From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #430 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, October 25 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 430 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Blender Magazine - Shine Review ["Eric Taylor" ] Empty, Try Another (Upon The Funeral Pyre) ["William Elliott" ] Re: Smoke On The Water now vljc [Catherine McKay ] Re: incredibly dumb question njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Smoke On The Water now vljc [Victor Johnson ] Re: Smoke On The Water now vljc [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: incredibly dumb question njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: incredibly dumb question njc [Em ] RE: Neil Young Bonus Track NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: shine on the catholic church... ["Happy The Man" ] Subject: Re: Blender Magazine - Shine Review - The voice [Bryan ] Re: Smoke On The Water now njc [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: SJC. Zenith to nadir and back NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: SJC. Zenith to nadir and back ["Marian Russell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:22:01 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Blender Magazine - Shine Review >> Cranky Canadian genius dislikes mobile phones; loves tar and nicotine. Reviewed by Stephen Holden << HOW INCREDIBLY STUPID! This "review" is a perfect example of people who judge music by the lyrics, driven by pop culture. Little Stephen Holden his prick continues: "She has a bugaboo about cell phones." What the F do these two little lyrics have to do with the stunning MUSIC??? I feel sorry for people who can't get beyond the words to appreciate the real driving force of Joni. Holden his balls continues: "The cruelest joke is that Mitchell's smoggy voice is as polluted (from smoking) as the dying planet her songs describe. For this, she has no one to blame but herself." HOW EVEN STUPIDER??? As a fellow smoker I just need to say that all of you increasingly obnoxious non-smokers are behaving more and more like nazis every day. Hey you should THANK US for providing the most money of anyone for health care in America with all the god damn taxes. IMO what really causes cancer is manmade pollutants from our cars, factories and YES cell phones. But WHAT does any of this have to do with the music? Personally I've long concluded that most people are simply stupid. Sorry if age has made people like me cranky and cynical. But you young zombies REALLY disappoint me with your care-free obliviousness. Comparing cigarette smokers to greed-heads killing our lovely planet is beyond stupid. I really feel sorry and even sometimes pray for stupid people like you. ET NP: Planet In Peril, Part 2, CNN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:30:55 -0700 From: "William Elliott" Subject: Empty, Try Another (Upon The Funeral Pyre) But smoking and pollution/destruction of the Earth are two completely different matters. Smoking starts off as a personal choice (not so much a choice after a matter of time when addiction comes into play) harming mainly yourself (and someone who may be sitting next to you). A cigarette doesn't pollute the Earth comparatively and just because you smoke or take part in some other vice (pick your poison) doesn't mean you shouldn't have the right to say what you think. I could understand if Joni wrote an anti-smoking album and the reviewer had a problem with that citing the contradiction but this is just silly. - -Monika "We all come and go unknown..." Yes, Monika, this makes perfect sense to me and, overall, I agree with you. I thought the SHINE review in BLENDER was somewhat catty. It seems like some reviewers are desperate to unearth hypocrisy in order to discount the message of the album. I really disliked SHINE when I first heard it but, with repeated listenings, I am warming to it. Yes, smoking is a personal choice -- even when it becomes an addiction. And one person smoking has no impact on the planet. I just wonder what -- if any - -- impact millions of people simultaneously smoking has on Earth. But you cannot force people to lay down their cigarettes. Contractor Training - Click Here

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Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator – Much More! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:44:11 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Smoke On The Water Hi gang. Since Joni's smoking was raised, I was wondering if Australia now has the toughest smoking laws in the world. Smoking is now banned in ALL public buildings, shops, malls, restaurants, cafes, clubs and pubs. Some local councils have also banned smoking from public parks. Namely, the parks that run along the beaches where people often jog. This was the most controversial of laws. Smoking is only allowed in pubs and cafes where there is an outdoor area, enclosed on 3 sides. Smoking is allowed in a few clubs in Canberra where a very expensive split air conditioning system is installed that prevents smoke from drifting to other areas. I was told that it is illegal in California to smoke in your car now. Can anyone confirm this? There is some talk about introducing that law in New South Wales. It's scary to think of these laws encroaching on personal property. Maybe this is why Joni is reluctant to come to Australia again. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:48:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Smoke On The Water now vljc Smoking in the province of Ontario is banned in all the places you name for Australia, Mark, except that the public parks haven't been touched (yet.) Smoking laws aren't federal here, so they vary from province to province, and cities can also enforce their own smoking bylaws, as long as they're stricter than the provincial ones. Bars/restaurants can provide a smoking area outside. You can smoke on a patio, but I don't think that includes covered patios anymore. Various medical associations and children's advocacy groups have recommended that it be banned anywhere there are children, including people's homes (how would you enforce that? You'd have people snitching on one another.) The smoking laws do get tighter each year, but of course they won't ban it altogether as it brings in huge amounts of tax revenues. Smoking isn't allowed in taxi cabs, but I have been in cabs that smell like smoke (probably the driver smoking when he has no fare in the car.) I've been stuck in a car on a six-hour trip with my nic-fiend sister (it was her car, her rules) and, as a non-smoker (or worse, one of those who used to smoke but quit 25 years ago) and a person with allergies and prone to sinus infections, I don't find this pleasant at all, but if you even broach the subject of smoking with this sister, she gets very defensive and angry. So I try to avoid visiting her for any long periods, or being in her car, or else bring along plenty of decongestants and ibuprofen to deal with the headaches and am lucky I've got a drug plan to cover any prescription antibiotics I might need later. I get a little fed up with the righteousness on both sides and I can be as righteous as any other cigarette-hater, but smoking is a habit that affects other people and it's not just a matter of aesthetics. Fashion faux-pas might be considered criminal by some, but people don't usually require medication if they see people dressed inappropriately. ;-) Of course smoking is not responsible for global warming, nor is it a major source of air pollution (except in enclosed spaces), but I don't think non-smokers should have to inhale second-hand smoke and some smokers get a little too defensive or try to make non-smokers' complaints sound trivial. I don't think Joni is avoiding Australia because of its smoking laws. People seem to bend them very far on her behalf, as she seems to be allowed to smoke in many places where mere mortals would not be allowed. It is probably her post-polio syndrome which prevents her from travelling too often or too far. - --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > Hi gang. Since Joni's smoking was raised, I was > wondering if > Australia now has the toughest smoking laws in the > world. Smoking is > now banned in ALL public buildings, shops, malls, > restaurants, cafes, > clubs and pubs. Some local councils have also banned > smoking from > public parks. Namely, the parks that run along the > beaches where > people often jog. This was the most controversial of > laws. Smoking is > only allowed in pubs and cafes where there is an > outdoor area, > enclosed on 3 sides. Smoking is allowed in a few > clubs in Canberra > where a very expensive split air conditioning system > is installed > that prevents smoke from drifting to other areas. > > I was told that it is illegal in California to smoke > in your car now. > Can anyone confirm this? There is some talk about > introducing that > law in New South Wales. It's scary to think of these > laws encroaching > on personal property. > > Maybe this is why Joni is reluctant to come to > Australia again. > > Mark in Sydney > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:51:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: incredibly dumb question njc - --- ajfashion@att.net wrote: > I thought that that woman who sang on the promo for > the new > Nano was Lily Allen. Now I'm learning it's someone > named > Feist, whom I've heard about from discussion on this > group. > ... > Around these parts, a feist is a little macho > mixed-breed dog > (there are lots of pictures of Faulkner with his). > > Sorry for what is probably the dumbest question ever > asked > on this list. > Probably nowhere near the dumbest question ever asked on this list. Others have already confirmed that it's Feist that sings the song on the nano commercials. As to why she has such a weird name, Feist is her family name. Her full name is Leslie Feist. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:57:16 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Smoke On The Water now vljc On Oct 25, 2007, at 7:48 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > > > I don't think Joni is avoiding Australia because of > its smoking laws. People seem to bend them very far on > her behalf, as she seems to be allowed to smoke in > many places where mere mortals would not be allowed. > It is probably her post-polio syndrome which prevents > her from travelling too often or too far. > Many bar owners in Atlanta don't enforce the smoking ban in their bars. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:19:35 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Smoke On The Water now vljc Thanks Catherine. I always find it fascinating to learn of the lifestyle in other countries (I've always had a special interest in Canada). Of course, I was only joking about Joni not wanting to visit Australia because of the anti-smoking laws. I think she has actually said that she just doesn't like flying long distances. The flight is probably a little shorter now than in the '80s when she was here last. Ironically, today was the arrival of the new Boeing from Singapore - the largest passenger airliner in the world. It's first flight arrived in Sydney today. It's so big, you can book a double bed suite for $100,000. That might be more comfortable for Joni. I doubt that you could smoke on it though. I kind of thought Canada would have varying laws in each province as we do in each state. New South Wales has only enacted the more strict anti-smoking laws in the last year or so. Canberra, being in the federal territory of the ACT, often tests new laws first. I forgot about public transport. Smoking is not allowed on any public transport anywhere in the country - trains, buses, ferries (trams in Melbourne). Even long distance trains. Therefore, you wouldn't be allowed to smoke at all during a train trip from Sydney to Perth. That's about 3 days. Same goes for all flights. I've had friends who were smokers who endured the 36 hour flight to London. They say it's Hell. Most smokers sedate themselves for a long flight like that. Bring on the long talked about sub-orbital flights. Bob Muller hit the nail on the head when he said that the problem is not necessarily the habit but the attitude of the person with the habit. Rudeness can come from all sorts of people. Even before the all the health education and knowledge of smoking, I was always courteous: holding my cigarette away from people and blowing the smoke in the opposite direction. I am always conscious of other people's discomfort. I do the same whether I'm in the company of smokers or non smokers. I don't like preachy people but in my own home (or car) I do as I please (still with courtesy towards those I'm with). I'm always surprised when smoker friends or family visit and they go outside to smoke even though they know it's alright to smoke in my house. They are being conditioned with guilt. I have been amazed to see Joni smoking on talk shows, etc. I doubt that she would be allowed to on Australian TV or in theatres. I don't think they would make an exception for her. On the other hand, she could be interviewed in a hotel or someone's house and still smoke. Which is what I think she did for Today show interview in 1988. I think it was done at her hotel. I believe it was the Sebel Townhouse hotel in Sydney. I should try to post those interviews for the list again. Mark. On 25/10/2007, at 9:48 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > Smoking in the province of Ontario is banned in all > the places you name for Australia, Mark, except that > the public parks haven't been touched (yet.) Smoking > laws aren't federal here, so they vary from province > to province, and cities can also enforce their own > smoking bylaws, as long as they're stricter than the > provincial ones. Bars/restaurants can provide a > smoking area outside. You can smoke on a patio, but I > don't think that includes covered patios anymore. > > Various medical associations and children's advocacy > groups have recommended that it be banned anywhere > there are children, including people's homes (how > would you enforce that? You'd have people snitching on > one another.) The smoking laws do get tighter each > year, but of course they won't ban it altogether as it > brings in huge amounts of tax revenues. > > Smoking isn't allowed in taxi cabs, but I have been in > cabs that smell like smoke (probably the driver > smoking when he has no fare in the car.) > > I've been stuck in a car on a six-hour trip with my > nic-fiend sister (it was her car, her rules) and, as a > non-smoker (or worse, one of those who used to smoke > but quit 25 years ago) and a person with allergies and > prone to sinus infections, I don't find this pleasant > at all, but if you even broach the subject of smoking > with this sister, she gets very defensive and angry. > So I try to avoid visiting her for any long periods, > or being in her car, or else bring along plenty of > decongestants and ibuprofen to deal with the headaches > and am lucky I've got a drug plan to cover any > prescription antibiotics I might need later. > > I get a little fed up with the righteousness on both > sides and I can be as righteous as any other > cigarette-hater, but smoking is a habit that affects > other people and it's not just a matter of aesthetics. > Fashion faux-pas might be considered criminal by > some, but people don't usually require medication if > they see people dressed inappropriately. ;-) > > Of course smoking is not responsible for global > warming, nor is it a major source of air pollution > (except in enclosed spaces), but I don't think > non-smokers should have to inhale second-hand smoke > and some smokers get a little too defensive or try to > make non-smokers' complaints sound trivial. > > I don't think Joni is avoiding Australia because of > its smoking laws. People seem to bend them very far on > her behalf, as she seems to be allowed to smoke in > many places where mere mortals would not be allowed. > It is probably her post-polio syndrome which prevents > her from travelling too often or too far. > > > --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > >> Hi gang. Since Joni's smoking was raised, I was >> wondering if >> Australia now has the toughest smoking laws in the >> world. Smoking is >> now banned in ALL public buildings, shops, malls, >> restaurants, cafes, >> clubs and pubs. Some local councils have also banned >> smoking from >> public parks. Namely, the parks that run along the >> beaches where >> people often jog. This was the most controversial of >> laws. Smoking is >> only allowed in pubs and cafes where there is an >> outdoor area, >> enclosed on 3 sides. Smoking is allowed in a few >> clubs in Canberra >> where a very expensive split air conditioning system >> is installed >> that prevents smoke from drifting to other areas. >> >> I was told that it is illegal in California to smoke >> in your car now. >> Can anyone confirm this? There is some talk about >> introducing that >> law in New South Wales. It's scary to think of these >> laws encroaching >> on personal property. >> >> Maybe this is why Joni is reluctant to come to >> Australia again. >> >> Mark in Sydney >> > > > Catherine > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving > junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http:// > mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:25:50 -0400 From: Coleen Subject: Fiddle and the Drum Good Morning Everyone, I've just uploaded Monday night's broadcast of the Fiddle and the Drum to Limewire in case any of you would like to download it. I had to upload it in three parts (named fiddle and drum 1, 2 and 3), I'm not sure why. When I converted it to a .mov file using iSquint it just split it into 3 parts. It will play using Quicktime. When you log in to Limewire, select video and type Fiddle and Drum in the title box. I think Limewire is just for Mac's - if anyone would like me to post the files somewhere else, just let me know. Coleen np: Baby I'm A Big Star Now - Counting Crows ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:38:25 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: incredibly dumb question njc I posted a few weeks ago about the use of so many female indie singers on commercials, which I personally like a whole lot more than jingle. On the most recent Two and a Half Men (one of my guilty pleasures) the lead character, who is a jingle writer, laments his lack of income because now all the ad agencies are using pop songs instead of jingles. Then on Tuesday a read a big article in Variety that Feist is now better known for that one song in the IPod ad than any of her cd's. Jerry > --- ajfashion@att.net wrote: > >> I thought that that woman who sang on the promo for >> the new >> Nano was Lily Allen. Now I'm learning it's someone >> named >> Feist, whom I've heard about from discussion on this >> group. >> > ... > >> Around these parts, a feist is a little macho >> mixed-breed dog >> (there are lots of pictures of Faulkner with his). >> >> Sorry for what is probably the dumbest question ever >> asked >> on this list. >> > > Probably nowhere near the dumbest question ever asked > on this list. > > Others have already confirmed that it's Feist that > sings the song on the nano commercials. > > As to why she has such a weird name, Feist is her > family name. Her full name is Leslie Feist. > > > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 05:50:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: incredibly dumb question njc and maybe T Rex best known posthumously for "20th Century Boy" on that car commercial. A whole 'nuther generation ended up hearing T Rex cuz of that, I think. :) Em - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > Then on > Tuesday > a read a big article in Variety that Feist is now better known for > that one > song in the IPod ad than any of her cd's. "You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm." Sidonie Gabrielle Colette ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:00:57 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: Neil Young Bonus Track NJC Reminds me of the crazy strategy with Herbie Hancock's "River". You were actually penalized for buying the CD in a store as them Amazon version came with two bonus tracks, and the itunes download had another two (and you had to pay for the entire album download to get them). Bob NP: Laura Nyro, "Lite A Flame (The Animal Rights Song)" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:01:29 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... Catherine, I have enjoyed this little ditty from Susan Werner: [.] Our Father (The New, Revised Edition) Thy kingdom come to every nation Thy will be done in everything we do Lord, lead us not into temptation And deliver us from those who think they're You Lord send us forth to be of service To build the schools and dig the wells And deliver us from the creepy preachers With their narrow minds and very wide lapels Lord give us strength to bring compassion to every corner of the world And please allow for women in the Catholic priesthood And remind the pope that he coulda been a girl Lord deliver us from politicians Who drop Your name in every speech As if they're Your best friend from high school As if they practice what they preach - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" To: ; Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:35 PM Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... > --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > > >> Religion is a human attempt at making sense of a >> reality too big for our >> little human minds to fully comprehend... just like >> fairy tales are an >> attempt to relate big people realities in little >> stories to children. If there >> weren't people there'd be no religion; just like if >> there weren't children >> there wouldn't be fairy tales. >> >> Religion in my opinion is a human thing, and to >> cast it all off, to >> condemn it by focusing only on the corruption and >> bad rather than seeing the >> human beauty, the art, in it is not very tolerant. >> Yin without the yang and the >> ball don't roll. >> > > I think it's possible to have a religion, or a > philosophy, of life that tries to explain the point of > it all without the bureaucracy attached. I guess my > main grip with the catholic church (a gripe that can > be applied to many other religions, but my personal > experience is with the RC church) is that, each time > the believer tries to see the things about the faith > that are beautiful, they are slapped back into reality > by fundamentalist types imposing too many ridiculous > rules about what is and isn't OK to believe in, about > who can/can't say mass, and so on. > > I've known a lot of religious Catholic people who were > wonderful, caring open-minded individuals who embraced > other beliefs and faiths as easily as they did their > own and saw them all as equally valid, but then there > are the rule-setting petty-minded little tyrants who > want to impose their own narrow views on everyone. And > those are the ones who want to slap down anyone who > tries to be more liberal-minded. > > And then they get ridiculous with the "mysteries" of > the church - such as, when the priest consecrates the > bread and wine, he is *literally* turning it into the > body and blood of Jesus, which is foolish, illogical > and, let's face it, cannibalistic and gross. > > I can get beautiful concepts and philosophies from > many sources and I love reading myths from many > cultures and religions and, despite being agnostic, I > certainly do love the *idea* of a god or goddess of > some kind, but ultimately, I believe that whatever is > godly lies within us all. > > I am quite sure that the abusers are a small minority, > but it's the petty-mindedness and literal > interpretations of bible text by some of the > priesthood and the faithful that drives me crazy. > There's a lot of art and beauty in that faith, as > there are in many faiths, but it's undermined by the > other foolishness. > > And it's just too male-dominated for my liking. Let > them elect a pope (or would that be a Big Mama?) who > is female and under 80 and maybe I'll pay attention. > > > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:26:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... Yeah. Another Susan Werner fan. I was turned on to her by Sharon Goldberg (from whom we haven't heard a peep, lately.) Jerry Happy The Man wrote: > Catherine, > > I have enjoyed this little ditty from Susan Werner: > > [.] Our Father (The New, Revised Edition) > Thy kingdom come to every nation > Thy will be done in everything we do > Lord, lead us not into temptation > And deliver us > from those who think they're You > > Lord send us forth to be of service > To build the schools and dig the wells > And deliver us from the creepy preachers > With their narrow minds and very wide lapels > > Lord give us strength to bring compassion > to every corner of the world > And please allow for women in the Catholic priesthood > And remind the pope that he coulda been a girl > > Lord deliver us from politicians > Who drop Your name in every speech > As if they're Your best friend from high school > As if they practice what they preach > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catherine McKay" > To: ; > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:35 PM > Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... > > >> --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: >> >> >>> Religion is a human attempt at making sense of a >>> reality too big for our >>> little human minds to fully comprehend... just like >>> fairy tales are an >>> attempt to relate big people realities in little >>> stories to children. If there >>> weren't people there'd be no religion; just like if >>> there weren't children >>> there wouldn't be fairy tales. >>> >>> Religion in my opinion is a human thing, and to >>> cast it all off, to >>> condemn it by focusing only on the corruption and >>> bad rather than seeing the >>> human beauty, the art, in it is not very tolerant. >>> Yin without the yang and the >>> ball don't roll. >>> >> >> I think it's possible to have a religion, or a >> philosophy, of life that tries to explain the point of >> it all without the bureaucracy attached. I guess my >> main grip with the catholic church (a gripe that can >> be applied to many other religions, but my personal >> experience is with the RC church) is that, each time >> the believer tries to see the things about the faith >> that are beautiful, they are slapped back into reality >> by fundamentalist types imposing too many ridiculous >> rules about what is and isn't OK to believe in, about >> who can/can't say mass, and so on. >> >> I've known a lot of religious Catholic people who were >> wonderful, caring open-minded individuals who embraced >> other beliefs and faiths as easily as they did their >> own and saw them all as equally valid, but then there >> are the rule-setting petty-minded little tyrants who >> want to impose their own narrow views on everyone. And >> those are the ones who want to slap down anyone who >> tries to be more liberal-minded. >> >> And then they get ridiculous with the "mysteries" of >> the church - such as, when the priest consecrates the >> bread and wine, he is *literally* turning it into the >> body and blood of Jesus, which is foolish, illogical >> and, let's face it, cannibalistic and gross. >> >> I can get beautiful concepts and philosophies from >> many sources and I love reading myths from many >> cultures and religions and, despite being agnostic, I >> certainly do love the *idea* of a god or goddess of >> some kind, but ultimately, I believe that whatever is >> godly lies within us all. >> >> I am quite sure that the abusers are a small minority, >> but it's the petty-mindedness and literal >> interpretations of bible text by some of the >> priesthood and the faithful that drives me crazy. >> There's a lot of art and beauty in that faith, as >> there are in many faiths, but it's undermined by the >> other foolishness. >> >> And it's just too male-dominated for my liking. Let >> them elect a pope (or would that be a Big Mama?) who >> is female and under 80 and maybe I'll pay attention. >> >> >> Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:00:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryan Subject: Subject: Re: Blender Magazine - Shine Review - The voice >Subject: Re: Blender Magazine - Shine Review >Of course, smoking is a terrible addictive habit. But in my opinion, Joni's voice has never been better than it is on Shine. I am kind of ticked off with the reviewers who talk about Joni's smoky voice on Shine. Anyone who has listened through the years (all the way through) will quickly discern that her voice on Shine is vastly improved over the last couple of newly recorded CDs (BSN and, especially, Travelogue). It's as if they write that about her voice because they think they're supposed to. Yes of course the voice is affected by years of smoking (no doubt!) but on Shine, the effects are modest. One must assume that Joni's claim that she rehabbed the voice through rest and larynx decompression is true. Something certainly worked. Some great singing on this album. So...it's time for me to eat some (black) crow. When Travelogue was released, I said Joni's singing days were over and the cigs were to blame. I was wrong! How often do I admit that?! Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:03:37 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... Yeah it was one Ashara who dragged me to her concert in Kerrville that turned me on to her, now I get the great pleasure of challenging the 20's class at church with her lovely music. I started the class by having them do a critical analysis of "Shine" which was great. I'm calling the class "12 Steps to detoxification of Christian fundamentalism" They had to admit that they were Fundamentalist first, that being the first on the road to recovery and the election is only 12 months away (which i'm already f#&king tired of hearing about.). Were following this class up with "Paul's not as big an asshole as you think he is." Peace, Craig NP: Eliza Gilkyson - Bellarosa - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "Happy The Man" Cc: "Catherine McKay" ; ; Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:26 AM Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... > Yeah. Another Susan Werner fan. I was turned on to her by Sharon Goldberg > (from whom we haven't heard a peep, lately.) > > Jerry > > Happy The Man wrote: >> Catherine, >> >> I have enjoyed this little ditty from Susan Werner: >> >> [.] Our Father (The New, Revised Edition) >> Thy kingdom come to every nation >> Thy will be done in everything we do >> Lord, lead us not into temptation >> And deliver us >> from those who think they're You >> >> Lord send us forth to be of service >> To build the schools and dig the wells >> And deliver us from the creepy preachers >> With their narrow minds and very wide lapels >> >> Lord give us strength to bring compassion >> to every corner of the world >> And please allow for women in the Catholic priesthood >> And remind the pope that he coulda been a girl >> >> Lord deliver us from politicians >> Who drop Your name in every speech >> As if they're Your best friend from high school >> As if they practice what they preach >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Catherine McKay" >> To: ; >> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:35 PM >> Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... >> >> >>> --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Religion is a human attempt at making sense of a >>>> reality too big for our >>>> little human minds to fully comprehend... just like >>>> fairy tales are an >>>> attempt to relate big people realities in little >>>> stories to children. If there >>>> weren't people there'd be no religion; just like if >>>> there weren't children >>>> there wouldn't be fairy tales. >>>> >>>> Religion in my opinion is a human thing, and to >>>> cast it all off, to >>>> condemn it by focusing only on the corruption and >>>> bad rather than seeing the >>>> human beauty, the art, in it is not very tolerant. >>>> Yin without the yang and the >>>> ball don't roll. >>>> >>> >>> I think it's possible to have a religion, or a >>> philosophy, of life that tries to explain the point of >>> it all without the bureaucracy attached. I guess my >>> main grip with the catholic church (a gripe that can >>> be applied to many other religions, but my personal >>> experience is with the RC church) is that, each time >>> the believer tries to see the things about the faith >>> that are beautiful, they are slapped back into reality >>> by fundamentalist types imposing too many ridiculous >>> rules about what is and isn't OK to believe in, about >>> who can/can't say mass, and so on. >>> >>> I've known a lot of religious Catholic people who were >>> wonderful, caring open-minded individuals who embraced >>> other beliefs and faiths as easily as they did their >>> own and saw them all as equally valid, but then there >>> are the rule-setting petty-minded little tyrants who >>> want to impose their own narrow views on everyone. And >>> those are the ones who want to slap down anyone who >>> tries to be more liberal-minded. >>> >>> And then they get ridiculous with the "mysteries" of >>> the church - such as, when the priest consecrates the >>> bread and wine, he is *literally* turning it into the >>> body and blood of Jesus, which is foolish, illogical >>> and, let's face it, cannibalistic and gross. >>> >>> I can get beautiful concepts and philosophies from >>> many sources and I love reading myths from many >>> cultures and religions and, despite being agnostic, I >>> certainly do love the *idea* of a god or goddess of >>> some kind, but ultimately, I believe that whatever is >>> godly lies within us all. >>> >>> I am quite sure that the abusers are a small minority, >>> but it's the petty-mindedness and literal >>> interpretations of bible text by some of the >>> priesthood and the faithful that drives me crazy. >>> There's a lot of art and beauty in that faith, as >>> there are in many faiths, but it's undermined by the >>> other foolishness. >>> >>> And it's just too male-dominated for my liking. Let >>> them elect a pope (or would that be a Big Mama?) who >>> is female and under 80 and maybe I'll pay attention. >>> >>> >>> Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:47:09 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: SJC. Zenith to nadir and back Greetings Joni pals, October has been a wild month. On Oct 4th my favorite fingerstyle guitarist, the nonpareil Australian Tommy Emmanuel came to San Diego for two nights to play a concert (night one) and give a workshop(night two). I'd never seen him live before but have marveled at his playing for years. I went the second night to the workshop and sat with 25 other guitarists, their high-end axes slung over their shoulders, watching and listening in awe and asking questions of the master. He said that growing up his musical influences were not guitarists but singer songwriters, for their melodic innovation, and named Joni as one of them. At the end he invited anyone to come up and play, which of course made everyone shrivel in timidity. I decided to go for it and asked if he'd like to play a Joni tune. So I suggested we play BSN as I have an instrumental fingerstyle arrangement worked up and he was delighted. So there we were playing BSN acoustically to a room full of hotshot players, just me and God (no offence to any believers on the list) and he's killing me with improvised virtuosity while I'm trying to keep it together. If I say so myself, I sounded good, and Tommy gave me all kinds of compliments afterwards for my arrangement and chord voicings. I told him afterwards that had been one of the highlights of my life and he said he hoped we could do it again some time. I buzzed for two weeks. That was the zenith of the month. Last Monday we were evacuated from the wildfires in Fallbrook as they were raging all around us and wiped out over 500 homes in our little town of 40,000. According to Google maps the fire perimeter came up to out fence. Our house is 120 years old and a wooden tinderbox surrounded by huge sycamores with bone dry leaves. In other words a roman candle above a can of gas. Our chances of the place (house and recording studio) surviving were basically nil. We tried to get updates online but really couldn't find accurate info. The nadir of the month for sure, if not the decade. Today we find our place survived unscathed, although surrounded by massive fires for three days, and we hope to be allowed back in by tomorrow. If I were a religious man, I'd say the prayers of our friends both known and unknown, including many of you, made the difference. Thanks you all for your kind thoughts and best wishes. Even though much of the neighborhood is probably a black moonscape our 17 acres came out with nary a bruise. Today is another zenith. love to all of you, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:03:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Smoke On The Water now njc I can't speak for all of America but in the part of Ohio I live in, smoking is banned in restaurants and bars. I recently went to a restaurant and asked for the "non-smoking" section. The hostess told me it's all non-smoking and I just smiled mischieviously (I don't smoke cigarettes). Now the smoking in bars ban really got enforced this past May. Before that, bars still let its customers smoke. I will say it's kind of nice to come home from a bar and not smell like smoke though that was always part of the experience (only kidding). But you still smell like alcohol when someone spills some on you. I know this has been enforced because about a month or two ago I was at a bar with a friend when three people (who were there together) lit up. They tried for about almost an hour to get drinks but the bartenders were ignoring them. Then the bar owner noticed they were upset and told them he doesn't serve anyone that smokes in his bar. Needless to say, heated words were said and they left. Now I don't mind smokers as long as no one blows smoke in my face (purposely or accidently with the wind). I've got a couple of friends who smoke (more who don't which a few years ago wasn't the case) but they don't bother me. As for smoking in my car, if it is warm outside, I'll let them smoke as long as they have their window open. If it is cold, no smoking in my car! I hate the cold like nothing else. And I wouldn't let my "no smoking in my car when its cold" rule slide for anyone! Sorry Joni. If its cold, windows stay up, cigarettes stay in their pack. I also don't let people eat in my car. Don't you try and messy up Mort Jr.! He stays clean man. -Monika "We all come and go unknown..." Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: Thanks Catherine. I always find it fascinating to learn of the lifestyle in other countries (I've always had a special interest in Canada). Of course, I was only joking about Joni not wanting to visit Australia because of the anti-smoking laws. I think she has actually said that she just doesn't like flying long distances. The flight is probably a little shorter now than in the '80s when she was here last. Ironically, today was the arrival of the new Boeing from Singapore - the largest passenger airliner in the world. It's first flight arrived in Sydney today. It's so big, you can book a double bed suite for $100,000. That might be more comfortable for Joni. I doubt that you could smoke on it though. I kind of thought Canada would have varying laws in each province as we do in each state. New South Wales has only enacted the more strict anti-smoking laws in the last year or so. Canberra, being in the federal territory of the ACT, often tests new laws first. I forgot about public transport. Smoking is not allowed on any public transport anywhere in the country - trains, buses, ferries (trams in Melbourne). Even long distance trains. Therefore, you wouldn't be allowed to smoke at all during a train trip from Sydney to Perth. That's about 3 days. Same goes for all flights. I've had friends who were smokers who endured the 36 hour flight to London. They say it's Hell. Most smokers sedate themselves for a long flight like that. Bring on the long talked about sub-orbital flights. Bob Muller hit the nail on the head when he said that the problem is not necessarily the habit but the attitude of the person with the habit. Rudeness can come from all sorts of people. Even before the all the health education and knowledge of smoking, I was always courteous: holding my cigarette away from people and blowing the smoke in the opposite direction. I am always conscious of other people's discomfort. I do the same whether I'm in the company of smokers or non smokers. I don't like preachy people but in my own home (or car) I do as I please (still with courtesy towards those I'm with). I'm always surprised when smoker friends or family visit and they go outside to smoke even though they know it's alright to smoke in my house. They are being conditioned with guilt. I have been amazed to see Joni smoking on talk shows, etc. I doubt that she would be allowed to on Australian TV or in theatres. I don't think they would make an exception for her. On the other hand, she could be interviewed in a hotel or someone's house and still smoke. Which is what I think she did for Today show interview in 1988. I think it was done at her hotel. I believe it was the Sebel Townhouse hotel in Sydney. I should try to post those interviews for the list again. Mark. On 25/10/2007, at 9:48 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > Smoking in the province of Ontario is banned in all > the places you name for Australia, Mark, except that > the public parks haven't been touched (yet.) Smoking > laws aren't federal here, so they vary from province > to province, and cities can also enforce their own > smoking bylaws, as long as they're stricter than the > provincial ones. Bars/restaurants can provide a > smoking area outside. You can smoke on a patio, but I > don't think that includes covered patios anymore. > > Various medical associations and children's advocacy > groups have recommended that it be banned anywhere > there are children, including people's homes (how > would you enforce that? You'd have people snitching on > one another.) The smoking laws do get tighter each > year, but of course they won't ban it altogether as it > brings in huge amounts of tax revenues. > > Smoking isn't allowed in taxi cabs, but I have been in > cabs that smell like smoke (probably the driver > smoking when he has no fare in the car.) > > I've been stuck in a car on a six-hour trip with my > nic-fiend sister (it was her car, her rules) and, as a > non-smoker (or worse, one of those who used to smoke > but quit 25 years ago) and a person with allergies and > prone to sinus infections, I don't find this pleasant > at all, but if you even broach the subject of smoking > with this sister, she gets very defensive and angry. > So I try to avoid visiting her for any long periods, > or being in her car, or else bring along plenty of > decongestants and ibuprofen to deal with the headaches > and am lucky I've got a drug plan to cover any > prescription antibiotics I might need later. > > I get a little fed up with the righteousness on both > sides and I can be as righteous as any other > cigarette-hater, but smoking is a habit that affects > other people and it's not just a matter of aesthetics. > Fashion faux-pas might be considered criminal by > some, but people don't usually require medication if > they see people dressed inappropriately. ;-) > > Of course smoking is not responsible for global > warming, nor is it a major source of air pollution > (except in enclosed spaces), but I don't think > non-smokers should have to inhale second-hand smoke > and some smokers get a little too defensive or try to > make non-smokers' complaints sound trivial. > > I don't think Joni is avoiding Australia because of > its smoking laws. People seem to bend them very far on > her behalf, as she seems to be allowed to smoke in > many places where mere mortals would not be allowed. > It is probably her post-polio syndrome which prevents > her from travelling too often or too far. > > > --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > >> Hi gang. Since Joni's smoking was raised, I was >> wondering if >> Australia now has the toughest smoking laws in the >> world. Smoking is >> now banned in ALL public buildings, shops, malls, >> restaurants, cafes, >> clubs and pubs. Some local councils have also banned >> smoking from >> public parks. Namely, the parks that run along the >> beaches where >> people often jog. This was the most controversial of >> laws. Smoking is >> only allowed in pubs and cafes where there is an >> outdoor area, >> enclosed on 3 sides. Smoking is allowed in a few >> clubs in Canberra >> where a very expensive split air conditioning system >> is installed >> that prevents smoke from drifting to other areas. >> >> I was told that it is illegal in California to smoke >> in your car now. >> Can anyone confirm this? There is some talk about >> introducing that >> law in New South Wales. It's scary to think of these >> laws encroaching >> on personal property. >> >> Maybe this is why Joni is reluctant to come to >> Australia again. >> >> Mark in Sydney >> > > > Catherine > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving > junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http:// > mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:10:44 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: SJC. Zenith to nadir and back NJC Dave, What a wonderful story about the guitarist, and of course I am beyond joyful that your home and workshop is all intact. Thanks for keeping us informed. I am sorry for those around you who didn't come out as well. Bob NP: Karrin Allyson, "The Meaning Of The Blues" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:42:31 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: SJC. Zenith to nadir and back Dave, I have a sister in Encinitas. She and her husband were glued to the TV listening to news reports for three days. When they heard on Monday night that one of the fires had travelled 40 miles overnight to El Rancho (?) (8 miles away from them), they packed up their cars with all their valuables, prepared to evacuate at a moment's notice. She said she has never been so scared in all her life and that it was weird trying to decide what to try to save. They didn't have to evacuate in the end, but both of them are very tired and stressed and also sad for all of the people who have lost their homes. I am glad for your good fortune in escaping with your 120 year old home intact. I hope some of your trees survived, too, and I hope you can move back in soon. Joni should write at least one song about this tragedy. All the best to you, Marian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Blackburn" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:47 PM Subject: SJC. Zenith to nadir and back > Last Monday we were evacuated from the wildfires in Fallbrook as they > were raging all around us and wiped out over 500 homes in our little > town of 40,000. According to Google maps the fire perimeter came up > to out fence. Our house is 120 years old and a wooden tinderbox > surrounded by huge sycamores with bone dry leaves. In other words a > roman candle above a can of gas. Our chances of the place (house and > recording studio) surviving were basically nil. We tried to get > updates online but really couldn't find accurate info. The nadir of > the month for sure, if not the decade. > > Today we find our place survived unscathed, although surrounded by > massive fires for three days, and we hope to be allowed back in by > tomorrow. If I were a religious man, I'd say the prayers of our > friends both known and unknown, including many of you, made the > difference. Thanks you all for your kind thoughts and best wishes. > Even though much of the neighborhood is probably a black moonscape > our 17 acres came out with nary a bruise. Today is another zenith. > > > love to all of you, > > Dave ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #430 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------