From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #530 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, January 11 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 530 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Playbill News: Kuhn Sings Nyro Songs at the Iridium Beginning Jan. 10 - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: NJC Warning: U.S. political content.... [Laura Stanley "an honest take" ["Dan Olson" ] Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Clapton bio (njc) ["Mark Scott" ] Re: Joni in uk :-) [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: NJC Warning: U.S. political content.... [Monika Bogdanowicz ] NJC NJC Warning: U.S. political content.... ["Kate Bennett" ] Don Juan's Reckless Quetzalcoatl [Eric Taylor ] Re: Joni Mitchell; A Stormy Love Affair With Christ [Eric Taylor ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:06:30 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Playbill News: Kuhn Sings Nyro Songs at the Iridium Beginning Jan. 10 - NJC http://www.playbill.com/news/article/114105.html Years back we had a Joni group go and see Judy in Eli's Comin'. I strongly recommend her cd for any Laura fans out there. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:16:06 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Honest takes I think we'd have to ask Henry Lewy about that....too late unfortunately. Joni's own performances may have been often "honest" (in this sense; of course they're always honest in the emotional sense) but with all the add-ons by others (Tom Scott's stacked winds on FTR) the end result is layered. It just seemed like Roine Stolt's cover was fully live in the studio, vocals and all, which is a rarity these days, though bands like the Stones have always done that. I was recently in the studio with a full rhythm section and we decided not to glue together takes in Pro Tools but to keep going until we got the "honest" take, which everyone seemed to find a refreshing notion, and they rose to the occasion accordingly. cheers, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:29:29 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: NJC Warning: U.S. political content.... Monika wrote: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/ You can take a quiz to see which Presidential candidate's views you most agree with. Hi Monika, Interesting quiz! My results were: Bill Richardson at 78% Edwards 14% Hillary 13% Obama 0%. Who is Bill Richardson?! LOLLLL Love, Laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:46:48 -0800 (PST) From: Peep Richman Subject: Re: Responses to Digest #529...it's Bo You are all, in my humble opinion, the most magnificent people around...too broad a sentence?...okay then...magnificent people around IN MY LIFE!!!!!!! Bob dear, I read "Bo, your posts make me happy. Thanks for that." and I burst into my trickling of hot, wet tears, then those 'help I can't breathe' sobs. You touched me. I'm glad my posts make you happy....not sure why but you are one fantastic human and anything I can do to contribute to your happiness is wonderful. And the sentence that began, "Seriously, I credit this group with making me a smarter writer....." (I don't know how to do that paste thing...no disrespect for not typing the whole sentence, Bob, but I have a very smart mother who really knows her daughter....when I took typing she told me, "TRY NOT to cheat...but if you do, at least learn to type with all ten fingers!"...and so I type with all ten very quickly but only when it comes out of my head...to look at a sentence and type it takes forever)....Bob, that gorgeous sentence...and, by the way, I love your style of writing; confirms what I've known about you from the jump...you're a humble man with an ability to access your emotions and SHARE them seemingly without (too much) censure. That makes you so rare! Love yourself!!! I love you!...and you're what we used to call "a looker"....HANDSOME!!!! But YOU have trouble with Joni covers too? That surprised me. But then again...you're addicted! Monika, just wanted to tell you that I liked Clapton up through the end of Cream too. Okay Kate...here's my pee and poop Woodstock story. The lllooonnngggg lines to the Port-A- Potties only send me flying OUT of them once it was my turn. There's an interesting (only to me) Freudian story about when I was almost 4 and peed in the bushes on the side of a road in Germany, but, I JUST want a clean bathroom...toilet paper not leaves....soundproofing wouldn't be so bad either. Has nothing to do with modesty. Just a me thing. And Jerry can attest that he has a much better aim. Now, has anyone ever wondered about Joni and how she may have coped with peeing and/or pooping in the woods? My take is that she had no problem at all. And I think that her current life requires no outdoors bathroom activities!!!! Welcome (or hello) to Bruce. I loved your post...related to it and agreed with it. How in the world have you accomplished never being depressed one day in your life? WOW!!!!! Oh...Monika...BAD news....if you think that once you reach your 30's you'll have everything together? I seriously doubt it. I HOPE so. I HOPE life treats you with sensitivity and you grow happier with each passing decade...but, the older I grow the more untogether I feel. It's also interesting....you take all of your ages with you...you don't lose anything...you enhance yourself with more of life's experiences...more knowledge etc. but you are really the same person you were in your early 20's (or younger, in my case) with similar thoughts and emotions. It all depends on how life treats you and how you treat life. I read a lot and my personal philosophy continues to develop (I hope) but inside I feel all the ages I've been so far. I find that some things don't mean as much or, for that matter, anything to me as I go through the life cycles. I've always been what I guess is a free spirit...described by the majority of my family and people I know and a few friends (you do learn that you can have a lot of false friends and true enemies) as eccentric. My mother told me she saw signs of this before I was two. I don't feel like looking up the Webster's definition of eccentric...I have a feeling I probably meet the criteria. Or, maybe I'm just nuts. Like the other day, week...on December 24TH, I was in a big supermarket. The day before Christmas Eve and people were pushing and shoving and acting as though they were the only human who had needs that had to be met. I popped out with a LOUD "Where's the holiday spirit in ShopRite? Why are so many of you acting like nobody counts but you?????? Be kind!!! Help the person next to you!!!" I didn't think about yelling this...it just popped out. Eccentric/crazy...who cares?...that's another thing...I really don't care what other people think of me...that does not mean I am not respectful of others...overly so, I think. But I have never been influenced by the in-crowd....not in school...or anytime during my life. Trends were of no interest to me. I have my own "style" and that's that! I like black clothes...usually I'm in black leotards, leg warmers, and some sort of black sweatshirt or top and I LOVE Birkenstocks!!!!! Winter with thoses rolly socks and love the freedom of summer....no socks.... Geeezzzz, I've been rambling. And these posts make you happy, Bob? Bye for now angels.... if I was right with you I'd give each of you a great big warm hug! Bo - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:49:02 -0600 From: "Dan Olson" Subject: Re: Sex Kills -->"an honest take" In a lot of Joni's early recordings, she overdubs herself on guitar, which creates a very rich and full sound (like a 12 string). Of course, she has always overdubbed her voice (sometimes sounding like a large chorus). Perhaps with her, an "honest take" would mean simply not fixing glitches. But of course, her live performances (especially the early televised ones) are remarkable for the polished performance (and perfect pitch). Later, when she recorded with others, it seems like they were playing together as a band, with notable exceptions. On Hejira, all of Jaco's parts were overdubbed, and on many of these, there were at least two Jaco parts. On 1/9/08, Bruce Eggleston wrote: > > Dear Dave, > > Thanks for bringing up "an honest take". These are almost a requisite > for my musical enjoyment. I'm several albums into a career as a > recording engineer and producer, so I have some insight on how > difficult it is to get that "live-in-the-studio-no-fixes take". > > My enjoyment is doubled knowing that a given song is an honest take. > Joni's early catalog seems replete with honest takes, even though I > don't know of any particular songs that were indeed such takes. > > I open the floor here, how many honest takes are on Joni's studio > albums? > > I read an interview with Crosby who said that he just got out of > Joni's way on STAS, which I take to mean that there was very little > over-dubbing going on in that studio. > > Bonneville Bruce > > NP - Hotel California > > > > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 07:09:23 -0800 > > From: Dave Blackburn < beatntrack@sbcglobal.net> > > Subject: Roine Stolt - Sex Kills > > > > Yeah Bob that's great....cool voice, tasty guitarist and funky band > > too. Looks like that might be a live-in-the-studio-no-fixes take > > also, another rarity these days (what I like to call "an honest > > take".) > > > > Is he Dutch or German? > > > > Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:23:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:49:51 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC I'm guessing Les Paul, not typically thought of as a singer but I know he was the first to overdub and he did do vocals. Bob NP: Chuck Prophet, "Downtime" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:11:23 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC Close but no cee-gar. Hint: It was a woman. > > > I'm guessing Les Paul, not typically thought of as a singer but I know he > was the first to overdub and he did do vocals. > > Bob > > NP: Chuck Prophet, "Downtime" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:06:10 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC Nope. >> thinking of mary ford? >> i saw les here in milw last year at a movie theatre >> - >> they previewed the american masters documentary that >> aired on pbs last summer. >> what a guy! >>> >>> >>> >>>> >> recording?> >>>> >>>> I'm guessing Les Paul, not typically thought of >> as >>> a singer but I know he >>>> was the first to overdub and he did do vocals. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> NP: Chuck Prophet, "Downtime" >>>> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > ______ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:29:10 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC From: "Jerry Notaro" > Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? > Most likely it was Mary Ford, since her husband, Les Paul was an early pioneer. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:28:31 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Jerry Notaro" > Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? Patti Page. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:05:37 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC According to ye Olde Wikipedia: "Perhaps the earliest commercial issue of recordings with overdubs was by RCA Victor in the late 1920s, not long after the introduction of electric microphones into the recording studio. Recordings by the late Enrico Caruso still sold well, so RCA took some of his early records made with only piano accompaniment, added a studio orchestra, and reissued the recordings." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overdub - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of waytoblue@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:29 PM To: Jerry Notaro; Dan Olson Cc: Bruce Eggleston; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Jerry Notaro" > Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? Patti Page. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:09:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC We were referring to someone overdubbing their own voice, in the manner that Joni did many times early on in her own recordings, not dubbing a singular voice track over a previously recorded music track. Jerry Richard Flynn wrote: > According to ye Olde Wikipedia: "Perhaps the earliest commercial issue of > recordings with overdubs was by RCA Victor in the late 1920s, not long > after > the introduction of electric microphones into the recording studio. > Recordings by the late Enrico Caruso still sold well, so RCA took some of > his early records made with only piano accompaniment, added a studio > orchestra, and reissued the recordings." > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overdub > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > waytoblue@comcast.net > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:29 PM > To: Jerry Notaro; Dan Olson > Cc: Bruce Eggleston; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Jerry Notaro" >> Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? > > Patti Page. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:57:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC We have a winner, folks! waytoblue@comcast.net wrote: > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Jerry Notaro" >> Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? > > Patti Page. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:44:59 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC What song was it? Details, please? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Notaro Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:58 PM To: waytoblue@comcast.net Cc: Jerry Notaro; Dan Olson; Bruce Eggleston; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC We have a winner, folks! waytoblue@comcast.net wrote: > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Jerry Notaro" >> Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? > > Patti Page. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:02:24 -0600 From: Cindy Vickery Subject: RE: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC I cheated, but found this. Not sure of the veracity, but interesting nonetheless. http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?p=105535 This guy claims it was opera singer Lawrence Tibbett in 1931. cindy > Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:57:34 -0500> Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC> From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu> To: waytoblue@comcast.net> CC: notaro@stpt.usf.edu; dgolson999@gmail.com; brucejuli@homeinternet.net; joni@smoe.org> > We have a winner, folks!> > waytoblue@comcast.net wrote:> > -------------- Original message - ----------------------> > From: "Jerry Notaro" > >> Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording?> >> > Patti Page. _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:08:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC The song was Confess: # About the same time, Mercury Records was planning to record the song as a vehicle for Frankie Laine. They were persuaded instead to give the song to a young female singer, who had not, at the time, a single hit: Patti Page. Page's manager, Jack Rael, succeeded in getting Mercury to let her record the song, but because of a low budget, a second singer could not be hired, so Rael suggested that Page sing the second part as well. The novelty of her doing two voices on one record probably contributed to the song becoming a top twenty hit for her. This became not only the first of many hits for Patti Page, but the first song on which a singer did more than one track. For Patti Page, multi-tracking became a trademark of her style, while others, such as Les Paul and Mary Ford, as well as Jane Turzy, took up this practice as well. Richard Flynn wrote: > What song was it? Details, please? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jerry > Notaro > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:58 PM > To: waytoblue@comcast.net > Cc: Jerry Notaro; Dan Olson; Bruce Eggleston; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC > > We have a winner, folks! > > waytoblue@comcast.net wrote: >> -------------- Original message ---------------------- >> From: "Jerry Notaro" >>> Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? >> >> Patti Page. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:26:51 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC > Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? It wasn't Patti Page. It wasn't a woman. It wasn't Les Paul, and the Caruso records don't fit the question, since it was the instrumental part that was added. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:33:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC Another source, New York Times, August 12, 2003: Miss Page was also the first to overdub vocals in the studio, essentially sounding as if she were singing in harmony with herself. The overdubbed song was ''Confess,'' in 1948. Randy Remote wrote: >> Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? > > It wasn't Patti Page. It wasn't a woman. It wasn't Les Paul, > and the Caruso records don't fit the question, since it was > the instrumental part that was added. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:41:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC From The Songwriters Hall of Fame: Her first success changed the recording industry forever and proved that necessity is indeed the mother of invention. The necessity was for backup singers on a song titled, Confess. They were to serve as an echo to Pattis vocal. The problem however, was that Patti and Rael couldnt afford to hire backup singers. The solution was found when the studio engineer used a revolutionary overdubbing technique that permitted Patti to be her own chorus and echo. Although modern historians have erroneously credited guitarist, Les Paul, with this innovation, it is now widely acknowledged that it began with Patti and Confess. Randy Remote wrote: >> Who was the first singer to overdubbibg in a recording? > > It wasn't Patti Page. It wasn't a woman. It wasn't Les Paul, > and the Caruso records don't fit the question, since it was > the instrumental part that was added. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:49:58 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Album and Song polls Joniphiles - A couple people have mentioned that the song and album polls on JMDL were a bit behind the times. Today I (finally) added Shine and updated the polls for the new year. Cast your vote here: http://jmdl.com/poll/albumpoll.cfm and here: http://jmdl.com/poll/songpoll.cfm Les (not the London one.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:27:55 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC From: "Jerry Notaro" > From The Songwriters Hall of Fame: Although modern historians have erroneously > credited guitarist, Les Paul, with this innovation, it is now widely > acknowledged that it began with Patti and "Confess." Urban myth. Cindy found it. 16 years earlier, it was Lawrence Tibbett. The forum discussion was Who was the very first Musician or musical group to OVERDUB! http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996583&page=49 also: http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?p=105535 From venerable recording engineer Bruce Swedien: It was all done with optical film sound. This is the earliest such event that I can find any clear-cut documentation of. In the 1931 MGM musical film, "The Cuban Love Song", Lawrence Tibbett sings the melody lead vocal part of the Stothart-Fields-McHugh title song, in his customary range, while an overdubbed, or superimposed, image of him harmonizes, to his melody vocal, in the tenor range. I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that this overdubbing was done using an optical film track. I would suppose that Lawrence Tibbett sang the melody lead vocal part, in his customary baritone range, with the orchestra. Then that recording was played back and he harmonized, to his melody vocal, in the tenor range, while the engineer mixed his original recording with the orchestra and his new tenor part, together on a new master composite mix optical sound track. That same year, RCA Victor Red Seal Records decided to make a commercial recording of "The Cuban Love Song" with Lawrence Tibbett. On December 10, 1931 Tibbett recorded the baritone melody part with an orchestra conducted by Nathaniel Shilkret. Two days later, on December 12, 1931, Tibbett came to the studio and overdubbed the tenor harmony part. The Victor Red Seal scroll label #1550-A reads "The Cuban Love Song", "Lawrence Tibbett - baritone, with orchestra. Mr. Tibbett also sings the tenor part." On August 26, 1935, Elisabeth Schumann walked into London's EMI Abbey Road Studio 3 and recorded "Abendsegen" ("Evening Prayer"), from Humperdinck's opera "Hansel and Gretel". The piece is a soprano-contralto duet. Two days later on August 28, she overdubbed her second part. Of course this radical new technique was not termed "Overdubbing" untill many years later. The HMV label for the record #DA 1439 reads: "Both voices sung by Elisabeth Schumann." In America the same selection was released on Victor Red Seal #1948 with the same credits. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:43:04 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: NJC Re: Responses to Digest #529...it's Bo NJC Yes indeed - I enjoy the stream of consciousness and conversational tone. And the emotion as well. I think all of us Joni fans are square pegs in one way or another, eccentric or however you want to call us. We are vastly similar due to our vast differences. Thanks too for your kind compliments about me - reading such makes it hard to stay humble, that's for sure. Bob NP: Madeleine Peyroux, "I'm All Right" - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:52:58 -0500 (EST) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC From the Dissertation on the most studied research of the specific subject: Listen to My Voice: The Evocative Power of Voice in Recorded Rock Music and other Forms of Vocal Expression Thesis submitted in accordance with the requirements of the University of Liverpool for the degree of Doctor in Philosophy by Serge Lacasse, 2000. Pages 127 and 128 of 303 pages:: According to Cunningham (1996: 21) and Shaughnessy (1993: 140), the first case of vocal overdubbing would be ‘The Cuban Song’ (1931), a feature song of the eponymous MGM musical movie, performed by opera singer Lawrence Tibbett (1896-1960) who would presumably have superimposed a harmonised vocal line on top of the original one. However, after having listened to the recording made on 28 October 1931 in New York, it is clear that there is no overdub: Tibbett simply sings his tune accompanied by pianist Stewart Wille.196 It was thus not before 1947 that the process seemingly really started to be used with vocals. Indeed, and as suggested in section 3.1.1.2.2 above, Patti Page’s ‘Confess’ (1947) is considered as the first official example of vocal overdubbing.197 Interestingly, the use of overdubbing in ‘Confess’ was not originally intended; rather, the process was adopted more for economical reasons, in harmony with the origins of the artistic-technological aesthetic discussed in section 3.0 above. There was just enough money to provide the George Barnes Trio for accompaniment, with none left over to hire another singer to provide ‘answers’ for Patti’s reading of the lyric, as the song required. [Page’s manager Jack] Rael came up with the positively inspired notion of having Patti answer herself, although many at first thought it technically impossible (Laredo 1991: [6]). of 303 pages: > From: "Jerry Notaro" >> From The Songwriters Hall of Fame: > Although modern historians have erroneously >> credited guitarist, Les Paul, with this innovation, it is now widely >> acknowledged that it began with Patti and "Confess." > > Urban myth. Cindy found it. 16 years earlier, it was > Lawrence Tibbett. > The forum discussion was Who was the very first Musician > or musical group to OVERDUB! > http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996583&page=49 > also: http://womb.mixerman.net/showthread.php?p=105535 > From venerable recording engineer Bruce Swedien: > > It was all done with optical film sound. This is the earliest such event > that I can find any clear-cut documentation of. > In the 1931 MGM musical film, "The Cuban Love Song", Lawrence Tibbett > sings > the melody lead vocal part of the Stothart-Fields-McHugh title song, in > his > customary range, while an overdubbed, or superimposed, image of him > harmonizes, to his melody vocal, in the tenor range. > I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that this overdubbing was done > using an optical film track. I would suppose that Lawrence Tibbett sang > the > melody lead vocal part, in his customary baritone range, with the > orchestra. > Then that recording was played back and he harmonized, to his melody > vocal, > in the tenor range, while the engineer mixed his original recording with > the > orchestra and his new tenor part, together on a new master composite mix > optical sound track. > That same year, RCA Victor Red Seal Records decided to make a commercial > recording of "The Cuban Love Song" with Lawrence Tibbett. On December 10, > 1931 Tibbett recorded the baritone melody part with an orchestra conducted > by Nathaniel Shilkret. > Two days later, on December 12, 1931, Tibbett came to the studio and > overdubbed the tenor harmony part. The Victor Red Seal scroll label > #1550-A > reads "The Cuban Love Song", "Lawrence Tibbett - baritone, with orchestra. > Mr. Tibbett also sings the tenor part." > On August 26, 1935, Elisabeth Schumann walked into London's EMI Abbey Road > Studio 3 and recorded "Abendsegen" ("Evening Prayer"), from Humperdinck's > opera "Hansel and Gretel". The piece is a soprano-contralto duet. Two days > later on August 28, she overdubbed her second part. Of course this radical > new technique was not termed "Overdubbing" untill many years later. The > HMV > label for the record #DA 1439 reads: "Both voices sung by Elisabeth > Schumann." In America the same selection was released on Victor Red Seal > #1948 with the same credits. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:03:07 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Recording and overdubbing - trivia- NJC From: > there is no overdub: Tibbett simply sings his tune accompanied by pianist > Stewart Wille.196 It > was thus not before 1947 that the process seemingly really started to be > used with vocals. Even if that is true (and Swedien is a pretty authoritive figure in the audio world), you still have the Abbey Road record of 1935. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:05:09 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: NJC Re: Responses to Digest #529...it's Bo > Oh...Monika...BAD news....if you think that once you reach your > 30's you'll have everything together? I seriously doubt it. I HOPE > so. I HOPE life treats you with sensitivity and you grow happier > with each passing decade...but, the older I grow the more untogether > I feel. It's also interesting....you take all of your ages with > you...you don't lose anything...you enhance yourself with more of > life's experiences...more knowledge etc. but you are really the same > person you were in your early 20's (or younger, in my case) with > similar thoughts and emotions. It all depends on how life treats > you and how you treat life. I read a lot and my personal philosophy > continues to develop (I hope) but inside I feel all the ages I've > been so far. I find that some things don't mean as much or, for > that matter, anything to me as I go through the life cycles. I've > always been what I guess is a free spirit... Great description Bo! I feel very much the same way. I'm in my late 30's and I still don't have everything together. But I'm a free spirit as well and I love the serendipity of life. I just started an internship at a local elementary school so I'll be hanging out with K-5th graders all semester...which is so cool. You get a totally different perspective being around little people all day. Anyway, life is for learning and I would never want to stop learning. My friends and I laugh so much when we are hanging out you might think we were half our age but there's no reason that you have to get all serious and solemn when you reach a certain age. Usually, I don't feel a particular age either. But I always feel that I become more myself all the time, An eternal quest for nirvana... Victor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 00:45:46 -0000 From: "Paul Headon" Subject: Joni in uk :-) I thought you might be interested in this http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/teesvalley/display.var.1946992.0. photographer_inspired_by_joni_mitchell.php cheers Paul Headon From Wales ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:12:02 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Clapton bio (njc) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Remote" To: "Monika Bogdanowicz" ; "Joni people!" Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Clapton bio (njc) > As a person, my impression is that he is a real heel-at least > that's the impression I got after reading Patti Boyd's book. > Is the bio everyone is talking about his autobiography? If so, I read an excerpt from it in Vanity Fair. It sounds like he was a heel as far as Patti was concerned, pretty self-involved and messed up. But by the time he talks about finally getting clean and sober and then having his son die, he is starting to sound pretty humbled. I read the article while doing the 'Star Trekker' machine (or whatever the hell it is - some nights I'd call it 'the torturer's rack') at Gold's Gym and I remember when I started it, I thought he was a real a**hole. By the time I got to the end, I was feeling more sympathetic toward him. I'm afraid Clapton is a big gap in my musical experience. I was never interested enough to check him out. Maybe because I've always been more drawn to female performers than male. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:09:34 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni in uk :-) Thanks for posting that. I hope the folks who get to see this enjoy it. It's always good to read Joni inspiring others, especially artistically. -Monika Paul Headon wrote: I thought you might be interested in this http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/teesvalley/display.var.1946992.0. photographer_inspired_by_joni_mitchell.php cheers Paul Headon From Wales - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:11:28 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: NJC Warning: U.S. political content.... I had no idea who he was either until the quiz! It is easy to say his chances are slim to none as far as the Presidency goes. -M Laura Stanley wrote: Hi Monika, Interesting quiz! My results were: Bill Richardson at 78% Edwards 14% Hillary 13% Obama 0%. Who is Bill Richardson?! LOLLLL Love, Laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:19:22 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: NJC Re: Responses to Digest #529...it's Bo Well I just meant together as far as having a place to go every morning or afternoon that pays me enough to live off of that I enjoy, a place of my own (God willing, let me get out of Ohio!), and good company--in terms of friends or whoever (no offense to current friends but honestly they let me down quite a bit). I agree with both of you on a search though. That lasts your entire life...we'd be very, very lucky if we actually got ourselves together and found what we're looking for. I understand what both of you are saying though. I always feel like something is missing as well though I have no idea what it is. That is a search that unfortunately will probably have no end. I used to always want an extraordinary life where I would make some sort of a difference each and everyday but now...all I want...atleast.... is an ordinary life. Even that, seems hard to achieve. -Monika Victor Johnson wrote: > Oh...Monika...BAD news....if you think that once you reach your > 30's you'll have everything together? I seriously doubt it. I HOPE > so. ---------------------------------------- But I always feel that I become more myself all the time, An eternal quest for nirvana... Victor - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:26:04 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: NJC Warning: U.S. political content.... On Jan 10, 2008, at 10:11 PM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > I had no idea who he was either until the quiz! It is easy to > say his chances are slim to none as far as the Presidency goes. > -M Very true, particularly so since he withdrew from the race a couple of days ago. I took the quiz as well and oddly scored high with him also. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:24:13 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDLRe: new joni interview in mojo Wow! What a powerful, beautiful post Bruce. Thank you for representing. High Five! >My (our) generation is still very actively changing the world in thousands of subtle ways. I am a city planner, I plan cities with the knowledge and attitude of one who believes that peace and love will prevail. My wife is a school teacher who teaches the next generations about peace and love and how it will prevail. Most of our peers have conducted careers in which they propagated the ideals of the Sixties in some fashion. This is the real world for the Sixties generation, going to work every day to make some kind of difference, however small.< Bonneville Bruce On the path of the peaceful warrior ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:30:15 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Clapton bio (njc) I feel so lucky to have grown up listening to Cream. Maybe that is why I forgive Eric for being human instead of god. LOL. Running on Faith was my/our wedding song. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:23:33 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC NJC Warning: U.S. political content.... Thanks monica, I took it & like you, it reinforced my choice - obama with Edwards a close second >I found this very interesting and helpful. It reinforced my stance the candidate who I already support. http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/ You can take a quiz to see which Presidential candidate's views you most agree with. I said I'm voting Clinton, and Clinton was indeed my result in the quiz!< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:40:52 -0800 From: "andrew neave" Subject: Re: Clapton overated Muller said :- > > > Darice, thanks for this - I feel the same way. Clapton has to be one of > the most over-rated musicians of all time. He had the wisdom or good luck > to surround himself with some of the finest guitar players ever and basked > in their glow. > it's a bigger mistake still as his vocals are also tepid and complacent. You must be joking,, I suppose that Hendrix was stupid like you !! Hendrix only had a few peers and Clapton was one of them Hendrix hanged out with Clapton sometimes played on stage with him and played Cream tracks. The wheels of fire live CD bearing in mind when they played these Concerts late 60s was it, you can not help but appreciate and be amazed at the three of them playing/ let alone Claptons solo on Crossroads Now not many people were Jamming like Cream were in those days (15min Spoonfull),so to say that A To Z Blues guitarists that played in the seventies 80s 90s and on, and on are far better than Clapton and that he is Overated is stupid to the point of being Ignorant because you could say he did it first ???? along with Hendrix and Santana and a few more, He is a Blues artist and if you dont like the Blues then dont listen,but dont degrade his Historic ability Everybody accepts that Layla is a masterpiece as says Tom Dowd on a Documentery I saw on HBO If your only joking !!!!!!!! how stupid again Me i think that Pat Metheny has and is the Best Guitarist in the world he can play any style and his finger work is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 01:57:47 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Eric Taylor Subject: Don Juan's Reckless Quetzalcoatl Joni said: "In their youth, my generation was ready to change the world, but when the baton was passed to them in the '70s, they fell into a mass depression because all revolutionaries are quick to demolish and slow to fix. When handed the baton to fix it, they didn't know what to do so they kind of degenerated into the greediest generation in the history of America." Okay i didn't add NJC to the subject line because this is pure Joni. Being a baby boomer whose first album was Meet The Beatles (which i requested for Christmas in 1965), fell in love with Joni's music back in high school and have tried to live the hippy dream ever since i totally agree with Joni's brutal assessment of yuppy progress!!! O the oblivious self-absorbsion of our spoiled rotten generation! It occurred to me very recently, after decades contemplating the increasing massive mess we're in, that Joni is the purest voice of Quetzalcoatl in our sorry age. What we all really need is a good spanking and Joni certainly delivers it & with SUCH beauty & grace *but* we hopefully still have until 2012 to get our collective act together. Otherwise we are just mere stardust, not golden..... Am i "growling"? ET NR: 2012; The Return Of Quetzalcoatl (concerned people really need to contemplate this important book) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:48:48 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Eric Taylor Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell; A Stormy Love Affair With Christ Bene shared: >>I wanted to find something on Joni and Christianity for my friend who is convinced that Joni is a new-born Christian and stumbled over this peculiar article by Michael Moriarty: Joni Mitchell: A Stormy Love Affair with Christ. http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=963 << Joni's constant wrestling with God has always been one of the things that most attracts me to her profound music. She is more like Jacob than Job, grasping the angel by its thigh all night until she finally gets a blessing at dawn. I love this about Bono too but he is not nearly as talented..... Thank you for sharing this link, Bene! ET ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:45:37 -0800 From: Subject: Clapton (njc) Well, Randy echoed most of my own exact thoughts. When I think of Clapton I think of Cream and Blind Faith, and also the Yardbirds with Clapton, Beck and Page. They put out those rare albums where I still remember where I was and what I was doing when I first heard them (just like most of Joni's albums). Clapton's work is like Hits and some Misses to me, just like Joni. The sum more than equals the parts. The Clapton bio arrived today and I will probably finish it over the weekend. I also want to read Patti Boyd's book. Probably like most, if I think the the music is exceptional and original, I am not as concerned with the artist's personal travails and foibles. I already knew Clapton was a bad boy way back, but also like the later part of the story where he overcomes many of his demons. At least he survived and seemed to try to become a better human before it was too late. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #530 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------