From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #478 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, November 29 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 478 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Change Coming On [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Change Coming On NJC [Em ] Re: JMLD : Joni Mitchell Lyric Discussion: Judgement of The Moon And Stars. [Rian Afriadi ] Bootlegs... Just an idea [Rian Afriadi ] Re: JMLD : Joni Mitchell Lyric Discussion: Judgement of The Moon And Stars. ["Jamie's Box of Paints" ] Re: Bootlegs... Just an idea [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: JMLD : Joni Mitchell Lyric Discussion: Judgement of The Moon And Stars.now njc [Catherine McKay ] Nice blog post about Woodstock [Bob Muller ] Details on the Leora Cashe Joni Tribute CD [Bob Muller ] Shine [Suzanne MarcAurele ] Re: Nice blog post about Woodstock [Victor Johnson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:11:55 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Change Coming On There is a positive change in the air in this part of the world. We finally have a new government after a record 4 consecutive terms of the conservatives. Sure, we have one of the strongest economies in the world and record low unemployment but their legacy is also that we are the second highest polluters in the world too and the gap between rich and poor has never been wider. The first change will be that we will finally sign the Kyoto Accord and start being responsible to the environment and those others who share this planet. Next, our troops will be pulled out of Iraq and maybe Afghanistan too. I've never been much of a fan of either of the two big parties but this is the lesser of two evils. For over eleven years, we've had to endure ultra-conservatism and ideals of the 1950s where only nuclear families counted in anything. If you're single, a single parent or gay, you are invisible. The Democrats seem to have faded into the background now. They were my biggest hope for a fair society. Maybe they will come back but for now, this country is sighing in relief. Now, it's time to move Bush along for a brighter future all round. Sorry for not heading this up with NJC but I just know Joni would be inspired by the changes going on around the world and the new found consciousness people are developing. Mark in Sydney NP This Place ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:39:53 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Change Coming On NJC - --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > Now, it's time to move Bush along for a brighter future all round. well, Bush'll be moved-along no matter what. But the question is whether he'll be replaced by someone just as conservative. Or, as conservative but (hopefully) slightly more principled/ethical/fair. That would be an improvement. Too many people in the US simply DON'T want change. They like this pirate marketplace life. My Obama sign (which shows that I want change) has been in place on my lawn for weeks now, untouched and unmolested! So that's a good! I fully expected it to meet an early demise. Hope things work out well in Australia, with the recent elections. :) Em - - - - - - - Emzdogz - a little of the social; a little of the solo. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:07:52 -0800 (PST) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: Re: JMLD : Joni Mitchell Lyric Discussion: Judgement of The Moon And Stars. Well, thanks 4 bob and richard for the Joni miscellaneas. Where else we can get them if not from the list? (uuurgh.. i'm not sure about the structure/grammar again, what i am trying to express is : the list is the only place for us to get the miscellanea -- no other place will provide that -- so i am so thankful) Thanks 4 Catherine for the link to the grammar site. I've just "eaten the sites" like a hungry person.... Well, actually i AM hungry. The last time i ate was 29 hours ago. Busy busy busy... Bob mentioned that JOTMAS was the 1st Joni symphony, the 2nd was Down To You, and The 3rd was Paprika Plain. Well, that's right. I've never thought about that before. Yes, series of symphony. La dee da. La dee da... And the fourth? Both Sides Now 2000 eh? Job's Sad Song? Can I say that a symphony? Rian NP. Both Sides Now 2000 PS. God! I am so exhausted this day... I've just come home, and it's 11PM. I go to work at 7AM.... - --------------------------------- Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:15:49 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Change Coming On NJC Mark, Thanks for your post, I appreciate your first-hand take on Australian politics. It's becoming a familiar and refreshing pattern, anyone who sidled up to Bush's wrong-sided policies & politics is getting their rejection slips. Lots of Congressional Republicans who have hitched their wagons to Bush & his policies are announcing their retirement or stating that they will not be running in 2008. Like Em stated, the big question is what we will get - it's a true comfort to realize that whatever it is, it promises to be a far sight better than what we've been burdened with. Sadly, whoever gets elected will have a MAJOR job of beginning to undo all the damage the last 7 years has caused. Bob NP: Drive-By Truckers, "Gravity's Gone" (new one from them coming out in January - can't wait!) - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:41:51 -0500 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: earth magazine, joni mention http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3980 go to question number two _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M ediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:20:48 -0800 (PST) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: Bootlegs... Just an idea Kakki wrote: The 1972 Troubador tape is thanks to old time JMDLer Pat Mead who personally snuck in a reel-to-reel to pull it off! It is my fave "bootleg." ++++++ Well, thanks to Pat Mead, wherever she is (or HE is, Pat is a unisex name, i dont know the gender of this Pat.) Ive got an idea. Just an idea! If you find my idea totally and absolutely dumb, please dont laugh. Hmmm. Since most bootlegs are not copyrighted materials, why dont we have a special section at jmdl.com or jonimitchell.com called BOOTLEGS? Just an idea. Just an idea.... Or maybe we can list the bootlegs. I mean, we make a list and compile all available bootlegs. And if possible, share them. Rian NP. Help Me. PS: Actually I am a little bit upset Joni didnt include this great song on Miles of Aisles or Shadows and Light or Travelogue.... Nononono... Help Me does not fit Travelogue.... - --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:58:37 +0000 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: JMLD : Joni Mitchell Lyric Discussion: Judgement of The Moon And Stars. I've a feeling judgement is the other side of the pond's spelling... I'm not sure what it is in the UK but I've a feeling it's with the 'e' as it's possibly a leftover thing from the French... Not much Joni Jamie Zooby On 28/11/2007, kbhla@fastmail.fm wrote: > Ahhhh, my most very and always favorite Joni album ;-) Can't believe I could > at one time in another century sing those songs. Almost makes me want to give > up the smokes and get rehab to do it again. At the 2000 BSN concert in L.A. > Joni sang JOTMAS just off the freaking chart. The 1972 Troubador tape is > thanks to old time JMDLer Pat Mead who personally snuck in a reel-to-reel to > pull it off! It is my fave "bootleg." > > When I began school to study law the very first lesson they drilled into our > heads was that it was spelled judgment NOT judgement. I figured I'd take > their word for it. (They also told us it was subpena NOT subpoena but my firm > spells it the ancient way, none the less). > > I will always gush about FTR - nothing has ever blown me away as much, > although I do like the reminiscent bits of it on Shine. > > A belated thanks to Laura for that gorgeous unreleased Joni song now covered > by Strings Attached. Geez! That was really wonderful to hear. > > Hope everyone is enjoying all the holiday cheer and chaos! > > Kakki > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Facebook me! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:07:34 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Change Coming On Congratulations, Mark, and all other Australians! I read it in the paper yesterday and sent you thoughts of cheers;:) Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Mark-Leon Thorne Skickat: den 28 november 2007 10:12 Till: JMDL Dmne: Change Coming On There is a positive change in the air in this part of the world. We finally have a new government after a record 4 consecutive terms of the conservatives. Sure, we have one of the strongest economies in the world and record low unemployment but their legacy is also that we are the second highest polluters in the world too and the gap between rich and poor has never been wider. The first change will be that we will finally sign the Kyoto Accord and start being responsible to the environment and those others who share this planet. Next, our troops will be pulled out of Iraq and maybe Afghanistan too. I've never been much of a fan of either of the two big parties but this is the lesser of two evils. For over eleven years, we've had to endure ultra-conservatism and ideals of the 1950s where only nuclear families counted in anything. If you're single, a single parent or gay, you are invisible. The Democrats seem to have faded into the background now. They were my biggest hope for a fair society. Maybe they will come back but for now, this country is sighing in relief. Now, it's time to move Bush along for a brighter future all round. Sorry for not heading this up with NJC but I just know Joni would be inspired by the changes going on around the world and the new found consciousness people are developing. Mark in Sydney NP This Place ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:55:37 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Bootlegs... Just an idea Rian, Most of what is in circulation can be found here: http://tela.sugarmegs.org/_asxtela/ You can stream them anytime. But then again, very few of the songs do. Bob NP: Bob Dylan, "Dear Landlord" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:34:36 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMLD : Joni Mitchell Lyric Discussion: Judgement of The Moon And Stars.now njc - --- Jamie's Box of Paints wrote: > I've a feeling judgement is the other side of the > pond's spelling... > I'm not sure what it is in the UK but I've a feeling > it's with the 'e' > as it's possibly a leftover thing from the French... > > Not much Joni > > Jamie Zooby > I'm not sure if my posts are making it to the jmdl or not. I usually delete my own as soon as I see them, of course and I haven't been posting much lately in any case, but I always love talking about language. English is such a stupid language, or at least, the spelling is. The only written language I've ever seen that is weirder is Gaelic. There are always a whole lot more letters in Gaelic words than are every pronounced. Italian is lovely. Once you know the rules, you can pronounce anything by reading it. We had a speaker at work by the name of Katherine Barber who is a lexicographer with the Canadian Oxford dictionary, and who has written a book or two about the silliness of English spelling and grammar rules - the one I bought is "Six Words You Never Knew Had Something to Do with Pigs: and Other Fascinating Facts about the Language from Canada's Word Lady". She's a complete geek and lots of fun. The book is very entertaining and she also gives a very amusing lecture about the history of the English language in less than an hour. In Canada, we go with the Brit spelling sometimes and the US one other times, as it suits us. I still use the -our endings for colour and so on, but even that is inconsistent. (It's governor, not governour, for example, no matter where in the English-speaking world you may be.) No wonder so many kids have learning disabilities - it's not the kid, it's our silly spelling! Catherine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a X-Mas gift? Everybody needs a Flickr Pro Account. http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:53:34 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Bootlegs... Just an idea Anyone who has broadband and can figure out how to use DC++ software may visit the JMDL lossless music trading hub for Joni music and much more. The address is jmdl.no-ip.info:411 The client for Windows is at: http://dcplusplus.sourceforge.net/ The client for Mac OSX is at: http://shakespeer.bzero.se/ When I am not busy I can offer technical help. However, I am VERY busy right at the moment. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 4:56 PM To: Rian Afriadi Cc: jonipeople Subject: Re: Bootlegs... Just an idea Rian, Most of what is in circulation can be found here: http://tela.sugarmegs.org/_asxtela/ You can stream them anytime. But then again, very few of the songs do. Bob NP: Bob Dylan, "Dear Landlord" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:29:27 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Nice blog post about Woodstock http://theartistsvoice.blogspot.com/2007/11/some-folk-music-that-touched-me.html Bob NP: Joni, "Me & My Uncle" - --------------------------------- Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:06:28 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Details on the Leora Cashe Joni Tribute CD http://vancouverjazz.com/newcd/2007/12/leora-cashe-ross-taggart-trio.html The tracklist: 1. Carey 2. Chelsea Morning 3. Big Yellow Taxi (2007) 4. Michael From Mountains 5. The Circle Game 6. I Don't Know Where I Stand 7. All I Want 8. The Gallery 9. Both Sides Now 10. Woodstock 11. Rainy Night Hoiuse 12. A Case Of You Like I said, not a very imaginative list, but hopefully they'll put some creativity into the arrangements and performances. The cd will be available on cdbaby but it ain't there yet. I do think it's interesting that BYT is listed with the Shine reference - wonder what that means? Bob NP: Miles Davis, "Straight, No Chaser" - --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:23:55 -0800 (PST) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: A Day In The Garden (?) Well, Bob and Ken talked about Joni's live performance... Well, i once saw one of her concert, on youtube of course! (there's no way i can go to USA or Canada) I guess the show was called A Day In The Garden. When Joni sang "Just Like This Train", i saw a huge banner that said "JMDL Loves Joni". Well, the video was blurry and poor quality. So i keep on wondering who was there... Surely some of us was there... Rian NP. WTRF. PS. Don't forget, next month is DJRD's 30th anniversary. - --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:36:38 -0500 From: Suzanne MarcAurele Subject: Shine I had a dream in 1983...Mitchell was sitting at a mirror preparing for a concert and then all these scribbles of color...the workings of a mad artist...scribbled all across the scene...dream resolved Last Word Suzie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:08:47 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Nice blog post about Woodstock On Nov 28, 2007, at 6:29 PM, Bob Muller wrote: > > > Bob > > NP: Joni, "Me & My Uncle" I think I have that recording somewhere...wasn't it on a DVD giveaway from Jonifest? Anyway, I have heard the Grateful Dead do this song numerous times...it was one of their many standbys. When I heard John Denver sing it, I noticed in his version he sang on the last line, "I left him lying there by the side of the road." When the Dead sang it, they always sang "I left his dead ass there by the side of the road." I probably already know the answer to this question, but what version does Joni sing? Victor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:50:43 -0500 From: Susan Moss Subject: River (Joni... beautifully covered by Cary Cooper) Hello, All (but especially Bob Muller...? :-) Okay, I was halfway through typig this e-mail, giving a (what I thought to be advance) heads-up on a new Joni interpretation... when I decided to check the Joni database - curses, foiled again (the Covers King?is just too fast/comprehensive!). For the rest of you, here's the scoop - Cary Cooper (a wonderful singer-songwriter based in Texas) does a lovely rendition of River, which can be listened to on the website... http://www.erikbalkey.com/husonharding.html The holiday CD offers 16 tracks, with a few traditionals and mostly originals... and can be ordered via details below (tell Erik I sent you...? :-) News: Sixteen holiday songs from Hudson Harding artists Hudson Harding Sampler, Happy Holidays, Volume 2 NOW AVAILABLE... email hudsonhardingmusic@yahoo.com for ordering information P.S.? D*mmit, Bob - when do you sleep?!? Susan www.labyrinthcafe.com www.browardfolkclub.com www.southfloridafolkfest.com www.gotfolk.com "god bless the sound of music god bless the golden rule..." ~ Danny Schmidt ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:26:35 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Details on the Leora Cashe Joni Tribute CD now njc Leora, in my experience, is not a very common name. I only know of two people (besides Ms. Cashe) named Leora. One was my mother. The other is my niece (named for her grandmother, of course). Some of my cousins had imaginative mis-pronouncings of my mother's name when they were kids. Aunt Lolo, Aunt E-Lora - you just didn't run across that name. Has anyone else on the list known anybody named Leora in their lifetime? Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:12:57 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Details on the Leora Cashe Joni Tribute CD now njc - --- Mark Scott wrote: > Has anyone else on the list known anybody named > Leora in their > lifetime? > There's one where I work. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:20:15 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: NJC R.I.P. George Harrison 1943-2001 Best wishes to George's family and friends.... Hare Krishna, -Monika - --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:36:05 -0600 From: sweetbirdur Subject: What do ya'll think of this?, njc Hi Jonilistas, My dad, a retired AF Lt. Colonel, recently send this to me (below). I would like to hear your opinion about this essay. Love and appreciation, Laura If you would like to see who this writer is, go to this Air Force web site and look him up: http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5000 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA : A different spin on Iraq war. This WAR is for REAL! Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII) The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means. First, let's examine a few basics 1. When did the threat to us start Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us: * Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979; * Beirut , Lebanon Embassy 1983; * Beirut , Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983; * Lockerbie , Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988; * First New York World Trade Center attack 1993; * Dhahran , Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996; * Nairobi , Kenya US Embassy 1998; * Dares Salaam , Tanzania US Embassy 1998; * A! den, Yemen USS Cole 2000; * New York World Trade Center 2001;* Pentagon 2001. (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide). 2. Why were we attacked? Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessor, President Ford. 3. Who were the attackers? In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims 4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%. 5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian (?)), that made no difference. You either went along with the ad ministration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (seehttp://www.Nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm) Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others. Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US , but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, British, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements - -- killing all of us 'infidels.' I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die? 6. So who are we at war with? There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting. So with that background, now to the two major questions: 1 Can we lose this war? 2 What does losing really mean? If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions: We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean? It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get. What losing really means is We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was, clearly, for terrorists to attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them. We would, of course, have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see; we are impotent and cannot help them. They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished. The next will probably be France Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast! Without our support Great Britain will go too. Recently I read that there are more mosques in England than churches. If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslim terrorists, how could anyone else? The radical Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost. Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win. So, how can we lose the war? Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by 'imploding.' That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win! Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation. President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently. And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then. Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him? No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head. Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I think some actually do, I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause. Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. ! And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq . And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held. Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the 'humiliating' of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but 'humiliating' them. Can they be for real? The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can. To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years. These people are a serious and dangerous liability to the war effort. We must take note of who they are and get them out of office. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States , but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't! If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated. And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world. This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self- inflicted fall of the Roman Empire If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read. If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar? Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power. Muslims have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over whom will be the few who control the masses What is happening in Iraq is a good example. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the 'peaceful Muslims'? I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now, after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it. I reiterate. A national election is months away. After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world. Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #478 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------