From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #422 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, October 21 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 422 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- SV: His Story SJC ["Marion Leffler" ] Bad Dreams are Good? ["Marian Russell" ] SJC Sandy Denny ["Oddmund Kaarevik" ] NJC Issa ! ["Oddmund Kaarevik" ] shine on the catholic church... [ben ben ] Re: now assholes passing on the right (njc) [Victor Johnson ] re: Jungle Gardenia [c Karma ] Chaka - Maybe SJC ["Jerry Notaro" ] another intro favorite [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: shine on the catholic church... [Catherine McKay ] Re: Jungle Gardenia ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: shine on the catholic church... [Victor Johnson ] Joni Mitchell for the little ones - That Baby DVD & CD [est86mlm@amerite] No Fiddle on American Bravo ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: shine on the catholic church... ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #332 [ROSCOE1TC@aol.com] Re: shine on the catholic church... [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni Mitchell for the little ones - That Baby DVD & CD [Bob Muller <] Re: Worst Shine review! [Deb Messling ] Re: Shine favorite/least favorite../now assholes passing on the right [mi] Re: Worst Shine review! [Monika Bogdanowicz ] NJC WIN! [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: now assholes passing on the right (njc) [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: shine on the catholic church... ["Marian Russell" ] John Mayer and James Blunt?? Are You Kidding? ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Bad Dreams are Good? ["Marian Russell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:06:59 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: His Story SJC Let me ask another (rhetorical!) question: is there any queen in history under whose reign there wasn't a war or other violent actions? You could say that women in power are still subject to men in power but that's just a little too simple. Women like queen Elizabeth I and queen Christina of Sweden certainly did have minds of their own and real power. What I am trying to say is that we cannot know if women are more peaceful "by nature" than men. There has not been a society yet in which women in sufficiently large numbers had enough power to act in ways different from men's ways in politics. Hence we do not know if women in power would not start wars. It would depend on the kind of society they would be able to create. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Eric Taylor Skickat: den 21 oktober 2007 09:09 Till: jmdl Dmne: His Story SJC Just a little comment on "men love war, is that what history/God is for?" Just the sound of it shakes my soul. ~A mass murder mystery, history, his story.~ I likewise concluded that long ago. Can anyone here name one woman who started a war or caused genocide? Besides OK Ann Cunter...??? Oh lord I'm in trouble now! ET $ when this place is a moonscape don't tell me I didn't warn ya $ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:16:44 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Bad Dreams are Good? Hi everybody. Finally got my copy of Shine last Monday. I really love If, BYT, Bad Dreams, and Night Of The Iguana. It's really such a thrill that Joni is still making music. Her voice sounds really fantastic. I love the accordion in BYT and the mandolin on Night of the Iguana. Does anyone think maybe she's using dulcimer in BYT? I can't tell. Has the meaning of "bad dreams are good in the great plan" already been discussed? I just wonder what she means by that! Marian NP: BYT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:08:05 +0200 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: SJC Sandy Denny I was so lucky this week, in my hunt for any Jane Siberry's CD's I ended up in the music library in Oslo. Actually I found the CD "Maria" from 1995, but I also stumbled over Sandy Denny "A boxful of treasures" Catherine said to me a year ago, at there are many treats for me there, Catherine you have not been proved wrong ! What a marvelous voice she has ! And she sings with such integrity ! Right now I can't stop playing her beautiful Joni Cover of "I don't know where I stand" Such a powerful song ! I think even more powerful in Sandy's version. Oh, so lucky to have all these great female artist to listen too. They bring me so much pleasure, so much joy ! Best ! Oddmund, Norway ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:02:55 +0200 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: NJC Issa ! Thanks a lot for sharing your thougts on Issa ! I first noticed Jean Siberry's name in 2004 wen k.d.lang relased her beautiful album "Hymns of the 49th.paralell, but I never checked her out 'till this very week, and what I heard really blew me away ! She seems like a higly original voice in todau's music industry, she follows her own path, and she seems toh ave so much to give. Her voice is fascinating, both weak and strong, I love her falsetto voice on "Love is everything" She quit realising CD's some years ago, and when I was asking for her CD's in one secindhand shop and a good musi shop in Oslo, they had NOTHING! Shame, but we can get downloads from Sheeba.ca except,some of the downloads are only available to those of you living in the US and Canada. The song that is really hunting me for the moment is "One more colour" I heard that song first in 1998 when I watched Atom Egoyans movie Sweet hereafter" Sara Polleys version of the song made a huge impact on me, and haunted me for years. Than this week trhrough Wikipedia I discovered it was a Jane Siberry song. What a lady ! Best and love from a Children's librarian and musiclover in Norway! Oddmund ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:59:39 -0400 From: ben ben Subject: shine on the catholic church... ...and the prisons that it owns. Does anyone know what this refers to. Ben (occasional lurker) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:03:04 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: now assholes passing on the right (njc) On Oct 20, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > I wouldn't take that lyric too seriously. Afterall, she does say > "shine on another asshole" rather than "to hell with that asshole > passing on the right." She's got some sympathy even for the > asshole! Even without that, I wouldn't take it to heart. If you > think about it, you can understand. > Even though I drive fast (and pass people up) I still have > people pass me up. What really irritates me is when I am already > driving 10-15 MPH over the speed limit and someone STILL passes > me. It's just irritating and I'd imagine that's all Joni means by > that. It's pure aggravation. You know you get a little worked up > too at times when someone passes you. I especially hate it when > the road is two lanes (which soon merges into one) and the person > to the right of you speeds up like hell just to get in front of you > before the lanes merge. These people think just because they pass > you, it'll get them home earlier by what? A few seconds? A minute > maybe? What's the rush? A minute or an x amount of seconds isn't > going to do shit. Even more irritating is when someone does this > to you and then HE/SHE proceeds to drive abnormally slow.... > I think some people are obsessed with being in a hurry and don't know how to sit still. Several times now in Atlanta, I've been waiting to make a left turn on a busy road, waiting till there's a break in the traffic, knowing I can't necessarily see the oncoming traffic if there are cars waiting to turn the opposite way, and people behind me are in such a hurry, I've seen them cross over the double yellow line, pull around me on my left in the wrong lane, and make a left turn in front of me, while I'm still waiting....which is illegal and dangerous. And then just the other day, I was driving to school in the morning, the traffic was really backed up - we weren't going anywhere- and I saw someone up ahead, waiting for someone to let them in. I saw there was only one car coming the opposite way in the other lane so I stopped to give them plenty of space to enter into the lane. The person behind me, roared on the gas and pulled around me....which is completely idiotic seeing as everything is backed up anyway. I think they just don't know what to do if they have to sit still for any length of time more than 5 seconds. In a big hurry to go nowhere. Truly absurd. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:54:21 +0200 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: NJC Blues band Hi Bene ! I love it too ! "Bottle up 'n go" The boys were really sweet and truly enthusiastic ! Thanks a lot for sharing ! Best ! Oddmund ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:03:51 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: re: Jungle Gardenia Jimmy wrote: In 1975, she had Rousseau painting a jungle flower. In 1977, she had the smell of Jungle Gardenia. So, I thought there was a vase in the washroom with a flower in it, as a throwback to "The Jungle Line". Wrong. "Jungle Gardenia" is a perfume. http://tinyurl.com/22asjk I knew the lines were about smells that clash but it's more literal than I thought. You are correct! Now this is sure to add speculation but I read that the fragrance "Jungle Gardenia" was a signature of the presence of Elizabeth Taylor before she starting creating and marketing her own. CC _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:03:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Chaka - Maybe SJC Chaka Khan is featured on CBS Sunday Norning right now. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:18:38 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: another intro favorite Harry's House (Centerpiece) on HOSL. I love the sound of the musical plane coming down onto the runway and then the bouncy walking instrumental into the mellowness of the begining of her singing. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:24:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... - --- ben ben wrote: > ...and the prisons that it owns. Does anyone know > what this refers to. > > Ben (occasional lurker) > Ben, I think it's a bit of a mystery and, IMO, the biggest clunker in a song that is otherwise, for me at least, almost perfect. Someone (sorry, but I don't remember who) mentioned a day or two ago that, if she's referring to the Magdelene Laundries, she's a bit late for that. If she's referring to the prison of religious dogma, I guess it's not obvious enough and, if you're looking for dogma, there are worse examples than the catholic church, despite the efforts of some to turn the clock back a century or so. If she means something literal, like, for example, does the catholic church own a stake in any for-real prisons, then there doesn't seem to be any evidence for that, at least in a very quick google scan. As others have mentioned, if she wanted to single out the catholic church for something, then she might have mentioned something about its perverse denial or, at least, fluffing off of pedophile priests as if the matter were of little importance. If I were their PR person, I think I'd have handled all that very differently. On the other hand, she does go on to say, "Shine on all the churches", so possibly she's telling us that churches are all flawed and need to be exposed to some good fresh air and sunshine. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:49:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: now assholes passing on the right (njc) > On Oct 20, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Monika Bogdanowicz > wrote: > > > I wouldn't take that lyric too seriously. > Afterall, she does say > > "shine on another asshole" rather than "to hell > with that asshole > > passing on the right." She's got some sympathy > even for the > > asshole! Even without that, I wouldn't take it to > heart. If you > > think about it, you can understand. Yeah, I think so. I think she's also telling herself, and anyone listening to her song, not to sweat the small stuff. It's too easy to get caught up in the fact that some idiot does something stupid and dangerous and to try to retaliate in kind. So, shine on 'em, bless 'em, stay calm, because you'll probably never see that person again anyway. and Victor Johnson replied: > I think some people are obsessed with being in a > hurry and don't know > how to sit still. I think you're right and I've sometimes been caught up in that myself, but, if you stop to think for a minute, usually you can tell yourself to relax, what's the big hurry, and how much of what we do is really so important that it's worth risking an accident to get there maybe ten seconds earlier (unless you get stopped by the cops, which will delay you much more). I guess some people aren't capable of talking themselves down, or else they think they're more important than others. I keep trying to tell myself that it ain't my problem and that their nasty driving habits and bad manners will catch up with them eventually, but sometimes it's just not easy. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:58:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... I couldn't disagree more, Catherine. Whether, or not, the Catholic Church still owns the Magdelene Laundries, or the prisons of the Inquisition, or the Crusades, the effects remain the same on past history and current political and social conditions. I'm with Joni on this one. Jerry Catherine McKay wrote: > --- ben ben wrote: > >> ...and the prisons that it owns. Does anyone know >> what this refers to. >> >> Ben (occasional lurker) >> > > Ben, I think it's a bit of a mystery and, IMO, the > biggest clunker in a song that is otherwise, for me at > least, almost perfect. > > Someone (sorry, but I don't remember who) mentioned a > day or two ago that, if she's referring to the > Magdelene Laundries, she's a bit late for that. If > she's referring to the prison of religious dogma, I > guess it's not obvious enough and, if you're looking > for dogma, there are worse examples than the catholic > church, despite the efforts of some to turn the clock > back a century or so. > > If she means something literal, like, for example, > does the catholic church own a stake in any for-real > prisons, then there doesn't seem to be any evidence > for that, at least in a very quick google scan. > > As others have mentioned, if she wanted to single out > the catholic church for something, then she might have > mentioned something about its perverse denial or, at > least, fluffing off of pedophile priests as if the > matter were of little importance. If I were their PR > person, I think I'd have handled all that very > differently. > > On the other hand, she does go on to say, "Shine on > all the churches", so possibly she's telling us that > churches are all flawed and need to be exposed to some > good fresh air and sunshine. > > > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:08:07 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Jungle Gardenia I'm Jim L'Hommedieu, in Ohio. Jimmy is in Florida. Jim L. - ----- Original Message ----- Jimmy wrote: In 1975, she had Rousseau painting a jungle flower. In 1977, she had the smell of Jungle Gardenia. So, I thought there was a vase in the washroom with a flower in it, as a throwback to "The Jungle Line". Wrong. "Jungle Gardenia" is a perfume. http://tinyurl.com/22asjk I knew the lines were about smells that clash but it's more literal than I thought. You are correct! Now this is sure to add speculation but I read that the fragrance "Jungle Gardenia" was a signature of the presence of Elizabeth Taylor before she starting creating and marketing her own. CC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:13:37 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... On Oct 21, 2007, at 9:24 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > > As others have mentioned, if she wanted to single out > the catholic church for something, then she might have > mentioned something about its perverse denial or, at > least, fluffing off of pedophile priests as if the > matter were of little importance. If I were their PR > person, I think I'd have handled all that very > differently. I was thinking that maybe that's what she was trying to refer to, albeit in kind of a weird way. Maybe she was talking about a figurative prison, the mental, spiritual place someone who was being abused might be in. The Catholic church would be the party held responsible and I guess in some sense, the church where this person was serving would seem like a prison, by extension, to the victim. In any case, in the context of the song, it is nothing more than a passing mention, and certainly doesn't deserve all the negative attention that is being/ has been heaped upon it. Victor NP: Mark Knopfler "Secondary Waltz" from- kill to get crimson, a fantastic album that was just released the other week. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:22:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > I couldn't disagree more, Catherine. Whether, or > not, the Catholic Church > still owns the Magdelene Laundries, or the prisons > of the Inquisition, or > the Crusades, the effects remain the same on past > history and current > political and social conditions. I'm with Joni on > this one. > I don't disagree with that. The effects are long-lasting, of course, and trust humankind to twist a philosophy of "Love one another" into the dogmatic, backward-facing, head-in-the-sand, sanctimonious, male-dominated, homophobic bureaucracy it is today. Like many here, I'm a recovering catholic (with no disrespect to those who still get something out of it, even if I can't understand it.) And not that I want Joni to necessarily spell everything out, but I guess she could have chosen better words. On the other hand, as I think about it, maybe it is the use of that particular word - "prisons" - that makes some of us stop and think about it for a long time, so, in fact, it may be a very good choice of word. I'm still thinking about that. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:24:00 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite My pet peeve is when I'm driving on the freeway, there are 3 packed lanes of cars going 65 or 70, when a motorcycle approaches doing 90 or 100 mph. He dodges between lanes, threading in an out, at hair raising speed. It's not that I hate it so much as it scares me and I don't want to pick his brains out of my radiator. Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:32:31 +0000 From: Sherelle Smith Subject: Re: This just in!!! Congratulations Victor! I'll be there in spirit as well! Santa Barbara is a beautiful place and you will be right there where she recorded "Shadows and Light"! Kate Bennett was kind enough to show me what she could of it when I was there for a visit. And by the way, I could use a California fix too! Sherelle Victor wrote: Rumour has it I'll be playing in the Joni Mitchell tribute at Soho Restaurant in Santa Barbara on Nov. 11th. Actually, its not a rumour...it is absolutely true! I just booked my flight today. I already know of a few jmdl people who will be attending but it would be great to meet anybody else who is thinking of coming. Should be an awesome night! Victor, needing a California fix _________________________________________________________________ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:34:38 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: Joni Mitchell for the little ones - That Baby DVD & CD OyBaby LLC releases That Baby DVD and That Baby CD for children 0-5, featuring acoustic cover versions of songs made popular by Fleetwood Mac, Neil Diamond, The Pretenders, Joni Mitchell, and others. http://www.prweb.com/releases/baby/dvd/prweb561970.htm http://www.thatbabydvd.com/ "That Baby DVD features hip acoustic cover versions of songs made popular by artists such as Fleetwood Mac, Neil Diamond, The Pretenders, Joni Mitchell, and 10,000 Maniacs" Bob, A new cover maybe?? Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:46:09 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: No Fiddle on American Bravo Just wondering if anyone can shed some light - the BravoTv site doesn't have anything listed about Joni's ballet film at all - and it's supposed to air tom'w night at 8. ???????????????????????? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:02:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... I'm glad you answered, Catherine, because I wanted to throwJerry something in the mix. How much of Joni's attitude do you think is Canadian? When I lived there it seemed there was an unwritten divide between the Catholics (read French, read Separists) and the English/Scot descendants (read Protestant)? Would certainly be interesting to discover some deep seeded prejudice there. Jerry Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > >> I couldn't disagree more, Catherine. Whether, or >> not, the Catholic Church >> still owns the Magdelene Laundries, or the prisons >> of the Inquisition, or >> the Crusades, the effects remain the same on past >> history and current >> political and social conditions. I'm with Joni on >> this one. >> > > I don't disagree with that. The effects are > long-lasting, of course, and trust humankind to twist > a philosophy of "Love one another" into the dogmatic, > backward-facing, head-in-the-sand, sanctimonious, > male-dominated, homophobic bureaucracy it is today. > Like many here, I'm a recovering catholic (with no > disrespect to those who still get something out of it, > even if I can't understand it.) And not that I want > Joni to necessarily spell everything out, but I guess > she could have chosen better words. On the other hand, > as I think about it, maybe it is the use of that > particular word - "prisons" - that makes some of us > stop and think about it for a long time, so, in fact, > it may be a very good choice of word. I'm still > thinking about that. > > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:23:51 EDT From: ROSCOE1TC@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #332 with whom would you like to see joni collaborate? not that she needs a collaborator, but i've always thought that it would be interesting to see/hear what brian eno would add to the sound. terry ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:29:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... Hard to say, Jerry, but some of that definitely is, or was there. Whether Joni is prejudiced that way is hard to say. I like to think of her as more open-minded than that, but we're all influenced by the past more than we care to admit sometimes. When you live in Toronto these days, you don't necessarily see that, because Toronto is so multi-cultural. And maybe it also depends on the neighbourhood you live in or the people you socialize with. I do remember as a child, living in small-town Ontario, where there was quite a divide between the Protestants and the Catholics. The town where I lived had a large Irish/Scottish population and was probably fairly equally divided among Catholics and Protestants. Every so often, something would come out that would demonstrate the intolerance - for example, reactions to such things as St Patrick's Day or Orangeman's Day (or whatever it's called.) And I remember only ten or a few more years ago, getting letters from people at work who didn't want the hospitals in that particular town where I used to work to amalgamate because it was the Catholic hospital that looked like it was going to take the lead and people were writing in that were afraid that nuns were going to shove crucifixes down their throats and so on. So, the fears and prejudices were still there even recently. As well, there was a fair French-Canadian population in that town and there were English public (mostly Protestant) schools, English Catholic and French Catholic schools and kids stuck with their own kind for the most part and were either afraid of or looking for a fight with the kids from the other schools. And the history of Canada does have that English/French, Protestant/Catholic divide as well. Going back well over 100 years ago, in Quebec (Lower Canada), they were mostly French-speaking and Catholic. In Ontario (Upper Canada), they were mostly English-speaking and Protestant. The Irish were there as well, and English-speaking Catholics, but were looked down upon and treated as outcasts in Ontario, although they did better in Quebec. The money in both places was pretty much controlled by the English Protestants. The Catholic Church, at least in Quebec, became powerful by collaborating with the government and kept its own people and, in turn, got concessions from the English government. The government of the time allowed two school systems in each province, where the public system in Quebec was mostly French and Catholic, but separate schools (Protestant and mostly English) were allowed. In Ontario, it was the other way around - the public system was English Protestant and the separate system was Catholic (both English and French.) I'm not a historian and I'm oversimplifying but yes, there was that divide. I'm not sure if a similar thing exists in the US or in other countries. It continues today and there's a fair bit of animosity between English and French. The Protestant vs Catholic thing is less evident, at least in larger cities. Maybe it's more noticeable in small towns and rural areas. Many Anglos still fear having "French rammed down their throats." (There seems to be a theme of Canadians being afraid someone is going to "ram something down their throat.") I don't know how it was in Saskatchewan, of course, where Joni grew up. We do know that it was nuns (Catholic, I presume, because a lot of our hospitals were founded by either the St Joseph Sisters or the Grey Sisters, hence the popularity of hospitals named either "St Joseph's" or "Hotel-Dieu" and so on, and there aren't a lot of Anglican sisters around that I'm aware of) who looked after Joni when she was in hospital with polio, and she seems quite open-minded about religious beliefs, but intolerant of dogma of any kind. - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > I'm glad you answered, Catherine, because I wanted > to throwJerry something > in the mix. How much of Joni's attitude do you think > is Canadian? When I > lived there it seemed there was an unwritten divide > between the Catholics > (read French, read Separists) and the English/Scot > descendants (read > Protestant)? Would certainly be interesting to > discover some deep seeded > prejudice there. > > Jerry > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:28:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: the Winnipeg Free Press Shines a little light on Joni Saturday, October 20, 2007 Winnipeg Free Press Joni Mitchell Shine (Hear Music) This tasty new disc from the sweet songstress of Saskatchewan, hailed as her return from retirement, occupies a comfortable middle ground between her early '70's pop period and her later jazz-inflected albums. Mitchell, it goes without saying, has proved herself to be a singular artist, so anything she records is worth a close listen. Instrumentally, you hear echoes of everything from Blue and Ladies of the Canyon to Hejira and Night Ride Home, especially in her use of unorthodox guitar tunings, sweet saxophone and other synthesized woodwinds. Lyrically, her themes are unabashedly eco-friendly. Her mellow new version of Big Yellow Taxi, with its parking lots and tree museums, does have an "I told you so" air about it. What makes Mitchell's music so compelling is her overall sound, reflective, elegant and regal, on everything from the haunting sax line in Hana to the beautiful melody of This Place. The album breaks no significant new ground, but it's a welcome addition to the great lady's ongoing canon. Morley Walker - --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:34:07 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: Worst Shine review! Brace yourselves for what has to be the meanest review of Shine yet (in fact of any JM album in a long time?). 'The Dissing of Summer Lawns - is Joni Mitchell ever going to cheer up' In the British magazine 'Word', the same that had featured an interview with Joni months ago. What's infuriating isnt that the writer didn't like the album, but that even though there was no lack of space (this is spread over TWO pages) he gives readers so little information about the actual music, as if he'd only given it one listen. It's all mostly a rant about her self-righteousness and arrogance as a member of the '70s rock aristocracy. No mention of track 1, no mention of Iguana, a bizarre gripe about hidden tracks: 'If' coming in after 2 minutes of silence??? Not on my CD. (Is there a special edition?) Sorry guys, I'm furious - why can't these assholes do their job? M _________________________________________________________________ Celeb spotting  Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes https://www.celebmashup.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:01:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell for the little ones - That Baby DVD & CD Yes indeed Laura - and for once I'm getting a coupon scoop on YOU! The guy who recorded the songs is offering a special deal for JMDL'ers - here's what he told me: Bob, heading back to Greenville NP: KT Tunstall, "White Bird" est86mlm@ameritech.net wrote: OyBaby LLC releases That Baby DVD and That Baby CD for children 0-5, featuring acoustic cover versions of songs made popular by Fleetwood Mac, Neil Diamond, The Pretenders, Joni Mitchell, and others. http://www.prweb.com/releases/baby/dvd/prweb561970.htm http://www.thatbabydvd.com/ "That Baby DVD features hip acoustic cover versions of songs made popular by artists such as Fleetwood Mac, Neil Diamond, The Pretenders, Joni Mitchell, and 10,000 Maniacs" Bob, A new cover maybe?? Laura Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:04:25 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Worst Shine review! It's obvious that many of these "critics" are lazy, and probably rushing to meet a deadline. I just read a review that claimed that Joni criticizes "bridezillas" on this album (maybe the girl in the dream dress? I don't know). The same reviewer says that Joni "takes aim" at Pearson and complains about bears!! At 11:34 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: > What's infuriating isnt that >the writer didn't like the album, but that even though there was no lack of >space (this is spread over TWO pages) he gives readers so little information >about the actual music, as if he'd only given it one listen. > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:10:20 -0500 From: mia _ Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite../now assholes passing on the right Monika, your last sentence made me laugh because I've often wondered why people do that, too. I mean what's the point? Last week during nearly bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic, some guy passed me on the right using the exit only lane. And about a year ago (same rush hour), I was in the left lane and some guy passed me using the emergency lane on the left only to gain one car length in front of me for the next five miles. This kinda stuff never used to happen in my hometown before. Mia From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite../now assholes passing on the right I wouldn't take that lyric too seriously. Afterall, she does say "shine on another asshole" rather than "to hell with that asshole passing on the right." She's got some sympathy even for the asshole! Even without that, I wouldn't take it to heart. If you think about it, you can understand. Even though I drive fast (and pass people up) I still have people pass me up. What really irritates me is when I am already driving 10-15 MPH over the speed limit and someone STILL passes me. It's just irritating and I'd imagine that's all Joni means by that. It's pure aggravation. You know you get a little worked up too at times when someone passes you. I especially hate it when the road is two lanes (which soon merges into one) and the person to the right of you speeds up like hell just to get in front of you before the lanes merge. These people think just because they pass you, it'll get them home earlier by what? A few seconds? A minute maybe? What's the rush? A minute or an x amount of seconds isn't going to do shit. Even more irritating is when someone does this to you and then HE/SHE proceeds to drive abnormally slow.... -Monika "We all come and go unknown..." Eric Taylor wrote: Craig responded: _________________________________________________________________ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailne ws ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:39:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Worst Shine review! Where can I read the article? You know, it isn't important what critics make of an album. An album's success (in my opinion) isn't determined by critics or sales but by the fans and the artist him/herself. -Mon Michel BYRNE wrote: Brace yourselves for what has to be the meanest review of Shine yet (in fact of any JM album in a long time?). 'The Dissing of Summer Lawns - is Joni Mitchell ever going to cheer up' In the British magazine 'Word', the same that had featured an interview with Joni months ago. What's infuriating isnt that the writer didn't like the album, but that even though there was no lack of space (this is spread over TWO pages) he gives readers so little information about the actual music, as if he'd only given it one listen. It's all mostly a rant about her self-righteousness and arrogance as a member of the '70s rock aristocracy. No mention of track 1, no mention of Iguana, a bizarre gripe about hidden tracks: 'If' coming in after 2 minutes of silence??? Not on my CD. (Is there a special edition?) Sorry guys, I'm furious - why can't these assholes do their job? M _________________________________________________________________ Celeb spotting  Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes https://www.celebmashup.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:46:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: NJC WIN! Just sending some good vibes to the Cleveland Indians! I hope they win tonight against the Red Sox and make it to the World Series! I'm sending some luck their way because after the outcome of the last game (they got creamed!) they're going to need it! Indians, play like you did the first two games of the series! We need Cleveland to be looked upon favorably in some way....we can't forever be referred to as, "the mistake on the lake." -Monika, who is not a sports fan but does enjoy attending an Indians game every once in a while and can't but help get into the excitement of it all... "We all come and go unknown..." Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:53:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: now assholes passing on the right (njc) I mean I can't blame everyone else on the road. I pass people as well but I don't do anything that is absolutely insane or dangerous. If the road is two lanes and the car in front of me is doing 15 MPH (in a 35 MPH zone, this really happened!), I'll go around. I certainly don't tailgate though. That really irritates me. Give me space man. -M gene wrote: like joni said, "assholes"------took the words right out of my mouth. gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Johnson" To: "Monika Bogdanowicz" Cc: "Joni people!" Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:03 AM Subject: Re: now assholes passing on the right (njc) > On Oct 20, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > >> I wouldn't take that lyric too seriously. Afterall, she does say >> "shine on another asshole" rather than "to hell with that asshole >> passing on the right." She's got some sympathy even for the >> asshole! Even without that, I wouldn't take it to heart. If you >> think about it, you can understand. >> Even though I drive fast (and pass people up) I still have >> people pass me up. What really irritates me is when I am already >> driving 10-15 MPH over the speed limit and someone STILL passes >> me. It's just irritating and I'd imagine that's all Joni means by >> that. It's pure aggravation. You know you get a little worked up >> too at times when someone passes you. I especially hate it when >> the road is two lanes (which soon merges into one) and the person >> to the right of you speeds up like hell just to get in front of you >> before the lanes merge. These people think just because they pass >> you, it'll get them home earlier by what? A few seconds? A minute >> maybe? What's the rush? A minute or an x amount of seconds isn't >> going to do shit. Even more irritating is when someone does this >> to you and then HE/SHE proceeds to drive abnormally slow.... >> > > I think some people are obsessed with being in a hurry and don't know > how to sit still. Several times now in Atlanta, I've been waiting to > make a left turn on a busy road, waiting till there's a break in the > traffic, knowing I can't necessarily see the oncoming traffic if > there are cars waiting to turn the opposite way, and people behind me > are in such a hurry, I've seen them cross over the double yellow > line, pull around me on my left in the wrong lane, and make a left > turn in front of me, while I'm still waiting....which is illegal and > dangerous. And then just the other day, I was driving to school in > the morning, the traffic was really backed up - we weren't going > anywhere- and I saw someone up ahead, waiting for someone to let them > in. I saw there was only one car coming the opposite way in the > other lane so I stopped to give them plenty of space to enter into > the lane. The person behind me, roared on the gas and pulled around > me....which is completely idiotic seeing as everything is backed up > anyway. > > I think they just don't know what to do if they have to sit still for > any length of time more than 5 seconds. In a big hurry to go > nowhere. Truly absurd. > > Victor > > !DSPAM:144,471b41a1288961163928799! Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:50:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Worst Shine review!...and... I forgot to add that it isn't necessarily a bad critique that pisses me off about certain reviews as much as it is about the quality of the review. You can diss something and have it still be well written. Not everyone is going to like the same thing. Fine. But if you don't enjoy something (or even if you do) and you're going to write about it, you better do a damn good job in explaining why. Actually focus on the album (or book or whatever review it is) at hand! That irritates me when I read poorly written reviews... -Monika "We all come and go unknown..." Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: Where can I read the article? You know, it isn't important what critics make of an album. An album's success (in my opinion) isn't determined by critics or sales but by the fans and the artist him/herself. - -Mon Michel BYRNE wrote: Brace yourselves for what has to be the meanest review of Shine yet (in fact of any JM album in a long time?). 'The Dissing of Summer Lawns - is Joni Mitchell ever going to cheer up' In the British magazine 'Word', the same that had featured an interview with Joni months ago. What's infuriating isnt that the writer didn't like the album, but that even though there was no lack of space (this is spread over TWO pages) he gives readers so little information about the actual music, as if he'd only given it one listen. It's all mostly a rant about her self-righteousness and arrogance as a member of the '70s rock aristocracy. No mention of track 1, no mention of Iguana, a bizarre gripe about hidden tracks: 'If' coming in after 2 minutes of silence??? Not on my CD. (Is there a special edition?) Sorry guys, I'm furious - why can't these assholes do their job? M _________________________________________________________________ Celeb spotting  Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes https://www.celebmashup.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:47:05 -0700 From: "gene" Subject: Re: now assholes passing on the right (njc) like joni said, "assholes"------took the words right out of my mouth. gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Johnson" To: "Monika Bogdanowicz" Cc: "Joni people!" Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:03 AM Subject: Re: now assholes passing on the right (njc) > On Oct 20, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > >> I wouldn't take that lyric too seriously. Afterall, she does say >> "shine on another asshole" rather than "to hell with that asshole >> passing on the right." She's got some sympathy even for the >> asshole! Even without that, I wouldn't take it to heart. If you >> think about it, you can understand. >> Even though I drive fast (and pass people up) I still have >> people pass me up. What really irritates me is when I am already >> driving 10-15 MPH over the speed limit and someone STILL passes >> me. It's just irritating and I'd imagine that's all Joni means by >> that. It's pure aggravation. You know you get a little worked up >> too at times when someone passes you. I especially hate it when >> the road is two lanes (which soon merges into one) and the person >> to the right of you speeds up like hell just to get in front of you >> before the lanes merge. These people think just because they pass >> you, it'll get them home earlier by what? A few seconds? A minute >> maybe? What's the rush? A minute or an x amount of seconds isn't >> going to do shit. Even more irritating is when someone does this >> to you and then HE/SHE proceeds to drive abnormally slow.... >> > > I think some people are obsessed with being in a hurry and don't know > how to sit still. Several times now in Atlanta, I've been waiting to > make a left turn on a busy road, waiting till there's a break in the > traffic, knowing I can't necessarily see the oncoming traffic if > there are cars waiting to turn the opposite way, and people behind me > are in such a hurry, I've seen them cross over the double yellow > line, pull around me on my left in the wrong lane, and make a left > turn in front of me, while I'm still waiting....which is illegal and > dangerous. And then just the other day, I was driving to school in > the morning, the traffic was really backed up - we weren't going > anywhere- and I saw someone up ahead, waiting for someone to let them > in. I saw there was only one car coming the opposite way in the > other lane so I stopped to give them plenty of space to enter into > the lane. The person behind me, roared on the gas and pulled around > me....which is completely idiotic seeing as everything is backed up > anyway. > > I think they just don't know what to do if they have to sit still for > any length of time more than 5 seconds. In a big hurry to go > nowhere. Truly absurd. > > Victor > > !DSPAM:144,471b41a1288961163928799! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:04:05 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... "Victor Johnson" wrote: > I was thinking that maybe ...... she was talking about a figurative > prison, the mental, spiritual place .... I think she might be talking about it like this, but I agree with Catherine that there are certainly worse institutions - e.g., the summer Jesus camps that are brainwashing innocent children - which Joni knows about (she mentioned these specifically in a recent interview). In a way, the Catholic church (like any other fundamentalist belief system) is very much like a mental prison - people are not encouraged to think outside the box, and those who do (I'm thinking of progressive priests) are threatened with excommunication. I think it is harder for the Catholic church to control the individual church members, however, and I think there are a lot of practicing Catholics who, e.g., practice forbidden birth control, or who, e.g., believe in Buddhist teachings (according to what I grew up with, it was forbidden even to set foot in another church, and we didn't learn about any details of other religions), or who accept that other faiths might also be valid ways to get to heaven (if there is such a place!). In Austria, about 95% of the people are Catholic, although not all of them go to church. However, everyone who was born Catholic is somehow registered with the Catholic church here and has to pay some percentage of their income to the church as a tax, and it's very hard to get out of paying this tax once you get on the Church's register. This is a kind of financial prison. Marian NPIMH: If ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:18:52 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: John Mayer and James Blunt?? Are You Kidding? Mayer has major talent imo- he has an old weathered bluesman living inside him when he plays & sings the blues ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:17:20 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Bad Dreams are Good? That sound is a patch on a Yamaha synth called a Motif 8 ES. I have one of them and I always liked it. The keyboard has a programmable arpeggiator in it to give it that strum sound. best Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Oct 21, 2007, at 5:16 AM, Marian Russell wrote: Hi everybody. Finally got my copy of Shine last Monday. I really love If, BYT, Bad Dreams, and Night Of The Iguana. It's really such a thrill that Joni is still making music. Her voice sounds really fantastic. I love the accordion in BYT and the mandolin on Night of the Iguana. Does anyone think maybe she's using dulcimer in BYT? I can't tell. Has the meaning of "bad dreams are good in the great plan" already been discussed? I just wonder what she means by that! Marian NP: BYT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:30:50 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: Bad Dreams are Good? Wow. Sounds like a real stringed instrument of some sort. Amazing! ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Paz To: Marian Russell Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:17 PM Subject: Re: Bad Dreams are Good? That sound is a patch on a Yamaha synth called a Motif 8 ES. I have one of them and I always liked it. The keyboard has a programmable arpeggiator in it to give it that strum sound. best Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Oct 21, 2007, at 5:16 AM, Marian Russell wrote: Hi everybody. Finally got my copy of Shine last Monday. I really love If, BYT, Bad Dreams, and Night Of The Iguana. It's really such a thrill that Joni is still making music. Her voice sounds really fantastic. I love the accordion in BYT and the mandolin on Night of the Iguana. Does anyone think maybe she's using dulcimer in BYT? I can't tell. Has the meaning of "bad dreams are good in the great plan" already been discussed? I just wonder what she means by that! Marian NP: BYT ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #422 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------