From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2007 #419 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Website: http://jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, October 19 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 419 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #329 [StDoherty@aol.com] Idolatry & Banality ["William Elliott" ] Re: Shine favorite/least favorite.. [Bob Muller ] Re: FW: Message from website [Bob Muller ] Re: Shine favorite/least favorite.. ["Happy The Man" ] Re: re : first lady NJC ["Jerry Notaro" ] dan frechette is one to watch for NJC [Mags ] Movie with Joni song ["Miguel Arrondo" ] "The Circle Game" ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: njc, Graham Nash comes for conversation ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: FYI [Jerry Notaro ] Why is "Shine", "Shine"? [c Karma ] (sjc) Deborah Kerr [c Karma ] Re: (sjc) Deborah Kerr [Jerry Notaro ] =?iso-8859-7?B?UGFzc3BvcnQgc21pbGUuIChwbHVzIEEgQ29sbGFib3JhdGlv biBKb25p?= =?iso-8859-7?B?IFdvbqJ0IEV2ZXIgTWFrZSk=?= [] njc, Bonnie Raitt -- there's something happening here [Patti Parlette ] Ghost of my old ideals [merk54@aol.com] RE: Passport smile. (plus A Collaboration Joni Won?t Ever Make) ["hell" <] Re: Passport smile. (plus A Collaboration Joni Wonąt Ever Make) [Catherin] RE: Why is "Shine", "Shine"? [Catherine McKay ] RE: Ghost of my old ideals ["WATTS, LESLI" ] RE : Re: (njc) Deborah Kerr [Joseph Palis ] Teresa Brewer, RIP (NJC) [Joseph Palis ] RE: Ghost of my old ideals [c Karma ] Re: Ghost of my old ideals [Deb Messling ] Re: Teresa Brewer, RIP (NJC) [Gary Z ] Re: RE : Re: Deborah Kerr now jc again [Catherine McKay ] Re: Shine favorite/least favorite.. [Monika Bogdanowicz ] RE: Why is "Shine", "Shine"? [Monika Bogdanowicz ] RE: Why is "Shine", "Shine"? [Monika Bogdanowicz ] RE : Re: Teresa Brewer, RIP (NJC) [Joseph Palis ] Re: Critiques of critiques and keeping it real [Bobsart48@aol.com] Lyrics vs music ["Eric Taylor" ] Does anyone subscribe to Sirius? ["Les Irvin" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 05:16:04 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #329 In a message dated 10/18/2007 3:41:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org writes: Subject: Re: Re: Car On A Hill (long) .... good intros <<>>> The choral loop on Car on a Hill is the best. Have a few beers - or a case of you - and see how it surprises. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 02:51:06 -0700 From: "William Elliott" Subject: Idolatry & Banality The word that keeps coming to mind to describe "Shine" for me is... Banal. Warmly, Cassy NP: Joni - The Wolf that lives in Lindsey << Yeash! There was nothing "warm" about this brutal review. It is even colder than the RS BS which said Joni is "a bad example of environmentalism." I would not have commented upon this "banal" post unless I noticed you were listening to TWTLIL (one of my all time fav Joni tunes). It sometimes drives me crazy how people are so attached to the past that they are unable to grasp new masterpieces, which are increasingly rare these days. I just don't understand how or why a Joni fan could label SHINE "banal." My guess is that you live in California and don't like a chain-smoking Canadian reminding us of how screwed up America has become. ET - --Yes, JM is a genius; a creative titan. But even a genius can create flawed work and, in my opinion, SHINE fits this bill, just as TTT and TRAVELOGUE did before it. Her YouTube/Shine comment on Nero composing insipid love songs on a lyre while yes-men surround him saying, "killer song, dude, killer song," comes to mind. Healthy admiration of JM is fine but it should not blind one's critical eye. And if you view SHINE as a modern masterpiece, more power to you; dissenting opinions should still be tolerated and discussed rather than summarily dissmissed. Click to shop and compare great deals on trucks.

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Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator – Much More! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 03:43:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite.. My favorite: "Strong And Wrong" - I'm simply nutty about the piano part, the arythmical nature of it and the message. Don't really have a least favorite, I will confess that I think the "people talking....on their cellphones" line is Shine is pretty awkward and superfluous. Just listened to it yesterday, in fact. Bob NP: Crowded House, "Private Universe" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 03:52:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: FW: Message from website David, I believe the film you're searching for is this one: http://jonimitchell.com/fiction/fdetail.cfm?id=259 Bob NP: God Is An Astronaut, "Remembrance Day" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:39:17 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite.. My favorite: One Week Last Summer Least Favorite: Hmmmm...let me listen to it another 100x and I'll still wrestle. But it hurts when she calls me an asshole, you try getting out of my neighborhood at 6:PM at night and the traffic is backed up for a 1/2 mile and the only 80 year old grandmother in the neighborhood is stuck at the light trying to see over the stearing wheel of her Nissan Altima. Peace, Craig NP: Glen Hansard Marketa Irglova - This Low ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:22:49 -0500 (CDT) From: rian afriadi Subject: re : first lady NJC reading first-lady-things on this disscussion really make me smile, we, indonesian, once had a woman president : megawati soekarnopoetri. we don't call her first lady. we just simply called her madam presiden (ibu presiden) (ee-boo president). and her husband, we just simply called him mr. xyzxyz (bapak xyzxyz) (hey! i forgot his name! what a shame!) maybe you can call the husband of the next president as simply as : Mr. Clinton. NP : the dry cleaner from des moines (studio version) i've been playing this song 107 times repeatedly past these 24 hours. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:26:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: re : first lady NJC rian afriadi wrote: > maybe you can call the > husband of the next president as simply as : Mr. Clinton. Funny thing is, by protocal, all former Presidents are to be referred to as Mr. President. So they would be Madame President and President Clinton spoken to. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:33:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: dan frechette is one to watch for NJC http://www.danfrechette.com/shows.php one of our local Winnipeg, Manitoba musicians, Dan Frechette, is going on tour soon, and has a few gigs on the left coast of the US of eh. He is a fine musician, has a repetoire of over 1,000 songs, no kiddin! And somehow, remembers most of them ;-) Dan's a sweetie and an all round nice guy. Wonderful musicianship, always willing to learn and to share what he knows, too. Go see for yourself. Mags, who also loves Shine, the song, as well as the intro piece. - --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:30:28 -0300 From: "Miguel Arrondo" Subject: Movie with Joni song Hello, David, the film you asked info about is "Married to it" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107523/) I've seen it on TV once or twice, but never caught it from the start. It ends with the scene of the children playing the school act with Circle Game. Saludos, Miguel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:17:55 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "The Circle Game" David, It sounds like the movie was forgettable but the song stuck with you. Some of the back story of "The Circle Game" is here: http://jonimitchell.com/research/glossary.cfm If you don't already have it, "The Circle Game" appears on 5 CDs, "Ladies of the Canyon", "Miles of Aisles" (live), "hits", "Travelogue" (with orchestra), and "Dreamland". The lyrics are here: http://jonimitchell.com/musician/song.cfm?id=TheCircleGame Jim L. dwgood@sbcglobal.net said in part, >I learned that the song "The Circle Game" is hers. < big edit> I have heard that song in a movie, being sung by group of children in a school presentation. I only saw the final scene in the movie in which the children are doing their performance and the older characters seem to be reconciling their issues while in the audience. I do not know what the movie's title or plot is. All I know it I fell in love with the song the children were singing (the circle game) and now that I've heard it again by Miss Mitchell, it has made me want to find the movie.> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:22:17 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: njc, Graham Nash comes for conversation > Browne and Nash performed a haunting version of "Crow on the Cradle< Oh yeah. I heard them do this about 20 years ago at a benfit show! Simply chillingly stunningly pindropingly gorgeous. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:19:08 -0500 From: "David Guy Fetzer" Subject: FYI Joni People: Look what I just found in my inbox from The Theater Collective in Boston! Paved Paradise: The Songs of Joni Mitchell Cheers, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:37:07 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: FYI If you go don't hesitate to introduce yourself to John. He is always thrilled to meet Joni people, especially from the list. And give us a review! > Joni People: > > Look what I just found in my inbox from The Theater Collective in Boston! > > Paved Paradise: The Songs of Joni Mitchell > > Cheers, > > Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:44:07 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: Why is "Shine", "Shine"? The artist's job is to reflect back our existence. In finding "Shine" as stimulating as Joni's most challenging work, yet more accessible than her recent iconoclasm would have predicted I began to wonder why "Shine?" The lyric of the title track seems as often cynically ironic as hopeful. The only use I could think of that word in a similar context of hope and hopelessness is, once again from Chief Seattle's speech: "But in your perishing, you will shine brightly, fired by the strength of the God who brought you to this land for some special purpose gave you dominion over the red man. That destiny is a mystery to us, for we do not understand when the buffalo are slaughtered, the wild horses are tamed, the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills blotted out by talking wires. Where is the thicket? Gone. Where is the eagle? Gone." "Where are the songbirds? Gone." It seems unfair to try to reduce this work to a single word of description. It is too vastly complicated. CC "In every culture in decline the watchful ones among the slaves know that all is genuine will be scorned and conned and cast away." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:40:15 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: (sjc) Deborah Kerr Deborah Kerr has passed away in England. The sjc is her appearance in "Night Of The Iguana" but perhaps this is not the only movie referenced by a song title in which Ms. Kerr appeared. One might infer that 1969's "The Arrangement" was one as well, particularly after noting the tagline used to promote the movie: The girl knew about the wife. The wife (Kerr) knew about the girl. It was all part of the arrangement. Of course this just makes me want to ask Joni my number one question for her: "What was the movie that prompted 'last night the ghost of my old ideals re-ran on Channel 5' in DJRD?" CC "You've seen too many movies Joni. Snap out of it." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:02:50 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: (sjc) Deborah Kerr Sad. She was a first class woman, as well as actress. A dying breed. Olivia de Haviland is still alive, as is Lauren Bacall. Members of the "Greatest Generation." Jerry > Deborah Kerr has passed away in England. The sjc is her appearance in "Night > Of The Iguana" but perhaps this is not the only movie referenced by a song > title in which Ms. Kerr appeared. One might infer that 1969's "The > Arrangement" was one as well, particularly after noting the tagline used to > promote the movie: The girl knew about the wife. The wife (Kerr) knew about > the girl. It was all part of the arrangement. > > Of course this just makes me want to ask Joni my number one question for her: > "What was the movie that prompted 'last night the ghost of my old ideals > re-ran on Channel 5' in DJRD?" > > > CC > > "You've seen too many movies Joni. Snap out of it." -- JM > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by > today. > http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLta > gline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:33:46 -0700 (PDT) From: rian afriadi Subject: =?iso-8859-7?B?UGFzc3BvcnQgc21pbGUuIChwbHVzIEEgQ29sbGFib3JhdGlv biBKb25p?= =?iso-8859-7?B?IFdvbqJ0IEV2ZXIgTWFrZSk=?= Joni sang : All the people at this party Theyve got a lot of style Theyve got stamps of many countries Theyve got passport smiles Passport smiles. Can Canadian or American put on a smile on their photo for something as serious as a passport? We (Indonesian) cant. We have to pose in a very frozen expression. Thats why we all look so ugly in our passport... BTW, ive just uploaded my photo @ my JMDL. The photo is inspired by Travelogue. No passport smiles. No frozen faces. NP : Carole King  So Far Away (James Taylor has worked with Carole King. Joni has worked with James. But why hasnt Joni worked with Carole? Oh yah, do you think its possible for Joni to work with artists from my generation 80s born artist? Ah. No. I cant imagine Joni in studio with Justin. Or Britney. Or Paris (yuck!). Nononononononono! But John Mayer sounds promising...) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:57:38 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: njc, Bonnie Raitt -- there's something happening here Dear Joniamigos: My hotmail account is totally messed up, so I send up my prayer that this comes through in a readable format. And I'm sending you out This signal here I hope you can pick it up Loud and clear Here is a video and a petition from Act For Change. Some of our favorite people are on it: Bonnie, Graham/Willy, Ben Harper, Jackson, and Keb' Mo. (Alas, no Joni though.) http://actforchange.workingassets.com/campaign/stop_nuke_bailout/i3e6k5n40dbin8j? Bonnie's a strong woman and she's hip to their tricks when it's all dirty for dirty down the line. Peace, Patti P. P.S. I've *got* to change email accounts. Is anyone else having trouble with hotmail? I can't even access it from my Mac at home, and everything I send out on my hillbilly PC is all schmushed together. Sorry! _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:04:06 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: RE: Why is "Shine", "Shine"? CC wrote: > The artist's job is to reflect back our existence. In finding > "Shine" as stimulating as Joni's most challenging work, yet more > accessible than her recent iconoclasm would have predicted I > began to wonder why "Shine?" The lyric of the title track seems > as often cynically ironic as hopeful. I would refer most of the album (other than those songs inspired by movies) back to a Joni quote: " I sing my sorrow, and I paint my joy." The title track (IMO) seems to exemplify this. Joni's sorrow in the past (evident in her lyrics) has mostly been very personal observations on love and loss, not just romantic love, but in the loss of her daughter. She's also said that she started writing lyrics when she "lost" Kilauren, but stopped when she found her again. The muse has returned, but this time her sadness is at the state of the world. It's still personal to Joni, IMO related to the world that her grandchildren will inherit - she dedicated the album to them - and what greed and capitalism have done to the environment and people's attitudes and behaviour. It's certainly not my favourite album. It doesn't affect me in the way previous works have done (Hejira, Blue, HOSL, for example) and I do find many of the lyrics a little trite and repetitive (she seems to have a real hatred of cellphones)! But I love most of the music, and love hearing Joni playing piano again. Favourite tracks? One Week Last Summer and Shine, and I love her interpretation of Kipling's "If". I don't really have a least favourite, and I do like the reworking of BYT. Just my $0.02 worth.... Hell - on a cold, but sunny morning in Waipipi, Waiuku, NZ NP: Otis - our Black Orpington rooster, crowing outside the window! P.S. I'm not an asshole (at least, I don't think I am) but I pass on the right all the time! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:42:04 -0400 From: merk54@aol.com Subject: Ghost of my old ideals CC wrote: Of course this just makes me want to ask Joni my number one question for her: "What was the movie that prompted 'last night the ghost of my old ideals re-ran on Channel 5' in DJRD?" Interesting question.? I never even considered that this could have been prompted by a movie.? I always envisioned some sitcom such as Leave It To Beaver, or Father Knows Best, or the Donna Reed Show.? I always connected this lyric to Song for Sharon and the childhood ideal of catching a Golden Reggie, getting married and living happily every after. A movie certainly opens up the possibilies as to what her old ideals could have been. By the way, the lyric on JoniMitchell.com states "ghost of my old ideas". Jack ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:19:28 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: RE: Passport smile. (plus A Collaboration Joni Won?t Ever Make) Rian wrote: > NP : Carole King  So Far Away > (James Taylor has > worked with Carole King. Joni has worked with James. But why hasnt Joni > worked with Carole? Have a look at the credits for Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow on Carole's Tapestry album - you'll see the "Mitchell/Taylor Boy-and-Girl Choir". That's our Joni with James, singing back-up vocals for Carole. The three artists were all recording albums at the same time, in the same street from memory (Joni - Blue, Carole - Tapestry, James - Mud Slide Slim and the Blue Horizon), and so collaboration was easy at the time. Hell in NZ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:10:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Passport smile. (plus A Collaboration Joni Wonąt Ever Make) - --- rian afriadi wrote: > Joni sang : > > All the people at this party > Theyve got a lot of style > Theyve > got stamps of many countries > Theyve got passport smiles > > > Passport smiles. > Can Canadian or American put on a smile on their > photo for something as > serious as a passport? We (Indonesian) cant. We > have to pose in a very frozen > expression. Thats why we all look so ugly in our > passport... > In Canada, the rules change on a regular basis. It used to be that they would ask you to smile for a passport photograph. The smiles all looked fake anyway (more of a grimace, really, or a tooth-baring.) The last time I got my passport, they said you were not to smile. And, if you wear glasses, the picture must be taken in such a way that there is no glare from the glasses, so they can see your eyes. After trying a bunch of times to get it right, I just took off my glasses. And didn't smile. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:12:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Why is "Shine", "Shine"? - --- hell wrote: > P.S. I'm not an asshole (at least, I don't think I > am) but I pass on the > right all the time! Of course I know you're not, but you just might be an asshole if you passed on the left. I suppose people in the countries that drive on the "wrong" side of the road might be wondering what the deal is with Joni and her directionist writing. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:19:25 -0700 From: "WATTS, LESLI" Subject: RE: Ghost of my old ideals always thought this had to be rebel without a cause, that video clip: you can't be idealistic all your life. made me cry at the time..as power ideals and bueaty were fading in my callused hand:) lesli ________________________________ From: owner-joni@smoe.org on behalf of merk54@aol.com Sent: Thu 10/18/2007 11:42 AM To: ckarma@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Ghost of my old ideals CC wrote: Of course this just makes me want to ask Joni my number one question for her: "What was the movie that prompted 'last night the ghost of my old ideals re-ran on Channel 5' in DJRD?" Interesting question.? I never even considered that this could have been prompted by a movie.? I always envisioned some sitcom such as Leave It To Beaver, or Father Knows Best, or the Donna Reed Show.? I always connected this lyric to Song for Sharon and the childhood ideal of catching a Golden Reggie, getting married and living happily every after. A movie certainly opens up the possibilies as to what her old ideals could have been. By the way, the lyric on JoniMitchell.com states "ghost of my old ideas". Jack ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:54:08 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: (njc) Deborah Kerr Sad indeed. Although she did not sing her songs in "The King and I" I thought she was appropriately cast as Anna. She showed a funny side in "Casino Royale" and was outstanding in Otto Preminger's "Bonjour Tristesse" and John Huston's "Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison". Joseph in ghost-town Chapel Hill np: Miles Davis Quintet - Salt Peanuts Jerry Notaro a icrit : Sad. She was a first class woman, as well as actress. A dying breed. Olivia de Haviland is still alive, as is Lauren Bacall. Members of the "Greatest Generation." Jerry > Deborah Kerr has passed away in England. The sjc is her appearance in "Night > Of The Iguana" but perhaps this is not the only movie referenced by a song > title in which Ms. Kerr appeared. One might infer that 1969's "The > Arrangement" was one as well, particularly after noting the tagline used to > promote the movie: The girl knew about the wife. The wife (Kerr) knew about > the girl. It was all part of the arrangement. > > Of course this just makes me want to ask Joni my number one question for her: > "What was the movie that prompted 'last night the ghost of my old ideals > re-ran on Channel 5' in DJRD?" > > > CC > > "You've seen too many movies Joni. Snap out of it." -- JM > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by > today. > http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLta > gline - --------------------------------- Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:56:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Teresa Brewer, RIP (NJC) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7050412.stm - --------------------------------- Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:10:50 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: RE: Ghost of my old ideals I think Joni was spending a lot of time in New York in the late 70s. Channel 5 was WNEW-TV then part of the small Metromedia group. They were starved for programming and ran an old movie from 8-10pm almost every weeknight. They often ran another at 11pm. The broadcasts were unfortunately riddled with commercials (local favorites like Fugazy Limousine, Crazy Eddie , JGE "What's the story, Jerry?", and a mom and pop driving school "You start to live when you learn to drive.") To allow for the plethora of cheap commercials they often sped up the film with early Lexicon technology. Musicals were rarely seen because of this. Before cable networks, we relied on these Metromedia nightly movies, Million Dollar Movie (Channel 9 WOR-TV, yes 3 call letters), and The 4:30 Movie (Channel 7 WABC-TV) to provide a truncated education in cinema. The 4:30 Movie was especially bold in their editing choices, needing to fit a whole feature film into 90 minutes of air time before the evening news. You'd be surprised how many of us didn't know that Rosebud is the sled. Now Channel 5 is a FOX station. I'd go back in a second. CC "Given in the night to dark dreams from the dark things she feels. She covers her eyes in the X-rated scenes running from the reels." -- JM ________________________________> To: ckarma@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org> Subject: Ghost of my old ideals> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:42:04 -0400> From: merk54@aol.com>> CC wrote:> Of course this just makes me want to ask Joni my number one question for her:> "What was the movie that prompted 'last night the ghost of my old ideals re-ran> on Channel 5' in DJRD?"> Interesting question. I never even considered that this could have been prompted by a movie. I always envisioned some sitcom such as Leave It To Beaver, or Father Knows Best, or the Donna Reed Show. I always connected this lyric to Song for Sharon and the childhood ideal of catching a Golden Reggie, getting married and living happily every after.> A movie certainly opens up the possibilies as to what her old ideals could have been.> By the way, the lyric on JoniMitchell.com states "ghost of my old ideas".> Jack> ________________________________> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Cafi. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:06:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Ghost of my old ideals I always assumed she was referring to Celebration at Big Sur, which I saw on a re-run channel in New York that would have been 5, 9 or 11) a couple of times. I thought she was looking at herself as an idealistic young thing and feeling sad about that. The line "howled so spooky for its eagle soul" made me think of Joni's singing in that movie. - ---- Original message ---- >Of course this just makes me want to ask Joni my number one question for her: >"What was the movie that prompted 'last night the ghost of my old ideals re-ran >on Channel 5' in DJRD?" Deb Messling http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:14:50 -0400 From: Gary Z Subject: Re: Teresa Brewer, RIP (NJC) Joseph, Thank you for posting this. I had no idea she was ill, and I LOVED her. She was the first singer I fell in love with when I was a young kid. I'm just shocked over this. She sent me an autographed photo a couple of years ago, that I treasure. It hangs alongside of an autographed photo of Betty Hutton that I have. So sad...the list just keeps getting longer...... By the way, for those who don't know, today is Laura Nyro's birthday. She would have turned 60 today. Play a song of hers today if you're so inclined.... Best regards, Gary Z. Detroit Joseph Palis wrote: >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7050412.stm > > >--------------------------------- > Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:00:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: RE : Re: Deborah Kerr now jc again - --- Joseph Palis wrote: > Sad indeed. Although she did not sing her songs in > "The King and I" I thought she was appropriately > cast as Anna. She showed a funny side in "Casino > Royale" and was outstanding in Otto Preminger's > "Bonjour Tristesse" and John Huston's "Heaven Knows, > Mr. Allison". > And of course she was in the film of "Night of the Iguana", which I borrowed from the library (blame Joni) and just watched. I had never seen it before and, if you haven't seen one of those older films for a long time, it's strange to see them. We used to watch that kind of stuff on TV when we were kids but watching them as an adult is a whole different thing. For one thing, everyone had such perfect enunciation - not a mumbler in the lot. I didn't find Deborah Kerr's character (Hannah) all that interesting, but I had forgotten what a pretty woman she was. I did enjoy Ava Gardner's and Greyson Hall's roles. Richard Burton wasn't such a great actor, and tended to rant like a bad Shakespearian actor, but he was mighty handsome back then. And, interesting thing, and I'm not sure if it was that way in the play but, at the beginning of the film, his character, the Reverend Larry Shannon is having his nervous breakdown during his Sunday sermon and goes on about how people believe in a punishing god and hellfire and so on and basically rejects all that - and so does Reverend Pearson in "Shine", so I think that's another place where Joni has tied a couple of ideas together from one song to the next, and hasn't just randomly inserted a song based on a movie (or a play or a story) in the middle for nothing. And it has already been pointed out that there are Hannahs (of various spellings) in both her song "Hana" (based on a movie that's based on a novel, which I'm now reading - I hasten to add that I'm not usually that much of a freak and a stalker type of fan, but thought it might be fun to check out Joni's sources this time) and in the movie "Night of the iguana" (upon which Joni based a song but without naming Hannah). So, even her musical interludes, bits of fantasies maybe in the midst of the true-life stuff, have something that ties them together. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:04:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Teresa Brewer, RIP (NJC) - --- Gary Z wrote: > Joseph, > > Thank you for posting this. I had no idea she was > ill, and I LOVED > her. She was the first singer I fell in love with > when I was a young > kid. I know I've mentioned before to Gary Z that I think my Dad had a bit of a crush on Teresa Brewer. He loved those cute little chicks with the big belter voices. > By the way, for those who don't know, today is Laura > Nyro's birthday. > She would have turned 60 today. Play a song of hers > today if you're so > inclined.... > Will do, Gary. Thanks for the reminder. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:09:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite.. Hey you're not the only "asshole passing on the right." I drive FAST and pass people all the time... -Monika Happy The Man wrote: My favorite: One Week Last Summer Least Favorite: Hmmmm...let me listen to it another 100x and I'll still wrestle. But it hurts when she calls me an asshole, you try getting out of my neighborhood at 6:PM at night and the traffic is backed up for a 1/2 mile and the only 80 year old grandmother in the neighborhood is stuck at the light trying to see over the stearing wheel of her Nissan Altima. Peace, Craig NP: Glen Hansard Marketa Irglova - This Low Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:13:33 -0700 (PDT) From: rian afriadi Subject: Re: Passport smile. (plus A Collaboration Joni Won?t Ever Make) WHAT? this is surely a surprise for me! I've been listening to Will You Love Me Tomorrow since i was just a kid and not realizing there's Joni on it! (but i didn't know joni at that time-- my first joni-encounter was just last year - -- but i should've known it last year!) about Joni on James's Mud Slide Slim,,, i've just known it 2 weeks ago. it was also a surprise for me. wow wow. NP. Joni. I Don't Know Where I Stand (i love her "dooo dooo doooooo.....") - ----- Original Message ---- From: hell To: rian afriadi ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:19:28 AM Subject: RE: Passport smile. (plus A Collaboration Joni Won?t Ever Make) Rian wrote: > NP : Carole King So Far Away > (James Taylor has > worked with Carole King. Joni has worked with James. But why hasnt Joni > worked with Carole? Have a look at the credits for Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow on Carole's Tapestry album - you'll see the "Mitchell/Taylor Boy-and-Girl Choir". That's our Joni with James, singing back-up vocals for Carole.. The three artists were all recording albums at the same time, in the same street from memory (Joni - Blue, Carole - Tapestry, James - Mud Slide Slim and the Blue Horizon), and so collaboration was easy at the time. Hell in NZ Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:32:08 -0400 (EDT) From: rian afriadi Subject: Re: Passport smile. njc hahaha... joni surely won't use "passport grimace" since it won't rhyme the first three lines. (hey. "rhyme and lines" rhymes) then what about a woman muslim's veil? (or hijab) or a sikh's turban? should they take off their veils/turbans? - ----- Original Message ---- From: Catherine McKay To: rian afriadi ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 2:10:21 AM Subject: Re: Passport smile. (plus A Collaboration Joni Won"t Ever Make) In Canada, the rules change on a regular basis. It used to be that they would ask you to smile for a passport photograph. The smiles all looked fake anyway (more of a grimace, really, or a tooth-baring.) The last time I got my passport, they said you were not to smile. And, if you wear glasses, the picture must be taken in such a way that there is no glare from the glasses, so they can see your eyes. After trying a bunch of times to get it right, I just took off my glasses. And didn't smile. Catherine - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:04:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: RE: Why is "Shine", "Shine"? (she seems to have a real hatred of cellphones) --------------------------------------------- I don't blame her! -Monika hell wrote: CC wrote: > The artist's job is to reflect back our existence. In finding > "Shine" as stimulating as Joni's most challenging work, yet more > accessible than her recent iconoclasm would have predicted I > began to wonder why "Shine?" The lyric of the title track seems > as often cynically ironic as hopeful. I would refer most of the album (other than those songs inspired by movies) back to a Joni quote: " I sing my sorrow, and I paint my joy." The title track (IMO) seems to exemplify this. Joni's sorrow in the past (evident in her lyrics) has mostly been very personal observations on love and loss, not just romantic love, but in the loss of her daughter. She's also said that she started writing lyrics when she "lost" Kilauren, but stopped when she found her again. The muse has returned, but this time her sadness is at the state of the world. It's still personal to Joni, IMO related to the world that her grandchildren will inherit - she dedicated the album to them - and what greed and capitalism have done to the environment and people's attitudes and behaviour. It's certainly not my favourite album. It doesn't affect me in the way previous works have done (Hejira, Blue, HOSL, for example) and I do find many of the lyrics a little trite and repetitive (she seems to have a real hatred of cellphones)! But I love most of the music, and love hearing Joni playing piano again. Favourite tracks? One Week Last Summer and Shine, and I love her interpretation of Kipling's "If". I don't really have a least favourite, and I do like the reworking of BYT. Just my $0.02 worth.... Hell - on a cold, but sunny morning in Waipipi, Waiuku, NZ NP: Otis - our Black Orpington rooster, crowing outside the window! P.S. I'm not an asshole (at least, I don't think I am) but I pass on the right all the time! Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:07:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: RE: Why is "Shine", "Shine"? Well maybe if Joni wasn't driving so slow, "assholes" wouldn't be passing her on the right all the time! Speed it up Joni! -Monika Catherine McKay wrote: --- hell wrote: > P.S. I'm not an asshole (at least, I don't think I > am) but I pass on the > right all the time! Of course I know you're not, but you just might be an asshole if you passed on the left. I suppose people in the countries that drive on the "wrong" side of the road might be wondering what the deal is with Joni and her directionist writing. Catherine Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:06:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: Teresa Brewer, RIP (NJC) Gary and Catherine, I always like to hear personal stories from people about their special bond with a particular artist (whether director, singer, thespian, writer, etc.) and I like your Teresa Brewer stories. I heard of her via Duke Ellington recordings and I like her voice -- with none of the vocal mannerisms rampant among singers of her generation. I thought, like early Rosemary Clooney, her voice has a clear, almost-pristine quality to it. And thanks for the heads-up for Laura Nyro. I will play a song of hers this Saturday as a tribute. Along with a song from Teresa Brewer and maybe a track by Issa -- the latter is performing that same night I go on the air (thanks for the info, Oddmund) so I will just vent my frustration of not seeing the former Jane Siberry by playing, maybe "Lena is a Table". Joseph North Carolina np: Bittersweet - Inside Catherine McKay a icrit : - --- Gary Z wrote: > Joseph, > > Thank you for posting this. I had no idea she was > ill, and I LOVED > her. She was the first singer I fell in love with > when I was a young > kid. I know I've mentioned before to Gary Z that I think my Dad had a bit of a crush on Teresa Brewer. He loved those cute little chicks with the big belter voices. > By the way, for those who don't know, today is Laura > Nyro's birthday. > She would have turned 60 today. Play a song of hers > today if you're so > inclined.... > Will do, Gary. Thanks for the reminder. Catherine - --------------------------------- Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 00:15:31 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Critiques of critiques and keeping it real In commenting on ET's response/critique of Cassy's critique (I think I have this right - my apologies if not), Victor commented: "This response reminds me of the people who are all up in arms just because Joni mentioned the Catholic church in "Shine". People have different opinions and viewpoints. Its really not that big of a deal." First of all, those who may have been up in arms about the Catholic church reference (I was -and am - not one of them) weren't up in arms because Joni "mentioned" the Catholic church - it was the negative and dubious content and its implications (and the apparent singling out of that specific religion - you know, the ones whose nuns helped nurse Joni back to health when she had polio at some personal risk to themselves) that got them up in arms. Now if Victor had said "just because of Joni's scathing commentary about the Catholic church in Shine", that would have been more accurate and far less disingenuous a comparison. I can understand why Joni's "mention" would be a big deal for some people. Similarly, for most on this list, our remarks are intended not simply to get our thoughts out, but to evoke further commentary (pro or con, analytical or emotional) about them and further discussion on the topic. If ET didn't warm up to Cassy's comments, I am fine to hear it - just as I am OK to hear about Victor's unhappiness with ET's response. The difference is the irony - Victor is complaining about another's response because that other person complained about another's response. (He also complained about others who complained about Joni's prayer for the sinful Catholic church). If this sounds like I'm complaining about Victor complaining about someone else complaining about someone else's critique, well... it's really not that big of a deal. :-) Bobsart ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 01:36:10 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Lyrics vs music I'm deeply enjoying this thread, especially that some fans regret reading the lyrics before listening to SHINE. I must admit that I read all the lyrics before I listened to SHINE but that was only because June was taking a nap and I really wanted to hear it at concert volume. And then it blew out my right Klypch Heresy speaker during Hana so I've been listening to it primarily in the car on the VW Monsoon (turning the bass and midrange down to one quarter)..... Admittedly I couldn't imagine how Joni could possibly wrap her piano, guitar, synth and mouth around these brilliantly blunt lyrics. But what I've always loved most about Joni is her crazy/genius instrumentation and arrangements which immediately captured my soul like a good drug only better! OK. "Money, money, money / money makes the trees come down / it turns mountains into molehills / big money kicks the wide wide around." To me this is the most important thing I've learned in my long life. And stated SO succinctly & beautifully! RE: "Cell phone zombies babel through the shopping malls" HOW TRUE!!! And "Red light runner busy talking on their cell phones" (an exponentially obnoxious problem scientifically linked to the global death of honey bees and bird migration). In 2012, when billions of people living on the global coastline are desperately running for the hills because we western humans are acting more like cancer than supposed saviours, don't tell me Joni didn't warn rya! Honestly I believe she is today's Voice In The Wilderness (even more than Bono and Al Gore). I can't decide whether I love Joni's guitar or piano playing more and have always considered her lyrics a huge bonus that are usually the last thing I fully appreciate. But when I finally am able to sing along to her new stuff ~ which can sometimes take years because of its deceptive simplicity ~ THAT is when I feel the paradise So I apparently am the only person who would want Travelogue if stranded on a desert isle? Oh well. Perhaps when all the polar bears melt and drive us spoiled rotten terrorist oil driven consumers off our little islands, I will be there holding up my only copy of Travelogue. BTW I AM SOOOO EXCITED TO SEE the fiddle & the drum NEXT MONDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! With some help from God ET ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:33:15 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: Does anyone subscribe to Sirius? Meg's Lunch with Joni 10/19 at 1 pm ET Joni Mitchell joins SIRIUS Disorder's Meg Griffin in a rare conversation over lunch in Joni's NYC hotel. Special guest and collaborator, Herbie Hancock is present as well. Joni talks about her new album Shine, struggles with record labels, contributing her photographs and music to a recent ballet and the urgency of environmental concerns. Rebroadcast: Sat., Oct. 20th @ 4 pm ET; Sun., Oct. 21st @ 8 am ET; Mon., Oct. 22nd @ 2 pm ET; Weds., Oct. 24th @ 3 pm ET. http://www.sirius.com/s.gif [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/png which had a name of image001.png] ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2007 #419 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe -------