From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #479 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, November 29 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 479 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Coyote from T'log ["Eric Taylor" ] Money makes the trees come down (but also go up) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: A Day In The Garden (?) [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Nice blog post about Woodstock [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Re: What do ya'll think of this?, njc [sweetbirdur ] Re: River (Joni... beautifully covered by Cary Cooper) [Bob.Muller@Fluor.] Re: A Reply To The Only and The Most Disgusting Post I Have Ever Read on JMDL. njc [Em ] Re: Who would play Joni in a movie? ["Marian Russell" ] Re: Coyote from T'log [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Bootlegs, now becomes "Travelogue". Plus a few thoughts... [Rian Afr] RE: What do ya'll think of this?, njc [Danilo Monno Subject: Coyote from T'log hey all ye Joni freaks! Sorry if I'm so slow but is there a place I can hear the version of Coyote removed at the last minute from Travelogue? I can't even begin to fathom this awesome song being played by the London Symphony Orchestra. ET 'Shine on the pioneers those seekers of mental health' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:10:54 -0500 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Money makes the trees come down (but also go up) I'm in the process of researching and writing what I call One Trillion Trees. That is roughly how many fast growing new trees and bamboos it would require to offset the 8 billion metric tons of CO2 we humans dump into our lovely sky every year. I still need lots of help with the math but I figure in my mind that, since one redwood converts 50 pounds of carbon into oxygen every year, it would require 40 redwoods to remove one ton of carbon from the atmosphere every year. So, still in my mind, it would require about one trillion redwoods to offset our carbon output. Taking it one step further, each of us 6.6 billion humans on earth today would have to plant about 200 redwoods to offset global warming. Interesting that redwoods (Sequoia) were the predominant trees on every continent at the time dinosaurs were made extinct by an asteroid striking earth millions of years ago! Last time by a random strike. This time by our own hand. I've planted over 100 trees in my lifetime. Pondering this massive mess we're in, I vow to plant 100 trees every year for the rest of my life. We've GOT to get ourselves back to the garden! ET 'Holy Earth how can we heal you?' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:58:59 -0800 (PST) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: A Reply To The Only and The Most Disgusting Post I Have Ever Read on JMDL. njc Laura's dad essay REALLY hurts and insults my feeling. The essay is SO unfair, only covered one point of view. >>>Why were we attacked? Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. +++This SO ridiculous. ENVY? WHAT?? ENVY? Oh! So SHALLOW! HAHAHA!!!! Laura, ask your dad this : why do those terrorists hate America? >>>>> 3. Who were the attackers? In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims 4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%. +++PLEASE. Let me tell you. The percentage of the terrorist is SO SMALL. So unsignificant. The essay sounds like trying to say all 25% are terrorists. Well. I AM a muslim. And i have to tell you this: I, and 99.99999999999999999% of muslims, hate the terrorist either. What the terrorists do is out of Islam. What they do is NOT BASED on the Al-Quran or the Hadiths. You can not say something a muslim thing, if that things does NOT based on Al-Quran and the Hadiths. >>>> Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully,... ++++. OK. Let us analyze the word hopefully. Lauras Dad used the word hopefully because HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT ISLAM IS ALL ABOUT. His writing does not have validity. I DARE him to read the Al-Quran. And i also recommend the JMDLers to read the Quran by yourself so that you can see things from ALL sides. >>>>What is happening in Iraq is a good example. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the 'peaceful Muslims'? ++++ Again Laura, this is so SHALLOW. I recommend your dad to read history books. Laura, Shine on your dad. Peace. Rian. PS. This list should not be used to spread hate. PLEEEEASE. PS. : A gift for you all: From The Exordium of The Koran. Bismillaahirrahmaanirrahiim Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe, Ar-rahmaanirrahiim The Compassionate, the Merciful, Maaliki yaumiddiin Sovereign of the Day of Judgement! Iyyaaka na'budu wa iyyaaka nasta 'iin You alone we worship, and to You alone we turn for help. Ihdinas-shiraatal-mustaqiim Guide us to the straight path, Shiraatallaziina an'amta 'alaihim ghairil magduubialaihim waladdzaalliin. The path of those whom You have favoured, Not of those who have incurred Your wrath, Nor of those who have gone astray. (Amiin) (Amen) - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 05:01:59 -0800 (PST) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: Re: Change Coming In. NJC Well, Mark, I, personally, and on the behalf of Australia's closest neighbor, would like to congratulate the winning of Mr. Rudd. May this tighten the friendship of our country. Rian NP. Elfas Singers  Jakarta Jakarta PS. I hope Hillary will ratify The Kyoto Protocol too, someday. - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:05:11 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: A Day In The Garden (?) Rian, You can read the first-hand reports here: http://jmdl.com/events/event.cfm?id=84 http://jmdl.com/events/event.cfm?id=43 http://jmdl.com/events/event.cfm?id=53 http://jmdl.com/events/event.cfm?id=85 Bob NP: John Mayer, "Stop This Train" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:09:14 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Nice blog post about Woodstock She sings the PG version. You can see the 1965 video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp3lJg07u4w Awesome stuff. Bob NP: Badly Drawn Boy, "Bedside Story" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:21:08 -0600 From: sweetbirdur Subject: Re: Re: What do ya'll think of this?, njc Hi Steve, Thank you for complimenting my dad, but he didn't write the essay; Dr. Chong a retired AF surgeon did. I found Dr. Chong's views outlined in his essay to be surgical-minded and am not convinced his ideas concerning dealing with terrorism can lead to effective treatment given that the terrorists aren't a visible mass like historical enemies such as the Nazi's were but are more like an infiltrative and hidden infection. Using traditional means to deal with this sort of enemy is draining us rather than protecting us in my opinion. I liked Dr. Chong's plea for unity, and if he is serious in pursuing unity maybe he will unite with those who would like to see more effort spent on our homeland security and on teaching civilians actions that can be taken here at home to counter terrorism. For example, a better informed public might be less susceptible to being bought out by potential enemies. Instead, we seem to be concentrating on strong-arming it which is probably just what terrorists want. Our military solutions leave us like sitting ducks here at home while our resources are spent on a wild goose chase overseas. My dad didn't say to me he agrees with Dr. Chong but did say he found the essay, "interesting." Like father like daughter, so did I. Love, Laura On Nov 29, 2007, at 4:59:59 AM, Steve Langford wrote: From: Steve Langford Subject: Re: What do ya'll think of this?, njc Date: 11/29/07 To: sweetbirdur sweetbirdur wrote: > Hi Jonilistas, > > > My dad, a retired AF Lt. Colonel, recently send this to me (below). I > would like to hear your opinion about this essay. > > > Love and appreciation, > Laura - -- 29 November 2007 Dear Laura, You are very lucky to have such a dad. I can think of Singapore as one possibly Muslim nation that is productive and that affords its women a good measure of equality . . . but I don't really know enough about Singapore to back up my impression with any authority at all. By and large, I strongly agree with your dad and have hungered over the years since 11 September 2001 to hear others who dare to express his views with such clarity. Perhaps he should write a book, but in any case his views need to be shared as openly and effectively as possible. I don't think that we can afford to wait until the next US Presidentail election is held, either. I am also greatly troubled by how blithely we let Muslims buy into our infrastructure. They can decide to bring world financial markets down in an instant, given all their recent, open purchases. What have they already bought that we don't know about? What is being done to protect us all from losing our assets, our future financial security? Against the backdrop of what you just shared from your dad, such considerations might seem to be trivial, but I think that financial war might become as devastating to our society as anything that could be done through such more obvious means as bombing a few major cities with dirty bombs. Yes, this war is real, and most Americans are acting pretty stupid about it all. My advice? Listen to your father! :-) Thanks for sharing all that. Maybe you could share it to good effect with Glenn Beck and others in the media who can broadcast your dad's views. - -Steve- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:17:35 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: RE: What do ya'll think of this?, njc ..i really don't have time for this but feel compelled to reply. Well, first off it's irritating to me to read this as it is intended to instill fear and fear as we know is the mother of violence. So I'm never likely to get on board with anything of value being written when fear is the motivating and ultimately blinding component. I take issue with the notion that 'position, success and freedom' as being the reason why the US is the focus of terrorist intent. One need only recognise (and to do so in itself is an issue) the US's 'influence' in politically unstable parts of the world. Questioning not least why they end up being unstable in the first place. England does not have more mosques than churches. That's just absurd. And all that nonsense about disapearing states, France, Spain and the UK. Well, again, this only serves to underwrite the author's scaremongering intent and is an insulting and fatuous load of bo##ocks. Regardless of creed, the population of the world is hell bent on living a peaceful life. I use that expression advisedly. I do believe that a complacency exists which at its heart is a good thing. I do believe, however, that those so disposed to terror (and I include in that group the author and corporate greed advocates) are exploiting that complacency to instil fear and allow national and economic stratification to manifest diversion from their cynical agendas. I think the movie Lions for Lambs made a faltering attempt in part to address this in an entertainment form. But, whatever, I'm very far from being an informed opinion on this topic. I do however despise what this person wrote. Blah blah blah blah blah. Hugs Lesbert - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of sweetbirdur Sent: 29 November 2007 05:36 To: joni@smoe.org Subject: What do ya'll think of this?, njc Hi Jonilistas, My dad, a retired AF Lt. Colonel, recently send this to me (below). I would like to hear your opinion about this essay. Love and appreciation, Laura If you would like to see who this writer is, go to this Air Force web site and look him up: http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5000 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA : A different spin on Iraq war. This WAR is for REAL! Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII) The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means. First, let's examine a few basics 1. When did the threat to us start Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us: * Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979; * Beirut , Lebanon Embassy 1983; * Beirut , Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983; * Lockerbie , Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988; * First New York World Trade Center attack 1993; * Dhahran , Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996; * Nairobi , Kenya US Embassy 1998; * Dares Salaam , Tanzania US Embassy 1998; * A! den, Yemen USS Cole 2000; * New York World Trade Center 2001;* Pentagon 2001. (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide). 2. Why were we attacked? Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessor, President Ford. 3. Who were the attackers? In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims 4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%. 5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian (?)), that made no difference. You either went along with the ad ministration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (seehttp://www.Nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm) Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others. Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US , but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, British, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements - -- killing all of us 'infidels.' I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die? 6. So who are we at war with? There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting. So with that background, now to the two major questions: 1 Can we lose this war? 2 What does losing really mean? If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions: We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean? It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get. What losing really means is We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was, clearly, for terrorists to attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them. We would, of course, have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see; we are impotent and cannot help them. They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished. The next will probably be France Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast! Without our support Great Britain will go too. Recently I read that there are more mosques in England than churches. If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslim terrorists, how could anyone else? The radical Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost. Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win. So, how can we lose the war? Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by 'imploding.' That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win! Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation. President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently. And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then. Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him? No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head. Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I think some actually do, I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause. Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. ! And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq . And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held. Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the 'humiliating' of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but 'humiliating' them. Can they be for real? The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can. To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years. These people are a serious and dangerous liability to the war effort. We must take note of who they are and get them out of office. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States , but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't! If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated. And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world. This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self- inflicted fall of the Roman Empire If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read. If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar? Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power. Muslims have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over whom will be the few who control the masses What is happening in Iraq is a good example. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the 'peaceful Muslims'? I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now, after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it. I reiterate. A national election is months away. After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world. Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:37:37 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: River (Joni... beautifully covered by Cary Cooper) OK, I have to come clean - "I" am actually BobMuller Inc, LLC. We are a Joni Mitchell-related franchise. There are currently 10 of us on staff & we are looking to add 2 more employees in 2008 as this year has been so big in Joni-related business. Of course, the above is not true. The truth is I'm just pretty darn efficient, and after tracking Joni covers for as long as I have I have a streamlined process that works quite well. All that being said, I greatly appreciate any assistance and interest I get. Besides, I *just* did beat you with the scoop on this one, so don't be too hard on yourself. On another subject near & dear to your heart I saw a very cool picture in VF of the Munchkins reunion and immediately thought of you Susan - anytime I see a Wizard of Oz reference I think of you. Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Time Out Of Mind" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 05:39:33 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: A Reply To The Only and The Most Disgusting Post I Have Ever Read on JMDL. njc Rian, I'm sorry you had to read that and be hurt by it. Very sorry. I can only imagine how painful and irritating it must be. Many people over here (USA) are terribly fearful. Fearful of living somewhere they interpret as being unsafe and unsecure. Fact is, the American existence has always been somewhat unsafe and unsecure for many people. But when it comes in the form of attacks by people from other countries and happens on our soil, people just go nuts. More 9-11 attacks are just not permissable. So they go after it the only way they feel they can. War. Put on the bigger boots, get out the bigger hammer and go stomp around "over there". The man who wrote that (not Laura's father btw) is a warrior. So it follows that he would subscribe to the practice of his "trade". Making war. Em ps: what I'd be interested to know, from our couple of listers in Spain, is if they feel the SWEEPING statement "Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished." is true. I find it hard to believe. - --- Rian Afriadi wrote: > Laura's dad essay REALLY hurts and insults my feeling. > The essay is SO unfair, only covered one point of view. > snip... > +++PLEASE. Let me tell you. The percentage of the terrorist is SO > SMALL. So unsignificant. The essay sounds like trying to say all 25% > are terrorists. Well. I AM a muslim. And i have to tell you this: I, > and 99.99999999999999999% of muslims, hate the terrorist either. What > the terrorists do is out of Islam. What they do is NOT BASED on the > Al-Quran or the Hadiths. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:05:48 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: RE: Re: What do ya'll think of this?, njc ...remind me, where exactly is the 'Muslim' influence when US banks suicidally ran at sub-prime lending and further underpinned the economic security of world markets when they then sold on the 'risk' to Banks around the world? (more fool them...) Greed made this happen. Greed, greed and more greed. Oh, and stupidity. But what the heck, stupid's cool so long as my coffers are full. Shiney toys. And this 'stuff' about "how blithely we let Muslims buy into our infrastructure"!! Am I the only person here picking up a comparable 'take' with respect to the Jewish experience in history? Laura suggests that the element within Chong's writing of a 'coming together' to address this situation. Well, it's my sincere belief that the success of Big Money influence rather precludes that possibility. Why? Well, I reckon I can be taken as an example. Economically, I run to stand still. I'm well paid and have modest material demands but I'm constantly aware that if I take my eye off the ball professionally I'm going to end up destitute. If what I read about people's economic exposure has any truth in it, I'm probably considerably better off than most. The majority of the population in the developed 'west' (a term I use here to include all the countries of the world who've taken 'the chocolate' in the form of material slavery) have been so convinced of the need for material acquisition in their lives that they've placed themselves in positions of slavery to their employers, the banks and the credit card companies to the extent that they can't even find the time or wherewithal to properly address the responsibility to vote their politicians into power. Lay on top of that a perceived (however real or otherwise) national or global threat and they are all too willing to cede that responisbility to so-called government and to make that problem go away. It's just too much. Suddenly our 'leaders' have a mandate. A fearful population, where that fear is not allowed to boil over, is an eminently manageable population. So, no coming together, not so long as people live in private fear never mind global anxieties. Kinda the authors of their own doom. 'spose. La dee dah Lesmond of the widening gyre. - -- 29 November 2007 Dear Laura, You are very lucky to have such a dad. I can think of Singapore as one possibly Muslim nation that is productive and that affords its women a good measure of equality . . . but I don't really know enough about Singapore to back up my impression with any authority at all. By and large, I strongly agree with your dad and have hungered over the years since 11 September 2001 to hear others who dare to express his views with such clarity. Perhaps he should write a book, but in any case his views need to be shared as openly and effectively as possible. I don't think that we can afford to wait until the next US Presidentail election is held, either. I am also greatly troubled by how blithely we let Muslims buy into our infrastructure. They can decide to bring world financial markets down in an instant, given all their recent, open purchases. What have they already bought that we don't know about? What is being done to protect us all from losing our assets, our future financial security? Against the backdrop of what you just shared from your dad, such considerations might seem to be trivial, but I think that financial war might become as devastating to our society as anything that could be done through such more obvious means as bombing a few major cities with dirty bombs. Yes, this war is real, and most Americans are acting pretty stupid about it all. My advice? Listen to your father! :-) Thanks for sharing all that. Maybe you could share it to good effect with Glenn Beck and others in the media who can broadcast your dad's views. - -Steve- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:10:31 +0000 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: Coyote from T'log Is there a coyote from T'log? First I've heard of it.... wow that would be amazing! On 29/11/2007, Eric Taylor wrote: > hey all ye Joni freaks! > > Sorry if I'm so slow but is there a place I can hear the version of Coyote removed at the last minute from Travelogue? > > I can't even begin to fathom this awesome song being played by the London Symphony Orchestra. > > ET > > > 'Shine on the pioneers > those seekers of mental health' > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Facebook me! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:28:10 +0100 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: Who would play Joni in a movie? Jeri Ryan (Seven of Nine) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lindsay Moon" To: "joni list" Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: Who would play Joni in a movie? > I've always thought Sissy Spacek. She has the cheekbones and seems > small-ish and slight like Joni can sometimes look. > > Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:30:29 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Coyote from T'log Nope. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Untitled Track" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:32:07 -0800 (PST) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: Re: Bootlegs, now becomes "Travelogue". Plus a few thoughts... I wrote: Then Bob wrote: But then again, very few of the songs do. My turn: Yes Bob, youre right. My favorite travelogued songs are ROTR, Amelia, JOTMAS, Jobs Sad Song, and The Last Time I Saw Richard My least favorite: God Must Be A Boogie Man, Woodstock, Be Cool, and You Dream Flat Tires Travelogued The Last Time I Saw Richard was the first song that featured husky-voiced-Joni that i heard. That was 2 years ago. And when she sang the first line the last time i saw...,... Amazed! It was a huge surprise. At that time, i only had her 1968-1974 albums, helium-voiced Joni. I had no idea about her late 70s, her 80s, or her 90s sounds. I was experiencing something that is similar to the native Papuans who suddenly faced the 21st century. Rian NP. Travelogued Amelia PS. Some Papuan tribes are still naked, don't use metal (only use stones and bones), live in the dense Papuan forest. Some tribes who have already been introduced to modern civilizations are now facing cultural shock. Some who have dealt with cutural shock, proved that Papuans are bright-minded. God created humans equally. We are all precious. Races do not have any relation with the brightness of human minds. The main players of this world (past or present) become the main player of this world because they have chances to soar. Not because they are more cleverer than the others. Well, shine on us. - --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:50:51 +0100 From: Danilo Monno Subject: RE: What do ya'll think of this?, njc Let me tell you, the most serious threat to their existence your country and the whole world are facing is George W. Bush. It's unbelievable that someone still makes a matter of religion of the attacks of 9/11. You should care about your government, first. It's affecting the world. So what about the unfound weapons of mass destruction? Isn't it terrorism as well? You re-elected Bush who lied about that, when you were ready to impeach Clinton who lied about the Lewinsky affaire. Weird Americans... Danilo > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:36:05 -0600 > Subject: What do ya'll think of this?, njc > From: sweetbirdur@aol.com > To: joni@smoe.org > > Hi Jonilistas, > > > My dad, a retired AF Lt. Colonel, recently send this to me (below). I > would like to hear your opinion about this essay. > > > Love and appreciation, > Laura > > > > > If you would like to see who this writer is, go to this Air Force web > site and look him up: > http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5000 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA : A different spin on Iraq war. > > > > This WAR is for REAL! > > > > Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired > > > > To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our > country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we > know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes > WWII) > > > > The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are > very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer > who realize what losing really means. > > > > First, let's examine a few basics > > > > 1. When did the threat to us start > > > > Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United > States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the > following attacks on us: > * Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979; > * Beirut , Lebanon Embassy 1983; > * Beirut , Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983; > * Lockerbie , Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988; > * First New York World Trade Center attack 1993; > * Dhahran , Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996; > * Nairobi , Kenya US Embassy 1998; > * Dares Salaam , Tanzania US Embassy 1998; > * A! den, Yemen USS Cole 2000; > * New York World Trade Center 2001;* Pentagon 2001. > > > > (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 > terrorist attacks worldwide). > > > > 2. Why were we attacked? > > > > Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks > happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush > 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or > Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or > their immediate predecessor, President Ford. > > > > 3. Who were the attackers? > > > > In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims > > > > 4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%. > > > > 5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? > > > > Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the > predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under > the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian (?)), that > made no difference. You either went along with the ad ministration or > you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by > the Nazis for political reasons (including > 7,000 Polish priests). > > > > (seehttp://www.Nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm) > > > > Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as > the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom > heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler > kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing > anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over > the world - German, Christian or any others. > > > > Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US , but > kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, British, French > or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans > were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many > peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the > terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- > by their own pronouncements > -- killing all of us 'infidels.' I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. > What would you do if the choice was shut up or die? > > > > 6. So who are we at war with? > > > > There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than > the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid > verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win > if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting. > > > > So with that background, now to the two major questions: > > > > 1 Can we lose this war? > > > > 2 What does losing really mean? > > > > If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions: > > > > We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the > major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the > answer to the second question - What does losing mean? > > > > It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means > hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our > business, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can > get. > > > > What losing really means is > > > > We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks > will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they > want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they > would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, > over the past 18 years. The plan was, clearly, for terrorists to > attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them. > > > > We would, of course, have no future support from other nations, for > fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see; we are > impotent and cannot help them. > > > > They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It > will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain > hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to > withdraw its troops from Iraq Spain did it because the Muslim > terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. > Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished. > > > > The next will probably be France Our one hope on France is that they > might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished > too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. > However, it may already be too late for France France is already 20% > Muslim and fading fast! > > > > Without our support Great Britain will go too. Recently I read that > there are more mosques in England than churches. > > > > If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life > will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal > with us if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the > Muslim terrorists, how could anyone else? > > > > The radical Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and > therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better > know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost. > > > > Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. > Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put > 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take > that 100% effort to win. > > > > So, how can we lose the war? > > > > Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by 'imploding.' That > is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their > purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war > effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we > continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win! > > > > Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the > life and death seriousness of this situation. > > > > President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. > Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men > between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow > profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? > This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of > the civil rights we have become accustomed. We had better be prepared > to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly > lose all of them permanently. > > > > And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of > civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the > victory and in fact added many more since then. > > > > Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him? > > > > No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our > Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict > and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to > war. Get them out of your head. > > > > Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the > Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us > lose. > > > > I think some actually do, I hasten to add that this isn't because they > are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing > means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy > that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it > does great damage to our cause. > > > > Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media > regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies > best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the > treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our > military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months > ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their > hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own > people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. ! > > > > And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed > 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the > same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and > dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq . And still > more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos > to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American > prisoners they held. > > > > Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several > days have thought and talked about nothing else but the 'humiliating' > of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their > charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but > 'humiliating' them. > > > > Can they be for real? > > > > The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the > Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of > comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are > fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous > results of losing this war, nothing can. > > > > To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this > prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome > burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. > Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. > Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media > people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely > oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which > the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years. > > > > These people are a serious and dangerous liability to the war effort. > We must take note of who they are and get them out of office. > Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! > That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States , > but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense. > > > > We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge > is valid. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, > powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those > who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can > defeat anything bad in the world! We can't! > > > > If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, > and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated. > > > > And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow > freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of > the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status > or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way > that contributes to the good of the world. > > > > This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war > or we will be equated in the history books to the self- inflicted fall > of the Roman Empire If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow > history books to be written or read. > > > > If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims > take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to > increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach > little by little, on the established French traditions. > > > > The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or > should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them > from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar? > > > > Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some > external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, > politically correct piece by politically correct piece. > > > > And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, > worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even > to themselves, once they are in power. > > > > Muslims have universally shown that when they have taken over, they > then start brutally killing each other over whom will be the few who > control the masses > > > > What is happening in Iraq is a good example. Will we ever stop hearing > from the politically correct, about the 'peaceful Muslims'? > > > > I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are > united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now, after the > election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the > critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It > is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve > it. I reiterate. A national election is months away. > > > > After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, > but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world. > Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that > includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world! > > _________________________________________________________________ Scarica GRATIS 30 emoticon per Messenger! http://www.emoticons-livemessenger.com/pages/msnit/index.htm ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #479 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------