From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #433 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, October 28 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 433 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: njc, A Nation Rocked to Sleep ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: wow, some really low notes! ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: Smoke On The Water [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: wow, some really low notes! ["Marian Russell" ] Re: Smoking in LA (njc other than Joni) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: From Bo...a few thoughts [Monika Bogdanowicz ] The Joni lyrics.....thanks! [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Scans of Complete Geffen Recordings [Sam ] Re: The Joni lyrics.....thanks! [Victor Johnson ] Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc [Bob Muller ] Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc [Victor Johnson ] Re: feminist lyrics [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc [Bob Muller ] Re: HISSING of S L demos!!!!! ["Dan Olson" ] Re: Fiddle and the Drum DVD--quota has been reached ["Cassy" ] David Leavitt ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: David Leavitt ["Marian Russell" ] Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc [Bob Muller ] Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc ["Randy Remote" ] RE: Fiddle and Drum - new link [Cindy Vickery ] Re: wow, some really low notes! [Jeannie ] RE: David Leavitt ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: wow, some really low notes! NJC [Jeannie ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 00:46:41 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: njc, A Nation Rocked to Sleep Thanks for this moving tribute Patti. It did look a lot like SB until they showed the carnival rides- it must be Santa Monica. Kate, recovering from flu so no peace marching for me tomorrow. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 04:09:51 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: wow, some really low notes! Marian pointed out: >> If I Had A Heart - D below middle C Bad Dreams - D below middle C Night of the Iguana - E below middle C Strong and Wrong - E below middle C Shine - E below middle C If - C below middle C (hold on) << I noticed this too and absolutely adore it! Was the first time she did this on Turbulent Indigo or was it The Hissing Of Summer Lawns??? Marian continues: >> My favorite song is Strong and Wrong. I know the lyrics are possibly not her most innovative, but it's the first time I've ever noticed Joni saying anything remotely feminist, and I do think that if women were more involved in running everything, there would be more focus on constructive things like education, health, food for everyone, peace, prosperity. But getting back to why I like the song, I find the chord changes, melody, voice, the heart with which she sings this song, so beautiful. << You are SO RIGHT Marian!!!!!!! And on so many levels. S&W is definitely up there with my fav SHINE songs but I must disagree that the lyrics are not up there with her most innovative stuff. "A mass murder mystery, history, his story" is SO stunningly true and strangely beautiful. Oh my, I still sincerely believe that SHINE is the most profound, wonderful album Joni has ever released. I've listened to it every day since it was released and I love it more every time! This might be the first record I've ever heard that I love every song equally. Especially the voice. ET ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 18:16:31 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Smoke On The Water Most indigenous peoples use smoking as a ritual including Australian aborigines. Maybe that's something Joni likes about indigenous Americans. There was a wake for a young aboriginal boy who was murdered the other day and they had to perform a traditional smoking ritual for him. The authorities wouldn't dare fine them for smoking. Awful case actually. The 6 year old boy was found murdered inside a suitcase in a lake. The mother has been charged with the murder. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:45:06 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: wow, some really low notes! "Eric Taylor" wrote: >> >> If - C below middle C (hold on) << > > > I noticed this too and absolutely adore it! > Was the first time she did this on Turbulent Indigo or was it The Hissing > Of Summer Lawns??? > In Impossible Dreamer (DED,) she sings a C# below middle C. Not sure about TI. I don't think she sang anything near that low on HOSL. > Oh my, I still sincerely believe that SHINE is the most profound, > wonderful album Joni has ever released. > I've listened to it every day since it was released and I love it more > every time! > This might be the first record I've ever heard that I love every song > equally. > Especially the voice. I love your enthusiasm for Shine, Eric! I like almost everything - even Hana is sounding a little better with every listen (I only got my copy last week on Monday, so I'm kind of behind everyone else here). All the best, Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 05:26:21 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Smoking in LA (njc other than Joni) Kakki wrote: >> I really don't know why they just can't let smokers have their own bars and restaurants. Wouldn't that make sense? Freedom of choice and all. << How very true! Here in Pittsburgh, PA "THEY" tried to pass the no-smoking law sweeping our precious planet. I was proud that my hometown rejected it on the grounds that we have long had smoking and non-smoking bars and restaurants. In my second home, upstate NY, "THEY" passed the obnoxious smoking ban several years ago but now allow businesses who can prove a 40% drop in business to allow smoking in their establishments. Oh the insanity of humanity! This reminds me of a recent 5/4 US Supreme Court ruling to outlaw medicinal marijuana. The out-of-touch justices argued that there has never been a case when inhaling smoke has been used before to treat illness. These are the same A-holes who put W in power fully knowing that Al won the election. There is something seriously wrong with U.S. and I increasingly understand why so many people believe that we are the Great Satan. Sorry for being so blunt with my opinions but Joni continues to be my most influential teacher. And I feel SO blessed!!! ET ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 05:18:55 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc On Oct 26, 2007, at 11:45 PM, ajfashion@att.net wrote: > I've never liked the Eagles, not even when they were all anyone > played in my dorm. Then my distaste grew, when I learned some > things about Don Henley as a person. I must admit I admire very > much one line of theirs: "saw a Deadhead sticker on a Cadillac." I don't really go out of my way to listen to the Eagles but I have to say at jam sessions their songs are great for harmonizing. I remember being out in the woods recently, at a music festival, jamming with some awesome musicians singing "Peaceful Easy Feeling" and "Seven Bridges Road" and the harmony was so tight it was awesome, especially since it was like 5 or 6 in the morning. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:01:44 +1000 From: "Michael" Subject: 911 NJC Hi Everyone. I am curious as to your opinions on 911. How many agree with the official story? How many don't? Cheers Michael No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.10/1091 - Release Date: 24/10/2007 2:31 PM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 03:45:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: From Bo...a few thoughts Hey Bo, thanks for the read. I always enjoy what you have to say. I do agree with you that it is sort of funny on what critics choose to discuss in Joni's most recent work. I would understand a passing statement made about this or that (if talking about a detail) but I'd really much rather hear an analysis of Joni's music (and a general opinion on the words) rather than a critic's problem about Joni's problem with cellphones. I think some critics just need to find something to pick at. If it wasn't cellphones or whatever, it'd be something else. I realize it is a critic's job to critique but so many reviews are so poorly written focusing on one bit rather than the whole pie. I suppose all we can do is move on and continue listening to Joni's music, getting whatever it is we get from it. Some of these reviews do perplex me but I won't lie. I would never just stop reading them.....unless 100% of them turned into garbage. As for judging people, this is something that is so easy to do. It is easier to judge someone, dismiss them, than to understand and sympathize. The difficulty lies in trying to imagine being in someone else's shoes or seeing things from someone else's eyes. I think this is one of today's biggest problems. If we could all just step aside, think, and understand, we'd be living in a happier and more peaceful world. It sounds so simple but it is the hardest thing in the world. I try not to judge anyone myself but I can't admit to being a saint. I suppose I'm often and have often been confused about the actions of my immediate family (mainly my parents). It is difficult to understand something that would seemingly or that does cause pain to someone else. I won't go into detail on that but generally speaking, it makes sense. As for Joni, I really hope (if she reads the reviews) doesn't take any of them to heart--positive or negative both. Negative reviews are obvious in why I would say that. I also hope she reads the positive reviews in passing because a review is just one person's opinion though one person can influence you greatly. However, I highly doubt that Joni would be influenced by any critic any way... Enough rambling..... -Monika "We all come and go unknown..." Peep Richman wrote: Hi , Just finished reading the last JMDL and I have a few thoughts to share.....for what they're worth. First though, is it the November Vanity Fair???? After reading the review from the Blender Magazine I was angry, disappointed and frustrated. What does "A seam of zany gallows humor" mean?? And why would a reviewer care or bother to mention that Joni has a "bugaboo" about cell phones??? AND..."If Joni is decades past her prime as a songwriter....." who does the reviewer think he/she is, making that really dumb comment? It's really easy to 'review' or offer comments on another human being, isn't it? Especially when the universal "you" can't possibly know how another person feels or thinks UNLESS the almighty comment-maker has spent a decade or so in another person's skin. I want to think that Joni reads (if she does) all of the reviews of "Shine" and comments made about her and either appreciates some remark that's made or has a good laugh or pushes an internal button 'erase' from her incredible mind. I can't imagine offering a critical word about someone like Joni....gee, when was the last time I ever thought of even putting together the words in one of her lines of lyrics? Wait...I'm not talking about our threads or discussions on the Digest....this is an appropriate arena and I believe we are all caring and coming from a clear, well thought-out place in our minds when we discuss things. As far as the irony that Joni writes about the planet and has made the decision to smoke....this is Joni's decision. I have a very strong feeling that Joni respects second-hand smoke etc. I'm fairly sure that Joni feels and does things that maybe anyone may have an objection to...an opinion about...the point is that Joni is and has always been a woman who is an individualist and I don't think she has ever really given a crap about what anyone thinks about her thoughts or decisions. Joni is a genius and with having an intellectual capacity that far outweighs the 'average' person, she's bound to have some differences about her that the 'average' person just doesn't quite gets. I guess...nope, I know I can rant on and on about this but I obviously feel very strongly about judging another person....please don't take this to extremes...we all judge someones actions one time or another. Switching gears....Dave, I'm so very glad you and your family are safe and had the chance to stuff your possessions in two cars. Is there anything you need? Do you personally know of things others might need? Again, switching gears....I'm really thrilled for Carly and JT being grandparents!!! What a fabulous name that precious soul has been given. Sally is so lovely and Mr. Bragonier is one handsome gent...so, I'm sure Bodhi will surely please the eye as well as eventually share many talents. Be safe...be healthy...be happy. Love from Bo Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 03:47:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: The Joni lyrics.....thanks! I just wanted to say thanks to all those who gave me some very relevant Joni lyrics to use when I asked. I actually used all of them in my farewell message (though I'm sure we'll still chat on the phone, online, and hell you never know...maybe in the summer I'll visit my friend if I can afford it..). -Monika "We all come and go unknown..." Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:59:44 +1000 From: Sam Subject: Scans of Complete Geffen Recordings Hi, Probably already been talked to death and we've all senn them before as vinyl I guess but I've scanned and uploaded complete scans of the box and contents here: http://www.minilps.net/japan-box-official/mitchell-joni-uicy-90671-74-the-complete-geffen-recordings-box.html?jmdl (scroll down and there are links to the individual albums) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:10:57 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: The Joni lyrics.....thanks! On Oct 27, 2007, at 6:47 AM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > hell you never know...maybe in the summer I'll visit my friend if > I can afford it..). That would be cool...maybe we could jam, play some Joni and Neil! Victor, in the heart of Atlanta ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 06:48:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc I always loved their "On The Border" album, great from start to finish. And probably my favorite Eagles song is "Journey Of The Sorceror" on "One Of These Nights". But they were everywhere in the 70's, you couldn't avoid them. I saw them live in Greensboro, NC on their "Hotel California" tour. One of the most boring concerts I've ever been to as their goal was to re-create note-for-note all of the selections. Joe Walsh made it interesting though, and they did loosen up quite a bit on the encore "James Dean", but I wouldn't cross the street to see them now. Bob NP: Beth Orton, "This One's Gonna Bruise" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:50:56 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: feminist lyrics Hi Marian, just to pick up your point about feminist lyrics - I don't think Strong is Wrong is a first at all. Remember Not To Blame? That song's been spoiled for me ever since I discovered Joni might have been having a vicious dig at Jackson Brown, but I still think it's a spot-on diagnostic of the kind of male attitudes that can lead to wife-battering. Then there's No Apologies - ok, the start of the second verse is weak IMO (X says Y says Z thinks etc. - was she again taking a swipe at somebody in particular?) but the rest of the song all comes together beautifully in the 3rd verse, as a powerful attack on masculine values. She goes from the military rape story (v.1) to personal experience of men (v.2) and then to the fundamental question of 'What makes a man a man' in our times (v.3), and the chorus gives us images of male dog-eat-dog aggressiveness (which may of course be displayed by female lawyers and loansharks too). So a song that at first seems cranky and scatter-gun, is actually (IMHO) a powerful and well-crafted indictment of machismo. What amazes me, though, is that Joni can come out with this stuff (and the classic cliche of 'His-story' on Shine) and yet NOT think herself a feminist, as if being a feminist makes you a man-hater. It's one of those infuriating contradictions about her! Best to all, M _________________________________________________________________ 100s of Music vouchers to be won with MSN Music https://www.musicmashup.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:08:44 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc On Oct 27, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Bob Muller wrote: > they did loosen up quite a bit on the encore "James Dean", but I > wouldn't cross the street to see them now. What if they were playing next door, or one house down, on the same block? Victor :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:13:39 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: HISSING of S L demos!!!!! Guys, dont know if youre all aware of this already, but HofSL demos can be downloaded (for free) at http://www.bigozine2.com/archive/ARrarities07/ARjmseeding.html They consist of: Harry's House (guitar), Edith, In France... (just guitar, and some different harmonies), Sweet Bird, Shades of Scarlet (piano chords not as fully worked out as on album), Shadows & L (close to final, but lighter harmonies), Dreamland, Boho Dance, and the early Hunter (dropped from Blue). Dreamland is a revelation, with a wonderful 2-chord guitar riff throughout that just lifts the song. Wish she'd kept it in, and just added Chaka. Can see why Hunter (Good Samaritan) was dropped. Nice enough lyric, but very pretend-folky in its feel, and a guitar line she used instead on This Flight Tonight. Thanks so much to hejiraboy on the joni website discussion threads for discovering this. Now can anybody find guitar/piano demos for Dog Eat Dog? I'd pay anything for those! Enjoy the listen, folks. M _________________________________________________________________ Celeb spotting  Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes https://www.celebmashup.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 07:23:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: feminist lyrics I don't see her resistance to calling herself a feminist so much a contradiction as I see it as a statement to keep herself label free. It seems, Joni has never wanted to be labeled as anything. She even said herself (musically speaking here) she wanted to be the folk-jazz-rock-whatever-whatever, etc., etc type of musician. I think this sort of thinking probably crosses the boundaries from her music background to her personal background. Plus, the word "feminist" has so many negative connotations still! Who wants to be associated with something like that? In addition, if she declared herself a feminist think about how many males she would turn away from her music because of that statement. It seems, there are still those who think Joni makes "girl music." A good example was that post about "songs that make men cry." That man wrote he had always been under the assumption that Joni wrote hippy, sappy music for girls (or something to that extent). Now of course this isn't true but if she called herself a feminist, she'd probably push others further away. Now I do know Joni has male fans (EX: look at the jmdl!) so obviously she doesn't make music just for women. I was just trying to make a point! -Monika "We all come and go unknown..." Michel BYRNE wrote: Hi Marian, just to pick up your point about feminist lyrics - I don't think Strong is Wrong is a first at all. Remember Not To Blame? That song's been spoiled for me ever since I discovered Joni might have been having a vicious dig at Jackson Brown, but I still think it's a spot-on diagnostic of the kind of male attitudes that can lead to wife-battering. Then there's No Apologies - ok, the start of the second verse is weak IMO (X says Y says Z thinks etc. - was she again taking a swipe at somebody in particular?) but the rest of the song all comes together beautifully in the 3rd verse, as a powerful attack on masculine values. She goes from the military rape story (v.1) to personal experience of men (v.2) and then to the fundamental question of 'What makes a man a man' in our times (v.3), and the chorus gives us images of male dog-eat-dog aggressiveness (which may of course be displayed by female lawyers and loansharks too). So a song that at first seems cranky and scatter-gun, is actually (IMHO) a powerful and well-crafted indictment of machismo. What amazes me, though, is that Joni can come out with this stuff (and the classic cliche of 'His-story' on Shine) and yet NOT think herself a feminist, as if being a feminist makes you a man-hater. It's one of those infuriating contradictions about her! Best to all, M _________________________________________________________________ 100s of Music vouchers to be won with MSN Music https://www.musicmashup.co.uk Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 07:57:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc Not on the same block, Not one house down. Not with an acrobat, Not with a clown I do not like them, Victor-I-Am, I will not pay for The Eagles' scam! Bob NP: Bruce Springsteen, "Loose Change" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:37:14 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Fiddle and the Drum DVD--quota has been reached I now have 11 folks who are receiving DVDs from me. I'm not asking for B&P, so maybe if some of those folks want to reoffer here at a later date that would be nice. Now I better get to burnin' ! Richard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:37:47 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Robert and Allison (njc) Just picked up the new Robert Plant/Allison Krauss project "Raising Sand". Just had one listen so far but I really like it. Nice production and some good song selection. Even a Tom Waits cover "Trampled Rose"! Victor NP: Miles Davis "My Funny Valentine" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:01:40 -0500 From: "Dan Olson" Subject: Re: HISSING of S L demos!!!!! These recordings are incredibly fascinating; I was not aware of them already; THANK YOU. They are unlike typical demos; they offer a glimpse at the way Joni developed the songs, by including elaborate vocal arrangements over (typically) a single (12 string?) guitar. Or is it 2 six-string guitars on top of each other? One can imagine Joni recording her guitar and voice, and then freely trying out different ideas for vocal harmonies, before involving any other musicians. It brings into sharp focus how distinctive Joni's harmonizing has always been. It is the one thing about her sound that has remained essentially unchanged for 40 years. On 10/27/07, Michel BYRNE wrote: > > Guys, dont know if youre all aware of this already, but HofSL demos can be > downloaded (for free) at > http://www.bigozine2.com/archive/ARrarities07/ARjmseeding.html > > They consist of: Harry's House (guitar), Edith, In France... (just guitar, > and > some different harmonies), Sweet Bird, Shades of Scarlet (piano chords not > as > fully worked out as on album), Shadows & L (close to final, but lighter > harmonies), Dreamland, Boho Dance, and the early Hunter (dropped from > Blue). > Dreamland is a revelation, with a wonderful 2-chord guitar riff throughout > that just lifts the song. Wish she'd kept it in, and just added Chaka. > Can see why Hunter (Good Samaritan) was dropped. Nice enough lyric, but > very > pretend-folky in its feel, and a guitar line she used instead on This > Flight > Tonight. > Thanks so much to hejiraboy on the joni website discussion threads for > discovering this. Now can anybody find guitar/piano demos for Dog Eat Dog? > I'd > pay anything for those! > Enjoy the listen, folks. > M > > _________________________________________________________________ > Celeb spotting Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes > https://www.celebmashup.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:09:33 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Fiddle and the Drum DVD--quota has been reached From: "Richard Flynn" <<< I now have 11 folks who are receiving DVDs from me. I'm not asking for B&P, so maybe if some of those folks want to reoffer here at a later date that would be nice. >>> OK so now I feel like chopped liver since only three people wrote with requests for the DVD when I offered it. I thought perhaps it was because of the wonders of technology and that people are now just making their own from downloads. I still have two copies available to the first who request them. Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:58:27 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: feminist lyrics "Monika Bogdanowicz" wrote: > I don't see her resistance to calling herself a feminist so > much a contradiction as I see it as a statement to keep > herself label free. I think labels are very limiting. It is natural to try to simplify what we see and experience with labels. It's just that labels fix something/someone at a point in time, but everything and everyone is changing. Are you the same person that you were even two years ago? (not you personally Monika or Michel, just anyone) If someone who doesn't know you sees you at one of your not so finest moments they will categorize you in a negative way and it will be hard for them to see you in the future without that filter of that one negative experience of you. Even if they do know you, this can happen. > Plus, the word "feminist" has so many negative connotations > still! Who wants to be associated with something like that? I hope no one thought that I was labelling Joni a feminist by my remarks (and not that being a feminist is a bad thing). I only meant to observe that she used a very feminist term (his-story) in her song. I think this is interesting. I would conclude from this that she has been reading some of the literature, or at least talking to someone who has. She has opened her mind to some of the concepts. Apart from this, I think, whether Joni would wish to be labelled as a feminist or not, she has made her way in the world without relying on male financial support, seems to have disdain for women who choose otherwise (The Last Time I Saw Richard, The Arrangement, Harry's House), and has suffered for acting as freely and independently as any man might do (the Rolling Stone article cataloguing her relationships - persons who label themselves feminists would think this article is totally wrong on the basis of why is it okay for men to act this way, but women not? - i.e., why are women called "whores" and men are just "sowing their wild seeds"?). > Plus, the word "feminist" has so many negative connotations still! > Who wants to be associated with something like that? I'm not sure this is true, that it has so many negative connotations. > A good example was that post about "songs that make men cry." > That man wrote he had always been under the assumption that > Joni wrote hippy, sappy music for girls (or something to that extent). The only Joni song that makes me cry is Cherokee Louise. I find most of her music very intelligent and very intellectual . Sarah MacLaughlin makes me cry, Patty Griffn makes me cry. Bruce Hornsby makes me cry. Joni doesn't make me cry. Michel BYRNE wrote: > Hi Marian, just to pick up your point about feminist lyrics - I don't > think > Strong is Wrong is a first at all. Remember Not To Blame? ... I ... think > it's a spot-on diagnostic of the kind of male attitudes that can lead to > wife-battering.... Then there's No Apologies .... a powerful attack on > masculine values ... the fundamental question of 'What makes a man a > man' in our times ... a powerful and well-crafted > indictment of machismo. I think you are right, it's just that none of the words are overtly feminist. I wouldn't conclude that she had been reading feminist literature from that fact that she wrote these two songs, only that she is a caring person who is writing about injustices that came to her attention. > What amazes me, though, is that Joni can come out with this stuff (and the > classic cliche of 'His-story' on Shine) and yet NOT think herself a > feminist, > as if being a feminist makes you a man-hater. It's precisely because of "His-story" in Strong And Wrong that I'm wondering if maybe she doesn't think that way (i.e., that "being a feminist makes you a man-hater") anymore. Thanks to both of you for responding to something that I wrote. All the best, Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:39:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: David Leavitt Today we had the huge Times Festival of Reading on our campus. I hosted and introduced author David Leavitt, a gay author who has written many bestsellers including The Lost Language of Cranes and While England Sleeps. His new book, Indian Clerk, is a great read. He is now the Director of the creative writing program at UF. As we chatted he told me he just returned from Toronto's Harborfest and somehow (!) I brought up my days of seeing Joni there. Turns out he is a HUGE Joni fan so we talked of nothing else. After I introduced to a big crowd at his presentation he remarked I was the first person he ever met was a bigger Joni Mitchell fan and knew more about her than he did. The crowd loved it! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:11:36 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: David Leavitt What a cool story, Jerry! I like the titles of his books - especially The Lost Language of Cranes. I will order it. Thanks for sharing! Marian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "jon i" Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:39 PM Subject: David Leavitt > Today we had the huge Times Festival of Reading on our campus. I hosted > and introduced author David Leavitt, a gay author who has written many > bestsellers including The Lost Language of Cranes and While England > Sleeps. His new book, Indian Clerk, is a great read. He is now the > Director of the creative writing program at UF. As we chatted he told me > he just returned from Toronto's Harborfest and somehow (!) I brought up my > days of seeing Joni there. Turns out he is a HUGE Joni fan so we talked of > nothing else. After I introduced to a big crowd at his presentation he > remarked I was the first person he ever met was a bigger Joni Mitchell fan > and knew more about her than he did. The crowd loved it! > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:57:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc Not backstage, Or with groupies three, I will not see them, Randy-I-am, let me be! Bob NP: Leslie Ritter, "Woodstock" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:47:03 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Ballet DVDs taken All of my copies are now claimed. Watch for it being re-offered to the list from those who got them Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:22:27 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc What if it was backstage, or ALL ACCESS!!? Would you see them then, Would you say yes? > Not backstage, > Or with groupies three, > I will not see them, > Randy-I-am, let me be! > > Bob > the same block?> > > Not on the same block, > Not one house down. > Not with an acrobat, > Not with a clown > I do not like them, Victor-I-Am, > I will not pay for The Eagles' scam! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:11:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc - --- Bob Muller wrote: > down, on > the same block?> > > Not on the same block, > Not one house down. > Not with an acrobat, > Not with a clown > I do not like them, Victor-I-Am, > I will not pay for The Eagles' scam! > > Bob > What if they were playing for free? ;-) Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:42:01 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Eagles' "Long Road Out Of Eden", njc I would not watch them play for free I would not watch them with a bee I would not watch them in a box I would not watch them play on FOX I do not like them Catherine-I-Am I do not like green eagles and ham. Victor NP: Rox and Sox On Oct 27, 2007, at 8:11 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Bob Muller wrote: > >> > down, on >> the same block?> >> >> Not on the same block, >> Not one house down. >> Not with an acrobat, >> Not with a clown >> I do not like them, Victor-I-Am, >> I will not pay for The Eagles' scam! >> >> Bob >> > > > What if they were playing for free? > > ;-) > > > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:17:34 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #340 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:32:57 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #340 Finally got Shine about a week ago. Listened to it without knowing the lyrics, after reading the lyrics, in the car, on the couch and my best listening experience -- on a run. The package is superb ... top notch. Very elegant. The presentation is one of Joni's best visuals. Joni's voice is indeed the best it's been in a while. It's terrific to hear her at the piano again. Overall I think the album's good ... but I'm not sure it's going to make my top seven. Not yet. Don't have any favorite songs from it yet -- though there are some that did grab me. The one thing that does bother me ... why BYT? Of all the songs from Joni's catalog she had to pick this? Yeah, yeah I get the theme -- but she could have covered something ... anything from DED and had the same affect. Shoot she even said -- "don't say I didn't warn you" in another song. We get it already. Her lyrics show that things have been a festering with her. I'm glad that she speaks her mind -- but she can be smug. I'll still give her a pass. Her next release is going to be all about joy. Count on it. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:37:31 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Dice K! (njc) Even Dice K gets a hit! 6-0 Red Sox!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:00:48 -0500 From: Cindy Vickery Subject: RE: Fiddle and Drum - new link Coleen!! Thank you for sharing this. Beautiful! cindy > To: joni@smoe.org > From: scrifton@cogeco.ca > Subject: Fiddle and Drum - new link > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:12:16 -0400 > > Hi all, > , > Unfortunately, the limewire files were corrupted. Here's a link to > yousendit: > > http://www.yousendit.com/download/www/K2NhcmxRaFJOMURIRGc9PQ > > > > Coleen _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:08:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Re: wow, some really low notes! It's very slow here today! Where is everybody? :} And, I also noticed that Marian's post from earlier today (Saturday) came clocked in as if it were Sunday!?! Jeannie NP: ~River~~Corianne Bailey Rae~~Herbie Hancock~~River~~~ Marian Russell wrote: "Eric Taylor" wrote: >> >> If - C below middle C (hold on) << > > > I noticed this too and absolutely adore it! > Was the first time she did this on Turbulent Indigo or was it The Hissing > Of Summer Lawns??? > In Impossible Dreamer (DED,) she sings a C# below middle C. Not sure about TI. I don't think she sang anything near that low on HOSL. > Oh my, I still sincerely believe that SHINE is the most profound, > wonderful album Joni has ever released. > I've listened to it every day since it was released and I love it more > every time! > This might be the first record I've ever heard that I love every song > equally. > Especially the voice. I love your enthusiasm for Shine, Eric! I like almost everything - even Hana is sounding a little better with every listen (I only got my copy last week on Monday, so I'm kind of behind everyone else here). All the best, Marian nj Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:09:43 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: David Leavitt Wow, Jerry. I really admire Leavitt's writing. Great to know he also has good taste in music. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Notaro Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 4:40 PM To: jon i Subject: David Leavitt Today we had the huge Times Festival of Reading on our campus. I hosted and introduced author David Leavitt, a gay author who has written many bestsellers including The Lost Language of Cranes and While England Sleeps. His new book, Indian Clerk, is a great read. He is now the Director of the creative writing program at UF. As we chatted he told me he just returned from Toronto's Harborfest and somehow (!) I brought up my days of seeing Joni there. Turns out he is a HUGE Joni fan so we talked of nothing else. After I introduced to a big crowd at his presentation he remarked I was the first person he ever met was a bigger Joni Mitchell fan and knew more about her than he did. The crowd loved it! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:04:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Re: wow, some really low notes! NJC My e-mail box wasn't getting any messages until just a little while ago. I'm just wondering if the JMDL was down or if it was only my computer acting up. Thanks! Jeannie Jeannie wrote: It's very slow here today! Where is everybody? :} And, I also noticed that Marian's post from earlier today (Saturday) came clocked in as if it were Sunday!?! Jeannie NP: ~River~~Corianne Bailey Rae~~Herbie Hancock~~River~~~ Marian Russell wrote: "Eric Taylor" wrote: >> >> If - C below middle C (hold on) << > > > I noticed this too and absolutely adore it! > Was the first time she did this on Turbulent Indigo or was it The Hissing > Of Summer Lawns??? > In Impossible Dreamer (DED,) she sings a C# below middle C. Not sure about TI. I don't think she sang anything near that low on HOSL. > Oh my, I still sincerely believe that SHINE is the most profound, > wonderful album Joni has ever released. > I've listened to it every day since it was released and I love it more > every time! > This might be the first record I've ever heard that I love every song > equally. > Especially the voice. I love your enthusiasm for Shine, Eric! I like almost everything - even Hana is sounding a little better with every listen (I only got my copy last week on Monday, so I'm kind of behind everyone else here). All the best, Marian nj Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com nj Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:29:01 -0700 (PDT) From: rian afriadi Subject: The Spice Girls -- NJC Catherine wrote: >>>Weren't they a "created" band, not unlike, say, NSync or the Spice Girls, chosen for their pretty faces as much as for their musical talents? Hahaha. Gotta make a confession: I love Spice Girls.. They thought me English. I remember 10 years ago, before my 11th birthday, and i couldnt speak English at that time, i sang one of their song called Naked. Of course i didnt know what naked was. Thank God my mom couldnt speak English. But i saw my aunt lifted her eyebrow.... Uh oh.... NP. Spice Girls  Who Do You Think You Are (in remembrance of the good old times) LOL Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #433 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------