From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #580 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, February 22 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 580 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: salutations [Mark-Leon Thorne ] njc Health Care [] njc Health Care [] Re: salutations [Eric Taylor ] for Hillary, njc [Laura Stanley ] NJC O&C debate in TX [Em ] Re: salutations [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Salutations [Laura Stanley ] Re: salutations [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Salutations [Laura Stanley ] Re: njc Health Care [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Night of the Iquana [Laura Stanley ] Re: NJC O&C debate in TX [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: salutations [KEVIN DOHENY ] Re: Joni/Judy photo, was: salutations [David Eoll ] RE: NJC O&C debate in TX ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: NJC O&C debate in TX [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Herbie's grammy win ["Barbara Stewart" ] re: salutations [mia _ ] Re: NJC: health care: political (Looooong) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC: health care: political (Looooong) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC: health care: political (Looooong) [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Joni/Judy photo, was: salutations [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Remember... the stars are in Hillary's favor, njc [Laura Stanley ] RE: NJC O&C debate in TX [Jeannie ] Progressive, njc [Laura Stanley ] Re: Maureen McGovern [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: "River" and other ramblings and ravings... (long) now smoke NJC ["Kay] Re: NJC health care [missblux@googlemail.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:21:19 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: salutations Hi David and greetings from Joni-land in Australia. Thanks for your post. It was a delight to read about your first encounter with Joni's music and your impressions and faves. I'd like to invite you to check out the wallpapers section of the JMDL site at www.jmdl.com/wallpaper If you have any inclination towards graphic design, please feel free to submit a Joni themed wallpaper. I used the photograph that you mentioned as the basis of my wallpaper, "Ladies of The Canyon". I wouldn't know how to buy a reproduction or the original but I'd be happy to send you a copy if you like. Keep up the posts. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:14:45 -0800 From: Subject: njc Health Care Hi Les, I just saw your comments on the digest. For my further thoughts you can see what I wrote to Bene. It's an issue that should be of concern to anyone regardless of their system or country of origin. No one country can claim that their system is superior. There are advantages and disadvantages both ways. I prefer the system I live under but think there could be improvements without radical overhaul that could hurt more than help. Yes, of course, I think you have been given misinformation! ;-) Maybe I have also been given misinformation from people in Canada and in articles about health care in U.K. So have many people in the U.S. All I know is my own experience and the experience of my friends who have been poor and/or without health insurance. There are back-up systems for them in many places if they only look or if someone guides them to it. And, yes, definitely my fear of our typical bureaucracy here is well-founded. You won't find me singing their praises! Randy made some point (I don't know if sarcastically or not) the other night about us having to pay $800 a month for health insurance if some kind of government plan comes in. I thought about that and he could be right! Here most people have jobs and most of their employers pay some or all of their health insurance. If the system changes where the government says they are going to handle it, well, won't the private employers say "YAY" we don't have to lay out that benefit anymore! Let's see, my employer contributes about $500/month to my plan and I contribute $100. Possibly under the new "universal" plan not only will I have to now pay $600/month but it will probably be based on total income, like a tax. So it could very well be $800/month out of the pocket. Gee, does that really benefit most people vs the old system?? If your system works for you, that is great. If many here don't think it will work for us, that is our concern. I would just love to shrug the Atlas anyway and find Galt's Gulch but alas, I am just another prisoner in disguise ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:43:58 -0800 From: Subject: njc Health Care Geez, Mack, blaming all the health care issues on the evil Republicans? Why has no one addressed one of the main reasons why health care costs skyrocket? Those woolly little lawyers and their outrageous payouts. And it was the evil Bush and Republicans trying to pass tort reform to put controls on those greedy lawyers, but NO, we can't have that because they are Republicans!! We can't ever agree with them, no matter what! On another note, someone young without health insurance can get coverage for about the cost of a high speed combo cell phone internet connection. I have given information to two men in their 40s here on the list in the past where they got coverage for around $125 a month with $1,000 deductible regardless of pre-existing conditions. Maybe I just have a more optimistic view being from California - our laws are more often enlightened and I think they basically prohibited insurance carriers from disqualiying people based on pre-existing conditions many years ago. That was based on the premise of "bad faith" dealing. If people have paid in it would be bad faith (a legal violation) to then disqualify them arbitrarily. What happens when we give government control of our health care? Can we still sue doctors, hospitals, etc. individually or do we sue the government? How do we lower health care costs? Limit the costs across the board for all? Conscript into service good doctors and nurses, etc. to work for a set government pay grade? Hmmm, just don't know how it will all work out so perfectly. Change the laws so that doctors and pharma companies can no longer be sued? Well, that should lower costs, I guess. No easy answer to what are definite issues. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:47:11 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Eric Taylor Subject: Re: salutations David Eoll shined: >>Hello, I'm a new list member. I sent this intro earlier in the week and didn't see it on the list, so I'm resending it. Sorry, if it ends up being duplicated. Been a Joni fan for about half of my life. I have all her records (yes, records) from the 60s and 70s, and have just recently acquired the remainder of her oeuvre on CD. Still digesting those, but so far, Night Ride Home seems to be the standout.<< Aloha David! It is always SO good to know that there are other Joni addicts out there!!! As an old Joni lover since the days of Blue i agree that NRH is up there with her finest work. Passion Play & Slouching Toward Bethlehem remain in my top ten of all time. It is also SO good to know that there are Joni fans out there who are not just addicted to her incredibly wonderful early albums. i'd LOVE to hear what U think about SHINE! Aloha~ ET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:43:59 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: for Hillary, njc If you are for or interested in Hillary watch this and some of the other videos on the page: http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/109.aspx ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:50:50 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: NJC O&C debate in TX I feel so uplifted after last evening's debate. They're both great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I ADORED the lack of nastiness. And I am haunted by how splendid they look together. please god pleeeeeeez let one of them be our next prez....... (can't we have both?) Be "bi"? guess it doesn't work that way.... :) Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:00:02 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: salutations Sounds like a Henry Diltz photograph. Check his website. Most of them are for sale. Jerry > Hi David-I don't recall seeing your earlier posting-but welcome to > Joniville- > Hopefully someone knows about the Judy/Joni pic. My brother lives in NH- > (Etna). Never been but hope to go! RR > > From: "David Eoll" >> Hello, I'm a new list member. I sent this intro earlier in the week and >> didn't see it on the list, so I'm resending it. I came across a lovely B&W >> photo on the internet of Joni and Judy Collins playing acoustic guitars >> together in what appeared to be a treehouse, or maybe it was just a wooden >> deck. I seem to remember it was for sale as a print or poster, or >> somesuch. Anyone seen this picture, and more to the point, anyone know >> where I can get a copy of it? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:08:07 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Salutations Hi David, Welcome to the list! I'd love to see that photo you are talking about. Have you seen the one of them in the tree house together? Love, Laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:13:59 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: salutations Hi David, thanks for the intro - our beginnings with Joni were pretty parallel as I came on board with Court & Spark as well (it was "Help Me" that turned my ear). Unlike you though I didn't go back since at the time I was more into electric than acoustic and wasn't that interested in her previous stuff, plus since she was so prolific then I was getting new stuff every year, and what a run with C&S, HOSL, Hejira, DRJD - whew! It's taking me a lifetime to absorb even that segment of her incredible body of work. Hope you can stick around and contribute. Bob NP: Ani, "I'm No Heroine" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:12:13 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Salutations Woops... I see now in your post that you DID see the photo you were talking about. Maybe it is on Judy Collins' website? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:17:37 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: njc Health Care Actually, significant Tort Reform was passed, Class Action Reform, February 17, 2005, and it was supported by 18 Democrat Senators (including that left wing, communist, evil hag from California Senator Feinstein) and 50 Democrat Congressmen. Still waiting for the effects to kick in. Jerry > Geez, Mack, blaming all the health care issues on the evil Republicans? Why > has no one addressed one of the main reasons why health care costs skyrocket? > Those woolly little lawyers and their outrageous payouts. And it was the evil > Bush and Republicans trying to pass tort reform to put controls on those > greedy lawyers, but NO, we can't have that because they are Republicans!! We > can't ever agree with them, no matter what! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:18:18 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Night of the Iquana ET wrote: may i say that SHINE is much more important & even more wonderful than DJRD! Hi Eric, I have been listening to DJRD a lot of late. When I listen to it, I am put into a sunrise or sunset mood. And, when I listen to SHINE I feel like I'm in mid day. Love, Laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:10:50 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC O&C debate in TX I thought it was excellent - I think it helped people to see the distinction between being a Statesman vs. being a Politician. I did like the audience's response when Hillary took her awkward and silly "Xerox" cheap shot, and Obama's dismissal of it was great. That alone to me was evidence that she represents Washington business as usual. Now what I'm really looking forward to are the McCain - ___________? debates. They will almost be too painful to watch. Bob NP: Led Zeppelin, "Thank You" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:26:22 -0800 (PST) From: KEVIN DOHENY Subject: Re: salutations Welcome David! Sorry I have no clue about the picture but you have come to the right place..Someone here is sure to know..If anything you've found a cool place with some really amazing people! Enjoy! Speaking of the early Joni records I was lucky enough to get introduced to her on vinyl and for my money they sound so much better! Besides that..I like the action of having to get up and flip the record over...It gives you a little time to think about what you just heard and to prepare for side 2... Anyway I hope you find the pic and welcome!! kev in nj LOVE NH David Eoll wrote: Hello, I'm a new list member. I sent this intro earlier in the week and didn't see it on the list, so I'm resending it. Sorry, if it ends up being duplicated. Been a Joni fan for about half of my life. I have all her records (yes, records) from the 60s and 70s, and have just recently acquired the remainder of her oeuvre on CD. Still digesting those, but so far, Night Ride Home seems to be the standout. Its been awhile, but I think my first introduction to Joni was Free Man in Paris, which I heard on the radio. I probably had heard Big Yellow Taxi and My Old Man, too, but didn't know who the artist was. Free Man was what grabbed me though, initially. I heard a steady diet of Blue and C&S, and occasionally Ladies, while I was in college. My favorite, though? I dunno, I seem to keep coming back to Seagull. I just love it. Anyway, I actually had a specific reason for joining the list. Last year sometime, I came across a lovely B&W photo on the internet of Joni and Judy Collins playing acoustic guitars together in what appeared to be a treehouse, or maybe it was just a wooden deck. I seem to remember it was for sale as a print or poster, or somesuch. Anyone seen this picture, and more to the point, anyone know where I can get a copy of it? I think I was researching the circumstances of Judy covering Joni's song Both Sides Now. So I've tried recreating that google quest, to no avail. I just can't seem to find the picture again. Best Regards, David Eoll Exeter, NH, USA - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:33:34 -0500 From: David Eoll Subject: Re: Joni/Judy photo, was: salutations Jerry Notaro wrote: > Sounds like a Henry Diltz photograph. Check his website. Most of them are > for sale. > > Jerry Bingo! Thanks a million, Jerry! I'm a huge fan of both women. More so for Joni, and for longer. I've loved Joni just about my entire adult life. I've just recently gotten turned on to Judy, and I'm more partial to her first 5 albums or so. You know, the folky stuff. So its a treat to have such a charming picture of the two of them. Here's a link: http://www.morrisonhotelgallery.com/photo/default.aspx?photographID=247 Laura Stanley wrote: > Hi David, > > Welcome to the list! I'd love to see that photo you are talking about. Have you seen the one of them in the tree house together? > > Love, > Laura The treehouse photo is the one I was thinking of. Thanks, Laura! Thanks for the quick responses, everyone. Y'all seem like a friendly bunch. Not surprising, considering your musical tastes. ;) Think I'll stick around. We're gearing up for a snow storm today here in NH, so I guess I'll ply the fire with kindling and pull the blankets up to my chin. Peace, David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:39:14 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: NJC O&C debate in TX I, too, am an Obama supporter, and I agree that the Xerox remark was both cheap and ineffective. I wonder which of her writers she got that dud from? On the other hand, I think Clinton did better in this debate than she has in any debate since New Hampshire. I'm pulling for Obama & have contributed $$ to his campaign, but I can get behind whichever candidate gets the nomination. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:11 AM To: Em Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: NJC O&C debate in TX I thought it was excellent - I think it helped people to see the distinction between being a Statesman vs. being a Politician. I did like the audience's response when Hillary took her awkward and silly "Xerox" cheap shot, and Obama's dismissal of it was great. That alone to me was evidence that she represents Washington business as usual. Now what I'm really looking forward to are the McCain - ___________? debates. They will almost be too painful to watch. Bob NP: Led Zeppelin, "Thank You" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:55:29 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: NJC O&C debate in TX As will I, Richard - a McCain Presidency would be equivalent to a Bush third term, and only 19% of the country wants so stay on that track. Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "Beaten To The Punch" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:33:45 -0500 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: Herbie's grammy win profile / feature on LA Times website: http://tinyurl.com/ysnqfa B from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:38:08 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC Health Insurance It is nice hearing from those in other countries re their health care system. Ours really sucks for many people. I used to have great health insurance when I worked for an organization that provided it. Being self employed or working for an organization that does not provide these benefits, is truly a different reality. Jeff is self-employed, I work two part time jobs neither offers insurance benefits. For the two of us, we pay about $800 per month for a $5,000 deductible policy. Our policy is simply to cover us should anything catastrophic happen- we won't loose our home or be refused care. This is hardly affordable health insurance & we've put off a lot of our basic medical needs until we can afford them because we'd still be paying out of pocket on top of the monthly payments. We are both blessed with good health at the moment, thankfully. Jeff is eligible for Medicare this year so this will reduce our monthly payments a lot also. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:03:46 -0600 From: mia _ Subject: re: salutations Hi David, and welcome to the list! I've seen the tree house photo circulating on the Internet in the past, but the first time I actually saw the photo was in a People Magazine that I picked up in the waiting room at a dentist office. If you can find this magazine issue, you can cut out the picture and have your own glossy photograph to frame! :) People Magazine interviewed Judy Collins around 1992 I think, about the time of her son's suicide. There wasn't much Joni content except for the tree house photo and Judy Collins exclaiming how crazy she was about every single song Joni ever put out. Good luck! Mia <> Exeter, NH, USA _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:11:12 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC: health care: political (Looooong) >You may hate your job but feel like you have to stay in it because you have to have that health insurance.< So true & here's another twist. For me, it was a catch 22 because the two jobs providing such good health insurance demanded so much from me that I was too often really ill & needed to use the insurance! (both jobs also provided horrible physical working conditions- no access to fresh air, too much air conditioning & god knows what kind of recycled atmosphere throughout the building). Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:28:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC health care Yes, the very poor can receive care in the ER. Of course, if they had reasonable insurance they would not be using the ER. Catch 22 with our broken system. Additionally, those who are neither poor or wealthy are the ones who are suffering most under the present system. BTW, I took my sick baby to the ER twice because it was after hours & his temp was very very high. Maybe the other people in the room thought I didn't belong there? How would they know how scary it was to have a baby with that kind of temperature? They saw me right away, probably making other people wait (that is what triage is about- the ones with the most emergency get seen first). I think it is very difficult as a lay person to judge whether or not someone else in the room deserves to be there. >The millions off the books walk into any emergency room and sometimes clinics for absolutely free health care because by law they cannot be turned away from most facilities. I have been to the emergency room many, many times the past few years for my parents and myself and you can see the people coming to the emergency room every time for any kind of treatment, usually sick babies and diaper rash. In addition to paying part of the insurance through our employers, we also in many states, including California pay for MediCal which is insurance that is available if you are below a certain income and do not have health insurance.< >In contrast, if our system in the U.S. is taken over by the government it will turn a lot on its end and not for the good of all, I am afraid.< As someone already mentioned, our Medicare system seems to be working well. I don't understand this big fear about government & healthcare. Jeff is happy to be eligible, my Dad is happy with it, my mom, when she was alive & also ill, was happy with it. It is part of our system that DOES work. Let's build on that. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:25:11 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC: health care: political (Looooong) Kay wrote: > And altruism is a value that is sadly absent in American society. Interestingly, it seems to be a value that "certain people" EXPECT shall be present in "certain other people," and those "certain other people" are then expected to honor that calling to -- for example -- become teachers or nurses or soldiers, and then perform those jobs for crap wages. Because they're altruistic, you know. Note to "certain people": That used to work. It doesn't anymore. Teachers and nurses and soldiers and others who do the jobs that you don't feel called upon to do have families to feed and bills to pay, too. Furthermore, they don't want to live in shitty cirumstances anymore than you do. Lori, who swore at the beginning of the year that I would stay out of these discussions ... darn it! P.S. - Kay, it's good to have you around again! Been checking out your website -- love it! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:59:31 -0600 From: Kate Johnson Subject: Re: salutations On 21-Feb-08, at 9:24 PM, David Eoll wrote: > > > Been a Joni fan for about half of my life. I have all her records > (yes, records) from the 60s and 70s, and have just recently > acquired the remainder of her oeuvre on CD. Still digesting those, > but so far, Night Ride Home seems to be the standout. > > Hi David, I've put Night Ride Home on after reading your post; thanks for the reminder. Good to see you. Sorry I can't help with your quest, but I can pretty much guarantee you will soon have an answer from someone on this list. They know damn near everything related to our Joan, betwixt 'em all. I first heard Joni somewhere between the ages of 10 and 12, while listening to the transistor radio under my covers at night. I don't think I knew she was from my home province for a number of years, nor did I pursue information about her. But when I was 15 she had a hit with Help Me, and I scraped up 15 bucks to go buy the C&S album. After three listens, I was hooked. Now I'm 49 and still hooked. I love music, love singing it, hearing it, playing it. Singing, especially with others, gives me one of the profound joys in my life. Many singers provoke me to sing along; they move my heart or my feet. But Joni continuously astounds my ears, as well. I have no professional music training and cannot articulate my admiration for what she does, but for me the songs, their lyrics and arrangements along with her vocals and playing, are not only intelligent and masterful but are beautifully realized evocations of life. Wish I could explain! But of course I don't have to ... you all know exactly what I mean. Kate of the North http://xoetc.antville.org Who Does She Think She Is? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:58:39 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: NJC: health care: political (Looooong) I have not found an affordable health insurance plan for myself. I lost my insurance (covered under my Dad's policy) last year after the insurance company found out I had finished school (going fulltime allows you to have your family's plan until age 23 which then school or no school you're kicked off anyhow). Right around that time I tried to find affordable insurance to no avail. In fact, on the net I thought I found some pretty affordable deals. However, I made the mistake of having all these companies call me for more details and funny how on the phone all the plans I saw on the net just about tripled! I even mentioned an ad I saw to one of the companies and the rep said the company doesn't offer that and I must have made a mistake (I didn't). Well, almost a year later, I still have no insurance but have been lucky to not really get ill enough to have to visit the doctor. Although, it is crazy without insurance! I see an allergy doctor once a year (for my prescription which I pay for with a prescription discount card) and the less than one minute visit cost $72 when with insurance the copay was only $15. But these companies have to better serve the people that they supposedly claim to serve. My Mom has MS (and is bed ridden) and my Dad had to FIGHT for all the care she has now. But even so, we have an incompetent nursing agency that have a nurse come twice a month (after my Dad switched insurance companies, we lost the primary nurse who was damn good at her job). We've been trying to get a different (and hopefully competent) nursing agency for months now but once again, the insurance gets in the way and won't cover any other agency. The care she gets from them is just about the same she would get without them. Pitiful if you knew the situation personally....luckily, we have a damn good homecare health aide who knows what she's doing (who even tells those nurses what to do since legally she isn't allowed to do the things a nurse is supposed to know anyway). All in all, we all have our own personal experiences with insurance companies and I thought I'd share my own. Not only does this country need universal, affordable healthcare, somebody needs to metaphorically slap some of these companies in the face. Recently, a friend of mine passed away who had been battling breast cancer. I found out recently she (and her family) were so much in debt because her insurance wouldn't cover chemo drugs. Pitiful man. -Monika - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:01:59 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: njc Health Care From: > Randy made some point (I don't know if sarcastically or not) the other > night > about us having to pay $800 a month for health insurance if some kind of > government plan comes in. I thought about that and he could be right! I wasn't being sarcastic, although I pulled that amount out of the air. I am skeptical of so-called "change" such as Hillary's plan that seems like a big, wet kiss giveaway to the health/insurance industry, forcing every citizen to buy health care insurance under penalty of the law without doing anything to reform a greedy, bloated, and uncaring industry. The next logical step is debtor's prison. Maybe then we can compete economically with prosperous, slave-labor China. I've had some experience with Medi-Cal here in California, too. It's great for emergency room visits, not so great for things like routine dental work, since very few docs accept it. It's a good system for the poor, but not for the working stiff-they will make you sell your second car, any property you own, etc before they will help you. Your income has to be very low. I was also told that they now say you must have a child to get it yourself-don't know if that's true, but if so, that's stupid. My wife gets Medicare, which we must pay $350/month for. I guess it's good if you were going to be spending $4000/year for medical expenses anyway. I will never be eligible for it. Kakki, I would like to know more about the plan you mentioned that cannot turn down people with pre-existing conditions. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:02:51 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni/Judy photo, was: salutations Hey David! Welcome to the Jonilist! You will enjoy the discussion on here since it is filled with such diverse, intelligent minds talking about one of the most talented musicians ever! And of course there other talk is welcome as well! Thank you so much for that link. I wonder what Joni was playing/singing and what her and Judy were talking about before that photo was taken. They look so much at ease and I always wonder these things about people in photos. I, too, like you first found the Joni spark from the song "Free Man In Paris." The difference being I found it years later, not too long ago actually. I wasn't even born yet when the song came out though I'm jealous of all you folks who were! I look forward to your posts! -Monika David Eoll wrote: Jerry Notaro wrote: > Sounds like a Henry Diltz photograph. Check his website. Most of them are > for sale. > > Jerry Bingo! Thanks a million, Jerry! I'm a huge fan of both women. More so for Joni, and for longer. I've loved Joni just about my entire adult life. I've just recently gotten turned on to Judy, and I'm more partial to her first 5 albums or so. You know, the folky stuff. So its a treat to have such a charming picture of the two of them. Here's a link: http://www.morrisonhotelgallery.com/photo/default.aspx?photographID=247 Laura Stanley wrote: > Hi David, > > Welcome to the list! I'd love to see that photo you are talking about. Have you seen the one of them in the tree house together? > > Love, > Laura The treehouse photo is the one I was thinking of. Thanks, Laura! Thanks for the quick responses, everyone. Y'all seem like a friendly bunch. Not surprising, considering your musical tastes. ;) Think I'll stick around. We're gearing up for a snow storm today here in NH, so I guess I'll ply the fire with kindling and pull the blankets up to my chin. Peace, David - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:04:57 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC: health care: political (Looooong) Interestingly, one of my closest friends, a well respected biologist, is writing a book on altruistic behavior as genetically important and imprinted behavior for the survival of a species. She has documented it over and over again and in computer simulations of human behavior. I hope man realizes it before it is too late. It is the hoarders that always perish first. Jerry > Kay wrote: > >> And altruism is a value that is sadly absent in American society. > > Interestingly, it seems to be a value that "certain people" EXPECT shall be > present in "certain other people," and those "certain other people" are then > expected to honor that calling to -- for example -- become teachers or > nurses or soldiers, and then perform those jobs for crap wages. Because > they're altruistic, you know. > > Note to "certain people": That used to work. It doesn't anymore. Teachers > and nurses and soldiers and others who do the jobs that you don't feel > called upon to do have families to feed and bills to pay, too. Furthermore, > they don't want to live in shitty cirumstances anymore than you do. > > Lori, > who swore at the beginning of the year that I would stay out of these > discussions ... darn it! > > P.S. - Kay, it's good to have you around again! Been checking out your > website -- love it! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:04:42 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Herbie News Very nice indeed! I will give this the polite-but-with-nose-in-the-air golf clap! -Monika, who has a day off after working 10 days straight Happy The Man wrote: Herbie Hancock's Album Of The Year winner *River: The Joni Letters*skyrocketing from No. 159 to No. 5 and nearly doubling its total sales in the space of seven days. (It sold 54,000 copies and has moved 114,000 to date.) Go Herbie...Go Joni. Peace, Craig NP: Andy Gullahorn - How Precious Life Is. - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:12:54 +0800 (CST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Remember... the stars are in Hillary's favor, njc http://astrodynamics.blogspot.com/2007_10_01_archive.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:24:36 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Herbie News I was shopping just now at Amazon for my younger sister's 50th birthday and _River_ was Amazon's #1 seller in music (#2 was Amy Winehouse's _Back to Black_) np: "Wake Up Alone" Amy Winehouse - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Monika Bogdanowicz Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 2:05 PM To: Joni people!; Happy The Man Subject: Re: Herbie News Very nice indeed! I will give this the polite-but-with-nose-in-the-air golf clap! -Monika, who has a day off after working 10 days straight Happy The Man wrote: Herbie Hancock's Album Of The Year winner *River: The Joni Letters*skyrocketing from No. 159 to No. 5 and nearly doubling its total sales in the space of seven days. (It sold 54,000 copies and has moved 114,000 to date.) Go Herbie...Go Joni. Peace, Craig NP: Andy Gullahorn - How Precious Life Is. - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:32:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jeannie Subject: RE: NJC O&C debate in TX I, too, am rooting for Barack. I admire Hillary Clinton, but, as Bob stated, I, too, feel she's way too connected, (as Nancy Pelosi is) to 'old-school' to the out-dated present political system. The fact that they are women, at this point, means nothing to me. I have not made a snap decision with my stance to back up Barack. I have kept in tune with Hillary and what she's had to say since the Clinton Administration. I'm traumatized with the political charlatans, Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld and all those other Bushite right wingers who are certified sires of sorrow and who have naughtily, deliberately and criminally made, "everything I dread and everything I fear come true," and I want no part of it anymore. I met Barack Tuesday afternoon and again, I say, I'll be back to write up about it---need to go put my kitties out in the garden to enjoy this gorgeous day, along with doing simple things around the house which is quiet. Barack is one cool cat with a profound determination to make this place, not alone, but together with us, a better place for each one of us to shine our little lights everywhere we roam.. Love, Jeannie Richard Flynn wrote: I, too, am an Obama supporter, and I agree that the Xerox remark was both cheap and ineffective. I wonder which of her writers she got that dud from? On the other hand, I think Clinton did better in this debate than she has in any debate since New Hampshire. I'm pulling for Obama & have contributed $$ to his campaign, but I can get behind whichever candidate gets the nomination. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:11 AM To: Em Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: NJC O&C debate in TX I thought it was excellent - I think it helped people to see the distinction between being a Statesman vs. being a Politician. I did like the audience's response when Hillary took her awkward and silly "Xerox" cheap shot, and Obama's dismissal of it was great. That alone to me was evidence that she represents Washington business as usual. Now what I'm really looking forward to are the McCain - ___________? debates. They will almost be too painful to watch. Bob NP: Led Zeppelin, "Thank You" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ~nj~ - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:43:05 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Progressive, njc > FL is a progressive state??? > ????? > I'll have to open my eyes and ears wider and see if I can detect that > one of these days. > > Em Mack wrote: touche'. about as progressive as tx. LOL Did you misspell tush? I love being barefoot and progressive in Florida. Thanks for the smile. Love, Laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:51:19 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Maureen McGovern Jerry Notaro wrote, a few days ago: "Another rave for Maureen s Song Cycle, this time from Broadway Pulse. Like others, he particularly gives notice to 3a stunning a cappella rendition of Mitchell's "The Fiddle and the Drum," and to her incredible skills at reinterpreting familiar songs:..... The delightfully humorous McGovern dedicates her two-week engagement at The Metropolitan Room, titled A Long And Winding Road, to those born between 1946 and 1964. "We will not go quietly into that early bird special," she says of her fellow baby boomers............. etc I'm just catching up - no doubt there were earlier posts. I will be seeing her show tomorrow night - I read Stephen Holden's very favorable review in the Times, and figured I'd better go. If anything Joni-worthy comes up, I'll post Bobsart **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:43:52 -0500 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: Re: "River" and other ramblings and ravings... (long) now smoke NJC Eric wrote: "O Kay, so you don't GET real jazz singing. That's OK, few do! But it really pisses me off that everyone harps on Joni CONSTANTLY for enjoying the very Breath Of The Great Spirit which she rightly calls "a grounding herb." The non-smoking nazis which originated in California some 20 years ago & has swept the world with hypocritical BLAME makes me want to blow tobacco just to purify the endless carbon we spew with our cars & lightbulbs. The REAL factor in Joni's voice is that she is pushing 70 god damn it! Do fans actually expect her to sound the same 40 years later???" Oh, honey, I am so jazz that you wouldn't know what to do with me. ;-D LOL No, really, I understand what you're saying. Most of the time the changes in her voice don't bother me at all and I appreciate the new timbres and the phrasings that have emerged later in her career. I had just come off reading the Mojo piece when I posted that long letter, and I'm just flabbergasted that she denies that smoking has anything to do with the changes, that's all. Whether the changes have "ruined" anything is obviously a matter of opinion. And yes, age is a factor, but any singer will tell you that smoke absolutely affects the voice. Some singers smoke on purpose in order to change their voice in a certain direction. Her denial about smoking being a factor just strikes a chord with me because I've seen people in my family kill themselves with smoke and deny that smoke had anything to do with it. I mentioned my dad in my previous post, and how he'd continued smoking after watching his mother die from cigarettes; well, she was in even more denial than he was about smoking. She died of congestive heart failure, was on an oxygen tank constantly at the end, and on her deathbed she denied that her 60 years of smoking had done any damage. I mean, WTF, right? And don't you go chain smoking on MY account. God forbid you land in some government-funded hospital where they send people like you out to pasture. Oh, and just so you know, I'm not an anti-smoking nazi. I just have asthma and enjoy breathing. Go partake of the Leaf if ye must. :-) Kay ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ KAY ASHLEY ~ Singer-Songwriter http://www.kayashley.com http://www.myspace.com/kayashley http://www.sonicbids.com/kayashley ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:04:02 +0100 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: NJC health care Hi Kakki! I won't say a word about the US system, because the discussion is too complicated to me! But so much for the Danish system: > Do you mean that you pay for your health services through your taxes? If > so, then it is one more tax amount and not free. No this is why I said it is as "free" as street light and policing, and schools an universities. These things are paid via the tax bill. I don't have an income at the moment and so I don't pay tax. So for me, they are in fact free! > I was speaking to the fact that it is not free whether the government > provides it or the employer provides it. No, it obviously doesn't fall from the sky...! > > I think that countries like Denmark, Canada, U.K., etc.. are different in > that there is not the population of the U.S. (300+ million) and in those > countries the people are accustomed to their system. All of that probably > makes those systems somewhat more manageable. I am sure that custom plays a major role. As for the size of the nation, I don't think it has to be unmanageable in the US, after all you have states. I suspect that it is very much a question of mentality. US mentality is more about each man building his own fortune. Denmark has grown from a nation mainly of poor peasants where everybody relied on each other and had to stand together. Obviously, US mentality predicts that people will think each person should look after his own health care, the Danish one predicts that people would want society to be in charge. I imagine some Americans will feel that the nation is going to grow weak if everything was provided by the state? > Hmm, I think there is more to your friend's story than is being told. So does his insurance company, haha! It > would probably be best if he just goes on the government disability (which > pays less, but there may not be as much hassle from investigators trying to > catch you out (theorectically) surfing or racing cars when you are supposed > to be disabled!). But he should not have to put up with is if he has paid his insurance! > Good to know that France has it together! A friend's daughter got very ill > away at school in England, but her school here had already covered her for > the private insurance and she had very good treatment there. In France, there was an uproar some years ago, people were furious at new cuts in the health sector. I think i was something like this: when people are referred to a specialist, they like to see several, just to make sure. I can't remember f the cuts meant that they could only see three specialists from now on, for free, or if it was only one, but previously they'd go see as many as they wanted, and sometimes the specialists would perform the same tests and seen them to the same laboratories. People were furious! I dont remember wat happened. I do think btwthat there is some private funding in France as well. > > Here is what I fear. Our government could conceivable start denying > certain, often live-saving treatment to smokers, the obese, the addicted, > etc. as I am now reading is happening in some of the countries that have > government run health care. What next? So I end up in a government run > nursing home in my old age and then they decide on euthanizing me because I > am old, smoked, etc. and am an economic burden on the system. I really > don't think I am being so hyperbolic here. Let us try to control our care > the best we can as individuals. But didn't the insurance companies introduce that sort of policies years ago? > > No, I think that is sort of a cliche. As many people as may be selfish in > their outlook here, there are far more who really do care about others and > donate their time, money and other resources to help those who are not as > fortunate. I think you may be surprised if you researched the actual > statistics on the level of charity given by people in the U.S. Yes I know. Here, there is less charity because we know that these things are provided by the state. That is not good for private responsibility and initiative.... Ok enough. I'm embarrassed that our new list member should send his first message to a list where 90 per cent of the emails wera about health care!! Take care Bene ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #580 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------