man.. In fact I pretty much agree with everything you said..Except i love "Hissing" sooo much...You made my morning by comapring our girl to Davinci and Beethoven etc..She most certainly belongs in the same sentence as those giants...She is unique beyond compare although i don;t mind comparisons to the above mentioned artists..lol..As far as Joni's smoking/voice "change"...I look at it this way..We as Joni fans should consider ourselves lucky to be madly in love with an artist with such a diverse catalog..Like a fine wine getting better growing stronger(love cass elliot) with each album...To me Shine is just another in a long line of eye opening, soul stretching music...It was worth the wait for me for sure!! Thanks again man! Eric Taylor wrote: i feel like a broken record stating this yet again BUT i MUCH prefer joni's post Hejira voice ~ particularly post Night Ride Home. i find most Joni fans prefer her pre Hissing Of Summer Lawns. There seems to be a great divide over this album so just let me state that it is unquestionably my least favorite of all Joni albums (although i LOVE Sweetbird) Apparently i am among the very few fans who joniphiles who thinks she just keeps better with each album. i LOVED Dog Eat Dog & Chalkmark when they came out! Night Ride Home made me realize we are dealing with a genius not seen since Yeats. b u t Turblent Indigo convinced me that our world has NEVER witnessed an artist quite like Joni. Obviously i am in the vast majority for absolutely ADORING Travelogue. SHINE propels me to conclude she is our world's most original artist since Beethoven!!! May i just say that IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF that people "blame" Joni's latest greatest vocals on cigarettets! MY GOD she only sounds warmer & better with every album Apparently i am the only JMDL member who appriciates Joni's latest music more than ever before (pleae prove me wrong people!) i could quote Joni from MOJO on the 'stupidity' & 'ignorance' of people who blame her deeper voice on tobacco but ARE u too lazy to read it??? All i can say is that Joni BY FAR is the most important artist since daVinci..... The big question is: would u want to sound the same way u did 40 years later? i can't blame Biz & Joplin for wanting to break her leg Our Joan IS surviving HISTORY unfolding soooo beautifully & i am SO grateful that i am aware of what a HUGE contribution she continues to make! IS EVERYONE STUCK IN THE 70's?????? It's SAD to see that everyone seems to judge Joni by her early folk stuff. i am a Joni fan who appriciates her music more with every album Not lying! ET NP: - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:48:01 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Kalo mina P.S. WARNING: Sports content P.S. Ach du Lieber! As a former hockey mom, how could I forget all those jokers glued that those damn hockey games? Good luck to your Rangers, DL. I hope they can teach their feet to flyyyyyyyyy! And in my mind, I'm going to Carolina to root for Asst. GM Ron Francis (a thrill like I have never known). pp _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 06:10:47 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Women, njc http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080301/OPINIONS02/803010314/1091 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:22:02 -0500 From: "Some Millers" Subject: Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) Im on the same wavelength as you Eric vis-`-vis Jonis ongoing ascension into the upper echelon of artists over the years. However, I strongly disagree w/ you vis-`-vis the merits of HOSL. Harrys House was the primary hook by which Joni reeled me in ~ 30 years ago, and Ive been savoring each and every new release ever since. Long may she run! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:21:59 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) But smoking does change a person's voice over time. Just as Victor pointed out, many things can one's voice over time given how you treat it. Hell, screaming too much over a long period of time can make you lose your voice! I often wonder if Janis Joplin somehow made it, if she would still have been able to sing today singing like that all the time... As for whether smoking "deteriorates" someone's voice, well that is subjective. Change doesn't mean for the worse (although it could). It is an opinion whether you like Joni's voice now which is changed (and in part from smoking and a load of other things presumably). -Monika, whose favorite album is The Hissing of Summer Lawns but who wholeheartedly digs Shine Eric Taylor wrote: i feel like a broken record stating this yet again BUT i MUCH prefer joni's post Hejira voice ~ particularly post Night Ride Home. i find most Joni fans prefer her pre Hissing Of Summer Lawns. There seems to be a great divide over this album so just let me state that it is unquestionably my least favorite of all Joni albums (although i LOVE Sweetbird) Apparently i am among the very few fans who joniphiles who thinks she just keeps better with each album. i LOVED Dog Eat Dog & Chalkmark when they came out! Night Ride Home made me realize we are dealing with a genius not seen since Yeats. b u t Turblent Indigo convinced me that our world has NEVER witnessed an artist quite like Joni. Obviously i am in the vast majority for absolutely ADORING Travelogue. SHINE propels me to conclude she is our world's most original artist since Beethoven!!! May i just say that IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF that people "blame" Joni's latest greatest vocals on cigarettets! MY GOD she only sounds warmer & better with every album Apparently i am the only JMDL member who appriciates Joni's latest music more than ever before (pleae prove me wrong people!) i could quote Joni from MOJO on the 'stupidity' & 'ignorance' of people who blame her deeper voice on tobacco but ARE u too lazy to read it??? All i can say is that Joni BY FAR is the most important artist since daVinci..... The big question is: would u want to sound the same way u did 40 years later? i can't blame Biz & Joplin for wanting to break her leg Our Joan IS surviving HISTORY unfolding soooo beautifully & i am SO grateful that i am aware of what a HUGE contribution she continues to make! IS EVERYONE STUCK IN THE 70's?????? It's SAD to see that everyone seems to judge Joni by her early folk stuff. i am a Joni fan who appriciates her music more with every album Not lying! ET NP: - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:37:50 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Hillary or Barack? njc This brings us to a question that I often ponder about politicians--their moral vs. social conscience. What if a politician actually believes in one thing very strongly but the majority of people believe the opposite (not speaking of gay people here but think of other issues that aren't obvious)? Should the leader go after what he/she personally stands for or for what the people stand for? I know these two positions can conflict...this must be a struggle for some. -Monika Kate Bennett wrote: Exactly Kay. It baffles me that our representatives, some of them anyway, felt they were deceived by Bush. I like your definition of leadership. I just heard that Obama gave a speech in Texas where he said something in support of gay rights to a crowd that he knew would not be receptive. And they weren't. Now THAT is leadership. Doing & saying what is right regardless of who is out there or who might vote for you. My respect for him just went through the roof because of that. The video of Hillary mocking Obama made me very sad (for her). I feel she really lowered herself in a desperate kind of way. I really want to like her but she keeps doing things to make that hard for me. You are right, we really do need to be inspired. Obama is inspiring to many diverse people which is exactly what is needed in our next president to get things done. He is proving his leadership on a daily basis. Kate - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:54:12 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Hillary or Barack, njc Kate wrote: It baffles me that our representatives, some of them anyway, felt they were deceived by Bush. Kate? Hasn't the whole Bush presidency been full of deception? He's been the most misleading president I think I've experienced in my life time. Deception by definition isn't something proven false at the time. Time bears the burden of proof... in time it can be said, "that was deception, false." Events have to be played out first. I think all of the American people have been deceived by Bush not just our representatives. Love, Laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:05:23 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: O my what the Hill?, njc Hi Monika, This post shows you are very articulate, honest, compassionate, and a deep thinker. I am impressed. You are a fine example of a young adult who cares enough to get involved and speak your mind. Love, Laura Monika wrote: Yes, actually Hillary Clinton has said she regretted her decision for voting for the war. Just this last debate, the candidates were asked what they could take back and she said her vote for the war. The fact that she voted for the war then doesn't bother me because it shows she is human and makes mistakes. It would bother me if she said she didn't regret her vote and STILL backed the war. But since she is capable of admitting mistakes it only shows that she is human like the rest of us (and willing to change her mind, not a bad thing in my book). Now someone else had mentioned that she thought Obama was running for the people (to serve) but Hillary was running for herself, well come on now. They are both running for the people and for themselves. Let's not forget they are politicians and this whole campaigning business is all a game. Of course Hillary Clinton would be happy to win just as Obama would be. But...but...BUT...I do believe both are in favor of helping the country. If Hillary Clinton wasn't, why would she be so adamant about healthcare? She, in her position, has damn good healthcare so if she didn't really give a shit one way or another, why would she furiously be behind her plan for universal healthcare? And as for New York, I could up with a list of things Hillary did/tried to do for her state. The fact that she won her state of NY says she's alright with them. No offense to Barack Obama, as I think he has good ideas, but I do believe some of his appeal is because he is virtually unknown. He doesn't really have a record to point out this is wrong and that is right and so forth. He comes out from the shadows saying all the right things....very smooth....sort of like a clean slate for the country. We don't really know his flaws...or his attributes really (I'm speaking action vs. words here people). This could be a very good thing...or a devasting thing. I have no reason to doubt his word (I don't think he's a conman as someone in cuckoo land tried to tell me he was) but can only HOPE, HOPE, HOPE with the little experience he has, he'll be able to do what needs to be done...able to face opposition and get past it...fight for America....within America....let other countries fend for themselves. Let's fix America before we start telling other countries how to run their country. Anyhow, if Barack Obama does indeed get the nomination I will no doubt vote for him. However, like some who said if Hillary Clinton got it, they would vote for her but not be as excited/inspired, well I would feel the same way if Obama did get it. My vote will go to him but I won't lie. I would feel let down a bit but then I guess the passion of making sure McCain stays out of office would be more powerful than ever... -Monika, who says the game is not over...this Tuesday is crucial in this campaign! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 09:18:57 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Hillary or Barack, njc Laura, yes you are absolutely right- it has been full of deception. I don't consider myself that politically knowledgeable certainly not compared to those who hold a seat in congress, but I can't remember a time when I ever trusted Bush. I relate to those among our leaders who have consistently held a similar view. There are a few of them thank goodness. So I have a very difficult time believing that many in the legislative branch felt he deceived them. There was information out there by very respected & experienced people who warned us not to invade Iraq. There was a lot of history & knowledge about Iraq & other countries that would serve as a warning bell. There was a lot of knowledge about the very fringe agenda of those who were advising Bush. Either the people who voted for the war are naove or ignorant or they were not bothering to do their homework or, the more likely thing- they were too afraid to stand up against the president & republican majority in order to protect the future of their political career. Kate >Hasn't the whole Bush presidency been full of deception? He's been the most misleading president I think I've experienced in my life time. Deception by definition isn't something proven false at the time. Time bears the burden of proof... in time it can be said, "that was deception, false." Events have to be played out first. I think all of the American people have been deceived by Bush not just our representatives. Love, Laura< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:37:25 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Hillary or Barack, njc > Either the people who voted for the > war are naive or ignorant or they were not bothering to do their homework > or, the more likely thing- they were too afraid to stand up against the > president & republican majority in order to protect the future of their > political career. > Kate Bingo! Give the young lady a prize! A million young and old people marched against the war before it started, all over the world. They knew it was wrong. Colin Powell's UN speech was discredited as fabrication within days of his making it (not that the US media bothered about any of that). Bill Clinton himself said that Cheney and "that bunch" had been itching to invade Iraq for years. Either he and Hillary never talked about it, or she was cow-towed into going along, along with Kennedy et al. Either way, it's unacceptable. The reason Hillary said she made a mistake (five years later!) in voting for the war is because she had to. To do otherwise would be political suicide. The Bush agenda could not have happened without those great enablers, The Democrats (with a very few exceptions). Obama did not vote for the war, but he voted for all the $ appropriations bills ever since. The word change is just a marketing ploy-I'm sorry to say. Three years from now, we will most likely still be in Iraq, protecting our "national interests" (Barack). Obama also- voted for the patriot act in 2005 voted to approve Condeleeza Rice called ultra-conservative Sen. Leiberman his 'mentor' wants to add 100,000 troops to the military wants to stay in Iraq, possibly until 2013 (he told Tim Russert), or take those troops and invade Afghanistan (which is it?) voted for CAFA, a Bush/GOP darling bill for the corporations voted against credit card interest caps is pro nuclear power in pro corn ethanol, which takes almost as much energy to make as it produces Voted against the Kucinich single payer health bill "never supported NAFTA" - not! He praised it in his '04 campaign supports the death penalty, voted for the Mexican fence, and aggressively opposed impeachment. Does this sound like a liberal to you? The only reason Hillary has to walk on eggshells concerning these issues is that her record is pretty much the same. While I recognize the need to remove the criminals that now occupy the White House (and they should be tried for war crimes and treason), I will wait on the big celebration of change until there actually is some. Arguing over Obama/Hillary is like arguing over a Ford or a Chevy. http://www.beyondchron.org/news/index.php?itemid=5413#more RR ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #590 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------